Shane Kim from MS states We do not need Japan to win

Lol i laughed when i read this. He sounds like a true Lemming. I take it he didnt notice, but Wii is about to take the lead from MS. So he must ask him self how is that so, when he finds the answer he will know he will need japan to win this generation :).

i love it when lemmings down play , but when someone from MS downplay it's priceless :)

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/07/e3-interview--1.html

Wow, silly answer.

Lol i laughed when i read this. He sounds like a true Lemming. I take it he didnt notice, but Wii is about to take the lead from MS. So he must ask him self how is that so, when he finds the answer he will know he will need japan to win this generation :).

i love it when lemmings down play , but when someone from MS downplay it's priceless :)

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/07/e3-interview--1.html

mazdaspeed-rx8

The Wii is still about 3 million off the 360. If you go by VGChartz they're incorrect by about 1.5 million. MS has already confirmed 11.6 million 360's sold by June and VGChartz claims they're only just over 10 mil.

It is possible for a console to win without Japan. The PS2 only sold around 20% of it's sales total in all Asian countries including Japan. With more than 50% being in the US and around 30% European sales. I don't see 360 winning in sales unless it drops down in price. Wii is a cheap console it should outsell 360 and marketed towards casuals.rexoverbey

The PS2 is a living legend... There really is no need to compare it to other current consoles.

If you want to play that game, though, I give you this: The PS2 didn't sell 120M (or whatever) in its first day. The Japanese market, while buying PS2s, expanded the market and thus helped get third-party support, hence more games, hence western sales. So even when you want to go around deleting Japan's share, it's not really possible. Also note the MASSIVE amount of J games that got acknowledged in the west, and I promise to you there wouldn't be any J games without a J market.

Okay sorry guys, half of you didn't even read the link, including me.

I still am a believer in our ability to do well in Japan. We're not going to win in Japan. We know that. That was never our goal, this generation, to win in Japan. We can win this generation without winning Japan. But we can do well in Japan. Now that's going to take a long time.

Doesn't sound that retarded anymore, does it?

GS: Please stop eating my posts.

[QUOTE="rexoverbey"]It is possible for a console to win without Japan. The PS2 only sold around 20% of it's sales total in all Asian countries including Japan. With more than 50% being in the US and around 30% European sales. I don't see 360 winning in sales unless it drops down in price. Wii is a cheap console it should outsell 360 and marketed towards casuals.Xolver

The PS2 is a living legend... There really is no need to compare it to other current consoles.

If you want to play that game, though, I give you this: The PS2 didn't sell 120M (or whatever) in its first day. The Japanese market, while buying PS2s, expanded the market and thus helped get third-party support, hence more games, hence western sales. So even when you want to go around deleting Japan's share, it's not really possible. Also note the MASSIVE amount of J games that got acknowledged in the west, and I promise to you there wouldn't be any J games without a J market.

Dude, you're so ignorant it's not funny.

There are games you probably haven't even heard of that exist in Japan. It's like a totally different system of games for them over there.

You don't ever get to see a city attacked by a giant bikini clad woman in NA, do you? Apparently it's popular over there.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LMAO!

OMG, more ownage for the Lemmings.

It was a retarded answer.

FrozenLiquid

I agree it was a retarded answer. It sounded like he was in denial

But tell me, what did you think when Sony themselves said "We're still dominating in the industry"?

I am curious as to a link to the exact quote to make sure you are quoting it accuratly but most likly they are talking about their PS2 fanbase which they still have and the PS2 which is still outselling almost all the next gen consoles on a monthly basis. They are probably very confident that by the time they decide to discontinue the PS2 they will have been able to transition their previous fanbase to the PS3. They are also probably talking about the market share they have with the PSPs sales, the PS2s sales and the PS3s sales. Again both are right reasons to say we are still dominating the industry.

But for MS to say they dont need Japan to win only after they they said they need Japan to win and failed is pretty weak damage control and puts them in a simliar position that the Xbox was in where most of its sales depended on the NA market.

who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?kcm_117

lol exactly

[QUOTE="kcm_117"]who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?wildwild

lol exactly

lol i mean come on...i might as well say....ZOMGAWD!!! 360 flopped so hard in Etheopia and Zimbabwe....really, who cares? does it matter? If you guys care so much about japan, move there and go and talk on some japanese gaming forum.

lol exactlywildwild

Anyways, history goes against what he's saying. Otherwise, MS will have to sell amazingly in the US and Europe for something like that to happen.

