The Elder Scrolls Online - Petition

  • 51 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for PAL360
PAL360

30574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

As you probably know, Bethesda announced that ESO will have a subscription based business model. Many, like me, won't be able to afford a monthly fee just for one game, especially if you will also be paying for the PS4 or X1 online service.

If you are a Elder Scrolls fan, and want this game to be a one time buy, then help the case and sign these petitions:

https://www.change.org/petitions/zenimax-studios-to-remove-the-subscription-fee-for-elder-scrolls-online

http://www.change.org/petitions/bethesda-the-elder-scrolls-online-change-the-business-model-from-subscription-based-to-one-time-purchase

https://www.change.org/petitions/the-elder-scrolls-online-change-subscription-based-to-single-payment-buy-to-play-format

Sorry if off-topic.

Avatar image for snugenz_irl
snugenz_irl

31

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#2 snugenz_irl
Member since 2013 • 31 Posts

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

I'm glad it's P2P and the only people that are complaining have probably never played an MMO in their life.

Avatar image for PAL360
PAL360

30574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

I'm surprised you guys are ok with paying $180 per year just to play one game!

Very few MMOs, these days, have a subscription model, and the ones that did (SW: The Old Republic?), ended up changing it. The best solution is selling the game for a normal price, and then add some minor microtransactions, like in Guild Wars 2.

Avatar image for Truth_Hurts_U
Truth_Hurts_U

9703

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#5 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts

While I prefer the P2P model. You have to have a really good game for that to work.

I watched some of the leaked gameplay and the game needs a lot more polish.

Avatar image for GhoX
GhoX

6267

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 0

#6 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@PAL360 said:

I'm surprised you guys are ok with paying $180 per year just to play one game lol

Very few MMOs, these days, have a subscription model, and the ones that did (SW: The Old Republic?), ended up changing it. The best solution is selling the game for a normal price, and then add some minor microtransactions, like in Guild Wars 2.

You are probably happy paying $60 for a console game that offers little replay value whereas I'm fine paying a monthly sub and getting 100's of hours a month of value. FF14 ARR is the best mmo out right now and it has a sub. Also it will probably cost around $120 a year for ESO and they always give you free 30 days for you to make your mind up whether or not it's worth it

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8288

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#8 Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8288 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

I'm glad it's P2P and the only people that are complaining have probably never played an MMO in their life.

What load of BS.

Avatar image for inggrish
inggrish

10503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#9 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

I hope it does become one time payment. I think more likely though would be them moving to free to play :(

Avatar image for PAL360
PAL360

30574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 0

#10 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@PAL360 said:

I'm surprised you guys are ok with paying $180 per year just to play one game lol

Very few MMOs, these days, have a subscription model, and the ones that did (SW: The Old Republic?), ended up changing it. The best solution is selling the game for a normal price, and then add some minor microtransactions, like in Guild Wars 2.

You are probably happy paying $60 for a console game that offers little replay value whereas I'm fine paying a monthly sub and getting 100's of hours a month of value. FF14 ARR is the best mmo out right now and it has a sub. Also it will probably cost around $120 a year for ESO and they always give you free 30 days for you to make your mind up whether or not it's worth it

I don't even have 100 hous per month to play videogames, and even if i had, i wouldnt like to be stuck to just one game, just because i paid the subscription in that particular month. I want to purchase a game, and then be free to play one hour now or 100 hous in 6 months, if i want to.

And yep, i'm ok paying $60 for a game, as long as i play when i want, as much as i want.

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8288

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8288 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

How? Because you can pay for rune pages? lol

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

How? Because you can pay for rune pages? lol

If you are a casual player that only sticks to unranked then it's fine but if you want to experience the game properly then you will get screwed over the second you hit 30.

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8288

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#14 Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8288 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

How? Because you can pay for rune pages? lol

If you are a casual player that only sticks to unranked then it's fine but if you want to experience the game properly then you will get screwed over the second you hit 30.

Please elaborate. I am really curious how people pay 2 win in LoL according to you.

Avatar image for GhoX
GhoX

6267

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 0

#15 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@PAL360 said:

I'm surprised you guys are ok with paying $180 per year just to play one game lol

Very few MMOs, these days, have a subscription model, and the ones that did (SW: The Old Republic?), ended up changing it. The best solution is selling the game for a normal price, and then add some minor microtransactions, like in Guild Wars 2.

