Steam must join the 21st Century

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Hexagon_777

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#1 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

Chart-Track has hit back at download platform Steam for dismissing the need for a digital chart.

Steam's Jason Holtman told MCV last month that the idea of a chart 'is old' and that it isn't 'super important for a company to know how well everyone else is doing'.

Now Chart-Track's MD John Pinder has fired back at the PC download giant in a letter to MCV, saying holding back data would be a backwards step for the games industry.MCV UK

The above is only an excerpt. You can read the full article here.

Not sure whose side I am on but at least PC gaming wouldn't be claimed dead by ignorant fools if this were to happen. :|

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Messiahbolical-

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#2 Messiahbolical-
Member since 2009 • 5670 Posts
Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since.
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tutt3r

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#3 tutt3r
Member since 2005 • 2865 Posts

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

"We know from years of experience with publishers, retailers and developers that the ability to benchmark every aspect of their business, to monitor competitor titles, to track market developments and to identify new trends are all key requirements."

Nope, they are just mad that this data is given directly to the publishers cutting out the need for businesses like his. Sales analysts and data charters are a relic and hardly hold any relevance in a time when companies don't need an outside source to chart trends in the market. The only reason he's firing out at valve is b/c they hold a huge share of the pc industry and thats a big gap in their data, making them practically useless in that area.

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nintendog66

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#4 nintendog66
Member since 2006 • 2300 Posts
Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. Messiahbolical-
This. The service Steam provides is WAY ahead of its time, at least compared to the crap Microsoft and Sony(and everyone else) call their "online service". Maybe Onlive is, relatively speaking, ahead of its time but it still doesn't work, Steam on the other hand has more functionality than all those services combined.
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broken_bass_bin

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#5 broken_bass_bin
Member since 2009 • 7515 Posts

Hilarious. MCV really have got some kind of personal vendetta against Steam haven't they?

If there were only one game retailer in the world, online or not, that has entered the 21st century, it would be Steam.

EDIT: Didn't read the OP properly. Whoops.

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Hexagon_777

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#6 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

"We know from years of experience with publishers, retailers and developers that the ability to benchmark every aspect of their business, to monitor competitor titles, to track market developments and to identify new trends are all key requirements."

Nope, they are just mad that this data is given directly to the publishers cutting out the need for businesses like his. Sales analysts and data charters are a relic and hardly hold any relevance in a time when companies don't need an outside source to chart trends in the market. The only reason he's firing out at valve is b/c they hold a huge share of the pc industry and thats a big gap in their data, making them practically useless in that area.

tutt3r

They have become pretty useless but that is what makes them dangerous in that area if they continue to report on retail sales for the PC alone. PC gaming dying was an industry wide argument and many console people actually believed it. Tell me that didn't hurt PC gaming just a bit.

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Firebird-5

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#7 Firebird-5
Member since 2007 • 2848 Posts

well for one steam launched in 2003. missed that 20th century boat by a couple

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SaltyMeatballs

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#8 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts
They don't give sales data because it's not that big
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Hexagon_777

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#9 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

Hilarious. MCV really have got some kind of personal vendetta against Steam haven't they?

If there were only one game retailer in the world, online or not, that has entered the 21st century, it would be Steam.

broken_bass_bin

MCV just reported on some industry news. Don't see how that means that they have a personal vendetta. :?

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PandaBear86

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#10 PandaBear86
Member since 2007 • 3389 Posts
Valve is a private company. They have no need to reveal sales numbers because they have no financial investors to report profits to.
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edinsftw

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#11 edinsftw
Member since 2009 • 4243 Posts

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

"We know from years of experience with publishers, retailers and developers that the ability to benchmark every aspect of their business, to monitor competitor titles, to track market developments and to identify new trends are all key requirements."

Nope, they are just mad that this data is given directly to the publishers cutting out the need for businesses like his. Sales analysts and data charters are a relic and hardly hold any relevance in a time when companies don't need an outside source to chart trends in the market. The only reason he's firing out at valve is b/c they hold a huge share of the pc industry and thats a big gap in their data, making them practically useless in that area.

