Sony refuses to use the Banhammer

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]

Yes.

[QUOTE="Link"] "While IW works on getting the MW2 glitch fixed, people we catch using it will receive suspensions from LIVE. Play fair everyone."(...) "Using a glitch in a game to get an advantage is explicitly called out in the ToU. It's not like people are doing it by accident."

IronBass

even though a lot of them weren't even modded.Messiahbolical-

Can you prove it?

No, I can't. : (Messiahbolical-

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] First of all, I don't use glitches when playing. I've never needed to and I never will. That doesn't change the fact that I don't care if other people do. Second of all... why don't I care if other people do? Because it's the DEVELOPER'S FAULT and ONLY the developers fault. You can blame the person for exploiting the glitch, but that doesn't change the fact that the glitch shouldn't exist in the first place. The Javelin glitch isn't even a glitch that gives you an advantage either, the people I see doing it are better off just shooting the people they want to kill because most of the time they would've had the chance of only they had their gun out. But does it matter? No. It's the developer's liability to fix these problems. Don't fix the players, fix the game. You've gotta be pretty ignorant if you think these bans are justifiable when IW hasn't even attempted to fix the problem in the first place.Messiahbolical-

But I would leave too, since you seem to have done a bang up job of talking about a few issues you clearly weren't prepared to talk about.

Okay, just a random thought: I play on the PS3 version and I rarely see anyone use the glitch. Only about 1 out of every 15-20 games. Apparently this is a much bigger and more widespread issue on the 360 than the PS3 so maybe that's why I don't see why it's such a big deal. I just want to know exactly how big of an issue this is on the 360 version? I know a lot of you guys play MW2 on the 360 can you give me some info here? Just give an approximate estimate of how many games out of 10 have javelin glitchers in them and how much on a scale of 0-10 do they ruin the game, 0 being not at all and 10 being completely.Messiahbolical-

I think Stepto's warning has had its intended effect: FUDed everyone into not using the glitch.

IW is patching the game. Patches don't magically pop into existence. They take development time, testing, and approval from MS and Sony. I am far from ignorant, since I seem to know that they are patching the glitch, while you seem to think IW is not doing anything about it. They are. MS is. Sony is the only one ignoring it. But I would leave too, since you seem to have done a bang up job of talking about a few issues you clearly weren't prepared to talk about.SpruceCaboose

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]Okay, just a random thought: I play on the PS3 version and I rarely see anyone use the glitch. Only about 1 out of every 15-20 games. Apparently this is a much bigger and more widespread issue on the 360 than the PS3 so maybe that's why I don't see why it's such a big deal. I just want to know exactly how big of an issue this is on the 360 version? I know a lot of you guys play MW2 on the 360 can you give me some info here? Just give an approximate estimate of how many games out of 10 have javelin glitchers in them and how much on a scale of 0-10 do they ruin the game, 0 being not at all and 10 being completely.UnnDunn

I think Stepto's warning has had its intended effect: FUDed everyone into not using the glitch.

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch [CVG]

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"] IW is patching the game. Patches don't magically pop into existence. They take development time, testing, and approval from MS and Sony. I am far from ignorant, since I seem to know that they are patching the glitch, while you seem to think IW is not doing anything about it. They are. MS is. Sony is the only one ignoring it. But I would leave too, since you seem to have done a bang up job of talking about a few issues you clearly weren't prepared to talk about.Messiahbolical-

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

akira2465

Banning people on your online service because a developer was to lazy to beta test it's game and released broken gameplay is silly. I'm with Sony on this one. It's not worth the effort since it's probably a small fix also.

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

SolidTy

Infinity Ward SHOULD have Public Beta Tested it.

IW is responsible to regulate their game, not Sony. It's nice that Xbox wanted to get involved, but ultimately, it wasn't required. This is all on IW and ACTIVISION. EPIC's GeoW has a LOT of exploits, and those don't get fixed, so I don't see why this exploit should be treated differently.

If it's in the game, although it sucks, it's the Devs fault.

Anyways, IW is working on a patch due this week or next, so this is all pointless to talk about anyways...as it will be ancient history.

And THIS IS WHY PUBLIC BETA Testing is good folks.

