So why was blu ray needed again?

I mean the ps3 has a 60 gb hard-drive. And all we ever hear devs saying is "360 doesnt guarentee a HD" They never mention a thing about blu ray being a factor, it's all HD. Im sure blu ray's value will come into play very late in the gen, but it seems that the HD is the most important thing you could include. I mean with a large HD you can basically install games and use it like a computer, and instead of including an expensive blu ray player, just use 1-2 dvd9's and install parts of the game or something along those lines.

Just seems like the HD is way more important than blu ray will ever be 

I mean the ps3 has a 60 gb hard-drive. And all we ever hear devs saying is "360 doesnt guarentee a HD" They never mention a thing about blu ray being a factor, it's all HD. Im sure blu ray's value will come into play very late in the gen, but it seems that the HD is the most important thing you could include. I mean with a large HD you can basically install games and use it like a computer, and instead of including an expensive blu ray player, just use 1-2 dvd9's and install parts of the game or something along those lines.

Just seems like the HD is way more important than blu ray will ever be

rocktimusprime

specially including the fact that a majorty of ps3 titles either use or install games on the hd...

P.S: reports of gta 4 being limited because of dvd? oh you mean the Site that says the next issue of UNITED KINGDOM Playstation magazine says in and interview with Rockstar that rockstar says the DVD is limiting...

Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.the-very-best

they mentioned the constraint was on the fact there wasn't a unified HD. Blu ray isn't that big a deal compared to no HD 

Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.the-very-best

One game having problems does not suggest a whole new (and expensive) format is necessary. For all you know it's sloppy coding.

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.TyrantDragon55

One game having problems does not suggest a whole new (and expensive) format is necessary. For all you know it's sloppy coding.

plus point is with a huge HD, i really don't see why you need a huge disc too. I mean don't get me wrong thats really nice, but take the blu ray out of ps3 and the price dives, and thats with a huge HD standard too! 

Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.the-very-best

Maybe it's an attempt to thwart the pirates. Most PS2 games were DVD5, and you see how that turned out. Now the Playstation 3 and it's games are on Blu-Ray, and BRD drives for the PC are 500-600 dollars, discs are expensive as well...

 

After the discovery of the Hitachi and Samsung DVD hacks for the Xbox 360, and the fact that DVD9 burners are cheap and the media isn't expensive, looks like it's the new Playstation 2 of this generation in terms of users stealing content.

TekkenMaster606

That seems to be the only feasible explanation. 

Maybe it's an attempt to thwart the pirates. Most PS2 games were DVD5, and you see how that turned out. Now the Playstation 3 and it's games are on Blu-Ray, and BRD drives for the PC are 500-600 dollars, discs are expensive as well...

 

After the discovery of the Hitachi and Samsung DVD hacks for the Xbox 360, and the fact that DVD9 burners are cheap and the media isn't expensive, looks like it's the new Playstation 2 of this generation in terms of users stealing content.

TekkenMaster606

i had a thought like that but pirates always win out, plus as years go on and the blu rays go down in price, the more and more people will want to modify them and such. I just think its funny though becasue a huge selling point on PS3 is you get a nice HD included. I mean that's 1 reason I can justify the price to myself, But I can't for blu ray. I understand the potential of blu ray, but when you have huge HD's standard, so what if the games are on DVD9's, PC games are on DVD9's  and unpack onto the HD. I think that's just as good as having a high capacity disc. I mean seriously how many ps3 users are even close to using 20gbs just for games... 

Maybe it's an attempt to thwart the pirates. Most PS2 games were DVD5, and you see how that turned out. Now the Playstation 3 and it's games are on Blu-Ray, and BRD drives for the PC are 500-600 dollars, discs are expensive as well...

 

After the discovery of the Hitachi and Samsung DVD hacks for the Xbox 360, and the fact that DVD9 burners are cheap and the media isn't expensive, looks like it's the new Playstation 2 of this generation in terms of users stealing content.

TekkenMaster606

except the DVD hacks for the 360 are nortoriously hard to use, and if not done Perfectly will trash the drive, and the fact that if DVD was hacked, do you really think blu ray or hd dvd wont be?  

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]

Maybe it's an attempt to thwart the pirates. Most PS2 games were DVD5, and you see how that turned out. Now the Playstation 3 and it's games are on Blu-Ray, and BRD drives for the PC are 500-600 dollars, discs are expensive as well...

 

After the discovery of the Hitachi and Samsung DVD hacks for the Xbox 360, and the fact that DVD9 burners are cheap and the media isn't expensive, looks like it's the new Playstation 2 of this generation in terms of users stealing content.

joeblak

That seems to be the only feasible explanation.

They could have easily made games on DVD9, I'm sure the Blu-Ray drive would play them. But, I do like uncompressed audio in 7.1... 