Okay sorry guys, half of you didn't even read the link, including me.

I still am a believer in our ability to do well in Japan. We're not going to win in Japan. We know that. That was never our goal, this generation, to win in Japan. We can win this generation without winning Japan. But we can do well in Japan. Now that's going to take a long time.

FrozenLiquid

Doesn't sound that retarded anymore, does it?

He still believes he can win without Japan. He leaves the option open saying, "we can do well in Japan." But over all he justifies their failure in Japan by saying, we wont win in Japan, but we dont need them to win. Its the same thing.

The truth is MS's sales are still dependant largly in NA and to a much smaller extent Europe. Thats not a recipe for victory, especially when its competition sells consistently in all three regions.

It is possible for a console to win without Japan. The PS2 only sold around 20% of it's sales total in all Asian countries including Japan. With more than 50% being in the US and around 30% European sales. I don't see 360 winning in sales unless it drops down in price. Wii is a cheap console it should outsell 360 and marketed towards casuals.rexoverbey

Japan has about 128 million people only while NA has 330 million and europe has about 700 million. So I would say that percentage wise,%20 of total salesis actually pretty damn good considering the population size.Plus with the sheer number of asian game companies, success in that market means that console is going to get much more developer support overall...which in turn means more games and potentially moreworld wide sales.

Up to this point people have continuously had coincidental "theories" such as the 3rd console curse, or how no console launching late has ever won. But the fact is no console ever has failed in Japan but still "won." Take that how you will.

MS needs Japan. The NA market is much too fickle and is still dominated by casual gamers who will move on to the next cool entertainment fad in a second.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LMAO!

OMG, more ownage for the Lemmings.

It was a retarded answer.

Javy03

I agree it was a retarded answer. It sounded like he was in denial

But tell me, what did you think when Sony themselves said "We're still dominating in the industry"?

I am curious as to a link to the exact quote to make sure you are quoting it accuratly but most likly they are talking about their PS2 fanbase which they still have and the PS2 which is still outselling almost all the next gen consoles on a monthly basis. They are probably very confident that by the time they decide to discontinue the PS2 they will have been able to transition their previous fanbase to the PS3. They are also probably talking about the market share they have with the PSPs sales, the PS2s sales and the PS3s sales. Again both are right reasons to say we are still dominating the industry.

But for MS to say they dont need Japan to win only after they they said they need Japan to win and failed is pretty weak damage control and puts them in a simliar position that the Xbox was in where most of its sales depended on the NA market.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/09/jack-tretton-the-ps3-is-still-dominant/

Yeah, the PS3 is still dominant? Major denial there.

Also, Shane Kim said they don't need to be the dominant console in Japan. They merely wanted to do well. That was always their goal. Winning in Japan is not the same as "winning over" Japan.

who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?kcm_117

thats a good point, we really care about what happens there?

[QUOTE="Xolver"]

GS: Please stop eating my posts.

[QUOTE="rexoverbey"]It is possible for a console to win without Japan. The PS2 only sold around 20% of it's sales total in all Asian countries including Japan. With more than 50% being in the US and around 30% European sales. I don't see 360 winning in sales unless it drops down in price. Wii is a cheap console it should outsell 360 and marketed towards casuals.FrozenLiquid

The PS2 is a living legend... There really is no need to compare it to other current consoles.

If you want to play that game, though, I give you this: The PS2 didn't sell 120M (or whatever) in its first day. The Japanese market, while buying PS2s, expanded the market and thus helped get third-party support, hence more games, hence western sales. So even when you want to go around deleting Japan's share, it's not really possible. Also note the MASSIVE amount of J games that got acknowledged in the west, and I promise to you there wouldn't be any J games without a J market.

Dude, you're so ignorant it's not funny.

There are games you probably haven't even heard of that exist in Japan. It's like a totally different system of games for them over there.

You don't ever get to see a city attacked by a giant bikini clad woman in NA, do you? Apparently it's popular over there.

Yes but some games do get popular enough in Japan that devs decided to reach out to the rest of the world. A good example is Elite Beat Agent which was called something else in Japan, had two editions and sold very well so they made the american Elite Beat Agent for the rest of the world. Japans does have its own market just like we do, but just like how some of our really popular games get translated for them, some of their really popular games get translated for us. Without a Japanese fanbase, you will miss out on this entire industry.

remember when MS said HDMI is not needed, and Blu-ray is not needed?

and now they are saying japanese market is not needed.

whats next? bread is not needed? :lol:

who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?kcm_117

Arguably, yes it does. Capcom, Square/enix, Konami, etc, are Asian companies who typically focus primarily on the console that are biggest in Asian territories. In fact, there are much more game companies in Asia than in NA I would bet AND those companies are much more prone to pump out many more games.

