System Wars Myth: The PS2 has a poor library early on (like the Wii has)

In countless threads I've read that "even though the PS2 dominated last generation its library was very poor early on much like the Wii's.... so the Wii will get the same amount of good-game-action seeing as it has the sales just like the PS2 had..."

Not true, the PS2 sold so much because its library was so strong right out of the gate. Its games drove its sales.

The PS2 launched in late October 2000 here in the US, the Wii in November 2006 here.

Here are the AAA PS2 games available into very early July of the year following launch (the same point the Wii is at right now: )

Game:.......................................Rating:

SSX.............................................9.4

Madden NFL 2001..........................9.1

Tekken Tag Tournament............... 9.4

FIFA 2001.....................................9.0

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................9.1

Twisted Metal Black....................... 9.5

NBA Steet.................................... 9.3

GT3: A-Spec................................ 9.4

That's just the AAA's the PS2 had in that window.... 8 of them. It was a very good library - much better than the Wii's current one. It also had countless other AA's in that window (extremely good ones too... Onimusha, Timesplitters, DOA2, etc. Could go on forever.) This isn't including imports either (that would add another AAA,) just the games released in the North American market.

For the first time in history the system with the worst (and that's an understatement) library is reaping the majority of the sales.

Is this what happens when you design a system for non-gamers? Looks like it. I guess Wii shouldn't be surprised.

A lot of those are sports games and the only real gems worth anything was Tekken Tag and GT3.

The PS2 didn't do very well early on. Why is it the non-Playstation fans try so hard to separate the Playstation 2 and Playstation 3?

im still glad i didnt get a ps2 until ffx, gta, and dmc..

and im a tm fan... but i skipped tm black whatever reason... formula got old by then

Prepare for loads of "but guis, its all about personal preference :cry:" damage control. i mean like, massive amounts.

look at the second post :lol:

A lot of those are sports games and the only real gems worth anything was Tekken Tag and GT3.

The PS2 didn't do very well early on. Why is it the non-Playstation fans try so hard to separate the Playstation 2 and Playstation 3?

TekkenMaster606

1: Please... Twisted Metal, SSX, and Rayman were classics. That's not even including all of the high AA games the PS2 also had in that window (games like Timesplitters, Onimusha, and the like were a blast too.)

2: Also not true, it sold a million in ONE WEEKEND alone in JAPAN ONLY its opening week. Its sales were consistently high, much like the Wii's are right now (except the Wii doesn't have the games to back it up, games are not driving Wii sales. Games drove PS2 sales...)

PS2 was the bestsilverjiken

I second that.

Prepare for loads of "but guis, its all about personal preference :cry:" damage control. i mean like, massive amounts.

look at the second post :lol:

JPOBS

Games are all about personal preference :|

um.... why are you only mentioning the wii? The ps2 also has a better library than ps3 and 360 during that time. Plus, the ps2 was the successor to the playstation so it got alot of support. the wii is the successor to the gamecube so none of the devs knew it was gonna sell that good.Silenthps

Yes, the developers that developed games for the PS2 had to cater to its audience. Its audience were those that liked traditional, in-depth games (as evidenced by the games it received and sold most on itearly-on like the ones I listed above.) It sold so well because of the great games on it, and in turn developers had to keep pumping out similar types of games.

The Wii has sold without having a good library. Why? Because non-gamers are buying it in droves. Now developers will have to develop games that cater to the tastes of those people (as has been happening the last 8 months,) so for the Wii the drought will continue unless you like raising virtual puppies or training your brain with inane mini games.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Prepare for loads of "but guis, its all about personal preference :cry:" damage control. i mean like, massive amounts.

look at the second post :lol:

goodlay

Games are all about personal preference :|

system wars myth: Wii has a poor library :|nintendo-4life

Let's compare:

Resident Evil 4..............9.1

WarioWare....................9.1

Yep, you're right. A recycled GC game and another iteration of the mindless mini-game fest that is WarioWare totally constitutes a killer library.

The PS2 Japanese launch was in March 2000, so these numbers are from when the developers had the resources for well over a year, either way they had more time then wii devloper's have had so far.MronoC

Not the NA developers, which is precisely why I didn't include the AAA/AA Japan titles.

And it's not like developers get the "resources" when a system officially launches. Devs get Dev Kits well in advance for all systems.

wow amagine how good the sales would be if we had that many AAA's :lol: thatll make fanboys shiver.....

besides most of those games are 3rd party...... i shot your thread down

wow amagine how good the sales would be if we had that many AAA's :lol: thatll make fanboys shiver.....

besides most of those games are 3rd party...... i shot your thread down

sodafountan

And? The Wii has plenty of 3rd party games, they're just made for the non-gaming audience, that's my point. That's why the library is so horrid.One of the Wii's only two AA titles is a 3rd party game (A GC rehash, guess that;s why developing for the Wii is so much cheaper.)

