Square Enix ports are going to eat your babies

Now gamers are faced with a real danger: ports and remakes by Square Enix. Never before have we seen such behavior, especially not in the PSX era where Square was run by divine wisdom from God.

Nothing is more threatening than knowing somewhere out there a gamer is enjoying a port of a celebrated game of old. Not only will it seriously impede on FFXIII, knowing that the quality of the sound and graphics as well as content has been contributed to by games such as Chrono Trigger DS, but porting games takes a huge amount of resources from Square and is an extremely complicated process.

That's why Square is only working on FFXIII, they just can't afford to produce any other new games.

What's worse is that most of these ports are absolutely terrible, not to mention the remakes.

Does the thought of someone out there playing Final Fantasy VI on the GBA slot of their DSL make you sick?

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

AlphaGamer469

I disagree. It's a good game, but its overrated. Notice it was released in the mid 90s, so really the mid to late 90s that were amazing for Square Soft. Since then its true that they've stumbled a bit, partly due to a certain member of their staff getting up and leaving XII before his job was finished, but XIII looks amazing.

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

MrDziekuje

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

Umm... The World Ends With You was a new IP from them, and friggin' amazing as well. It's the best JRPG this generation.

SE this and SE that, they get entirely too much attention these days. I'll take Atlus over SE these days with most games.

I like the remakes

plus there are many gamers that didn't get to play those gems way back when, that and the fact that most of the remakes are made on the portables and we are a multitasking generation.

I hope people realize this is satire.

Every gen it seems Square releases one or two of the best RPGs ever. The funds from these ports are not going to waste.

I hope people realize this is satire.

hakanakumono

Obvious sarcasm = cold hard facts. :P

Umm... The World Ends With You was a new IP from them, and friggin' amazing as well. It's the best JRPG this generation.

millwrought

I completely agree.

I hope people realize this is satire.

hakanakumono

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

AlphaGamer469

Oh yeah, in the PS era we got

• Vagrant Story
• Xenogears
• Chrono Cross
• Final Fantasy VII
• Final Fantasy VIII
• Final Fantasy IX
• Parasite Eve
• Parasite Eve 2

Sorry, but I'd say during the PS1 era they peaked.

The problem does not lie in the fact that SE is making ports. The problem lies in the fact that they are willing to charge full price for what are basically small tweaks to decade-old games in order to run them on a new platform. If SE wasn't milking the cash cow and taking advantage of their customers, they would be charging a fraction of full-priced games, or they would bundle their games in collections to give the customer their money's worth. Also, the ratio of of ports to original new IPs in development is obscene. They seem to have lost most of their creativity so they "outsource" their development to other studios and reap the rewards as publisher (whether they be ports or half-assed new IPs).

Even The World Ends With You, arguably the best most original SE title in a long time, was just oozing with missed potential. The game was really light on content, and the story didn't really go anywhere until near the end.Also, there was too much back-tracking because the world was too small. The combat was great, but besides the prospect of new pins, there wasn't a lot of reason to fight, outside of what they force you to do in the main storyline. If there were more side-activities that required the use of new exciting rare pins or something, then maybe there would have been more of a reason to continue to actively seek out battles. It would have also extended the amount of time it took to beat the game too.

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

AlphaGamer469

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

AlphaGamer469

lol no they weren't and FF7 destroys chrono trigger.

[QUOTE="MrDziekuje"]

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

hakanakumono

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

Trinners

lol no they weren't and FF7 destroys chrono trigger.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="MrDziekuje"]

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

world69star69

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

The problem does not lie in the fact that SE is making ports. The problem lies in the fact that they are willing to charge full price for what are basically small tweaks to decade-old games in order to run them on a new platform. If SE wasn't milking the cash cow and taking advantage of their customers, they would be charging a fraction of full-priced games, or they would bundle their games in collections to give the customer their money's worth. Also, the ratio of of ports to original new IPs in development is obscene. They seem to have lost most of their creativity so they "outsource" their development to other studios and reap the rewards as publisher (whether they be ports or half-assed new IPs).