Hexagon_777

They have become pretty useless but that is what makes them dangerous in that area if they continue to report on retail sales for the PC alone. PC gaming dying was an industry wide argument and many console people actually believed it. Tell me that didn't hurt PC gaming just a bit.

If people are really that stupid and gullible id rather not have them gaming with me, or i would so i could play tricks on them.

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ReddestSkies

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#12 ReddestSkies
Member since 2005 • 4087 Posts

Valve is a private company. They have no need to reveal sales numbers because they have no financial investors to report profits to.PandaBear86

This. They have 0 incentive to release sale data.

And really, the public doesn't need to know which game sells how many units. I really don't understand this obsession that gamers have with sales. I'd understand if these gamers were investors or something but they're not, they're just fanboys who want to see the other systems lose money

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tutt3r

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#13 tutt3r
Member since 2005 • 2865 Posts

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

"We know from years of experience with publishers, retailers and developers that the ability to benchmark every aspect of their business, to monitor competitor titles, to track market developments and to identify new trends are all key requirements."

Nope, they are just mad that this data is given directly to the publishers cutting out the need for businesses like his. Sales analysts and data charters are a relic and hardly hold any relevance in a time when companies don't need an outside source to chart trends in the market. The only reason he's firing out at valve is b/c they hold a huge share of the pc industry and thats a big gap in their data, making them practically useless in that area.

Hexagon_777

They have become pretty useless but that is what makes them dangerous in that area if they continue to report on retail sales for the PC alone. PC gaming dying was an industry wide argument and many console people actually believed it. Tell me that didn't hurt PC gaming just a bit.

I see your point, and yeah sales-charts like this probably do nothing to help the blind fanboy arguments spread around the internet. However such baseless rumors can only last so long. I don't think the pc gaming industry is so unstable that underrepresented data given out will effect it that negatively. Had it, I am sure every company that uses Valve as a DD platform (and that really is every major gaming pub/dev) would have spoken out a while ago. So perhaps yes it does nothing to help the 13 year old console fanboys who spout nonsense, but for the larger majority of people who are not so ignorant, it really doesn't matter. Besides lets be honest all of SW doesn't really like to look at sales data and predict industry wide change and talk about growth and possible market fluctuations, but instead they look at which console/game has the larger number next to it.

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Marka1700

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#14 Marka1700
Member since 2003 • 7500 Posts
If vale were a listed company I would agree but since they are completely private they have no reason to.
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ReddestSkies

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#15 ReddestSkies
Member since 2005 • 4087 Posts

[QUOTE="tutt3r"]

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

"We know from years of experience with publishers, retailers and developers that the ability to benchmark every aspect of their business, to monitor competitor titles, to track market developments and to identify new trends are all key requirements."

Nope, they are just mad that this data is given directly to the publishers cutting out the need for businesses like his. Sales analysts and data charters are a relic and hardly hold any relevance in a time when companies don't need an outside source to chart trends in the market. The only reason he's firing out at valve is b/c they hold a huge share of the pc industry and thats a big gap in their data, making them practically useless in that area.

Hexagon_777

They have become pretty useless but that is what makes them dangerous in that area if they continue to report on retail sales for the PC alone. PC gaming dying was an industry wide argument and many console people actually believed it. Tell me that didn't hurt PC gaming just a bit.

It's ALWAYS been an "industry-wide argument". People were saying that PC gaming was dead when the first pirate copied his 5 inch floppy disk of Dig Dug or something. Nobody with an experience in the industry takes this debate seriously.

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DoomZaW

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#16 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

They don't give sales data because it's not that bigSaltyMeatballs

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Im fairly certain there are alot of titles whose sale figures would double if not triple if steam released their sales data

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imprezawrx500

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#17 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts
who cares if steam gives sales figures or not, makes no difference except gives fanboys something to brag about.
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markop2003

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#18 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts
:lol: What a whiney little kid
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markop2003

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#19 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts
Valve is a private company. They have no need to reveal sales numbers because they have no financial investors to report profits to.PandaBear86
Even if they were public they wouldn't have to list individual product sales just overall sales and margins.
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DragoonKain1687

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#20 DragoonKain1687
Member since 2009 • 256 Posts

[QUOTE="MCV UK"]Chart-Track has hit back at download platform Steam for dismissing the need for a digital chart.