The sort of third party games the Wii has now are the types it will receive in the future (games that try to emulate the financial success and cheap budget costs of Wii Sports.)

[QUOTE="sodafountan"]

wow amagine how good the sales would be if we had that many AAA's :lol: thatll make fanboys shiver.....

besides most of those games are 3rd party...... i shot your thread down

BloatWare

And? The Wii has plenty of 3rd party games, they're just made for the non-gaming audience, that's my point. That's why the library is so horrid.One of the Wii's only two AA titles is a 3rd party game (A GC rehash, guess that;s why developing for the Wii is so much cheaper.)

The sort of third party games the Wii has now are the types it will receive in the future (games that try to emulate the financial success and cheap budget costs of Wii Sports.)

I love system wars, apparently a good amount of people on here can predict the future.

[QUOTE="BloatWare"][QUOTE="sodafountan"]

wow amagine how good the sales would be if we had that many AAA's :lol: thatll make fanboys shiver.....

besides most of those games are 3rd party...... i shot your thread down

goodlay

And? The Wii has plenty of 3rd party games, they're just made for the non-gaming audience, that's my point. That's why the library is so horrid.One of the Wii's only two AA titles is a 3rd party game (A GC rehash, guess that;s why developing for the Wii is so much cheaper.)

The sort of third party games the Wii has now are the types it will receive in the future (games that try to emulate the financial success and cheap budget costs of Wii Sports.)

I love system wars, apparently a good amount of people on here can predict the future.

60% of the time my crystal ball works every time.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]um.... why are you only mentioning the wii? The ps2 also has a better library than ps3 and 360 during that time. Plus, the ps2 was the successor to the playstation so it got alot of support. the wii is the successor to the gamecube so none of the devs knew it was gonna sell that good.BloatWare

Yes, the developers that developed games for the PS2 had to cater to its audience. Its audience were those that liked traditional, in-depth games (as evidenced by the games it received and sold most on itearly-on like the ones I listed above.) It sold so well because of the great games on it, and in turn developers had to keep pumping out similar types of games.

The Wii has sold without having a good library. Why? Because non-gamers are buying it in droves. Now developers will have to develop games that cater to the tastes of those people (as has been happening the last 8 months,) so for the Wii the drought will continue unless you like raising virtual puppies or training your brain with inane mini games.

[QUOTE="MronoC"]The PS2 Japanese launch was in March 2000, so these numbers are from when the developers had the resources for well over a year, either way they had more time then wii devloper's have had so far.BloatWare

Not the NA developers, which is precisely why I didn't include the AAA/AA Japan titles.

And it's not like developers get the "resources" when a system officially launches. Devs get Dev Kits well in advance for all systems.

[QUOTE="BloatWare"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]um.... why are you only mentioning the wii? The ps2 also has a better library than ps3 and 360 during that time. Plus, the ps2 was the successor to the playstation so it got alot of support. the wii is the successor to the gamecube so none of the devs knew it was gonna sell that good.Silenthps

Yes, the developers that developed games for the PS2 had to cater to its audience. Its audience were those that liked traditional, in-depth games (as evidenced by the games it received and sold most on itearly-on like the ones I listed above.) It sold so well because of the great games on it, and in turn developers had to keep pumping out similar types of games.

The Wii has sold without having a good library. Why? Because non-gamers are buying it in droves. Now developers will have to develop games that cater to the tastes of those people (as has been happening the last 8 months,) so for the Wii the drought will continue unless you like raising virtual puppies or training your brain with inane mini games.

I can't keep half these terms straight? By "Casuals" do you mean the typical GTA/Halo crowd? In that case, it did. Those people had been playing videogames just as long as the "hardcore" though.

The Wii appeals to NON GAMERS, people who never played games (your mother, your grandmother, your sister, etc.) before the Wii. "Brain Training"types of gamesaren't casual games.... I don't even know what the Hell it is.... and developers are going to have to cater to the non-gaming crowd with those sorts of non-games. A glorified bowling/dog raising/cooking/etc. game is not the sort of "casual" game that drove the success of the PS2, but it will surely (and has been) driving the success of the Wii.