After working on software releases for 12 years, even public betas won't catch everything. Issues that are found are prioritized to be fixed pre-release, or scheduled for subsequent patches and version releases.

Only when that software or service is released into the wild do we really know if a glitch exists. Even for some known issues, only in the wild do we really find out their reach and severity.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the upcoming patch is a good thing.

The issue that I have a problem with is Sony's response to those that abuse the glitch as it currently exists. Even a PR-driven heart-felt plea to stop cheating would be a clear statement that they do not condone cheating. The spin on the Sony rep's quote makes them seem snotty and possibly incompetent. But hey, that's just me. Of course, the idea that this thread has gone on for how-many-pages leads me to believe I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

Zero_epyon

Banning people on your online service because a developer was to lazy to beta test it's game and released broken gameplay is silly. I'm with Sony on this one. It's not worth the effort since it's probably a small fix also.

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"]

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

SpruceCaboose

Banning people on your online service because a developer was to lazy to beta test it's game and released broken gameplay is silly. I'm with Sony on this one. It's not worth the effort since it's probably a small fix also.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="akira2465"]

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

VoodooHak

Infinity Ward SHOULD have Public Beta Tested it.

IW is responsible to regulate their game, not Sony. It's nice that Xbox wanted to get involved, but ultimately, it wasn't required. This is all on IW and ACTIVISION. EPIC's GeoW has a LOT of exploits, and those don't get fixed, so I don't see why this exploit should be treated differently.

If it's in the game, although it sucks, it's the Devs fault.

Anyways, IW is working on a patch due this week or next, so this is all pointless to talk about anyways...as it will be ancient history.

And THIS IS WHY PUBLIC BETA Testing is good folks.

After working on software releases for 12 years, even public betas won't catch everything. Issues that are found are prioritized to be fixed pre-release, or scheduled for subsequent patches and version releases.

Only when that software or service is released into the wild do we really know if a glitch exists. Even for some known issues, only in the wild do we really find out their reach and severity.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the upcoming patch is a good thing.

The issue that I have a problem with is Sony's response to those that abuse the glitch as it currently exists. Even a PR-driven heart-felt plea to stop cheating would be a clear statement that they do not condone cheating. The spin on the Sony rep's quote makes them seem snotty and possibly incompetent. But hey, that's just me. Of course, the idea that this thread has gone on for how-many-pages leads me to believe I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

Actually, in SW length of thread doesn't prove anything but posters hate __________ (name the console here).

Also, you must know that I realize public beta testing doesn't catch everything. I think we all do. HOWEVER, this glitch was found so early after the game launched, that it's more likely to have been discovered in a Beta Testing environ. We'll never know because it wasn't public betatested.

I won't defend a company that won't beta their games about glitches that come out out so soon after launch. This was too fast. I felt the same way when GeoW2 came out, and it was glitch city. It was so bad, I lost my save and rank. I also see people glitch in that game, and I have to wonder, maybe that isn't the glitch, maybe this stuff is okay, since it's so rampant.

As far as responses, ACTIVISION is a very powerful company, who knows how much they put into this affair at all. Remember, ACTIVISION and Sony aren't the best of buds right now (Sony's CEO calling the ACTI CEO out, ACTI asking for PS3 drop, etc.). Then we see on the flip side, A MW2 360 console bundle, past bundles with ACTI"s MUA, etc. Xbox may feel more reponsible, or have a better rapport with ACTI. Who knows.

This will all be fixed either way.

The reporting system on 360 is a plus for those that want to chat about that, sure. That's what this thread is boiling down to, reporting = better from some folks.

Even the PC folks are having this problem.

How prevalent is this problem really? I haven't played MW2 yet, but in most other games with rocket launchers it is really something people use occasionally because it is funny....its not like they can survive the explosion.Truth-slayer

How prevalent is this problem really? I haven't played MW2 yet, but in most other games with rocket launchers it is really something people use occasionally because it is funny....its not like they can survive the explosion.Truth-slayer

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

Infinity Ward SHOULD have Public Beta Tested it.

IW is responsible to regulate their game, not Sony. It's nice that Xbox wanted to get involved, but ultimately, it wasn't required. This is all on IW and ACTIVISION. EPIC's GeoW has a LOT of exploits, and those don't get fixed, so I don't see why this exploit should be treated differently.