Even The World Ends With You, arguably the best most original SE title in a long time, was just oozing with missed potential. The game was really light on content, and the story didn't really go anywhere until near the end.Also, there was too much back-tracking because the world was too small. The combat was great, but besides the prospect of new pins, there wasn't a lot of reason to fight, outside of what they force you to do in the main storyline. If there were more side-activities that required the use of new exciting rare pins or something, then maybe there would have been more of a reason to continue to actively seek out battles. It would have also extended the amount of time it took to beat the game too.

DrinkDuff

That's a good point about cost, Chrono Trigger shouldn't have been $40, it wasn't even that much on the playstation port. But the reason why there aren't so many new IPs is because of the high cost of development this gen.

Idk about TWEWY, I actually don't harbor any interest for it.

[QUOTE="world69star69"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

MortalDecay

They have extremely crappy fmv in the beggining that looks blocky. That's it.

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

MrDziekuje

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="MrDziekuje"]

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

world69star69

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

I wouldn't mind V being on DS. The lighthearted attitude of the game matches DS. But VI deserves more.

[QUOTE="MortalDecay"][QUOTE="world69star69"] FF V - FF IX on psp in crisis core engine!! One can only dream..they won't do it though...it's way easier for them to make low res, small textures and no fmv for ds.hakanakumono

They have extremely crappy fmv in the beggining that looks blocky. That's it.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="MortalDecay"] You do know that the FF remakes on the DS have FMV, right?MortalDecay

They have extremely crappy fmv in the beggining that looks blocky. That's it.

It's not that it's a handheld, it's that its a cartridge with lower video quality than PS1 fmv. It's even worse that sega saturn fmv. You can especially see how FFIV suffers from this, when instead of what should have been an fmv it shows still shots of prerendered frames.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="MortalDecay"] You do know that the FF remakes on the DS have FMV, right?MortalDecay

They have extremely crappy fmv in the beggining that looks blocky. That's it.

PSP isn't dead, it's been neck and neck with the DS in Japan and has at least 3 square games coming out for it in the near future (Parasite Eve 3, Final Fantasy XIII, and some Kingdom Hearts game).

Edit: 4 games. Dissidia comes out shortly.

[QUOTE="MrDziekuje"]

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

hakanakumono

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

Besides all that, I don't have a PSP and have no desire to buy one, even for one of my favorite games ever.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="MrDziekuje"]

They can eat my babies and my woman too. I just want FFVI on DS.

FFCYAN

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

Besides all that, I don't have a PSP and have no desire to buy one, even for one of my favorite games ever.

FINAL FANTASY VI SPOILERS

I think that a lot of the game could be done without fmv, but scenes like where Kefka messes with the statues and turns it to the world of ruin and the opening of the gate to the Esper world where they all fly about really demand fmv imo. I don't think they could be done in engine very well. Just those two come to mind, however.

END SPOILERS

The rest could go to what you suggested, except I don't really care if they use voices or not and almost prefer it if they don't considering the potential for extremely bad/awkard voice acting like in Crisis Core.

Edit: Oh and I think FFIV could get away with DS graphics, but I don't think VI could.

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I want VI on PSP with fmv and near PS2 graphics. The game really deserves it. The level of detail in the original is amazing, but DS games are really low on the texture level (mostly because textures seem to be so huge and blocky they all have to resort to extensive texture smoothing). And I don't think either system can do justice to certain scenes without the use FMV.

It's not that I have anything on the DS before someone jumps on me for this, it's just that the PSP would do the game better.

hakanakumono

Besides all that, I don't have a PSP and have no desire to buy one, even for one of my favorite games ever.

FINAL FANTASY VI SPOILERS

I think that a lot of the game could be done without fmv, but scenes like where Kefka messes with the statues and turns it to the world of ruin and the opening of the gate to the Esper world where they all fly about really demand fmv imo. I don't think they could be done in engine very well. Just those two come to mind, however.

END SPOILERS

The rest could go to what you suggested, except I don't really care if they use voices or not and almost prefer it if they don't considering the potential for extremely bad/awkard voice acting like in Crisis Core.

Edit: Oh and I think FFIV could get away with DS graphics, but I don't think VI could.

Add this:

I'll be content.:) I prefer a more charming, lighthearted look to a more "hard-edged" look. FFVI is full of whimsy.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]I'm going to agree with you to some extent. FFVI has some of the best moment in gaming for me and pulling off some of them eloquently would be a challenge for either system. As I said to you in an earlier thread some time ago, I think FMV is a waste of space. It's memory better suited for spoken dialog, an extra dungeon, more detailed envoronments, whatever. Considering SE's handle on system capabilities, running cutscenes from the in-game engine would be better. I think FFIV's cutscenes looked great. My only complaint would be the weak voice acting sometimes.

