The funny thing about the whole PC/360 multiplat thing...

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

who cares seriusly, aslong as we get to play the games we want, i dont give a damKaosed

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

shsonline

I just don't get the double standard Lemmings have. There are a lot more PCs capable of running Crysis (ie, gaming PCs from the last 2-3 years) than there are PS3s out there (3ish million, probably won't exceed 10 million this time next year).

When a game goes onto PC, it's no big deal for the 360. When it goes onto PS3, despite the much, much smaller userbase, it's ownage and no longer an exclusive.

Obviously the PC is a threat to Xbox software sale, why else would Microsoft insist on delays in some of the Xbox's biggest titles: Halo, Fable, Jade Empire, etc.

Also, in relation to your survey (which BTW is pretty cool), you do realise that since the information is from the NPD, a large chunk of PC games sales will be missing, which the NPD cannot track growing services like Direct2Drive and Steam? 

wouldnt that mean quite the oppisite?

if Console gaming is 75%....then each individual console would on average be 25%....less really since the PS2 is still selling very well.....which would put each individual console at the same level as with PC's. 

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

shsonline

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony! 

[QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

-KinGz-

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well.  Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

Danm_999

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well.  Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

they want to push the xbox sales more since thats where they get more money from. why push the pc gaming name when they can promote the name of their own console. porting it to the pc is just a way of them making more money

This topic fails. If I have a gaming PC, I can play the games on it. nuff said. Sales don't effect me.Magical_Guy

Doesn't change the fact if its on console, most people will get it on console. I'm saying it shouldn't be flamebait for cows to say "bu but its available on PC". It doesn't matter because most people buy it on console, not PC.  

[QUOTE="Kaosed"]who cares seriusly, aslong as we get to play the games we want, i dont give a damtonywilsn

skooma for me ;) 

I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.shsonline

Here is an idea. Because the game is also on the PC, I don't have to buy a 360. I will just play it on my computer I already have.

[QUOTE="Magical_Guy"]This topic fails. If I have a gaming PC, I can play the games on it. nuff said. Sales don't effect me.shsonline

Doesn't change the fact if its on console, most people will get it on console. I'm saying it shouldn't be flamebait for cows to say "bu but its available on PC". It doesn't matter because most people buy it on console, not PC.  

even if it mostly is bought on the console, I can still buy it on PC, therefore the argument stands.

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.Ragnarok1051

Here is an idea. Because the game is also on the PC, I don't have to buy a 360. I will just play it on my computer I already have.

Here is another idea, u can't play it on ps3 and I don't need a pc to play it, it goes all the other way around for ur bad luck tho'. 

I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.shsonline

People say that just for damage control and nothing else...

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.-KinGz-

Here is an idea. Because the game is also on the PC, I don't have to buy a 360. I will just play it on my computer I already have.

Here is another idea, u can't play it on ps3 and I don't need a pc to play it, it goes all the other way around for ur bad luck tho'.

What difference does it make if they dont need a 360 to play it..... 

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.cobrax75

Here is an idea. Because the game is also on the PC, I don't have to buy a 360. I will just play it on my computer I already have.

Here is another idea, u can't play it on ps3 and I don't need a pc to play it, it goes all the other way around for ur bad luck tho'.

What difference does it make if they dont need a 360 to play it.....

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

halokillerz

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well. Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

they want to push the xbox sales more since thats where they get more money from. why push the pc gaming name when they can promote the name of their own console. porting it to the pc is just a way of them making more money

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

 So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

halokillerz

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well. Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

they want to push the xbox sales more since thats where they get more money from. why push the pc gaming name when they can promote the name of their own console. porting it to the pc is just a way of them making more money

Exactly! They want to push Xbox sales. So ergo, it logically follows that they consider PC game sales detrimental, ie in competition, to Xbox game sales.

Therefore, Microsoft themselves feel the PC will take sales from the 360. 

[QUOTE="halokillerz"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

Danm_999

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well. Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

they want to push the xbox sales more since thats where they get more money from. why push the pc gaming name when they can promote the name of their own console. porting it to the pc is just a way of them making more money

Exactly! They want to push Xbox sales. So ergo, it logically follows that they consider PC game sales detrimental, ie in competition, to Xbox game sales.

Therefore, Microsoft themselves feel the PC will take sales from the 360.

Heretic!!!!

Using the heretical "logic" in SW!!!!

Burn him!!!!

*waves the pichfork* 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

 So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

True_Gamer_

People will buy vista regardless of what games are on it because MS has a total monopoly on the OS industry, they have much more to gain from getting people to buy 360s.

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

pundog

People will buy vista regardless of what games are on it because MS has a total monopoly on the OS industry, they have much more to gain from getting people to buy 360s.