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.rocktimusprime

they mentioned the constraint was on the fact there wasn't a unified HD. Blu ray isn't that big a deal compared to no HD

Yeah that was part of their complaint too.

I kinda agree with TekkenMaster, it's probably an attempt to stop pirating. If Blu-ray does become successful a lot of movie companies will benefit from it. Obviously so will Sony. 

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

 

InfamousC

resistance a launch game, that had redudent data, used crap compression, Had many CGI cinemas, was 14gb...enough said. 

[QUOTE="the-very-best"]Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="InfamousC"]

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

 

WilliamRLBaker

resistance a launch game, that had redudent data, used crap compression, Had many CGI cinemas, was 14gb...enough said. 

at least the game wasnt limited by dvd9 and gave you the full hd experience. i could care less if they didnt compress less work for them and means i can get the game faster.

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

 

InfamousC

Your missing the point (fanboys always do) why have a nice expensive disc format when you already have a nice HD you can just use to install on. PC's do it, if they were in any danger of not having enough space for games they'd be switching over to blu ray....but.....the point is if they were going to make the HD standard, then they really didnt need a high capacity disc because they could have just used the HD for installing and such. 

Guess I might as well just bring this to everyone's attention now before this thread gets really ugly:

http://gamesfirst.com/?id=1132

Because of 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0sharky_dkb

BINGO! 

Why not though? Frankly I don't see the negative attitude towards it. Yes it costs more and makes the system cost more, that's Sony's fault in their part. However for gaming, why not have the extra space? I mean, is it too much to ask for more? Everyone demands more power, more phsyics, more processing, more of everything, but when it comes to the amount of data storage on a disk, suddenly "more" is not needed? Technology is always about advancing and moving forward, right? Yes we can compress, get better compressions, but what if games begin to get to a point where they can be compressed, and not fit on a DVD 9 for games?

I'm not for or against, but I don't see the hypocrisy against "more" when everything else is demanded "more" of except this...

[QUOTE="InfamousC"]

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

 

rocktimusprime

Your missing the point (fanboys always do) why have a nice expensive disc format when you already have a nice HD you can just use to install on. PC's do it, if they were in any danger of not having enough space for games they'd be switching over to blu ray....but.....the point is if they were going to make the HD standard, then they really didnt need a high capacity disc because they could have just used the HD for installing and such. 

Because of 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0sharky_dkb

you sunk my battle ship! 

[QUOTE="sharky_dkb"]Because of  "edited  line  of  code" rocktimusprime

you sunk my battle ship!

Someone sunk Toshiba's entire fleet! Good luck reeling in Buena Vista, Fox, and Lionsgate now! :lol: 

You people are looking way too deeply into this. The reason BR is included in the PS3 is to boost sales of both PS3 and BR. Ever wonder why Sony is selling BR players at over $1000 when HD-DVD players are selling for around $500? Because the PS3 cost $600, meaning anyone in their right mind is going to buy a PS3 when they buy a BR player. What does that mean? The PS3 is a trojan horse for both BR and games, people who buy it for gaming are going to buy BR movies and people who buy it for BR are going to buy games. Until we start seeing the $300 BR players this is actually a brilliant move by Sony, if not for the pricetag.pundog

I see your point but for me I didn't own a Ps2 or a Blue Ray player so for 600 bucks I got both plus the ability to play Ps3 games and i don't feel like I got ripped in the least...

[QUOTE="pundog"]You people are looking way too deeply into this. The reason BR is included in the PS3 is to boost sales of both PS3 and BR. Ever wonder why Sony is selling BR players at over $1000 when HD-DVD players are selling for around $500? Because the PS3 cost $600, meaning anyone in their right mind is going to buy a PS3 when they buy a BR player. What does that mean? The PS3 is a trojan horse for both BR and games, people who buy it for gaming are going to buy BR movies and people who buy it for BR are going to buy games. Until we start seeing the $300 BR players this is actually a brilliant move by Sony, if not for the pricetag.DanBrim1

I see your point but for me I didn't own a Ps2 or a Blue Ray player so for 600 bucks I got both plus the ability to play Ps3 games and i don't feel like I got ripped in the least...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="the-very-best"]Perhaps, but it's probably not the best time to put in this argument of Blu-ray not being needed after reports of GTAIV being constrained due to DVD-9 yesterday and today.Spartan8907

resistance a launch game was 14gb enough said thread failed.

 

InfamousC

RFOM was ripped and was found to have 17.75GB of artificial padding (IE, Garbage data to make the game fill more of the disc)

Link.

blu-ray wouldn't of been so bad if it's data transfer speed wasn't lower than DVD-9 which pretty much nerfs any advangtage except for HD cut scenes.

I don't really buy the piracy argument because it seems 360 has pretty much kept piracy at a minimum eventhough using an easy to pirate medium.