Steam's Jason Holtman told MCV last month that the idea of a chart 'is old' and that it isn't 'super important for a company to know how well everyone else is doing'.

Now Chart-Track's MD John Pinder has fired back at the PC download giant in a letter to MCV, saying holding back data would be a backwards step for the games industry.Hexagon_777

The above is only an excerpt. You can read the full article here.

Not sure whose side I am on but at least PC gaming wouldn't be claimed dead by ignorant fools if this were to happen. :|

Charts have only turned companies into a-holes.

Imagine if nobody knew how much CoD sold? Then companies wouldn't be so up tight saying: "If it does not reach CoD like sales its not good".

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soiheardyoulike

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#21 soiheardyoulike
Member since 2008 • 724 Posts

Dudes didnt you know that system wars i real life bros? I mean everyone cares about how well Section 8 Prejudice sold to the 10ths pace, instead of actually playing it.

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broken_bass_bin

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#22 broken_bass_bin
Member since 2009 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

Hilarious. MCV really have got some kind of personal vendetta against Steam haven't they?

If there were only one game retailer in the world, online or not, that has entered the 21st century, it would be Steam.

Hexagon_777

MCV just reported on some industry news. Don't see how that means that they have a personal vendetta. :?

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the OP properly, I thought the guy from ChartTrack was actually from MCV. Silly me.

Anyway, it's still hilarious. Obviously the Managing Director of ChartTrack, a business whose sole purpose is to report chart data, will throw his toys out of the pram when a major company doesn't share their data. It's not a step backwards for the industry, it just means his company is less relevant.

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Hexagon_777

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#23 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

Hilarious. MCV really have got some kind of personal vendetta against Steam haven't they?

If there were only one game retailer in the world, online or not, that has entered the 21st century, it would be Steam.

broken_bass_bin

MCV just reported on some industry news. Don't see how that means that they have a personal vendetta. :?

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the OP properly, I thought the guy from ChartTrack was actually from MCV. Silly me.

Anyway, it's still hilarious. Obviously the Managing Director of ChartTrack, a business whose sole purpose is to report chart data, will throw his toys out of the pram when a major company doesn't share their data. It's not a step backwards for the industry, it just means his company is less relevant.

The same pretty much applies to the NPD and other such organizations, does it not?

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22Toothpicks

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#24 22Toothpicks
Member since 2005 • 12546 Posts
[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. nintendog66
This. The service Steam provides is WAY ahead of its time, at least compared to the crap Microsoft and Sony(and everyone else) call their "online service". Maybe Onlive is, relatively speaking, ahead of its time but it still doesn't work, Steam on the other hand has more functionality than all those services combined.

I wouldn't call MS's and Sony's offerings 'crap' but they are certainly behind in a lot of ways.
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Mystic-G

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#25 Mystic-G
Member since 2006 • 6462 Posts

The only people who care are the ones who feed into the whole 'PC gaming is dying' mess. I personally don't need a sales chart to help me decide if a game I buy is good or not. The sales figure argument is nothing more than a ploy on video game forums, reaching to claim ownage in a meaningless manner.

Steam needs to catch up to the 21st Century? LOL... I wonder what century every other service is in then.

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broken_bass_bin

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#26 broken_bass_bin
Member since 2009 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]MCV just reported on some industry news. Don't see how that means that they have a personal vendetta. :?

Hexagon_777

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the OP properly, I thought the guy from ChartTrack was actually from MCV. Silly me.

Anyway, it's still hilarious. Obviously the Managing Director of ChartTrack, a business whose sole purpose is to report chart data, will throw his toys out of the pram when a major company doesn't share their data. It's not a step backwards for the industry, it just means his company is less relevant.

The same pretty much applies to the NPD and other such organizations, does it not?

...Yes?