You are probably happy paying $60 for a console game that offers little replay value whereas I'm fine paying a monthly sub and getting 100's of hours a month of value. FF14 ARR is the best mmo out right now and it has a sub. Also it will probably cost around $120 a year for ESO and they always give you free 30 days for you to make your mind up whether or not it's worth it

A very good MMO isn't necessarily a commercially viable MMO, and a non-commercially viable MMO will die regardless of how good it is in terms of quality. FF14 ARR has just launched, so whether its subscription count of 1 million stays will only be revealed by time. That's still miles away from WoW's dwindling 7.7m. On the other hand F2P games like LoL and TF2 have shown that a F2P model can lead to the same if not greater sucesses.

From a conceptual point of view, a gamer without financial worries should enjoy a subscription model more than a F2P model. Why is that? A subscription model is by nature fairer. Although Pay2Win F2P games scarcely exist nowadays, even the slightest cosmetic or convenience item would be perceived as unfairness in comparison to subscription model. Of course, in theory the only model that's even fairer than subscription model is pure charity - no game fee, no subscription fee, no real money store, nothing. Something like that can exist only in theory, yet it shows that the greater the fairness, the less commercially viable the model is. We have pure charity at one extreme, Pay 2 Win at another. Subscription and regular F2P are somewhere in-between.

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

How? Because you can pay for rune pages? lol

If you are a casual player that only sticks to unranked then it's fine but if you want to experience the game properly then you will get screwed over the second you hit 30.

Please elaborate. I am really curious how people pay 2 win in LoL according to you.

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8288

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8288 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@GhoX said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

It's never that binary. There are plenty of F2P games that are not Pay 2 Win. In fact, Pay 2 Win games belong to a near-extinct minority outside China and Korea.

The only MMO subscription model worked well for is WoW. There isn't a second game that's nearly as successful. The subscription model is flawed, and success as a result of the subscription model is an abnormality instead of the norm.

F2P on the other hand can lead to great successes, whether it's pure F2P like League of Legends, or single purchase F2P like Guild Wars 2. The emphasis, of course, is on can. If the game sucks, or if the F2P model sucks, the game has plenty of room to fail in.

League of Legends is pay to win if you really think about it

How? Because you can pay for rune pages? lol

If you are a casual player that only sticks to unranked then it's fine but if you want to experience the game properly then you will get screwed over the second you hit 30.

Please elaborate. I am really curious how people pay 2 win in LoL according to you.

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

Avatar image for GhoX
GhoX

6267

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 0

#18 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Avatar image for silversix_
silversix_

26347

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

no need any petitions, we're in 2013, game comes out in 2014... It will release with a monthly fee and the thing will be dropped in ~3months because no1 is willing to pay for this. I never payed nor will pay a monthly fee in any game ever. Why should anyone cares tho? ESO looks so damn bad.

Avatar image for Sollet
Sollet

8288

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#20 Sollet
Member since 2003 • 8288 Posts

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

Avatar image for clyde46
clyde46

49061

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

Avatar image for Zaibach
Zaibach

13466

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#22 Zaibach
Member since 2007 • 13466 Posts

like many modern P2P models it will crash and burn, ask Star Wars TOR

Avatar image for k2theswiss
k2theswiss

16599

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 1

#23 k2theswiss
Member since 2007 • 16599 Posts

~NO, Game is a mmo....

What needs be removed is that stupid $60 price tag for the disc.... Right there is going stop me from ever trying it. Really i don't agree with that crap

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Avatar image for PAL360
PAL360

30574

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 31

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

@Zaibach said:

like many modern P2P models it will crash and burn, ask Star Wars TOR

Indeed. I wonder how long will it take for Bethesda to realise how stupid and unpopular that business model is. Hopefully before launch.

Avatar image for deactivated-660c2894dc19c
deactivated-660c2894dc19c

2190

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#26 deactivated-660c2894dc19c
Member since 2004 • 2190 Posts

@Zaibach said:

like many modern P2P models it will crash and burn, ask Star Wars TOR

TOR failed because it wasn't good enough MMO. I don't have a problem of paying monthly fees if I get constantly new content. One reason why I stopped playing Guild Wars 2.

I currently play FFXIV and I'm enjoying it. Though, crafting sucks, but I can live with that.

Avatar image for clyde46
clyde46

49061

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Nothing technical about it. If its given to you for free then its not pay2win. Yes its annoying that you have to grind it out but its not pay2win.

