Should Sales be used in arguments about quality?

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callmewaffle

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#1 callmewaffle
Member since 2007 • 905 Posts

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage.  Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

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axt113

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#2 axt113
Member since 2007 • 2777 Posts

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage.  Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

callmewaffle
Sales lead to dev support, dev support leads to games, you notice how Wii is getting a lot more support and exclusives now that its sales have almost caught up to the 360
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callmewaffle

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#3 callmewaffle
Member since 2007 • 905 Posts
[QUOTE="callmewaffle"]

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage.  Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

axt113

Sales lead to dev support, dev support leads to games, you notice how Wii is getting a lot more support and exclusives now that its sales have almost caught up to the 360

I'm talking about quality not quantity.  Quantity is irrelevant when discussing stuff like exclusives and promising titles, its brought up WAY too often in threads not concerning sales.

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CB4McGusto

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#4 CB4McGusto
Member since 2007 • 2644 Posts
When it's the only defense for a console with no quality games, or hardware then I guess yes. 
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OfficialJab

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#5 OfficialJab
Member since 2005 • 3249 Posts
Because it's a sales contest here, that's the idea. The company that sells the most wins. Quality is in the hand of the gamer.
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Ontain

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#6 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
[QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="callmewaffle"]

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage. Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

callmewaffle

Sales lead to dev support, dev support leads to games, you notice how Wii is getting a lot more support and exclusives now that its sales have almost caught up to the 360

I'm talking about quality not quantity. Quantity is irrelevant when discussing stuff like exclusives and promising titles, its brought up WAY too often in threads not concerning sales.

more dev support leads to more games and also more quality games. just look at the ps2.
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Hoffgod

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#7 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
You win the generations System War by selling the most systems, so sales are very relevant in System Wars.
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axt113

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#8 axt113
Member since 2007 • 2777 Posts
[QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="callmewaffle"]

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage.  Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

callmewaffle

Sales lead to dev support, dev support leads to games, you notice how Wii is getting a lot more support and exclusives now that its sales have almost caught up to the 360

I'm talking about quality not quantity.  Quantity is irrelevant when discussing stuff like exclusives and promising titles, its brought up WAY too often in threads not concerning sales.

The more games you have the more qualtiy games you'll have, even on the PS2 where 80-90% of the games were junk, that other 10% was awesome
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DisturbedOne178

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#9 DisturbedOne178
Member since 2007 • 62 Posts
No, look at the ipod its sold millions and the hardware is crap, the sound quality is horrible, look at the Ps1, its also crap but 120mil, were sold consumers are morons, they'll buy anything
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Javy03

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#10 Javy03
Member since 2006 • 6886 Posts

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage.  Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

callmewaffle
Here is the problem, Sales is concrete and measurable but quality and "good" games are nothing more then opinion. Sales is important in arguements about gaming because sales is important to the gaming devs and console creators. The thing people need to realize is that sales is just one part of the equations. For instance the GBA sold the most of any gaming machine but that didnt stop games from coming to the PS2. Its because the GBA has hardware restrictions and a completly different audience its appealing to. You have to look at how much a console sells, who it sells to and where it is selling. Its not so cut and dry but yes sales is a huge part of the gaming industry and arguements, just not the only part.
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#11 darrowby88
Member since 2005 • 861 Posts

I see countless threads where people completely disregard one another and simply cite sales as ownage. Is this a legitimate way to argue? I think not.

Your opinions

callmewaffle
wel last gen, cows 'owned' everyone else when they sold 100,000,000 units. however, their hardware and online was grossly inferior to the xbox
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#12 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts
Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.
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Ontain

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#13 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.musicalmac
yes i agree that the reasons are important but so is the result and effects of the result. reasons being price, availability, timing, advertising, games, press, mass appeal. but i don't think we can really tell much about them since they are all subjective. but we can see the sum of all these in sales figures.
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ramey70

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#14 ramey70
Member since 2006 • 4002 Posts
If sales determine what's the best then a Ford Mustang is better than a Ferreri and NSync is better than Jimmy Hendrix.
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#15 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts
If sales determine what's the best then a Ford Mustang is better than a Ferreri and NSync is better than Jimmy Hendrix.ramey70
Watch out, I tried an analogy like this and people jumped all over it!
[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.Ontain
yes i agree that the reasons are important but so is the result and effects of the result. reasons being price, availability, timing, advertising, games, press, mass appeal. but i don't think we can really tell much about them since they are all subjective. but we can see the sum of all these in sales figures.

