So now that the 360 has won the console war, it's time to look to the next gen

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accameron

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#1 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts
The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well.
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goodknight_13

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#2 goodknight_13
Member since 2006 • 585 Posts
STFU, damn what is your problem?
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Halo2_Norad

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#3 Halo2_Norad
Member since 2002 • 3802 Posts
wow, perpare to be flamed in 3...2...1...
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springz300

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#4 springz300
Member since 2004 • 2050 Posts
PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.
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xjet039

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#5 xjet039
Member since 2004 • 3007 Posts

PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

Halo 3

Mass Effect

Blue Dragon

Lost oddysey

Eternal SOnata

Pgr 4

Splinter Cell 5

Too HUman.

you were saying. 

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Bebi_vegeta

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#6 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
I think this gen has just started to show some potential.
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accameron

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#7 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts

PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

 

Sure, but the 360 has officially destroyed the PS3 in sales, which is the primary indicator of success. It's all over for the PS3, no matter what "stats" you can pull out. The war is over- it's time to start looking to the NEXT GENERATION, and speculating on who will win.  

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TecmoGirl

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#8 TecmoGirl
Member since 2007 • 3965 Posts
It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.
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gundamfan80

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#9 gundamfan80
Member since 2005 • 684 Posts

The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

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Bebi_vegeta

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#10 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.accameron

 

Sure, but the 360 has officially destroyed the PS3 in sales, which is the primary indicator of success. It's all over for the PS3, no matter what "stats" you can pull out. The war is over- it's time to start looking to the NEXT GENERATION, and speculating on who will win.

Ain't the Wii leading in sales? 

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accameron

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#11 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts

It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.TecmoGirl

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise. 

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Bebi_vegeta

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#13 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.accameron

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise.

The 360 has 1 years advance to thank it? 

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Halo2_Norad

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#14 Halo2_Norad
Member since 2002 • 3802 Posts

PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

...but not graphics eh? HUZZA!!!

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accameron

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#15 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. gundamfan80

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.  

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Bebi_vegeta

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#16 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.

 

You do know that consoles live is about 5years... so it just started 

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accameron

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#17 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts
[QUOTE="accameron"]

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.Bebi_vegeta

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise.

The 360 has 1 years advance to thank it?

 

Does it really matter? It has sold more. It has won. The war is over. Finished. The 360 >> Ps3. Beaten it soundly, no contest (can you really argue this?). Time to look to the XBOX 720 or whatever it is called.  

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michael098

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#18 michael098
Member since 2006 • 3441 Posts

PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

Please explain to me in  which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?

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springz300

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#19 springz300
Member since 2004 • 2050 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="accameron"]

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.accameron

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise.

The 360 has 1 years advance to thank it?

 

Does it really matter? It has sold more. It has won. The war is over. Finished. The 360 >> Ps3. Beaten it soundly, no contest (can you really argue this?). Time to look to the XBOX 720 or whatever it is called.  


How old are you 12? .. wii will be pulling ahead of 360 by the end of this year. You havent even witnessed the wrath of ps3 yet.
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Bebi_vegeta

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#20 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="accameron"]

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.accameron

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise.

The 360 has 1 years advance to thank it?

 

Does it really matter? It has sold more. It has won. The war is over. Finished. The 360 >> Ps3. Beaten it soundly, no contest (can you really argue this?). Time to look to the XBOX 720 or whatever it is called.

 

LOL... yes nice logic. Why dont you compare the Wii to the 360? 

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KillJeff

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#21 KillJeff
Member since 2007 • 82 Posts

This guy is trolling.

Lock/

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springz300

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#22 springz300
Member since 2004 • 2050 Posts

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.michael098

Please explain to me in  which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this. 
Which console is more powerful?
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PannicAtack

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#23 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="accameron"]

[QUOTE="TecmoGirl"]It's official. Crystal Balls are way to cheap nowadays.accameron

 

What are you talking about? Sales don't lie- the 360 has BEATEN the PS3. The war is over. Time to look to the next generation, this one is about finished, sales wise.

The 360 has 1 years advance to thank it?

 

Does it really matter? It has sold more. It has won. The war is over. Finished. The 360 >> Ps3. Beaten it soundly, no contest (can you really argue this?). Time to look to the XBOX 720 or whatever it is called.  

What happens when the PS3 starts churning out several heavy-hitter titles and drops the price? If that happened, it is not stretch of the imagination to say that the PS3 could overtake the 360. And then there's the Wii, which, at the rate it's selling, looks like it could overtake the 360. >_>

The generation has only started. The 360 has sold more due to its head start. The other consoles could easily catch up. >_>

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Bisset

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#24 Bisset
Member since 2006 • 261 Posts
[QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.  