Avatar image for deactivated-660c2894dc19c
deactivated-660c2894dc19c

2190

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By deactivated-660c2894dc19c
Member since 2004 • 2190 Posts

@clyde46 said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Nothing technical about it. If its given to you for free then its not pay2win. Yes its annoying that you have to grind it out but its not pay2win.

It doesn't matter if you can grind them for free. If by using real money you can get stuff that will make you stronger faster, then it's pay2win.

Avatar image for clyde46
clyde46

49061

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

@Icarian said:

@clyde46 said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Nothing technical about it. If its given to you for free then its not pay2win. Yes its annoying that you have to grind it out but its not pay2win.

It doesn't matter if you can grind them for free. If by using real money you can get stuff that will make you stronger faster, then it's pay2win.

Wrong! Jesus Christ man, how dumb can you be?! If its free to everyone, its not Pay2Win!

Avatar image for Deevoshun
Deevoshun

868

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#30 Deevoshun
Member since 2003 • 868 Posts

I prefer subscription and glad it is a subscription game. I don't like having to pay for "packs" to unlock UI elements or talent trees, at the end of the day you end up paying more with micro-transactions if you want all the normal stuff a sub based MMO gives you.

Avatar image for deactivated-660c2894dc19c
deactivated-660c2894dc19c

2190

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By deactivated-660c2894dc19c
Member since 2004 • 2190 Posts

@clyde46:

@clyde46 said:

@Icarian said:

@clyde46 said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Nothing technical about it. If its given to you for free then its not pay2win. Yes its annoying that you have to grind it out but its not pay2win.

It doesn't matter if you can grind them for free. If by using real money you can get stuff that will make you stronger faster, then it's pay2win.

Wrong! Jesus Christ man, how dumb can you be?! If its free to everyone, its not Pay2Win!

Pay-2-Win is simply ANY situation where you can spend real world money to obtain an item/upgrade/etc in a game that gives an advantage, period, regardless of the item being available in the game or not. Cosmetic stuff is ok, but if you can buy any advantage it goes to Pay-2-win territory. Before starting to call people dumb, you probably should check the definition of win first.

Avatar image for scoots9
scoots9

3505

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 19

User Lists: 0

#32 scoots9
Member since 2006 • 3505 Posts

As an Elder Scrolls fan, I wouldn't touch TES:O with a 10 foot pole, subscription or not.

Avatar image for Jankarcop
Jankarcop

11058

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By Jankarcop
Member since 2011 • 11058 Posts

@scoots9 said:

As an Elder Scrolls fan, I wouldn't touch TES:O with a 10 foot pole, subscription or not.

It has more rpg/tes elements than Skyrim. Its closer to Morrowind than skyrim was.

A real TES fan would at the least try it considering those facts.

Avatar image for GhoX
GhoX

6267

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 0

#34  Edited By GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts

@Icarian said:

Pay-2-Win is simply ANY situation where you can spend real world money to obtain an item/upgrade/etc in a game that gives an advantage, period, regardless of the item being available in the game or not. Cosmetic stuff is ok, but if you can buy any advantage it goes to Pay-2-win territory. Before starting to call people dumb, you probably should check the definition of win first.

Just examine your own logic. Let's say you pay money for an advantage. Another player grinds and gets that same advantage via ingame means. Despite your pay, you do not gain an exclusive advantage. Ergo, no pay to win. Alternatively, let's use WoW as an example. Let's see you spend some money to buy a max level character. Sure, you will win against a level 1 who didn't buy a character, if that can be considered a win in any form or dimension, but you will get killed by other max level characters. You may have an easier or faster time getting an advantage, but it's not exclusive. It's reachable by other players, and those players would gain greater skills in the process.

As I see it there are five types of transactions in a F2P model (some of these transactions are seen in P2P games as well, namely WoW):

Cosmetic items: Almost purely fair. Pet shop in WoW, skins in LoL, hats in TF2.

Expansions: These purchases add a permanent upgrade to your game, and usually they do offer gameplay advantages over players who don't have the expansions. Examples include expansion packs or hero purchases in LoL. Indeed, buying champions is actually better than regular expansion packs - a) expansion packs usually raise level caps, making it nearly impossible for the lower level player to defeat the higher level player; b) the benefits of an expansion pack can be overriden by new expansion packs. In the case of buying heroes, it's a matter of different skill-sets and play-style instead of higher level, and new heroes won't make the purchased hero a worthless investment in the long run.