Besides all that, I don't have a PSP and have no desire to buy one, even for one of my favorite games ever.

FFCYAN

FINAL FANTASY VI SPOILERS

I think that a lot of the game could be done without fmv, but scenes like where Kefka messes with the statues and turns it to the world of ruin and the opening of the gate to the Esper world where they all fly about really demand fmv imo. I don't think they could be done in engine very well. Just those two come to mind, however.

END SPOILERS

The rest could go to what you suggested, except I don't really care if they use voices or not and almost prefer it if they don't considering the potential for extremely bad/awkard voice acting like in Crisis Core.

Edit: Oh and I think FFIV could get away with DS graphics, but I don't think VI could.

Add this:

I'll be content.:) I prefer a more charming, lighthearted look to a more "hard-edged" look. FFVI is full of whimsy.

You don't need those kind of graphics to do whimsy. If the game looked like that I would honestly be extremely upset with Square. I want it to look more like this:

VI has whimsy, yes, but it's the more serious tone of VI that I appreciate. I'd honestly like it if they revamped it a little bit to make it more mature. Graphics like what Terra looks like in Dissidia would work too (a little more cartoony)

If VI looked like the above it would look great.

I'll buy any FF remake on consoles or at least PSP... any time... I don't think the DS is justified anymore... although I did like FFIII and IV I still think remaking them on PSP would've been even better... Let's face it FF III and FF IV on DS didn't use the tactical screen that much or should I say at all...haris12121212

It's impossible to control your character in IV using the crappy stylus control system they had. You're right, anyways.

I would be ok with those graphics but FFVI never took itself too seriously, even thought there were plenty of serious moments. It had a balance of humor, death, quirkyness, awkwardness, light heartedness, sadness, hopelessnessthat is just NOT in games anymore (in one single game I mean).

Final Fantasy VI had soul. It had characters who were multi-dimensional. The music ALONE set the mood/tone in many scenes/instances. In fact, it was the butchering of the FFVI Advance version's music adaption that turned me off to getting it. I would say the soundtrack is Nobou Umastu's best work and part of the reason FFVI is one of my favorite games.

To me, there is no "mature" in FFVI, there is only FFVI.

I would be ok with those graphics but FFVI never took itself too seriously, even thought there were plenty of serious moments. It had a balance of humor, death, quirkyness, awkwardness, light heartedness, sadness, hopelessnessthat is just NOT in games anymore (in one single game I mean).

Final Fantasy VI had soul. It had characters who were multi-dimensional. The music ALONE set the mood/tone in many scenes/instances. In fact, it was the butchering of the FFVI Advance version's music adaption that turned me off to getting it. I would say the soundtrack is Nobou Umastu's best work and part of the reason FFVI is one of my favorite games.

To me, there is no "mature" in FFVI, there is only FFVI.

FFCYAN

I think "not taking itself too seriously" is a sign that it wasn't taking itself serious enough. Game storylines should take themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they cant be light hearted at times.

Multidimensional characters are an appeal towards depth, which is a step towards mature. And I'd argue there WAS mature in VI, but ... at the time videogame storytelling was still maturing (no pun intended).

Every Final Fantasy is quirky except for XII. Even VIII. VI ~ X all have a good balance of seriousness and sillyness, although VI could use a little more expansion on it's more serious themes imo.

Was the music really that bad in VI advance? I bought it recently for the better translation, but I'm thinking of selling it after playing it and buying the Japanese ver in the Final Fantasy Collection for playstation.

Oh and VII, VIII, IX, and X all had a soul too. I put VI ~ X in that category.

You probably need to understand that SE is re-making games not just for the hardcore fans but for the newcomers who want to taste the initial games in the FF or the DQ series. And then, you always have the option of not buying them ^_^ But yes, for people like me who missed on the initial games, FF I and FF II Anniversary Editions on the PSP are welcome. In fact, I would love to see the first six games re-made for the PSP or on the PSN. The other point is that the next-gen game development is costly. The developers need a lot of money to keep going and by remaking these games they have an easy way for earning revenues.oceansandearth

I do understand. :(

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]

I would be ok with those graphics but FFVI never took itself too seriously, even thought there were plenty of serious moments. It had a balance of humor, death, quirkyness, awkwardness, light heartedness, sadness, hopelessnessthat is just NOT in games anymore (in one single game I mean).