I never said it didn't.

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Hexagon_777

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#27 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the OP properly, I thought the guy from ChartTrack was actually from MCV. Silly me.

Anyway, it's still hilarious. Obviously the Managing Director of ChartTrack, a business whose sole purpose is to report chart data, will throw his toys out of the pram when a major company doesn't share their data. It's not a step backwards for the industry, it just means his company is less relevant.

broken_bass_bin

The same pretty much applies to the NPD and other such organizations, does it not?

...Yes?

I never said it didn't.

And I never said you did. I was simply asking.

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broken_bass_bin

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#28 broken_bass_bin
Member since 2009 • 7515 Posts

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]The same pretty much applies to the NPD and other such organizations, does it not?

Hexagon_777

...Yes?

I never said it didn't.

And I never said you did. I was simply asking.

M'kay. I thought you were implying otherwise.

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Hexagon_777

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#29 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="broken_bass_bin"]

...Yes?

I never said it didn't.

broken_bass_bin

And I never said you did. I was simply asking.

M'kay. I thought you were implying otherwise.

Nah. Simply confirming something. The NPD is very prominent here in System Wars after all, much moreso than ChartTrack I believe.

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Birdy09

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#30 Birdy09
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts
I would say feature wise and aesthetic wise its ancient, but it does the primary things the best. Wish they would put more effort into networking, social aspects ect, and the overall design is hideous. like Xfire.
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Boomshaffted

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#31 Boomshaffted
Member since 2009 • 721 Posts

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. nintendog66
This. The service Steam provides is WAY ahead of its time, at least compared to the crap Microsoft and Sony(and everyone else) call their "online service". Maybe Onlive is, relatively speaking, ahead of its time but it still doesn't work, Steam on the other hand has more functionality than all those services combined.

I don't know. Outside of the actual game vending, Steam is basically the next in a very long line of behind-the-scenes unified gaming programs that we've been seeing since the 90's. Think the Total Entertainment Network (TEN) and things like it. It's certainly the most successful of the lot, largely because of the vending element giving people a reason to sign up, but in a lot of ways it's horrifically behind the times as one of those services.

I mean, before I actually started using Steam, I couldn't remember a service that didn't let me view my friends list without coming online and advertising what I was playing at any given moment. How does Steam manage to be the only service I can think of on the freaking net, at this point, that doesn't have an invisible mode? Game vending, steam gets an A. For being a background program that doesn't butt into your gaming experience but unifies it, it gets a B. For having an interface/experience that's got all the features, bells, and whistles one might expect from a contemporary service, it gets a bare passing grade, but it is missing some major items that make the term "ahead of its time" seem ludicrous in the regard.

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blue_hazy_basic

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#32 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts

A company that relies on sales data is complaining about a company that doesn't give up sales data? Shocking.

tutt3r

Perfectly sums up what I was thinking while reading the OP.

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topgunmv

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#33 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10880 Posts

Not sure whose side I am on but at least PC gaming wouldn't be claimed dead by ignorant fools if this were to happen. :|

Hexagon_777

Let them. It's like saying there's no money in drilling for oil.

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DJ_Headshot

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#34 DJ_Headshot
Member since 2010 • 6427 Posts

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"]Valve is a private company. They have no need to reveal sales numbers because they have no financial investors to report profits to.ReddestSkies

This. They have 0 incentive to release sale data.

And really, the public doesn't need to know which game sells how many units. I really don't understand this obsession that gamers have with sales. I'd understand if these gamers were investors or something but they're not, they're just fanboys who want to see the other systems lose money

I agree people are becoming so obsessed with sales now adays instead of just enjoying games.
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yellosnolvr

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#35 yellosnolvr
Member since 2005 • 19302 Posts

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

Not sure whose side I am on but at least PC gaming wouldn't be claimed dead by ignorant fools if this were to happen. :|

topgunmv

Let them. It's like saying there's no money in drilling for oil.

there isnt. i was in my backyard for like 14 hours one day trying to hit oil, never happened.
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hensothor