Microsoft has no monopoly in the OS market. And of course, as we've seen from the PS3's performance, past dominance can be undone by poor pricing and indifference to the consumer.

Bottom line, Microsoft would probably sell the 360 down the river to help Vista succeed. 

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

Danm_999

People will buy vista regardless of what games are on it because MS has a total monopoly on the OS industry, they have much more to gain from getting people to buy 360s.

Microsoft has no monopoly in the OS market. And of course, as we've seen from the PS3's performance, past dominance can be undone by poor pricing and indifference to the consumer.

Bottom line, Microsoft would probably sell the 360 down the river to help Vista succeed.

yes it does

if u install wondows in ur pc, then linux, u will get a message of a 'fatal eroor and ask u to delate the problem'

and what happens? linux is removed, but if u instal linux first then windows, nothing happens

O.O

MONOPOLY 

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

Danm_999

People will buy vista regardless of what games are on it because MS has a total monopoly on the OS industry, they have much more to gain from getting people to buy 360s.

Microsoft has no monopoly in the OS market. And of course, as we've seen from the PS3's performance, past dominance can be undone by poor pricing and indifference to the consumer.

Bottom line, Microsoft would probably sell the 360 down the river to help Vista succeed. 

TC, you forgot one major factor. WOW. NPD figures does not include subscriptions there are 8.5 paying subscribers, and they are pay $15 every Month. Why do you thing the PC sales go up 48% with the Wow expansion? There is a lot of money in PC gaming. UNFORTUNATELY it is going to Blizzard Now.azrealhk

NPD doesn't track Direct2Drive or Steam either. 

[QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

-KinGz-

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

 i agree i mean weather you get it for pc or 360 MS is gettin some money

[QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

Gen007

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

i agree i mean weather you get it for pc or 360 MS is gettin some money

Their not getting the money if you get it for PC unless they have developed or published it.

i agree i mean weather you get it for pc or 360 MS is gettin some money

Gen007

Edit: Danm beat me to it :P

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So youre saying that M$ is making more money from Xbox360 than from Vista? :lol:

pundog

People will buy vista regardless of what games are on it because MS has a total monopoly on the OS industry, they have much more to gain from getting people to buy 360s.

Microsoft has no monopoly in the OS market. And of course, as we've seen from the PS3's performance, past dominance can be undone by poor pricing and indifference to the consumer.

Bottom line, Microsoft would probably sell the 360 down the river to help Vista succeed.

Vista biggest competition is XP and many people will most probably buy vista only for directx10.  

If you think the Xbox and the PC are not competiting against each other, you're in denial. Do people not remember the mass PC gamer exodus during the launch of the original Xbox through it's lifespan? Then there were those of us that said to ourselves in 2002 "We'll just stick with the PC..."

And so there it is. The rift. The divide. And the competition still rages on today.  

I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.shsonline

Most common people dont know how to upgrade there computer.... they wont even dare to open the box.

So it's only easyer for people buying something said more simpler then a PC.  No worrys for upgrading, and cheaper. But that dosent mean consoles games are better...

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.souledge474

People say that just for damage control and nothing else...

This is where you guys are wrong. Many Playstation gamers have been dedicated PC gamers from the initial launch of the PS1. I know that before that, I played many PC games because there was one in my household and back then, most PCs could run any games out there. From 1993 on a lot of kids like myself that grew up on the NES and other consoles discovered PC gaming because there happened to be one in our households. From there on out, many of us grew to be the type of people that were  gaming on the PC seriously. And during the era of the PS/N64, people picked a console as a secondary gaming machine.

I picked the Playstation, and well, the PC/PS combination still lives on today. In 2002/2003 during the time when the Xbox was starting to come into it's stride, many of us said "Why should we buy this console when most of those games are on the PC, a platform we've been playing forever and when the Playstation 2 is delivering an experience that is bringing us games that set themselves apart from what's on the PC?"

No one is hiding behind the PC. For Playstation fans like myself, it's been a primary gaming platform even before Microsoft dreamed of entering the console game.

Aren't the lemmings the ones that hide behind PC when claiming multiplats. are MS exclusive despite the fact that PC=/=360?tegovoltio

Cows hide behind it for the same reason saying that all its games aren't exclusive because they are on PC. Its a problem both sides have. 

[QUOTE="tegovoltio"]Aren't the lemmings the ones that hide behind PC when claiming multiplats. are MS exclusive despite the fact that PC=/=360?Blackbond

Cows hide behind it for the same reason saying that all its games aren't exclusive because they are on PC. Its a problem both sides have.

It's not a problem I have. My claims are valid and legit. The problem is those cows and lemmings have no clue what they're talking about when it comes to PC gaming. And you, Blackbond know that I do.  