SSX............................................ SSX Blur

Madden NFL 2001..........................Madden 07

Tekken Tag Tournament............... none

FIFA 2001.....................................none

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................Rayman Raving Rabbids (different style... I know)

Twisted Metal Black....................... none

NBA Steet.................................... none

GT3: A-Spec................................ none

none.......................................... Zelda TP

none.......................................... Super Paper Mario

none.......................................... Wario Ware

none.......................................... RE4

they are actually very similar. The scores are higher on the PS2 versions because the advancements in generations was much larger gameplay wise than this time. SSX blur is a Wii exclusive, Madden 08 Wii is the best version, and 2 PS2 AAA's (where the Wii has a none) are sport titles.

GT3, and Tekken Tag are also the only real standouts among the packs just like Paper Mario and Zelda TP are for the Wii. Though I believe that the PS2 was doing better than the Wii at this point, they are so similar as of now that it is hard to determine.

it doesnt matter how high a score a game gets, as long as the individual enjoys it enough to play it. ex: mario.SoUtHhOlLiZ

PS2:................................................................Wii:

SSX............................................ SSX Blur

Madden NFL 2001..........................Madden 07

Tekken Tag Tournament............... none

FIFA 2001.....................................none

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................Rayman Raving Rabbids (different style... I know)

Twisted Metal Black....................... none

NBA Steet.................................... none

GT3: A-Spec................................ none

none.......................................... Zelda TP

none.......................................... Super Paper Mario

none.......................................... Wario Ware

they are actually very similar. The scores are higher on the PS2 versions because the advancements in generations was much larger gameplay wise than this time. SSX blur is a Wii exclusive, Madden 08 Wii is the best version, and 2 PS2 AAA's (where the Wii has a none) are sport titles.

GT3, and Tekken Tag are also the only real standouts among the packs just like Paper Mario and Zelda TP are for the Wii. Though I believe that the PS2 was doing better than the Wii at this point, they are so similar as of now that it is hard to determine.

kansasdude2009

Dude, I could go down the list of extremely high AA's for the PS2 until dawn, there's a reason I didn't list them (like you did with the Wii titles.)

And games like Raving Rabbids and blur were nowhere near as good as their PS2 counterparts were back in the day.

[QUOTE="kansasdude2009"]PS2:................................................................Wii:

SSX............................................ SSX Blur

Madden NFL 2001..........................Madden 07

Tekken Tag Tournament............... none

FIFA 2001.....................................none

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................Rayman Raving Rabbids (different style... I know)

Twisted Metal Black....................... none

NBA Steet.................................... none

GT3: A-Spec................................ none

none.......................................... Zelda TP

none.......................................... Super Paper Mario

none.......................................... Wario Ware

they are actually very similar. The scores are higher on the PS2 versions because the advancements in generations was much larger gameplay wise than this time. SSX blur is a Wii exclusive, Madden 08 Wii is the best version, and 2 PS2 AAA's (where the Wii has a none) are sport titles.

GT3, and Tekken Tag are also the only real standouts among the packs just like Paper Mario and Zelda TP are for the Wii. Though I believe that the PS2 was doing better than the Wii at this point, they are so similar as of now that it is hard to determine.

BloatWare

Dude, I could go down the list of extremely high AA's for the PS2 until dawn, there's a reason I didn't list them (like you did with the Wii titles.)

And games like Raving Rabbids and blur were nowhere near as good as their PS2 counterparts were back in the day.

I was making a comparison to support on good software. I realize that the Zelda TP (recieved AAA most everywhere else) and SPM both recieved AA scores at gamespot. This is why I said that I think the PS2 was doing better at this point :|

I agree with you on Rayman, but I found SSX Blur to be a TON more fun on Wii than using a traditional controller. I also think that Zelda TP is the greatest game next gen has brought us so far, and it was also on the gamecube :| But we cant really argue opinions now can we...

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="BloatWare"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]um.... why are you only mentioning the wii? The ps2 also has a better library than ps3 and 360 during that time. Plus, the ps2 was the successor to the playstation so it got alot of support. the wii is the successor to the gamecube so none of the devs knew it was gonna sell that good.BloatWare

Yes, the developers that developed games for the PS2 had to cater to its audience. Its audience were those that liked traditional, in-depth games (as evidenced by the games it received and sold most on itearly-on like the ones I listed above.) It sold so well because of the great games on it, and in turn developers had to keep pumping out similar types of games.

The Wii has sold without having a good library. Why? Because non-gamers are buying it in droves. Now developers will have to develop games that cater to the tastes of those people (as has been happening the last 8 months,) so for the Wii the drought will continue unless you like raising virtual puppies or training your brain with inane mini games.