Sure, many of the crazier games by smaller companies never see light outside Japan. But the fact remains, success in Japan means support from some of the biggest and best known development companies which brings more attention to that console all across the world.

Just think about the massive library the PS2 has. It literally is the biggest game library for any console ever made. That attracts gamers. While the 360 has a very strong library for the average NA gamer, it is not even close to the diversity of the PS2 library...forget about size.

So how a console sells on the other side of the world certainly does affect American?Euro gamers. If you don't believe it, just think of where the PS1 and PS2 would be if you took away most of the big name Japanese titles like RE, Silent Hill, MGS, FF, most of the massive library of RPGs, etc.

The truth is MS's sales are still dependant largly in NA and to a much smaller extent Europe. Thats not a recipe for victory, especially when its competition sells consistently in all three regions.Javy03

If by competition you mean Nintendo, then you're right.

PS: He's still right. You don't need Japan to win the war.

But the fact remains, success in Japan means support from some of the biggest and best known development companies which brings more attention to that console all across the world.

ZIMdoom

Can you name those companies for me ?

[QUOTE="wildwild"]

[QUOTE="kcm_117"]who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?kcm_117

lol exactly

lol i mean come on...i might as well say....ZOMGAWD!!! 360 flopped so hard in Etheopia and Zimbabwe....really, who cares? does it matter? If you guys care so much about japan, move there and go and talk on some japanese gaming forum.

Japanese make games, alot of them. Etheopia doesnt. Without a japanese fanbase many devs will chose to make games on consoles with a better fanbase in Japan meaning MS can be left out of more games. Thats why it matters. Alot of devs live and make games for Japan.

You also have to think of devs in other regions who want to make money off this entire region. A dev who wants to make money knows that if they make the game exclusive to the 360, they will not make any significant sales in the entire region of Japan. If they think their game appeals to that audienceas welland wants to make money off of Japan they will make the game multiplat or could even possibly make it exclusive to the PS3. These are all possibilities of the lack of an entire region of gamers who by the way bought 20 million PS2s. How many did Etheopia buy??

Okay sorry guys, half of you didn't even read the link, including me.

I still am a believer in our ability to do well in Japan. We're not going to win in Japan. We know that. That was never our goal, this generation, to win in Japan. We can win this generation without winning Japan. But we can do well in Japan. Now that's going to take a long time.

FrozenLiquid

Doesn't sound that retarded anymore, does it?

Read it again,he is in fact saying they don't need Japan to win. I've bolded it for you.

Has any console in history EVER notwon in Japan and still gone on to win the generation? Not to my memory has it ever happened.

He still believes he can win without Japan. He leaves the option open saying, "we can do well in Japan." But over all he justifies their failure in Japan by saying, we wont win in Japan, but we dont need them to win. Its the same thing.

The truth is MS's sales are still dependant largly in NA and to a much smaller extent Europe. Thats not a recipe for victory, especially when its competition sells consistently in all three regions.

Javy03

He never said without Japan. Don't try and twist his words. They know fully well, he knows fully well they need a foothold in Japan no matter what.

And it is true, you don't need Japan to win. Considering the movement in video games, this is likely to be true. With video games becoming an art form like movies had become in the past, it is going to be accepted in all cultures. It's not for the hardcore anymore. Read what Denis Dyack has had to say about it.

You also forgot Australia. Australia is pretty big.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Okay sorry guys, half of you didn't even read the link, including me.

I still am a believer in our ability to do well in Japan. We're not going to win in Japan. We know that. That was never our goal, this generation, to win in Japan. We can win this generation without winning Japan. But we can do well in Japan. Now that's going to take a long time.

ZIMdoom

Doesn't sound that retarded anymore, does it?

Read it again,he is in fact saying they don't need Japan to win. I've bolded it for you.

Has any console in history EVER notwon in Japan and still gone on to win the generation? Not to my memory has it ever happened.

Read your own bold -- without winning in Japan.

They don't have to come first in Japan to win. Jeez, I can't believe any of you thought that was Microsoft's intentions in the first place.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LMAO!

OMG, more ownage for the Lemmings.