So let me get this straight. Out of 4 systems, the PC only accounts for 1/4th of the total sales of games.  while the other 3 account for the rest 3/4ths.

My god, it looks like itsw all even! 

So let me get this straight. Out of 4 systems, the PC only accounts for 1/4th of the total sales of games. while the other 3 account for the rest 3/4ths.

My god, it looks like itsw all even!

XaosII

When you're hands down the most technologically advanced piece of gaming hardware, the console sheep will gang up on you. 

[QUOTE="souledge474"]

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.TekkenMaster606

People say that just for damage control and nothing else...

This is where you guys are wrong. Many Playstation gamers have been dedicated PC gamers from the initial launch of the PS1. I know that before that, I played many PC games because there was one in my household and back then, most PCs could run any games out there. From 1993 on a lot of kids like myself that grew up on the NES and other consoles discovered PC gaming because there happened to be one in our households. From there on out, many of us grew to be the type of people that were  gaming on the PC seriously. And during the era of the PS/N64, people picked a console as a secondary gaming machine.

I picked the Playstation, and well, the PC/PS combination still lives on today. In 2002/2003 during the time when the Xbox was starting to come into it's stride, many of us said "Why should we buy this console when most of those games are on the PC, a platform we've been playing forever and when the Playstation 2 is delivering an experience that is bringing us games that set themselves apart from what's on the PC?"

No one is hiding behind the PC. For Playstation fans like myself, it's been a primary gaming platform even before Microsoft dreamed of entering the console game.

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

shsonline

I believe that there is a slight difference between *console sales* and *Xbox 360 sales*, so I believe that your calculations could be a bit... generalized.

Neither Xbox 360, nor PS3 nor Wii couldn't compete ALONE against the *console sales*.

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

shsonline

[QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

Danm_999

I just don't get the double standard Lemmings have. There are a lot more PCs capable of running Crysis (ie, gaming PCs from the last 2-3 years) than there are PS3s out there (3ish million, probably won't exceed 10 million this time next year).

When a game goes onto PC, it's no big deal for the 360. When it goes onto PS3, despite the much, much smaller userbase, it's ownage and no longer an exclusive.

Obviously the PC is a threat to Xbox software sale, why else would Microsoft insist on delays in some of the Xbox's biggest titles: Halo, Fable, Jade Empire, etc.

Also, in relation to your survey (which BTW is pretty cool), you do realise that since the information is from the NPD, a large chunk of PC games sales will be missing, which the NPD cannot track growing services like Direct2Drive and Steam? 

all so true about 1/3 of the games I have bought this year have come from steam, not to mention it costs less, which makes it even more attractive, I would proabaly buy all my games there if steam would speed its servers up.  its no fun watching your game downlaod @ 20kb/s if your lucky often 5-10kb/s

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="-KinGz-"][QUOTE="shsonline"]

Do you guys realize that console game sales represent 75 percent of all computer/video game sales, computer gaming isn't significant enough that being a PC/360 game harms the 360. Furthermore, if you study the list of the top selling computer games of 2005 (granted its not current), you will notice out of the top 20 selling computer games, only 5 of them are titles that are also on console.

 

 

I guess that means that PC gamers don't carry enough weight to affect game sales from consoles. So please cows, stop hiding behind PC.

http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf

halokillerz

And another funny thing is that these so called multiplats are from 2 system that don't compete against each other and the one that competes against 360 doesn't have it... ah ... the irony!

If they didn't compete, why isn't Halo 3 coming to PC this year? Why wouldn't Microsoft Game Studios want to move more copies and make more money by putting it on the PC as well.  Why didn't they release Halo 2 simultaneously with the Xbox?

they want to push the xbox sales more since thats where they get more money from. why push the pc gaming name when they can promote the name of their own console. porting it to the pc is just a way of them making more money

there is more money made in software than hardware so its pretty obvious they want people to have to buy the $60 version rather than the $40 version.  if halo was on pc from day one they would loss out big time to sony in consoles 

I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.shsonline

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.Bebi_vegeta

Most common people dont know how to upgrade there computer.... they wont even dare to open the box.

So it's only easyer for people buying something said more simpler then a PC.  No worrys for upgrading, and cheaper. But that dosent mean consoles games are better...

there are more pcs capabile of running oblivion out there at high settings than 360s

[QUOTE="shsonline"]I think the point I'm trying to make is that all the cows say "well I'll just get X title on PC", when the facts show that most sales from games are in the console department, not the PC department, so maybe that fanboy will buy it on PC, but the facts show that most people won't.Hewkii

A fact that most people own a PC. Instead of buying an xbox i can just wait for it on the PC. Not all titles are on the PC is true but alot of "Killer apps" (and i use that term losely) have made an appearance on the PC.