Final Fantasy VI had soul. It had characters who were multi-dimensional. The music ALONE set the mood/tone in many scenes/instances. In fact, it was the butchering of the FFVI Advance version's music adaption that turned me off to getting it. I would say the soundtrack is Nobou Umastu's best work and part of the reason FFVI is one of my favorite games.

To me, there is no "mature" in FFVI, there is only FFVI.

hakanakumono

I think "not taking itself too seriously" is a sign that it wasn't taking itself serious enough. Game storylines should take themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they cant be light hearted at times.

Multidimensional characters are an appeal towards depth, which is a step towards mature. And I'd argue there WAS mature in VI, but ... at the time videogame storytelling was still maturing (no pun intended).

Every Final Fantasy is quirky except for XII. Even VIII. VI ~ X all have a good balance of seriousness and sillyness, although VI could use a little more expansion on it's more serious themes imo.

Was the music really that bad in VI advance? I bought it recently for the better translation, but I'm thinking of selling it after playing it and buying the Japanese ver in the Final Fantasy Collection for playstation.

Oh and VII, VIII, IX, and X all had a soul too. I put VI ~ X in that category.

There is a reason FFVI has held up to a high regard for so long. It's on nearly every best game ever/Hall of Fame list. To want something that was not meant to be there in the first place (alteration to the overall story presentation, expanding it's more serious themes) would notbode well with why it was so good to begin with, IMO. I love this game the way it is and needs only a fresh coat of paint.

As for the music in FFVI Advance, it's not bad, it's just not the same. By it's own right the music sounds good, but it's inferior to the original score and that takes away the impact the music had. But that's just me. I refuse to accept this inferior music of some of the best music ever made.:x

Edit:I meant that some songs are not as reconizable as the originals, Dancing Mad is actually good in this version.:P

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]

I would be ok with those graphics but FFVI never took itself too seriously, even thought there were plenty of serious moments. It had a balance of humor, death, quirkyness, awkwardness, light heartedness, sadness, hopelessnessthat is just NOT in games anymore (in one single game I mean).

Final Fantasy VI had soul. It had characters who were multi-dimensional. The music ALONE set the mood/tone in many scenes/instances. In fact, it was the butchering of the FFVI Advance version's music adaption that turned me off to getting it. I would say the soundtrack is Nobou Umastu's best work and part of the reason FFVI is one of my favorite games.

To me, there is no "mature" in FFVI, there is only FFVI.

FFCYAN

I think "not taking itself too seriously" is a sign that it wasn't taking itself serious enough. Game storylines should take themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they cant be light hearted at times.

Multidimensional characters are an appeal towards depth, which is a step towards mature. And I'd argue there WAS mature in VI, but ... at the time videogame storytelling was still maturing (no pun intended).

Every Final Fantasy is quirky except for XII. Even VIII. VI ~ X all have a good balance of seriousness and sillyness, although VI could use a little more expansion on it's more serious themes imo.

Was the music really that bad in VI advance? I bought it recently for the better translation, but I'm thinking of selling it after playing it and buying the Japanese ver in the Final Fantasy Collection for playstation.

Oh and VII, VIII, IX, and X all had a soul too. I put VI ~ X in that category.

There is a reason FFVI has held up to a high regard for so long. It's on nearly every best game ever/Hall of Fame list. To want something that was not meant to be there in the first place (alteration to the overall story presentation, expanding it's more serious themes) would notbode well with why it was so good to begin with, IMO. I love this game the way it is and needs only a fresh coat of paint.

As for the music in FFVI Advance, it's not bad, it's just not the same. By it's own right the music sounds good, but it's inferior to the original score and that takes away the impact the music had. Some songs like the final battle (Dancing Mad) is not even reconizable to the original. But that's just me. I refuse to accept this inferior music of some of the best music ever made.:x

I see, and I agree. It can't be summed up by a single word. There's so much in VI and it's really great.