I agree, mostly. Timing, console availability, games (availability), marketing, and others are not always subjective. Look at how much was spent on marketing, look at the reactions of the public en mass (not of one person) to the campaigns, look at the history of console releases... These things are based in fact now, and are pretty good at predicting the future.
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Ontain

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#16 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.Ontain
yes i agree that the reasons are important but so is the result and effects of the result. reasons being price, availability, timing, advertising, games, press, mass appeal. but i don't think we can really tell much about them since they are all subjective. but we can see the sum of all these in sales figures.

I agree, mostly. Timing, console availability, games (availability), marketing, and others are not always subjective. Look at how much was spent on marketing, look at the reactions of the public en mass (not of one person) to the campaigns, look at the history of console releases... These things are based in fact now, and are pretty good at predicting the future.

How much is spent on marketing doesn't always translate to good sales though. as for the public reaction. I believe they use change in sales as the gauge of how a new marketing campaign did.
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musicalmac

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#17 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts
[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="musicalmac"]Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.Ontain
yes i agree that the reasons are important but so is the result and effects of the result. reasons being price, availability, timing, advertising, games, press, mass appeal. but i don't think we can really tell much about them since they are all subjective. but we can see the sum of all these in sales figures.

I agree, mostly. Timing, console availability, games (availability), marketing, and others are not always subjective. Look at how much was spent on marketing, look at the reactions of the public en mass (not of one person) to the campaigns, look at the history of console releases... These things are based in fact now, and are pretty good at predicting the future.

How much is spent on marketing doesn't always translate to good sales though. as for the public reaction. I believe they use change in sales as the gauge of how a new marketing campaign did.

That is a good point. If that is indeed the case, sales are important to the devs, but we already knew that. Money doesn't always equal superior results, I agree there, too. I mean, look at Vista! (Sorry, personal opinion). Well said.
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#18 arbiter1024
Member since 2007 • 35 Posts

Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.musicalmac

 

Sales are the aggregate of all reasons why a product is better than another one.  The problem with evaluating products on a qualitative level is everyone's evaluation of quality is different.  That is why to scientifically evaluate something, we have to look at the statistics.  Sales are the best statistic for evaluating a product because that indicates the number of people who, for whatever reason, decided that the product was worth playing, so much that they bought it. 

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#19 kage_53
Member since 2006 • 12671 Posts
No. It comes down to the games from each system. That's where the real quality is.
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#20 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.arbiter1024

 

Sales are the aggregate of all reasons why a product is better than another one.  The problem with evaluating products on a qualitative level is everyone's evaluation of quality is different.  That is why to scientifically evaluate something, we have to look at the statistics.  Sales are the best statistic for evaluating a product because that indicates the number of people who, for whatever reason, decided that the product was worth playing, so much that they bought it. 

I never said sales figures were a bad MEASUREMENT of the success of a product. I just feel that using sales figures to prove or disprove the quality of a product is too general, and misses the nuances that make a product great. Don't write off a product because its' sales were bad. Don't go out and grab something because the sales were great! Look at why the sales were what they were. Look down to the real reasons, and you'll find a diamond in the rough, or a Faberge egg with a rotton core.
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#21 TimeToPartyHard
Member since 2004 • 1963 Posts

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Using sales to say one product is better than the other is fallacious. Give reasons WHY it sold as well as it did. Sales is a measurement- not ammunition.arbiter1024

 

Sales are the aggregate of all reasons why a product is better than another one.  The problem with evaluating products on a qualitative level is everyone's evaluation of quality is different.  That is why to scientifically evaluate something, we have to look at the statistics.  Sales are the best statistic for evaluating a product because that indicates the number of people who, for whatever reason, decided that the product was worth playing, so much that they bought it. 

I agree. Since it is the only way to evaluate anything, sales is just going to have to be the measurement of the success of something, as a whole, until someone can think of something better. It demonstrates a higher popularity, a product that is in demand, a desirable blend of traits, but as far as quality, sales mean nothing. But quality isn't the deciding factor here, or anywhere else for that matter. We're a capitalist society, it's all about how many units you move. And in system wars we're not arguing about quality, we're arguing popularity and which system is "better" in our opinions.