Most people that pirate on consoles nowadays are going to use hard disc drives, not dvd/blu-ray ect.  This is another aspect where 360 beats out ps3 (at least on anti-piracy) 360 is using their own hdd which is harder (and more expensive) to obtain/transfer data.  The ps3 is letting you use any sata hdd which means you can buy a 250 gig drive and probably store 10 games on there for about $15 a game as long as 2.5 hdd don't drop in price, or somebody doesn't figure out how to get 3.5 discs to work on the ps3.

blu-ray wouldn't of been so bad if it's data transfer speed wasn't lower than DVD-9 which pretty much nerfs any advangtage except for HD cut scenes.

I don't really buy the piracy argument because it seems 360 has pretty much kept piracy at a minimum eventhough using an easy to pirate medium.

Most people that pirate on consoles nowadays are going to use hard disc drives, not dvd/blu-ray ect.  This is another aspect where 360 beats out ps3 (at least on anti-piracy) 360 is using their own hdd which is harder (and more expensive) to obtain/transfer data.  The ps3 is letting you use any sata hdd which means you can buy a 250 gig drive and probably store 10 games on there for about $15 a game as long as 2.5 hdd don't drop in price, or somebody doesn't figure out how to get 3.5 discs to work on the ps3.

jrhawk42

What are you talking about? A standard BD read speed is somewhere around 3 times faster than DVD, the PS3 BD is a 2x drive and reads at around 9MB/s, while the 360's 12x DVD9 reads at around 16MB/s.

EDIT: Not to mention, BD read speeds are consistant, they never change, where with DVD, its a variable speed.

[QUOTE="jrhawk42"]

blu-ray wouldn't of been so bad if it's data transfer speed wasn't lower than DVD-9 which pretty much nerfs any advangtage except for HD cut scenes.

I don't really buy the piracy argument because it seems 360 has pretty much kept piracy at a minimum eventhough using an easy to pirate medium.

Most people that pirate on consoles nowadays are going to use hard disc drives, not dvd/blu-ray ect.  This is another aspect where 360 beats out ps3 (at least on anti-piracy) 360 is using their own hdd which is harder (and more expensive) to obtain/transfer data.  The ps3 is letting you use any sata hdd which means you can buy a 250 gig drive and probably store 10 games on there for about $15 a game as long as 2.5 hdd don't drop in price, or somebody doesn't figure out how to get 3.5 discs to work on the ps3.

Nagidar

What are you talking about? A standard BD read speed is somewhere around 3 times faster than DVD, the PS3 BD is a 2x drive and reads at around 9MB/s, while the 360's 12x DVD9 reads at around 16MB/s.

EDIT: Not to mention, BD read speeds are consistant, they never change, where with DVD, its a variable speed.

Am I missing something here?  U say BD is 3x faster then DVD and yet you continue to say that DVD is 16Mb/s vs BD's 9Mb/s.... were you trying to be sarcastic? 

hmm why would someone who owns a hdtv and a ps3 want a last gen dvd player for their hdtv to watch movies? i guess that is why sony added the blu ray. i mean it is next gen console for the HD era, so why not add a next gen dvd player for viewing movies on y our hdtv. just my opinion.

hmm why would someone who owns a hdtv and a ps3 want a last gen dvd player for their hdtv to watch movies? i guess that is why sony added the blu ray. i mean it is next gen console for the HD era, so why not add a next gen dvd player for viewing movies on y our hdtv. just my opinion.

alfy13

Well they could have just made it able to upscale DVDs into HD like the 360 does. The picture quality might not be`quitw as good but it would be a lot cheaper.

[QUOTE="alfy13"]

hmm why would someone who owns a hdtv and a ps3 want a last gen dvd player for their hdtv to watch movies? i guess that is why sony added the blu ray. i mean it is next gen console for the HD era, so why not add a next gen dvd player for viewing movies on y our hdtv. just my opinion.

TyrantDragon55

Well they could have just made it able to upscale DVDs into HD like the 360 does. The picture quality might not be`quitw as good but it would be a lot cheaper.

[QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"][QUOTE="alfy13"]

hmm why would someone who owns a hdtv and a ps3 want a last gen dvd player for their hdtv to watch movies? i guess that is why sony added the blu ray. i mean it is next gen console for the HD era, so why not add a next gen dvd player for viewing movies on y our hdtv. just my opinion.

alfy13

Well they could have just made it able to upscale DVDs into HD like the 360 does. The picture quality might not be`quitw as good but it would be a lot cheaper.

It's also a lot more expensive. You also have to consider that the vast majority does not have an HDTV, so sure, it's a nice feature for the few people that can take advantage of it. But what about the rest of us? Why should we pay all that extra money for something we can't even take advantage of?