So Can We Finally Agree That Kojima S****

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suitmypants

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#1 suitmypants
Member since 2004 • 1015 Posts

Sucks at story telling, Kojima is absolutely the worst. His metaphors, references, and philosophical plots are draining and too far fetched.

To say his stories are for the intellectual is fan base justification in defending his terrible writing skills. I can even bet my life that you "intellectuals" will agree with me on this.

Let's face it. Kojima is a great developer but its one of the worst writers ever. I would even dare say M. Night Shamayayayalana could be better than that trash.

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FragTycoon

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#2 FragTycoon
Member since 2008 • 6430 Posts

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

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0rin

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#3 0rin
Member since 2006 • 7179 Posts
I can't speak for others, but I think if Kojima's name is on a game, it's pretty much a stamp of quality. Kojima is a master of his craft, no matter how you look at it, he has managed the only AAAAE on the PS3. That is saying he's doing something right.
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tagyhag

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#4 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

FragTycoon

Modern one? Half Life 2 or Darkness.

Kojima is pretty overrated when it comes to making stories, but hey if people like them who am I to judge?

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suitmypants

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#5 suitmypants
Member since 2004 • 1015 Posts

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

FragTycoon
Mafia 1. It was unique, unlike any mafia stories or movies. On top of that, there was no nonsensical themes. It's a truly enjoyable experience. Now, Im not saying philosophical themes is a bad thing. I like some FF stories... but even then those plots tend to get over used. But back to my point--- philosophical themes are great, but Kojima just spews out too much themes that people are left laughing at his ridiculousness
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FragTycoon

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#6 FragTycoon
Member since 2008 • 6430 Posts

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

suitmypants

Mafia 1. It was unique, unlike any mafia stories or movies. On top of that, there was no nonsensical themes. It's a truly enjoyable experience. Now, Im not saying philosophical themes is a bad thing. I like some FF stories... but even then those plots tend to get over used. But back to my point--- philosophical themes are great, but Kojima just spews out too much themes that people are left laughing at his ridiculousness

mafia...... :|

OK I'm done here.

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erglesmergle

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#7 erglesmergle
Member since 2009 • 1769 Posts

You must have just finished MGS4 without playing the previous games. I dont know how anyone can say this kind of stuff. His story telling IMO far exceeds what we see in video games and Hollywood movies.

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Jynxzor

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#8 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
"intellectuals" will agree with me on this. M. Night Shamayayayalana could be better than that trash.suitmypants
First, what do you mean by "Intellectuals"? Do you mean people who understand storytelling and its forms? I personally don't see anything wrong with Kojimas writing style, hell it's out there I wont dissagree there...but it's been that way sense the begining with Metal Gear, why is anyone ever suprised? Second...How dare you say M.Night could write better material, when your name become synonomous with the ENTIRE THEATER looking at a trailer with intruigue until your name pops up and then the entire theaters lets out a massive groan...please don't compare M.Night to anyone of any writing calliber. He had some good material in his early days and obviously took a trip to the loony bin afterwards.
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suitmypants

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#9 suitmypants
Member since 2004 • 1015 Posts

[QUOTE="suitmypants"][QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

FragTycoon

Mafia 1. It was unique, unlike any mafia stories or movies. On top of that, there was no nonsensical themes. It's a truly enjoyable experience. Now, Im not saying philosophical themes is a bad thing. I like some FF stories... but even then those plots tend to get over used. But back to my point--- philosophical themes are great, but Kojima just spews out too much themes that people are left laughing at his ridiculousness

mafia...... :|

OK I'm done here.

Cool bro.

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PSdual_wielder

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#10 PSdual_wielder
Member since 2003 • 10646 Posts

You must have just finished MGS4 without playing the previous games. I dont know how anyone can say this kind of stuff. His story telling IMO far exceeds what we see in video games and Hollywood movies.

erglesmergle

Everyone here have all finished MGS4, who are you kidding? :P

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funsohng

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#11 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
No, I think Kojima can write better than M. Night, but that's not saying much at all. And yes, MGS4 was, IMO, disastrous story-wise. But it really can't be blamed on itself, it got messed up because MGS2 just effed the entire universe so much and MGS3 cleverly avoided answering those questions from its predecessor (and rather posed few more). It's rather remarkable that he actually gave it an ending.
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110million

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#12 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="suitmypants"] "intellectuals" will agree with me on this. M. Night Shamayayayalana could be better than that trash.Jynxzor
First, what do you mean by "Intellectuals"? Do you mean people who understand storytelling and its forms? I personally don't see anything wrong with Kojimas writing style, hell it's out there I wont dissagree there...but it's been that way sense the begining with Metal Gear, why is anyone ever suprised? Second...How dare you say M.Night could write better material, when your name become synonomous with the ENTIRE THEATER looking at a trailer with intruigue until your name pops up and then the entire theaters lets out a massive groan...please don't compare M.Night to anyone of any writing calliber. He had some good material in his early days and obviously took a trip to the loony bin afterwards.

