Should more WRPGs have enemies and NPC's that level up with you?

Oblivion did this and it's had mixed reaction based on pro and con.

Pro: Ensures that there's no lack of challenge.

Con: Makes you feel helpless or lacking for a main character in dealing with even the townsfolk.

What are your thoughts?

what does this have to do with system wars??Jamani

their is no sence of accomplishment.

When you level up you wanna look back on what you did and smash those little level 1 rats that gave you trouble. In oblivion their is none it keeps the challenge up but its not good for any type of RPG if you ask me.

NO!

1. chalenge in TRUE rpg is not in griding

2.if i want griding chalenge than i will go to higher lvl monsters

3. i like to kill low lvl monsters and enjoy my powers

4. i dont like being handed my ass over by some wolf while i have epic gear

5. game will get repetitive

No, I hate level scaling. It's just another idea that sounds great on paper but crappy in practice.

Level scaling, whether enemies or equipment, is one of the factors that ruined Oblivion.

Of course it reduces the developers workload by not having to hand place enemies by level. So just like the bland, buggy, floating object, misaligned texture environments created by map generation; it is going to be shoved down all our throats whether we like it or not.

Enemies should NEVER level up with you. If they do, you can beat the game with a level 1 character (like I did with Oblivion) and there is no sense of accomplishment at all.HenriH-42

First off, you didn't beat Oblivion with a level 1 character unless you did the paintbrush glitch, in which case that doesn't count since it has nothing to do with leveling.

Secondly, both KOTORs and Mass Effect have leveled enemies, yet nobody complains about them.

Thirdly, the real disadvantage to Oblivion was leveled items. Leveled enemies don't really matter because any sane individual would stick to fighting enemies they can handle anyways, (i.e. around their level) so in an open game like Oblivion it makes more sense to have enemies generally be around the same level as your character.

The leveled items, however, are what limit the possibilities of exploring and hunting for treasure, because when all the loot you can get is related to what level you are, then there is no "treasure" to be had.

Level scaling demolishes any sense of accomplishment that you have garnered from spending days powering up a character to still have to swing more than once to kill a orc you met at the start of the game.

It's so satisfying when you get your ass handed to you by something stronger than you, you can go back when your stronger and demolish it and say "TAKE THAT!" but with level scaling that same monster will be waiting when you come back and he is still just as strong while in fact if you didn't level up the right way it can sometimes make him stronger than he used to be in comparison.

[QUOTE="HenriH-42"]Enemies should NEVER level up with you. If they do, you can beat the game with a level 1 character (like I did with Oblivion) and there is no sense of accomplishment at all.t3hTwinky

First off, you didn't beat Oblivion with a level 1 character unless you did the paintbrush glitch, in which case that doesn't count since it has nothing to do with leveling.

Secondly, both KOTORs and Mass Effect have leveled enemies, yet nobody complains about them.

Thirdly, the real disadvantage to Oblivion was leveled items. Leveled enemies don't really matter because any sane individual would stick to fighting enemies they can handle anyways, (i.e. around their level) so in an open game like Oblivion it makes more sense to have enemies generally be around the same level as your character.

The leveled items, however, are what limit the possibilities of exploring and hunting for treasure, because when all the loot you can get is related to what level you are, then there is no "treasure" to be had.

KOTOR's enemys did not level with you. I don't know about Mass Effect but Kotor for sure did not have that.

and I presonally think you have not played that many good RPG's.

I wont buy fallout 3 the next elder scrolls game or any game with enemy scaling it in. I bought oblivion and the scaling pretty much ruined the game for mePerrybutt

There're always mods that fix that. You should download Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, it tosses the level scaling away.

No.

Never.

When I played the 360 version of Oblivion I ticked the Dificulty level from 1 at lvl 1 to eventually about lvl 60 dificulty when i was lvl 30-40 or so. and I never had a problem killing villagers, or monsters or bandits or any thing, I made sure to lvl my stats right, and my characters abbilities get good weapons and play a well rounded game and i never had a problem killing any thing in the game oh here and there a few monsters and the only other problem i had was when i had to do escort missions or missions with other characters which seemed to stay at a lvl below me very very much so and they'd go forward and die quickly which i fixed by killing every thing before hand in caves or stoping the character with a spell and then finishing the monsters before he came out of it.

I liked that the monsters and every thing around me lvl'd with me. as for that if you set the dificulty really low then you have no real problem.

P.S: you guys really must not be good at games if you got owned by any monster in oblivion they were easy if you knew how to play.

The best way to utilize level progression is rather than having enemies that level with you, sort out enemies of varying levels by regions of the game world. So the player should only be able to survive some regions when he is strong enough to tackle it's particular denizens. It creates the mechanic for how he progresses through the world.

And for still enabling open ended gameplay, you can have multple regions of enemies lvl 1-5, multiple regions of enemies lvl 6-10, and so on. So he can still choose multple paths of some areas of the world, while finding out through dying, that others he must strengthen himself before fully engaging them.

P.S: you guys really must not be good at games if you got owned by any monster in oblivion they were easy if you knew how to play.

WilliamRLBaker

The problem isn't that the enemies were difficult, it was that you could kill ANY enemy in THE ENTIRE WORLD at LEVEL 1.

KOTOR's enemys did not level with you.

JangoWuzHere

Yes they did. It wasn't as bad as Oblivion, but it was there.

I don't know about Mass Effect but Kotor for sure did not have that.

JangoWuzHere

Ever wonder why it was impossible to find end game gear/enemies earlier than the end of the game? Or why some enemies would give 500 XP in one instance then 300 XP in another?

and I presonally think you have not played that many good RPG's.

JangoWuzHere

You're as wrong as you are presumptuous, unless you think Daggerfall, Morrowind, Fallout, Diablo, WoW, KOTOR, Mass Effect, The Witcher, etc were all garbage. :roll:

Pro: Ensures that there's no lack of challenge.

>nervmeister

Absolutely not. In Oblivion it sucked, not just because of the ruined leveling and difficulty everyone else mentioned, but because the armor you achieved after long hours put into your character is suddenly being worn by lowlife worthless bandits. All the great sense of accomplishment you get from wearing the heavy stuff immediately vanishes when you realise you aren't really moving up in the world.