The 360 launched as a half next gen console...

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

yet 360 has best graphics, games, and onlineImagineGamer

Everyone hates the Core for some reason, but I think it's great for people who want it. It's barely more expensive than the Wii, but has a ton of hardware advancements over it. The core is a basic set for people who don't care about wireless controllers, HD movies, and tons of storage space. It plays 360 games EXACTLY like an Elite.

It is unfortunate that HDDs aren't standard to the 360. But it's also hard to tell how much could be gained by having one. I think what the Core has done outweighs the minor graphical improvements that could be achieved with caching on an HDD.

Microsoft should never have used HD-DVD to being with. They were smart by staying out of this ridiculous battle. Sony had no choice because they are financially invested in the success of the format. Microsoft could care less and saved on costs by not using HD-DVD. In the few cases where devs wish they had more room, compression or disc swapping are definitely not horrible options.

I use my wired controller more than my wireless one.

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

amtentori

You mention how public appeal and perception is key..What positive spotlight has Sony received prior to this month? None..You talk about how the lack of fully Wireless controllers, No standard HDD and use of the DVD format is hurting the 360 yet the Wii has the sales and positive perception because of all the things.

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

amtentori

Blu Ray is overrated. Mass Effect will be the largest game in next gen and it is on dvd9. The cost of bluray is just not worth the marginal improvment of the gaming aspect.

I do agree core is garbage, they should sell it at $199 if they really were serious about it.

[QUOTE="ImagineGamer"]yet 360 has best graphics, games, and onlinejack_russel

yea, the core package was garbage. I don't know why they even bothered.jack_russel

Debatable :|

My guess would be we wouldn't have to listen to the jet engine dvd drive constantly streaming data had every model come with a harddrive.

yet 360 has best graphics, games, and onlineImagineGamer

Graphics? No.

The other two....well I would hope so after getting a year headstart. :|

yet 360 has best graphics, games, and onlineImagineGamer

I don't agree with the best graphics part... But I agree with the games and online.

I agree it's not much of a next gen console compared to the PS3. Absolutely agree. And I don't even own a PS3.

However, at this point and at least for the rest of 2007 it is by far the best console out there to won if you get a console for gaming. It has the most and the best games. Both out now and coming up for the rest of 2007. For the rest, we'll have to see.

[QUOTE="amtentori"]

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

Pro_wrestler

You mention how public appeal and perception is key..What positive spotlight has Sony received prior to this month? None..You talk about how the lack of fully Wireless controllers, No standard HDD and use of the DVD format is hurting the 360 yet the Wii has the sales and positive perception because of all the things.

I never said the ps3's public perception is bad.

The wii has wireless controllers.

Although the wii does not have standard hdd, it doesnt require memory cards like the core does. games on the wii will probably never need a hd instalation, so its not that big of a deal. The problem with no standard hdd is that the premium has it, while the core doesnt....the wii is convenient.. the core is not convienient for consumers nor developers.

The wiis public perception is really good.

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="amtentori"]

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

amtentori

You mention how public appeal and perception is key..What positive spotlight has Sony received prior to this month? None..You talk about how the lack of fully Wireless controllers, No standard HDD and use of the DVD format is hurting the 360 yet the Wii has the sales and positive perception because of all the things.

I never said the ps3's public perception is bad.

The wii has wireless controllers.

Although the wii does not have standard hdd, it doesnt require memory cards like the core does. games on the wii will probably never need a hd instalation, so its not that big of a deal. The problem with no standard hdd is that the premium has it, while the core doesnt....the wii is convenient.. the core is not convienient for consumers nor developers.

The wiis public perception is really good.

I agree the core was a bad idea. But seriously, who buys the core anyway?

Thats why the core should have never existed.... pain for devs, confusing for customers......

Im not even sure if the elite was such a good idea... it just makes the 360 as a whole seem more expensive and the premium less full fledged even though the premium is fine...

[QUOTE="Pro_wrestler"][QUOTE="amtentori"]

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

amtentori

You mention how public appeal and perception is key..What positive spotlight has Sony received prior to this month? None..You talk about how the lack of fully Wireless controllers, No standard HDD and use of the DVD format is hurting the 360 yet the Wii has the sales and positive perception because of all the things.

I never said the ps3's public perception is bad.

The wii has wireless controllers.

Although the wii does not have standard hdd, it doesnt require memory cards like the core does. games on the wii will probably never need a hd instalation, so its not that big of a deal. The problem with no standard hdd is that the premium has it, while the core doesnt....the wii is convenient.. the core is not convienient for consumers nor developers.

The wiis public perception is really good.

Sure it has Wireless controllers..but it also supports wired ones as does the 360. Explain to me how its no convienent to the dev or consumer? The consumer will buy it because they want it..the developer will figure out how to work around this "problem" because they don't have a choice if they want to continue developing games on 360. By your thinking both GCN and PS2 where held back because of lack of hard drives..Xbox had a standard HDD yet no one used it and we all know who the victor was last gen. You don't need a HDD to play its games and as long as that is a reality, the core will always be a good choice for those who don't want to shell out the extra $100.

I actually agree. Having no next-gen format and not being able to count on every 360 having an HDD, will hurt it in the end.BioShockOwnz

I do not believe in that at all. I think that the core system is for a casual gamer that can simply pick up a memory unit to save their games. Most people probably wont buy the core or haven't as is.To sit here, and claim that MS is going to fail in the end because they do not have an unproven media such as thePS3 is pretty ignorant. First off their is no proof at all that the blu-ray disc is going to be a success. Secondly there is no proof that the HD-DVD is going to be either. So I think by Microsoft not choosing to pick one of the other is perfect, because then its not a crap shoot for them. They made a decision to use a media that is pretty much a standard at this point, and it also made it eaiser on the consumer so they are not made to buy a movie because its blu-ray. Also they can still see every movie they want, and not have to worry if it is going to come out on HD or blu-ray.