Mild convenience items: Either boost or direct purchase. The key is that these items do not offer a nearly insurmountable difference in required grind time, or they simply don't affect gameplay at all. Examples: experience boosters, but nothing crazily unfair like 300% exp; additional inventory slots; higher log-in priority, etc.

Strong convenience items: Although these items appear to be convenience-based at first glance, due to the design of the game it may be nearly impossible or highly implausible to obtain the same advantages through in-game means. The best example is Diablo 3. Although all the top items being sold on AH for cash are technically drops any player can acquire in-game, due to the design of a loot system that drives such good drops to astronomical probabilities it is no longer feasible to grind for good gear. As such, those good gear on AH are practically exclusive to people who are willing to pay, unless you are really lucky.

Exclusive advantage: These are pure and simple gameplay advantages that can only be acquired by paying money. For example, some F2P games have special PVP consumables or equipment that can only be bought with money.

The first three types of transactions have been commonly accepted as reasonable. Games that include elements of all three transactions include: Team Fortress 2, League of Legends, Warframe, Guild Wars 2, etc. The majority of F2P games belong in this category. It's the best of both worlds - not significantly unfair to non-paying players, yet financially viable enough to consistently add new content. Some purists may say that DoTA 2, which offers only cosmetic items, is even fairer. It is, but at the same time it earns the dev much less than other F2P games. If it doesn't have a backing as strong as Valve, the game would have a very hard time introducing any new content. Further, Valve is willing to earn smaller profits on its games just to attract people to Steam. It pays off when new Steam users buy games off Steam. Most other F2P game developers don't have such luxury.

The games commonly known as "Pay 2 Win" contain elements of the last two transactions. Aside from Diablo 3, there isn't a lot of notable examples. Most Pay 2 Win games are low profile short-term cash grabs or Facebook/iOS games. Don't group any F2P game that offers some convenience as a Pay 2 Win, since such a definition is purely laughable in the face of true Pay 2 Win games, that require you to rent the best gun for a month if you want to stay competitive, or pay money for revival if you want to continue raiding as part of a group.

Avatar image for treedoor
treedoor

7648

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 treedoor
Member since 2004 • 7648 Posts

The only MMOs in the last decade that were worth-playing had subscription fees.

That won't change anytime soon because the entire F2P model for MMOs is based on stripping a game of every good asset, and selling it back to the user at a premium.

Or you can do Guild Wars style, and make a game that nobody is playing after a month because there's no compelling end-game content because the devs don't have a stream of income coming in to continue developing upon the original game.

Signing this petition would be like saying you want a worse product.

Avatar image for redskins26rocs
redskins26rocs

2674

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By redskins26rocs
Member since 2009 • 2674 Posts

I would not mind a subscription if the game was not $60. If it is so great a free version, or even a price like $20-30 should easily be able to make a profit if the game can last months. I guess the only way it would not is that good old server problems, and since know one payed $85(?) they would not feel like they need to try and get their moneys worth.

Avatar image for HavocV3
HavocV3

8068

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38  Edited By HavocV3
Member since 2009 • 8068 Posts

The F2P model needs to die asap.

Avatar image for Basinboy
Basinboy

14560

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 19

User Lists: 0

#39 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14560 Posts

Online petitions are as useful as the paper they're printed on.

Yes, ironic, I know.

Avatar image for XxR3m1xInHDn3D
XxR3m1xInHDn3D

2365

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40  Edited By XxR3m1xInHDn3D
Member since 2013 • 2365 Posts

@GhoX said:

@Icarian said:

Pay-2-Win is simply ANY situation where you can spend real world money to obtain an item/upgrade/etc in a game that gives an advantage, period, regardless of the item being available in the game or not. Cosmetic stuff is ok, but if you can buy any advantage it goes to Pay-2-win territory. Before starting to call people dumb, you probably should check the definition of win first.

Just examine your own logic. Let's say you pay money for an advantage. Another player grinds and gets that same advantage via ingame means. Despite your pay, you do not gain an exclusive advantage. Ergo, no pay to win. Alternatively, let's use WoW as an example. Let's see you spend some money to buy a max level character. Sure, you will win against a level 1 who didn't buy a character, if that can be considered a win in any form or dimension, but you will get killed by other max level characters. You may have an easier or faster time getting an advantage, but it's not exclusive. It's reachable by other players, and those players would gain greater skills in the process.

As I see it there are five types of transactions in a F2P model (some of these transactions are seen in P2P games as well, namely WoW):

Cosmetic items: Almost purely fair. Pet shop in WoW, skins in LoL, hats in TF2.