It was a retarded answer.

FrozenLiquid

I agree it was a retarded answer. It sounded like he was in denial

But tell me, what did you think when Sony themselves said "We're still dominating in the industry"?

It's really not as bad compared to what Shane said.

They made a very opposite statement before hence pure self-ownage.

Read it again,he is in fact saying they don't need Japan to win.

ZIMdoom

You need to read it again.

"We can win this generation without winning Japan"

[QUOTE="wildwild"]

[QUOTE="kcm_117"]who the hell cares about japan, do any of you actually live there? why does it matter how a console sells in some country on the other side of the world, does it affect us American/Euro Gamers?kcm_117

lol exactly

lol i mean come on...i might as well say....ZOMGAWD!!! 360 flopped so hard in Etheopia and Zimbabwe....really, who cares? does it matter? If you guys care so much about japan, move there and go and talk on some japanese gaming forum.

What?

Do you own a foreign car? How about a foreign TV? Appliances? In fact, look at almost any product you own and check the "made in" label. Gee...if you love China so much then why don't you move there or talk on some chinese forum.

Your comment is so ignorant that reading it makes me want to weep for humanity.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LMAO!

OMG, more ownage for the Lemmings.

It was a retarded answer.

XenogearsMaster

I agree it was a retarded answer. It sounded like he was in denial

But tell me, what did you think when Sony themselves said "We're still dominating in the industry"?

It's really not as bad compared to what Shane said.

They made a very opposite statement before hence pure self-ownage.

Your denial is seriously just as bad as Jack Tretton's.

When you have PS3 in third place currently, no matter how you're looking at it, and you say "The PS3 is still dominating".

Granted, it could change in the future, but to say it based on past events was just plain stupid :lol:

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

LMAO!

OMG, more ownage for the Lemmings.

It was a retarded answer.

FrozenLiquid

I agree it was a retarded answer. It sounded like he was in denial

But tell me, what did you think when Sony themselves said "We're still dominating in the industry"?

I am curious as to a link to the exact quote to make sure you are quoting it accuratly but most likly they are talking about their PS2 fanbase which they still have and the PS2 which is still outselling almost all the next gen consoles on a monthly basis. They are probably very confident that by the time they decide to discontinue the PS2 they will have been able to transition their previous fanbase to the PS3. They are also probably talking about the market share they have with the PSPs sales, the PS2s sales and the PS3s sales. Again both are right reasons to say we are still dominating the industry.

But for MS to say they dont need Japan to win only after they they said they need Japan to win and failed is pretty weak damage control and puts them in a simliar position that the Xbox was in where most of its sales depended on the NA market.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/09/jack-tretton-the-ps3-is-still-dominant/

Yeah, the PS3 is still dominant? Major denial there.

Also, Shane Kim said they don't need to be the dominant console in Japan. They merely wanted to do well. That was always their goal. Winning in Japan is not the same as "winning over" Japan.

He also went on to say they don't need Japan to win. Thats a bold comment to make, but I guess what else are you gonna say when the situation looks very hopless.

He also went on to say they don't need Japan to win. Thats a bold comment to make, but I guess what else are you gonna say when the situation looks very hopless.

Javy03

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

Read it again,he is in fact saying they don't need Japan to win.

Forza_2

You need to read it again.

"We can win this generation without winning Japan"

Look, we can argue syntax and the definition of "need" all day long. The point is that no console has ever came in last in japan and still won world wide.

He also went on to say they don't need Japan to win. Thats a bold comment to make, but I guess what else are you gonna say when the situation looks very hopless.

Javy03

Do not twist his words. Look, you may fool the majority of SW forumites here, but you're not fooling me.

And looking at the way you replied to my post there, you're not very confident and decided to slide the argument in your favour (i.e disregarding Jack Tretton's statement).

Highlight to me where he exactly said "We don't need Japan to win". In his own words, not your paraphrased, twisted version.

Okay sorry guys, half of you didn't even read the link, including me.

I still am a believer in our ability to do well in Japan. We're not going to win in Japan. We know that. That was never our goal, this generation, to win in Japan. We can win this generation without winning Japan. But we can do well in Japan. Now that's going to take a long time.

FrozenLiquid

Doesn't sound that retarded anymore, does it?

You have to remember where you are at. Reading a full paragraph or even sentence in SW that would lead to actual logic is forbidden.