I can't keep half these terms straight? By "Casuals" do you mean the typical GTA/Halo crowd? In that case, it did. Those people had been playing videogames just as long as the "hardcore" though.

The Wii appeals to NON GAMERS, people who never played games (your mother, your grandmother, your sister, etc.) before the Wii. "Brain Training"types of gamesaren't casual games.... I don't even know what the Hell it is.... and developers are going to have to cater to the non-gaming crowd with those sorts of non-games. A glorified bowling/dog raising/cooking/etc. game is not the sort of "casual" game that drove the success of the PS2, but it will surely (and has been) driving the success of the Wii.

GT3, and Tekken Tag are also the only real standouts among the packs

kansasdude2009

That's what I said too. When you look back, those were the only 2 games that were the must play titles outside of a lot of sports games. After Tekken 3, everyone was hyped for Tag. Those 2 games were a peak period for the series. And GT is GT.

Oni, remember that game? Everyone was hyped for that trash for some reason.

Yeah, PS2 was awesome.

PS3 is having a very slow start but I can see things looking up with the strong lineup for late 2007 and pretty much all of 2008.

Yeah, PS2 was awesome.

PS3 is having a very slow start but I can see things looking up with the strong lineup for late 2007 and pretty much all of 2008.

the-very-best

The PS3 has Oblivion, Rainbow 6: Vegas, Ninja Gaiden Sigma,and The Darkness. All of these games were claimed as "amazing" and "ownage" to the cows, and now that cows have them, the new bandwagon is either "It's an old game, I'm done playing it," or "It's overrated now." (excluding The Darkness, but I've seen lemmings praise the game on the 360 and slam it on the PS3)

Besides, the PS3 has 3 AAA games now, and 18 AA games, and if you exclude Tekken 5 because it's an old PS2 game, that is 17 AA games.

In countless threads I've read that "even though the PS2 dominated last generation its library was very poor early on much like the Wii's.... so the Wii will get the same amount of good-game-action seeing as it has the sales just like the PS2 had..."

Not true, the PS2 sold so much because its library was so strong right out of the gate. Its games drove its sales.

The PS2 launched in late October 2000 here in the US, the Wii in November 2006 here.

Here are the AAA PS2 games available into very early July of the year following launch (the same point the Wii is at right now: )

Game:.......................................Rating:

SSX.............................................9.4

Madden NFL 2001..........................9.1

Tekken Tag Tournament............... 9.4

FIFA 2001.....................................9.0

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................9.1

Twisted Metal Black....................... 9.5

NBA Steet.................................... 9.3

GT3: A-Spec................................ 9.4

That's just the AAA's the PS2 had in that window.... 8 of them. It was a very good library - much better than the Wii's current one. It also had countless other AA's in that window (extremely good ones too... Onimusha, Timesplitters, DOA2, etc. Could go on forever.) This isn't including imports either (that would add another AAA,) just the games released in the North American market.

For the first time in history the system with the worst (and that's an understatement) library is reaping the majority of the sales.

Is this what happens when you design a system for non-gamers? Looks like it. I guess Wii shouldn't be surprised.

BloatWare

Myth you can't compare the Wii to the PS2, or the PS2 to the PS3.. The PS2 was released by it self months before competition.. This was after the wildly popular and history making PS1. Lets not forget the Xbox was a under the radar console that many people were not as excited for as the Nintendo or the PS2..

The PS2 had a huge backing from numerous devs due to how wildly popularthe ps1was beating out the N64 by a huge margin.

The PS3 can NOT be compared to this what so ever. It was released the latest with the Xbox360 very succesfful with devs fully backing their success.. While at the same time the Wii being released.. Sony never really fought such stiff opostion during the release of a system of theirs..

I also find it funny as hell that you some how think the Wii is very comparable to the PS2.. I think this very unfair. Firstly Nintendo was recovering from the Gamecube which did pretty bad compared to the other two systems..

Secondly, the Wii was using a completely experimental technology that fundamentally changes the devs workings in games because they not only have to work with unique hardware profile but now a completely new interface never encountered before.

Thirdly, Wii made a huge risk in using a experimental technology while not going the tried and proven path of making a similar console with just more hardware in it..

It is pretty simple when you look at these reasons why the Wii can not be compared to the PS2.. And also imo it only strengthens the idea that the Wii is succeeding.. If its already this crazy popular with this relativly few games, just wait for the numerous devs who originally were going to avoid the Wii are now making exclusives for it because its a gold mine.

This is my opinion and I am by no means a fan boy.. I love my PS2, Wii, PC, and my friends Xbox 360 at times is great.