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#36 hensothor
Member since 2011 • 522 Posts
Anyone else have a double-take at the topic title? It made a little more sense after I read it, but it's still wrong.
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foxhound_fox

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#37 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
What exactly is "20th century" about a full digital download service that offers hundreds of games for a fraction of the price they would be in store?
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Miroku32

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#38 Miroku32
Member since 2006 • 8666 Posts
Strange. Then if Steam isn't on the 21st century what about Sony, MS and Ninty online services? Are they from the 19th century?
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skrat_01

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#39 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts
The guy has a point, but that works for Valve, and so far isn't evidently damaging to their business model
Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. Messiahbolical-
This a thousand times.
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Filthybastrd

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#40 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

I'm sure Valve does'nt need any other motivation than "we don't need to" to not release their sales. That singular fact will not affect the gaming industry at all... Well it may affect a certain commercial part a bit but that has nothing to do with consumer satisfaction and as such, I'd be pleased if this bastard is fired tomorrow along with all the other gaming industry leeches.

Edit: The interview'ed person completely fails to mention how there is any benefit to developers and consumers in tracking this data. In fact, he forgets to highlight why it's relevant to us at all.

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Ace6301

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#41 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
Steam makes everyone else look so old school they can't even fathom how far ahead steam is. Thus they assume steam is behind them in the times. Oh how wrong they are. It's good steam does it's own thing, as long as the company making the game knows the sales all is well. If the company wants to announce it's sales they can.
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savagetwinkie

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#42 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
I think valve not releasing data is probably worse for the game industry, a lot of poeple here seem to think that data is for consumers, its not, its for publishers and investers, And the reason why its bad, lets say a new IP is on the table for development, and the publisher goes to a company that has all this sales and trends data, well that sales and trend data isn't exactly valid but its the best they are going to get, and it doesn't appear this new IP is worth the risk. What if seeing the whole story caused the publisher to run with this game.
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deactivated-5e0e425ee91d8

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#43 deactivated-5e0e425ee91d8
Member since 2007 • 22399 Posts
The only thing I would change about Steam is getting them to offer cards, such as the download stores on the consoles. I was wary about using credit cards online before the whole PSN incident
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#44 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

I think valve not releasing data is probably worse for the game industry, a lot of poeple here seem to think that data is for consumers, its not, its for publishers and investers, And the reason why its bad, lets say a new IP is on the table for development, and the publisher goes to a company that has all this sales and trends data, well that sales and trend data isn't exactly valid but its the best they are going to get, and it doesn't appear this new IP is worth the risk. What if seeing the whole story caused the publisher to run with this game.savagetwinkie

Or the exact opposite. In reality it's developers that approach publishers with their idea and if they present something like Amnesia, the're pretty much automatically turned down.

We're looking at the world of CoD now, noone needs to know and indie devs desperately need to stay so.

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deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab

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#45 deactivated-5cf4b2c19c4ab
Member since 2008 • 17476 Posts

I'm sure Valve does'nt need any other motivation than "we don't need to" to not release their sales.

Filthybastrd

Pretty much, Valve can do whatever they want basically. Since they are privately owned they don't have to cater to parent companies or stockholders. They give the devs/publishers sales data for their respective games and they can release it if they want, but Valve themselves has no real incentive to release it unless they simply want to put out some sales numbers.

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cyborg100000

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#46 cyborg100000
Member since 2005 • 2905 Posts

Jobs, they have none.

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biggest_loser

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#47 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts
lol I always thought MCV stood for: Mobile Construction Vehicle!
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Hexagon_777

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#48 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

This has been quite a civilized discussion so far. Impressive, System Wars. :shock:

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wooooode

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#49 wooooode
Member since 2002 • 16666 Posts
Analyst just want the info because it is a tool for their job, which is an unneeded job to begin with.
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Mozelleple112

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#50 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts
Steam joined the 21st century early. Everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. Messiahbolical-
That's why Steam has slowly added the features of Xfire over time :roll: When will I get proper hour counting support for all my games (Like Xfire has) ? Until then, Steam is outdated and crappy, and rendered obsolete.