Yeah, I remember for that Devil movie, as soon as his name came up, I think the trailer was before Inception, a huge let down groan came out from the whole audiance.
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tommyas

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#13 tommyas
Member since 2007 • 2594 Posts

Sucks at story telling, Kojima is absolutely the worst. His metaphors, references, and philosophical plots are draining and too far fetched.

To say his stories are for the intellectual is fan base justification in defending his terrible writing skills. I can even bet my life that you "intellectuals" will agree with me on this.

Let's face it. Kojima is a great developer but its one of the worst writers ever. I would even dare say M. Night Shamayayayalana could be better than that trash.

suitmypants
I disagree. MGS series is amazing. If you dont like it, fine but that doesnt make it trash.
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Chris_Williams

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#14 Chris_Williams
Member since 2009 • 14882 Posts

metal gear solid 3 was my first kojima directed game that i played and that game blew my mind, it was awesome at the story telling elements best hands down and when oh man don't get me started on mgs 4, my sis who doesn't even play videogames very much like watching me play it because she was drawn to the story and watch me play it all the way to beating it. so i respect your opinion but kojima knows what he is doing and he does it well

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Riverwolf007

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#15 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

meh, interactive storytelling is a tough gig. i may not think much of him either but he's hobbled by his chosen device.

even great game storys are not as good as the vast majority of crap head candy $7.99 paperbacks that are sold at gas stations and hospital gift shops.

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vadicta

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#16 vadicta
Member since 2007 • 4354 Posts

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

FragTycoon



Well, his games are no Sands of Time or Enslaved. But he's good in his own right. Far too long winded, but that didn't stop Tolken :P. I like the story in the MGS games, I wouldn't call them profound, they're more like a sci-fi Japanese soap opera, but if all soap operas had the same amount of violence and humor as Kojima's work, I might watch em :D

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110million

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#17 110million
Member since 2008 • 14910 Posts
[QUOTE="funsohng"]No, I think Kojima can write better than M. Night, but that's not saying much at all. And yes, MGS4 was, IMO, disastrous story-wise. But it really can't be blamed on itself, it got messed up because MGS2 just effed the entire universe so much and MGS3 cleverly avoided answering those questions from its predecessor (and rather posed few more).

Everything was answered in the end though, I don't believe any other game creator has had a plot go on for like 20 years and was able to fill in 99% of plot holes in the end, okay so nano machines solved a few TOO many problems, but there were other points he used too. I think considering the hole he dug himself into, the conclusion to the series with MGS4 was the best any developer could have done when you consider all the other games in the series.
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finalfantasy94

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#18 finalfantasy94
Member since 2004 • 27442 Posts

I enjoyed all his MGS stories. If you dont get it oh well.

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sillaris

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#19 sillaris
Member since 2008 • 1083 Posts

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"]

Please, enlighten us on the games that you believe to have good storytelling.

suitmypants

Mafia 1. It was unique, unlike any mafia stories or movies. On top of that, there was no nonsensical themes. It's a truly enjoyable experience. Now, Im not saying philosophical themes is a bad thing. I like some FF stories... but even then those plots tend to get over used. But back to my point--- philosophical themes are great, but Kojima just spews out too much themes that people are left laughing at his ridiculousness

games like mafia 1 hardly exist sotry telling like that i 10years old. now its all about making games for causals. the newest one would be mass effect 1/2.

kojima is a god at story telling. No game can compare with the great storys of MGS games

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vashkey

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#20 vashkey
Member since 2005 • 33781 Posts

He's definitely not the best, but far from the worst. He was definitely responsible for spear heading a cinematic experience in games and you just can't deny the awesomeness of fourth wall breaking Psycho Mantis. Nothing will ever top that.

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funsohng

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#21 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="funsohng"]No, I think Kojima can write better than M. Night, but that's not saying much at all. And yes, MGS4 was, IMO, disastrous story-wise. But it really can't be blamed on itself, it got messed up because MGS2 just effed the entire universe so much and MGS3 cleverly avoided answering those questions from its predecessor (and rather posed few more).

Everything was answered in the end though, I don't believe any other game creator has had a plot go on for like 20 years and was able to fill in 99% of plot holes in the end, okay so nano machines solved a few TOO many problems, but there were other points he used too. I think considering the hole he dug himself into, the conclusion to the series with MGS4 was the best any developer could have done when you consider all the other games in the series.

I added what you said after editing :) but if you just compare MGS4 with MGS3 in terms of story... It is disastrous.
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deactivated-5b2b34c3a42a1

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#22 deactivated-5b2b34c3a42a1
Member since 2009 • 2436 Posts

I think he's kinda overatted because people seem to love stories just because they don't understand them. He made MGS way too overly complicated, even he can't understand the whole story. But he does make good stories in the MGS games. I don't think he's ever made another game series with a good story.

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suitmypants

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#23 suitmypants
Member since 2004 • 1015 Posts

I can't speak for others, but I think if Kojima's name is on a game, it's pretty much a stamp of quality. Kojima is a master of his craft, no matter how you look at it, he has managed the only AAAAE on the PS3. That is saying he's doing something right.0rin

Noted.

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timmy00

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#25 timmy00
Member since 2006 • 15360 Posts

I never really liked the story in Metal Gear Solid. Kojima is not bad at storytelling but people really overrate him in that department.