Actually, I think that the all the good PS3 games go underlooked just due to bandwagon here. Everyone is jumping on the "Sony sucks" team.

The PS3 has Oblivion, Rainbow 6: Vegas, Ninja Gaiden Sigma,and The Darkness. All of these games were claimed as "amazing" and "ownage" to the cows, and now that cows have them, the new bandwagon is either "It's an old game, I'm done playing it," or "It's overrated now." (excluding The Darkness, but I've seen lemmings praise the game on the 360 and slam it on the PS3)

Besides, the PS3 has 3 AAA games now, and 18 AA games, and if you exclude Tekken 5 because it's an old PS2 game, that is 17 AA games.

Bluestorm-Kalas

I think they're going underlooked cause of the price. Doesn't seem like good value for money just yet especially when the 360 has most of those AAAs, besides NGS I believe.

That's why I think PS3 will be looked at in a different light in late 2007, and 2008, because many of the AA/AAA games will be exclusive. Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Haze, MGSIV, FFXIII, GT5, WKS etc are all pretty big names atm and are gathering a lot of hype, and will probably get AA or above in most sites.

In countless threads I've read that "even though the PS2 dominated last generation its library was very poor early on much like the Wii's.... so the Wii will get the same amount of good-game-action seeing as it has the sales just like the PS2 had..."

Not true, the PS2 sold so much because its library was so strong right out of the gate. Its games drove its sales.

The PS2 launched in late October 2000 here in the US, the Wii in November 2006 here.

Here are the AAA PS2 games available into very early July of the year following launch (the same point the Wii is at right now: )

Game:.......................................Rating:

SSX.............................................9.4

Madden NFL 2001..........................9.1

Tekken Tag Tournament............... 9.4

FIFA 2001.....................................9.0

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................9.1

Twisted Metal Black....................... 9.5

NBA Steet.................................... 9.3

GT3: A-Spec................................ 9.4

That's just the AAA's the PS2 had in that window.... 8 of them. It was a very good library - much better than the Wii's current one. It also had countless other AA's in that window (extremely good ones too... Onimusha, Timesplitters, DOA2, etc. Could go on forever.) This isn't including imports either (that would add another AAA,) just the games released in the North American market.

For the first time in history the system with the worst (and that's an understatement) library is reaping the majority of the sales.

Is this what happens when you design a system for non-gamers? Looks like it. I guess Wii shouldn't be surprised.

BloatWare

Unfortunately, your comparison doesn't work because you are comparing apples with oranges. You are not comparing the same dev time. The truth is, the PS2 was released in the states 6 months later (after Japan). That means the dev kits were already available. You are better off comparing the first 6 months of the PS2 in the U.S. to 1 year of the Wii.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying the Wii library is any better.

Wow, looks like PS2 > Every next-gen game library.

Everyone losses.

In countless threads I've read that "even though the PS2 dominated last generation its library was very poor early on much like the Wii's.... so the Wii will get the same amount of good-game-action seeing as it has the sales just like the PS2 had..."

Not true, the PS2 sold so much because its library was so strong right out of the gate. Its games drove its sales.

The PS2 launched in late October 2000 here in the US, the Wii in November 2006 here.

Here are the AAA PS2 games available into very early July of the year following launch (the same point the Wii is at right now: )

Game:.......................................Rating:

SSX.............................................9.4

Madden NFL 2001..........................9.1

Tekken Tag Tournament............... 9.4

FIFA 2001.....................................9.0

Rayman 2 Revolution.....................9.1

Twisted Metal Black....................... 9.5

NBA Steet.................................... 9.3

GT3: A-Spec................................ 9.4

That's just the AAA's the PS2 had in that window.... 8 of them. It was a very good library - much better than the Wii's current one. It also had countless other AA's in that window (extremely good ones too... Onimusha, Timesplitters, DOA2, etc. Could go on forever.) This isn't including imports either (that would add another AAA,) just the games released in the North American market.

For the first time in history the system with the worst (and that's an understatement) library is reaping the majority of the sales.

Is this what happens when you design a system for non-gamers? Looks like it. I guess Wii shouldn't be surprised.

BloatWare

But you left out all the overhyped pieces of crap that came out during that time too, like Oni and the Bouncer, and the games that scored well but were just boring and unoriginal like ATV. I remember only playing Madden and SSX regularly on my PS2 for most of the first year it was out until GT3 was released. The Wii's following a pretty close pattern so far. I'm regularly playing Zelda and SSX, and Metroid Prime 3 will be out in late August. The Wii will be fine.