We all know the 360 is powerful, HD, and has great games... but I think that it launched without going all out nextgen hurt it in the long run.

Main point: the core should have never existed. Maybe the 360 would have a lower install base, but I believe the 360 would have more momentum right now.

Some people might start viewing the 360 as not the new thing anymore, and will opt for the ps3 or the wii. 360 has the games, but hype and public perception are what drives sales in this industry.

Last gen aspects of the 360 that might hurt it.(some are only for the core, but having one standard unit would be so much better)

-wired controllers.....

-no standard hdd

-dvd format

it is interesting to see that the ps3 and 360 have completely different approaches.. the ps3 trying to be future proof, while the 360 trying to be more of a bridge btw the generations. We'll have to see which one wins out in the end. btw my 360 is currently in repairs :P andI dont plan on ever buyng a ps3. I also have a wii and a ds.

amtentori

I agree, that statement isn't garbage. M$ try and cover it up with add-ons...:roll:. however, what would of made a better thread was how last gen wii is ;).

Last time I check you could still play Gears Of War (which is still one of the best looking games anywhere) with The Core (the one with no HDD). So I disagree with you saying that the 360 launched as a half next gen console. Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and wifi doesn't necessarily equals to next gen in gaming. Processing and making games look amazing equals next gen and the 360 already proved that, even without the hard drive.

I agree that the Core system doesn't make much sense. MS just made too many things optional. I personally don't see the 360 lasting more than2 or3 more years. I'd be surprised if there wasn't another Xbox out by then, or even sooner.

its funny how lemmings blindly disagree and cows blindly agree.... it is not as simple as wrong or right.... It is something fairly complex that no one can know for sure.

Something I would definitely defend is that the wii is infact the most nextgen console in the eyes of the casual consumer. The ps3 is seen as better graphics than ps2 and "bluetooth". the xbox 360 is seen as a powerful console good for sports games and online. the wii is seen as something new.

When I bought the gamecube, my parents asked: so what is new about this one. I answered look at the graphics... they are so much better... right... they answered. When I bought the wii .... they didnt even ask...it is intrinsically different because of the control. They didnt even comment on the graphics.

Last time I check you could still play Gears Of War (which is still one of the best looking games anywhere) with The Core (the one with no HDD). So I disagree with you saying that the 360 launched as a half next gen console. Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and wifi doesn't necessarily equals to next gen in gaming. Processing and making games look amazing equals next gen and the 360 already proved that, even without the hard drive.

ReverseCycology

You are not getting my point. It is not the individual features that determine the perception of a console... wii for example has no high storage format, hdd, hd, etc. but it is seen as new. I believe the 360 as a whole is not percieved as completely "new".

Wired controllers are better than wireless for 360/PS3, anyway. They're cheaper, they can actually be used at large scale LANs (Did you know you can only have 32 or 64 wireless 360 controllers within a certain distance of each other?), and they tend to be higher quality than wireless counterparts. I have two wired controllers and two wireless for 360, and the wired ones always get picked up first.

I could care less about the "next gen" formatting, 400 was enough of a stretch anyway.

The standard HDD I agree with. The xbox1 had one: why doesn't 360?

[QUOTE="jack_russel"][QUOTE="ImagineGamer"]yet 360 has best graphics, games, and onlinePro_wrestler

yea, the core package was garbage. I don't know why they even bothered.jack_russel

Debatable :|

yes, both points are totally debatable.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]I actually agree. Having no next-gen format and not being able to count on every 360 having an HDD, will hurt it in the end.xscrapzx

I do not believe in that at all. I think that the core system is for a casual gamer that can simply pick up a memory unit to save their games. Most people probably wont buy the core or haven't as is.To sit here, and claim that MS is going to fail in the end because they do not have an unproven media such as thePS3 is pretty ignorant. First off their is no proof at all that the blu-ray disc is going to be a success. Secondly there is no proof that the HD-DVD is going to be either. So I think by Microsoft not choosing to pick one of the other is perfect, because then its not a crap shoot for them. They made a decision to use a media that is pretty much a standard at this point, and it also made it eaiser on the consumer so they are not made to buy a movie because its blu-ray. Also they can still see every movie they want, and not have to worry if it is going to come out on HD or blu-ray.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]I actually agree. Having no next-gen format and not being able to count on every 360 having an HDD, will hurt it in the end.xscrapzx

I do not believe in that at all. I think that the core system is for a casual gamer that can simply pick up a memory unit to save their games. Most people probably wont buy the core or haven't as is.To sit here, and claim that MS is going to fail in the end because they do not have an unproven media such as thePS3 is pretty ignorant. First off their is no proof at all that the blu-ray disc is going to be a success. Secondly there is no proof that the HD-DVD is going to be either. So I think by Microsoft not choosing to pick one of the other is perfect, because then its not a crap shoot for them. They made a decision to use a media that is pretty much a standard at this point, and it also made it eaiser on the consumer so they are not made to buy a movie because its blu-ray. Also they can still see every movie they want, and not have to worry if it is going to come out on HD or blu-ray.

It's about the developers, not the gamers. Blu-ray is just not for movies, it's for games too. Bizarre is having problems with PGR4, and they won't be able to develop the game they wanted to since they are tied down to DVD-9. If MS would have went with a next-gen format, then they wouldn't be having these issues, and this will prove to be true over the next 1-2 years.

Also, since they don't have a next-gen format, then they could have used the HDD to cache data, but they can't, because MS released the Core, and they can't count on every gamer to have a HDD.

MS really messed up with the decision to not have the HDD standard. It's not just for game saves or downloads, it can help make the games your playing run better, and more.