If it's in the game, although it sucks, it's the Devs fault.

Anyways, IW is working on a patch due this week or next, so this is all pointless to talk about anyways...as it will be ancient history.

And THIS IS WHY PUBLIC BETA Testing is good folks.

SolidTy

After working on software releases for 12 years, even public betas won't catch everything. Issues that are found are prioritized to be fixed pre-release, or scheduled for subsequent patches and version releases.

Only when that software or service is released into the wild do we really know if a glitch exists. Even for some known issues, only in the wild do we really find out their reach and severity.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the upcoming patch is a good thing.

The issue that I have a problem with is Sony's response to those that abuse the glitch as it currently exists. Even a PR-driven heart-felt plea to stop cheating would be a clear statement that they do not condone cheating. The spin on the Sony rep's quote makes them seem snotty and possibly incompetent. But hey, that's just me. Of course, the idea that this thread has gone on for how-many-pages leads me to believe I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

Actually, in SW length of thread doesn't prove anything but posters hate __________ (name the console here).

Also, you must know that I realize public beta testing doesn't catch everything. I think we all do. HOWEVER, this glitch was found so early after the game launched, that it's more likely to have been discovered in a Beta Testing environ. We'll never know because it wasn't public betatested.

I won't defend a company that won't beta their games about glitches that come out out so soon after launch. This was too fast. I felt the same way when GeoW2 came out, and it was glitch city. It was so bad, I lost my save and rank. I also see people glitch in that game, and I have to wonder, maybe that isn't the glitch, maybe this stuff is okay, since it's so rampant.

As far as responses, ACTIVISION is a very powerful company, who knows how much they put into this affair at all. Remember, ACTIVISION and Sony aren't the best of buds right now (Sony's CEO calling the ACTI CEO out, ACTI asking for PS3 drop, etc.). Then we see on the flip side, A MW2 360 console bundle, past bundles with ACTI"s MUA, etc. Xbox may feel more reponsible, or have a better rapport with ACTI. Who knows.

This will all be fixed either way.

The reporting system on 360 is a plus for those that want to chat about that, sure. That's what this thread is boiling down to, reporting = better from some folks.

Even the PC folks are having this problem.

In terms of whether Activition knew about the glitch or not, or if there are politics involved, the real answer is that we don't know. Would a public beta have caught this? Who knows? Hindsight is 20/20 after all. Besides, this is all just speculation after-the-fact. The net-net of it all is that yes, a patch is in the works. Again, I don't think anyone will argue with the idea that this is a good thing. It definitely is good. On this, we agree.

What I have issue with is Sony's response to it. On the surface, it's a PR gaff. For those that really care about online glitching, it'd be nice to hear Sony say they care about the PSN user experience and are addressing the issue. Instead, we get a shrug and a "meh". Dig a teeny bit deeper and we see chinks in the Sony armor. Cases like this would greatly benefit from a single Sony mouthpiece towing the company line. Xbox Live has the likes of Larry Hryb and for this issue, Stephen Toulouse. For Sony, we get some unnamed rep.

IW should fix it.IronBass

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

After working on software releases for 12 years, even public betas won't catch everything. Issues that are found are prioritized to be fixed pre-release, or scheduled for subsequent patches and version releases.

Only when that software or service is released into the wild do we really know if a glitch exists. Even for some known issues, only in the wild do we really find out their reach and severity.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the upcoming patch is a good thing.

The issue that I have a problem with is Sony's response to those that abuse the glitch as it currently exists. Even a PR-driven heart-felt plea to stop cheating would be a clear statement that they do not condone cheating. The spin on the Sony rep's quote makes them seem snotty and possibly incompetent. But hey, that's just me. Of course, the idea that this thread has gone on for how-many-pages leads me to believe I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

VoodooHak

Actually, in SW length of thread doesn't prove anything but posters hate __________ (name the console here).

Also, you must know that I realize public beta testing doesn't catch everything. I think we all do. HOWEVER, this glitch was found so early after the game launched, that it's more likely to have been discovered in a Beta Testing environ. We'll never know because it wasn't public betatested.