But the wii is leading the sales figures...

I'm confused

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PannicAtack

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#25 PannicAtack
Member since 2006 • 21040 Posts
[QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

Please explain to me in  which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this. 
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>
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jessie5788

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#26 jessie5788
Member since 2007 • 972 Posts
[QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.

He didn't call you dumb, he called your post dumb. And he wasn't lying.:P 

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gundamfan80

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#27 gundamfan80
Member since 2005 • 684 Posts
[QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.  

the average life span of a console in 5+ years. There are over 120 million gamers in the world and this current gen combined has barely broken 20 million leaving more than 100 million people yet to make the leap to this gen. Its waaaaaaay to soon to start saying things like that. 

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Alunanite

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#28 Alunanite
Member since 2004 • 420 Posts

Thats funny since neither the 360 or the PS3 are anywhere close to in the lead right now in week to week sales.

 

Hell, they might not even be considered next-gen consoles if motion-point controls end up dominating because of the Wii.

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Bebi_vegeta

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#29 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.PannicAtack

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>

 

HUH? name them please! 

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the-very-best

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#30 the-very-best
Member since 2006 • 14486 Posts

I originally thought 360 would come in 2nd behind the PS3 but I'm starting to think Wii may take 2nd spot and 360 end up last, but close behind.

I don't know, way too early to be sure anyway.

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Halo2_Norad

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#31 Halo2_Norad
Member since 2002 • 3802 Posts
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.Bebi_vegeta

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>

 

HUH? name them please!

Tony Hawks Project 8

Call of Duty 3

FEAR

i cant think of anymore right now... maybe the guy who wrote that comment might know. 

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michael098

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#32 michael098
Member since 2006 • 3441 Posts
[QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

I don't really care but you seem to think that the ps3 having more processing power makes it better than the 360, and you think the ps3 has more potential but you cant explain why. I personally thought that games were what mattered most but people dont think so anymore.

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accameron

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#33 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts
[QUOTE="accameron"][QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. jessie5788

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.

He didn't call you dumb, he called your post dumb. And he wasn't lying.:P

 

You had better watch out too. The gamespot mods are my boys, and I really don't like the tone of your post.  

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accameron

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#34 accameron
Member since 2004 • 1521 Posts
Listen to all the haters (and people who say that I am flaming, etc): Please give me evidence that the 360 is being beat by the PS3. Just a bit of info, something, anything that says that the PS3 is ahead of the 360. The thing is, you won't find it, because it isn't there. The 360 has won, there is countless evidence that the 360 has won- it's time now to look to the future consoles.
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Bebi_vegeta

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#35 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.Halo2_Norad

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>

 

HUH? name them please!

Tony Hawks Project 8

Call of Duty 3

FEAR

i cant think of anymore right now... maybe the guy who wrote that comment might know.

FEAR?? It's same thing as PC, but 1 year late. 

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jessie5788

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#36 jessie5788
Member since 2007 • 972 Posts
[QUOTE="jessie5788"][QUOTE="accameron"][QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.

He didn't call you dumb, he called your post dumb. And he wasn't lying.:P

 

You had better watch out too. The gamespot mods are my boys, and I really don't like the tone of your post.

i'm really scared now!!! (runs and hides) 

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Bebi_vegeta

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#37 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

Listen to all the haters (and people who say that I am flaming, etc): Please give me evidence that the 360 is being beat by the PS3. Just a bit of info, something, anything that says that the PS3 is ahead of the 360. The thing is, you won't find it, because it isn't there. The 360 has won, there is countless evidence that the 360 has won- it's time now to look to the future consoles. accameron

Futur consoles? What futur consoles... !!!! Why talk about futur consoles when we know nothing about them!  And more then half of this gen greatest games arent even out yet!

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michael098

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#38 michael098
Member since 2006 • 3441 Posts
[QUOTE="Halo2_Norad"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.Bebi_vegeta

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>

 

HUH? name them please!

Tony Hawks Project 8

Call of Duty 3

FEAR

i cant think of anymore right now... maybe the guy who wrote that comment might know.

FEAR?? It's same thing as PC, but 1 year late.

FEAR looks alot better on 360 then ps3... 

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Bebi_vegeta

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#39 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="Halo2_Norad"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.michael098

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

The 360, seeing as how nine out of ten multiplats have looked better on the 360 >_>

 

HUH? name them please!