Expansions: These purchases add a permanent upgrade to your game, and usually they do offer gameplay advantages over players who don't have the expansions. Examples include expansion packs or hero purchases in LoL. Indeed, buying champions is actually better than regular expansion packs - a) expansion packs usually raise level caps, making it nearly impossible for the lower level player to defeat the higher level player; b) the benefits of an expansion pack can be overriden by new expansion packs. In the case of buying heroes, it's a matter of different skill-sets and play-style instead of higher level, and new heroes won't make the purchased hero a worthless investment in the long run.

Mild convenience items: Either boost or direct purchase. The key is that these items do not offer a nearly insurmountable difference in required grind time, or they simply don't affect gameplay at all. Examples: experience boosters, but nothing crazily unfair like 300% exp; additional inventory slots; higher log-in priority, etc.

Strong convenience items: Although these items appear to be convenience-based at first glance, due to the design of the game it may be nearly impossible or highly implausible to obtain the same advantages through in-game means. The best example is Diablo 3. Although all the top items being sold on AH for cash are technically drops any player can acquire in-game, due to the design of a loot system that drives such good drops to astronomical probabilities it is no longer feasible to grind for good gear. As such, those good gear on AH are practically exclusive to people who are willing to pay, unless you are really lucky.

Exclusive advantage: These are pure and simple gameplay advantages that can only be acquired by paying money. For example, some F2P games have special PVP consumables or equipment that can only be bought with money.

The first three types of transactions have been commonly accepted as reasonable. Games that include elements of all three transactions include: Team Fortress 2, League of Legends, Warframe, Guild Wars 2, etc. The majority of F2P games belong in this category. It's the best of both worlds - not significantly unfair to non-paying players, yet financially viable enough to consistently add new content. Some purists may say that DoTA 2, which offers only cosmetic items, is even fairer. It is, but at the same time it earns the dev much less than other F2P games. If it doesn't have a backing as strong as Valve, the game would have a very hard time introducing any new content. Further, Valve is willing to earn smaller profits on its games just to attract people to Steam. It pays off when new Steam users buy games off Steam. Most other F2P game developers don't have such luxury.

The games commonly known as "Pay 2 Win" contain elements of the last two transactions. Aside from Diablo 3, there isn't a lot of notable examples. Most Pay 2 Win games are low profile short-term cash grabs or Facebook/iOS games. Don't group any F2P game that offers some convenience as a Pay 2 Win, since such a definition is purely laughable in the face of true Pay 2 Win games, that require you to rent the best gun for a month if you want to stay competitive, or pay money for revival if you want to continue raiding as part of a group.

I think we can all agree on the fact that Riot are extremely clever. You could spend 1000's of hours playing the game and still be at a huge disadvantage but no one seems to care. It's also pretty amazing how a lot of people have spent hundreds of dollars/pounds/euros on the game.

Avatar image for -Unreal-
-Unreal-

24650

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 1

#41 -Unreal-
Member since 2004 • 24650 Posts

I was about to ask you why you don't just buy it for PC, but then I remembered WoW is still around and it completely humiliatingly crushes any MMO that has come out during it's almost decade-long reign upon the MMO throne.

Avatar image for n00bkid
n00bkid

4163

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#42 n00bkid
Member since 2006 • 4163 Posts

Can't wait for this to turn into another free to play like so many others :)

Avatar image for clyde46
clyde46

49061

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

@Icarian said:

@clyde46:

@clyde46 said:

@Icarian said:

@clyde46 said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

@clyde46 said:

ITT : People don't understand what Pay2Win is.

@Sollet said:

@GhoX said:

@Sollet said:

@XxR3m1xInHDn3D said:

You will be at a distinct disadvantage if you have a small hero pool and 2 rune pages (with no runes) which you will have if you don't purchase riot points.

You buy heroes and runes with IP which you earn every time you play a game...

In other words, LoL is "Pay for Convenience". Just like Planetside 2, TF2, or even Guild Wars 2's microtransaction.

"Pay to Win" means that there are gameplay advantages that can only be gained through real money. At a lesser degree the advantages may be overcome by skill. In the worst cases however P2W games allow you to become a god (Korean/Chinese games and Diablo 3).

Yeah like said he is full of shit.