I won't defend a company that won't beta their games about glitches that come out out so soon after launch. This was too fast. I felt the same way when GeoW2 came out, and it was glitch city. It was so bad, I lost my save and rank. I also see people glitch in that game, and I have to wonder, maybe that isn't the glitch, maybe this stuff is okay, since it's so rampant.

As far as responses, ACTIVISION is a very powerful company, who knows how much they put into this affair at all. Remember, ACTIVISION and Sony aren't the best of buds right now (Sony's CEO calling the ACTI CEO out, ACTI asking for PS3 drop, etc.). Then we see on the flip side, A MW2 360 console bundle, past bundles with ACTI"s MUA, etc. Xbox may feel more reponsible, or have a better rapport with ACTI. Who knows.

This will all be fixed either way.

The reporting system on 360 is a plus for those that want to chat about that, sure. That's what this thread is boiling down to, reporting = better from some folks.

Even the PC folks are having this problem.

In terms of whether Activition knew about the glitch or not, or if there are politics involved, the real answer is that we don't know. Would a public beta have caught this? Who knows? Hindsight is 20/20 after all. Besides, this is all just speculation after-the-fact. The net-net of it all is that yes, a patch is in the works. Again, I don't think anyone will argue with the idea that this is a good thing. It definitely is good. On this, we agree.

What I have issue with is Sony's response to it. On the surface, it's a PR gaff. For those that really care about online glitching, it'd be nice to hear Sony say they care about the PSN user experience and are addressing the issue. Instead, we get a shrug and a "meh". Dig a teeny bit deeper and we see chinks in the Sony armor. Cases like this would greatly benefit from a single Sony mouthpiece towing the company line. Xbox Live has the likes of Larry Hryb and for this issue, Stephen Toulouse. For Sony, we get some unnamed rep.

I can see that being an issue for folks, but it makes me ask, who speaks for the PC audience? Who's to blame there?

Well the biggest problem is that it tracks stats.
If they could reset the stats to before a javalin incident it wouldn't be bad.
But now You're kind of in between two evils.
Either You ban people, or You let other peoples stats go bad.

I'm with sony for this one, i thiiiiiiiiink.
But that's a tough call.

IW should fix it.IronBass

Shouldn't it be up to the devs to actually fix this? I mean what does this have to do with Sony or Microsoft? Yes it uses their services to bring the game to the consoles but still it should be up to IW for correcting this not have people being permabanned. Least that is what I think.xXDrPainXx

http://kotaku.com/5418607/javelin-cheats-sony-dont-give-a-hoot

While Microsoft will take swift, stern action against anyone caught using the javelin "exploit" in Modern Warfare 2, Sony apparently couldn't care less. A Sony rep has told CVG "I don't believe we are banning people for using the glitch". If they're not banning people outright, makes you wonder what they are doing. Simply watching? Placing marks next to people's names? Tutting endlessly? Sony NOT banning for MW2 Javelin glitch

So what do you guys think? Is Sony or IW responsible to regulate MW2?

akira2465

One of the benefits to paying for a service is that in order to keep that service worth the money, you need to have standards. Microsoft's standards include maintaining proper gaming ettiquite. This is one of those things people neglect to see when saying Xbox Live is NOT worth the money.

Apparently, a good portion of GS are apparently unable to discern the difference between 'ban' and 'suspension'. Man, the mods here can have a field day exploiting that little bout of ignorance.

I can see that being an issue for folks, but it makes me ask, who speaks for the PC audience? Who's to blame there?

SolidTy

There is only the publisher and the dev and whatever specific entity is involved with whatever issue. I know that with STEAM, Valve is vocal about addressing issues as is xfire. However, I don't have enough experience with the other services to comment any further.

But for the PC community as a whole...nada. That's the nature of a platform where there is no universal platform owner.