Tony Hawks Project 8

Call of Duty 3

FEAR

i cant think of anymore right now... maybe the guy who wrote that comment might know.

FEAR?? It's same thing as PC, but 1 year late.

FEAR looks alot better on 360 then ps3...

 

Yes and oblivion looks better on PS3... 

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springz300

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#40 springz300
Member since 2004 • 2050 Posts
[QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.michael098

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

I don't really care but you seem to think that the ps3 having more processing power makes it better than the 360, and you think the ps3 has more potential but you cant explain why. I personally thought that games were what mattered most but people dont think so anymore.


More "proven exclusives"
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Redfingers

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#41 Redfingers
Member since 2005 • 4510 Posts

The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

Are you insane? Now even though the 360 is outselling the PS3, the Wii is selling, what, 2-3 times as much monthly as the Xbox 360? The console war is over? Let me bring up an example from the recent past:

HD-DVD, being an early arrival, appeared to have a strong base and sold solidly well into its first year. However, after the introduction of the Blu Ray disc format and the release of the Playstation 3, Blu Ray promptly caught up and began to outsell HD-DVD by a margin of 2 and finally 3-1.

Lesson: the first five months of a console war don't mean jack. The PS3 hasn't even begun to strut. Give it time for Home and some of its more ambitious first-party exclusives to release and it will kick up in sales substantially. It's having a rough time right now with some limited software, but things should improve substantially. You can't look at the one-month sales figures and line up the winners of the console wars, mate... 

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BEAN_LARD_MULCH

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#44 BEAN_LARD_MULCH
Member since 2006 • 4720 Posts
[QUOTE="jessie5788"][QUOTE="accameron"][QUOTE="gundamfan80"]

[QUOTE="accameron"]The console war is finally over, with the 360 clearly beating out the PS3. It is not even a contest. It's over. Which will be more powerful, the next XBOX, or the next playstation? WIll there even be another playstation now that the PS3 has fizzled so much? I also foresee great things from the Wii's predecessor as well. accameron

and the winner for dumbest post thus far in system wars goes to........ yes its accameron. this console gen just got rolling come back in 3-4 years and name a winner ok

 

Why come back in 3-4 years? The winner has already been named, and it is the 360. Sales figures do not lie. And please do not call me dumb- I can report you, you know. This is just a warning.

He didn't call you dumb, he called your post dumb. And he wasn't lying.:P

 

You had better watch out too. The gamespot mods are my boys, and I really don't like the tone of your post.


Oh, are they now? So I can report to the Admins that they are abusing their modding powers to make it sound like that everything you say is correct on gamespot?......like seriously man, THINK about what you post first. And the 360 got a year headstart. Obiously there would be more games because the system has been available to the deveoplers for a longer time..... like I mean if you compare when the PS3 hits one  year I can understand.
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SeanDiff

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#46 SeanDiff
Member since 2007 • 933 Posts

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.xjet039

Halo 3

Mass Effect

Blue Dragon

Lost oddysey

Eternal SOnata

Pgr 4

Splinter Cell 5

Too HUman.

you were saying.

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.xjet039

Halo 3

Mass Effect

Blue Dragon

Lost oddysey

Eternal SOnata

Pgr 4

Splinter Cell 5

Too HUman.

you were saying.

MGS4 beats all of those.

Aswell as all the first party games sony as. 

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michael098

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#48 michael098
Member since 2006 • 3441 Posts
[QUOTE="michael098"][QUOTE="springz300"][QUOTE="michael098"]

[QUOTE="springz300"]PS3 is better than 360. In:
Processing power
Potential
Multimedia functions.springz300

Please explain to me in which way it has more potential, and by saying more processing power you mean the ps3 is capable of better graphics? then explain how you know this because people have been fighting about this before the 360 was released so what do you know that the rest of us don't?


answer me this.
Which console is more powerful?

I don't really care but you seem to think that the ps3 having more processing power makes it better than the 360, and you think the ps3 has more potential but you cant explain why. I personally thought that games were what mattered most but people dont think so anymore.


More "proven exclusives"

what? lair, uncharted...?

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FuzionZX

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#49 FuzionZX
Member since 2007 • 121 Posts

Notice how he is saying nothing about the Wii.

 

Lets talk about the Wii, shall we?

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Bebi_vegeta

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#50 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

Notice how he is saying nothing about the Wii.

 

Lets talk about the Wii, shall we?

FuzionZX

Or notice how he isn't replying anymore...Â