How? If you want to get competitive without spending money you will have to grind harder than any Korean mmo out there. If you really want to be technical about it then you can say it isn't pay to win but if you actually use your brain it's clearly pay to win. Dota 2 isn't pay to win because you are given every hero and you don't get the stupid runes and pages.

Nothing technical about it. If its given to you for free then its not pay2win. Yes its annoying that you have to grind it out but its not pay2win.

It doesn't matter if you can grind them for free. If by using real money you can get stuff that will make you stronger faster, then it's pay2win.

Wrong! Jesus Christ man, how dumb can you be?! If its free to everyone, its not Pay2Win!

Pay-2-Win is simply ANY situation where you can spend real world money to obtain an item/upgrade/etc in a game that gives an advantage, period, regardless of the item being available in the game or not. Cosmetic stuff is ok, but if you can buy any advantage it goes to Pay-2-win territory. Before starting to call people dumb, you probably should check the definition of win first.

There's no advantage if I can get the same content you are paying for, for free. If you can get an item that can affect the balance of the game that is exclusive to players who pay then that is pay to win.

Avatar image for foxhound_fox
foxhound_fox

98532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#44 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

F2P =/= P2W

I wish people would stop conflating them. Paying for MORE content doesn't necessarily mean that content will give you an edge. In most F2P games, it just means aesthetic differences and a significantly bigger selection.

Avatar image for lawlessx
lawlessx

48753

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#45 lawlessx
Member since 2004 • 48753 Posts

@foxhound_fox said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

F2P =/= P2W

I wish people would stop conflating them. Paying for MORE content doesn't necessarily mean that content will give you an edge. In most F2P games, it just means aesthetic differences and a significantly bigger selection.

most of the people that claim a F2P game is pay2win haven't been keeping up to date. devs have been working hard to get away from that stigma for years.

Avatar image for snugenz_irl
snugenz_irl

31

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#46  Edited By snugenz_irl
Member since 2013 • 31 Posts

@foxhound_fox said:

@snugenz_irl said:

It'll either be subscription or free2play (pay2win) so i'm happy they've gone with a subscription based model.

F2P =/= P2W

I wish people would stop conflating them. Paying for MORE content doesn't necessarily mean that content will give you an edge. In most F2P games, it just means aesthetic differences and a significantly bigger selection.

Yeah... i never said F2P automatically means P2W, but some are, and it does happen. I've played enough F2P games and enough P2W games to know full well the differences between the payment models.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#47  Edited By Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

I don't mind a P2P setup. A subscription fee usually means a better community and more consistent updates. However the $60 launch price and the addition of a F2P style cash shop all on day one is just stupid. It's clear they are more focused on getting money out of the players rather than providing a good product.

That's the real problem. The game will be going F2P with a shitty F2P setup within 12 months because of their crappy business plan.

I don't want to see the game fail but they are setting up it for failure from the business side of things before the game is even out. Only loyal Elder Scrolls fans will be playing on day one and I doubt the game will hold their attention long, especially if they have to pay monthly to keep playing.

Avatar image for Joedgabe
Joedgabe

5134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#48  Edited By Joedgabe
Member since 2006 • 5134 Posts

@Wasdie said:

I don't mind a P2P setup. A subscription fee usually means a better community and more consistent updates. However the $60 launch price and the addition of a F2P style cash shop all on day one is just stupid. It's clear they are more focused on getting money out of the players rather than providing a good product.

That's the real problem. The game will be going F2P with a shitty F2P setup within 12 months because of their crappy business plan.

Usually..... or it should be.. however it isn't always...

it's not looking that way at all on FF14... !__! servers are laggy at times... it's unstable... bot's everywhere... not a single minimal update for a game that has been out for 2 months that has content as if it was a beta game and it had a successful launch, mostly Everyone has reached cap and end game content. They're pretty much asking for more than 3/4 of the player base to drop before 2014.

Lamest fcking event's that are just talk back and forth between npc's with corny costumes.. Quite honestly F2P games put more effort.

Avatar image for Wasdie
Wasdie

53622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#49 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53622 Posts

@Joedgabe: I just started playing the game. Haven't run into the lag and the servers seem decently populated. I do see the bots however. They lack some common sense things that don't help.

Avatar image for Joedgabe
Joedgabe

5134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#50 Joedgabe
Member since 2006 • 5134 Posts

@Wasdie: The lag mainly comes from the dungeon... but idk how the duneon is set up in the game. I read in a patch they set up about their own section of the server for the dungeons.. but by what means they're run i wouldn't know.