It's funny how some people are shocked that Sony has bad PR, it's pretty much their biggest fault all gen.

teap banning players for using the glitch thats the one whos ay fault here... MICROSOFT!!! IW is responsible for patching the game so you cant exploit the bug simple its not cheating when its part of the game

[QUOTE="Truth-slayer"]How prevalent is this problem really? I haven't played MW2 yet, but in most other games with rocket launchers it is really something people use occasionally because it is funny....its not like they can survive the explosion.Zero_epyon

lol @ Banning because of a glitch A glitch is a developer's problem, it's in the game. Why the **** would someone get banned for doing something that's IN THE GAME? Besides, the javelin glitch isn't even helpful or anything. You have to GET KILLED to GET KILLS. So what's the point? The guys I see doing the javelin glitch usually end up with more deaths than kills. So that just proves how stupid it is. I'd rather not use the glitch and get 30 or more kills and 10 or less deaths like I usually do than than run around trying to get close to people for them to kill me and risk getting 18 kills and 25 deaths or something like that. Also... whenever I see someone trying to do it to me, I just run away with my lightweight and marathon until they're far enough so the explosion wont kill me then I just shoot them. Who cares about the glitch. It's stupid and people shouldn't get banned for it. If anyone should be penalized, it's IW for not fixing it. Why should anyone EVER get penalized for something that's part of the game? I don't remember reading any rules that said you can't do it or you'll get banned. Messiahbolical-

In that case let's bann team killers too since they ruin the game for the rest of us. :roll:

It's not sony's responsibility to own up to dev mistakes and it certaintly is not their responsibility to put out additional resourses to facilitate bans just because of a bug in one game.

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Truth-slayer"]How prevalent is this problem really? I haven't played MW2 yet, but in most other games with rocket launchers it is really something people use occasionally because it is funny....its not like they can survive the explosion.Verge_6

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Zero_epyon"] It's not. and if you see a guy running around with a javlen, don't shoot him until u can have some distance. What's really the difference between that and Martyrdom?Zero_epyon

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Martyrdom has a blast radius that covers 1/5 of most maps? Brilliant. :|Verge_6

I don't think they want to cut down the player base on MW2 for their platform right now, no matter the numbers. It's IW responsibility to fix this, anywho. I think if anything, punishment should be done through IW. Maybe reset ranks all the way back. I think that'd be neat and I'm pretty certain they'd still play.

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Martyrdom has a blast radius that covers 1/5 of most maps? Brilliant. :|Verge_6

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Verge_6"] Martyrdom has a blast radius that covers 1/5 of most maps? Brilliant. :|Verge_6

You're exaggerating I Javelin is no bigger than the bomb the explodes in search and destroy. I've seen martyrdom take out a room full of 4 people once. guy ran in there and no one saw the grenade.Zero_epyon

It's not sony's responsibility to own up to dev mistakes and it certaintly is not their responsibility to put out additional resourses to facilitate bans just because of a bug in one game.

Irick_cb

So this is another differentiator between PSN and XBL.

MS takes the responsibility on themselves to punish those that exploit a known bug. That's what you do when the focus on is on community.

If anything, Sony's sending a cryptic message. Are they saying we can cheat all we want without any repurcussions? It'd be nice to see them take a definite stance before the confusion grows and people start making assumptions on their behalf.

This is IW's problem not sonys. It is sonys right not to care about something that the developers missed. Xbox can do whatever they want, and so can sony it just seems sony doesnt care and neither would I.

They cannot really ban you to well, since you can just create a new free PSN account. That is one benefit to the XBL fee. One of the only benefits.SpruceCaboose

I'd assume sony would ban from IP.

IW should fix it.IronBass

It's not Sony's fault that IW or Activision messed up when making their game. Why should Sony go out of their way to resolve it?

IW, Activision or whoever made it, should make an update fixing it.

Let me put it from the glitcher's perspective. "Why should i get banned for something that was in the game and quite alot of people are doing it and to stay competitive i had to do it too. I have paid for the game and you cannot ban me because the game was broke(glitch) when i got it. Its a violation of my consumer rights." i myself dont agree with this but i have seen glitchers speak out in a discussion of banning glitchers and this is what they normally say. In a twisted way they're right.exiledsnake

That logic falls under *if everyone is doing it I am going to as well*, sounds like real life lemmings you got there.

that glitch is IWs fault so why should sony ban people? also MS has standards and a superior service and they care about the gamers who want to play the game for fun without any cheap ass glitcher ruining it and thats the reason MS took action so why would sony care when PSN is mediocre free service.

sikanderahmed

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]The Javelin has a much larger blast radius than martyrdom. Why you are downplaying it is confounding.

savagetwinkie