Look, we can argue syntax and the definition of "need" all day long. The point is that no console has ever came in last in japan and still won world wide. ZIMdoom

Dear god... that's not even the point. Do you see the underlined word right there ? That's what he meant.

[QUOTE="Xolver"]

GS: Please stop eating my posts.

[QUOTE="rexoverbey"]It is possible for a console to win without Japan. The PS2 only sold around 20% of it's sales total in all Asian countries including Japan. With more than 50% being in the US and around 30% European sales. I don't see 360 winning in sales unless it drops down in price. Wii is a cheap console it should outsell 360 and marketed towards casuals.FrozenLiquid

The PS2 is a living legend... There really is no need to compare it to other current consoles.

If you want to play that game, though, I give you this: The PS2 didn't sell 120M (or whatever) in its first day. The Japanese market, while buying PS2s, expanded the market and thus helped get third-party support, hence more games, hence western sales. So even when you want to go around deleting Japan's share, it's not really possible. Also note the MASSIVE amount of J games that got acknowledged in the west, and I promise to you there wouldn't be any J games without a J market.

Dude, you're so ignorant it's not funny.

There are games you probably haven't even heard of that exist in Japan. It's like a totally different system of games for them over there.

You don't ever get to see a city attacked by a giant bikini clad woman in NA, do you? Apparently it's popular over there.

...So, you read my post wrong or just decided to quote someone random and tell them how they don't understand Japan's market...?

[QUOTE="Forza_2"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

Read it again,he is in fact saying they don't need Japan to win.

ZIMdoom

You need to read it again.

"We can win this generation without winning Japan"

Look, we can argue syntax and the definition of "need" all day long. The point is that no console has ever came in last in japan and still won world wide.

Ok, so not winning automatically means coming last? How about second? Is second not a viable option?

And your argument was, Shane Kim said a ridiculous comment. Not whether or not Microsoft can win without Japan. Don't switch arguments.

...So, you read my post wrong or just decided to quote someone random and tell them how they don't understand Japan's market...?Xolver

No, your logic is wrong.

Japanese market bought PS2s, expanded the market. -- Good.

Got more Japanese third party support -- Good.

More games? -- As I said, more Japanese-centric games.

More western sales? -- Wrong.

Why would there be more western sales if the tastes and games in Japan largely differ from NA?

[QUOTE="Javy03"]The truth is MS's sales are still dependant largly in NA and to a much smaller extent Europe. Thats not a recipe for victory, especially when its competition sells consistently in all three regions.Forza_2

If by competition you mean Nintendo, then you're right.

PS: He's still right. You don't need Japan to win the war.

If you can dominate the competition in oneof the biggestregion for the entire War. The 360 is not dominating anybody in NA. Last month(NPD figures)at most in sold around 60k more then the PS3 but when factor in Japan the 60k lead dissapeared to 30k. Thats not a formula for domination and victory. Especially when one system currently has nothing but a couple ports,200 dollars more,multiplats and two new IPs as its handful of games while the 360 has a years worth of more games and its biggest hit since Halo (GEOW). Look at how the tables are quickly turning sales wise as the PS3 dropped its price, its still more expensive then the 360 but now its in reach of many PS2 owners who were waiting for justification for a purchase.

[QUOTE="Javy03"]

He also went on to say they don't need Japan to win. Thats a bold comment to make, but I guess what else are you gonna say when the situation looks very hopless.

FrozenLiquid

Do not twist his words. Look, you may fool the majority of SW forumites here, but you're not fooling me.

And looking at the way you replied to my post there, you're not very confident and decided to slide the argument in your favour (i.e disregarding Jack Tretton's statement).

Highlight to me where he exactly said "We don't need Japan to win". In his own words, not your paraphrased, twisted version.

Your paraphrasing and twisting as much as anybody. You are assuming that "not needing" Japan means they don't need to release their console their at all. Nobody is making that interpretation the way you seem to be claiming they are.

The debate is over whether or not MS needs Japan to push them over the top and win the generation. MS says no and so do many fans...personally, I believe they do NEED to win Japan to win the generation simply based on the fact that no console has ever won the generation without Japan.

So in that respect I believe very strongly that he does need Japan to win and that by saying that he doesn't need to WIN Japan is that same thing as saying they don't "need Japan" as stated in the thread.

Frankly, I think the lemmings can't win this debate logically so they are trying to frame the arguement based on their own definition of "need". That way it's easier for them to win the arguement if they can just ignore anyone who doesn't follow their own made up rules.