As for the expansion, maybe not much ... I just feel the game should take a bit more time to dwell on the character's thoughts, feelings, and meaning of what's happened in the game. You're against altering the story presentation, so naturally you're against this, but I think it would strengthen the title further.

Btw, you seem to like lighthearted JRPGs. Have you ever played Grandia? I think you'd really like it (although I can't vouch for how good the English script is, the Japanese is really good).

The music int he original is pretty good. :s I wasn't aware they changed it.

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I think "not taking itself too seriously" is a sign that it wasn't taking itself serious enough. Game storylines should take themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they cant be light hearted at times.

Multidimensional characters are an appeal towards depth, which is a step towards mature. And I'd argue there WAS mature in VI, but ... at the time videogame storytelling was still maturing (no pun intended).

Every Final Fantasy is quirky except for XII. Even VIII. VI ~ X all have a good balance of seriousness and sillyness, although VI could use a little more expansion on it's more serious themes imo.

Was the music really that bad in VI advance? I bought it recently for the better translation, but I'm thinking of selling it after playing it and buying the Japanese ver in the Final Fantasy Collection for playstation.

Oh and VII, VIII, IX, and X all had a soul too. I put VI ~ X in that category.

hakanakumono

There is a reason FFVI has held up to a high regard for so long. It's on nearly every best game ever/Hall of Fame list. To want something that was not meant to be there in the first place (alteration to the overall story presentation, expanding it's more serious themes) would notbode well with why it was so good to begin with, IMO. I love this game the way it is and needs only a fresh coat of paint.

As for the music in FFVI Advance, it's not bad, it's just not the same. By it's own right the music sounds good, but it's inferior to the original score and that takes away the impact the music had. Some songs like the final battle (Dancing Mad) is not even reconizable to the original. But that's just me. I refuse to accept this inferior music of some of the best music ever made.:x

I see, and I agree. It can't be summed up by a single word. There's so much in VI and it's really great.

As for the expansion, maybe not much ... I just feel the game should take a bit more time to dwell on the character's thoughts, feelings, and meaning of what's happened in the game. You're against altering the story presentation, so naturally you're against this, but I think it would strengthen the title further.

Btw, you seem to like lighthearted JRPGs. Have you ever played Grandia? I think you'd really like it (although I can't vouch for how good the English script is, the Japanese is really good).

The music int he original is pretty good. :s I wasn't aware they changed it.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="FFCYAN"]I wasn't really saying FFVI wasn't mature (which it was). I was trying to say I wouldn't label it with that word or any word really. It's not mature, silly, funny, memorable, it's all those things. Hence I wouldn't label it with any SINGLE word.

There is a reason FFVI has held up to a high regard for so long. It's on nearly every best game ever/Hall of Fame list. To want something that was not meant to be there in the first place (alteration to the overall story presentation, expanding it's more serious themes) would notbode well with why it was so good to begin with, IMO. I love this game the way it is and needs only a fresh coat of paint.

As for the music in FFVI Advance, it's not bad, it's just not the same. By it's own right the music sounds good, but it's inferior to the original score and that takes away the impact the music had. Some songs like the final battle (Dancing Mad) is not even reconizable to the original. But that's just me. I refuse to accept this inferior music of some of the best music ever made.:x

FFCYAN

I see, and I agree. It can't be summed up by a single word. There's so much in VI and it's really great.

As for the expansion, maybe not much ... I just feel the game should take a bit more time to dwell on the character's thoughts, feelings, and meaning of what's happened in the game. You're against altering the story presentation, so naturally you're against this, but I think it would strengthen the title further.

Btw, you seem to like lighthearted JRPGs. Have you ever played Grandia? I think you'd really like it (although I can't vouch for how good the English script is, the Japanese is really good).

The music int he original is pretty good. :s I wasn't aware they changed it.

I can enjoy light hearted RPGs, but my preference is definitely with the more serious ones - increasingly as I've gotten older.

Oh and Grandia is probably the most charming RPG I've ever played.

[QUOTE="AlphaGamer469"]

So what was Square concidered BEFORE the PS era when they cranked out the BEST JRPG ever (Chrono Trigger?) Face it, they were way better before the PS era....

Trinners

lol no they weren't and FF7 destroys chrono trigger.

They are good games.