The Psychology of System Wars (56k warning)

  • 116 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for fuzzysquash
fuzzysquash

17374

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 42

User Lists: 0

#1 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts

Note: I know this is system wars, not fanboy wars, but I hope the mods will allow this one because it is not meant to be blind bashing of fanboys.

Why are people so intensely loyal to their console of choice? Why does it seem like some people on the other side of the console war just don't get it sometimes? Why do people at times misconstrue positive aspects of a console as negatives, and negatives as positives?

These are 3 questions I've thought about in my free time (now that it's summer and I have time to waste), and I think they are best addressed by psychological explanations.

Why are people so intensely loyal to their console of choice? Social identity theory tells us that human beings are inherently competitive. Competition happens in a three-stage process. First, we categorize ourselves according to a particular group (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo). Next, we develop a sense of ingroup positivity, which means that we cultivate a sense of superiority vis-a-vis other groups. Ingroup positivity opens the door to intergroup competition, in which we compete with other groups for a particular goal (in this case, the winner of the console war). Social identity theory explains why System Wars is so competitive, when it is quite plausible that all three consoles may end up being successful. But due to our inherently competitive nature, we tend to perceive the console war as zero-sum.

Why is it that people on the other side of the console war just don't get it sometimes? People in different console "factions" often state the same facts over and over again, and yet rarely does anyone succeed in changing someone else's mind. Psychology tells us that the root cause of this phenomenon is that we are all affected, to a greater or lesser degree, by a cognitive bias known as "cognitive dissonance." Cognitive dissonance is the tendency for people to filter in evidence that corroborates their opinion and filter out facts which contradict their previously held beliefs.

This is why it is still hard for some cows to accept the fact that the PS3's games will not be vastly superior to the 360's from a visual standpoint, even when evidence since the first showing of the two consoles' actual games have pointed to its validity. However, because we are all vulnerable to cognitive dissonance, I reject the notion that some groups of fanboys are "smarter" or more "clear-headed" than others. In my view, extreme fanboys of all colors are equally hampered from the same type of cognitive bias.

Finally, why is it that people sometimes misconstrue the positive aspects of a console as a negative, or vice versa? Take the PS3's blu-ray player, for example. Some people say that because the PS3's blu-ray player is cheap compared to standalone players, it is a great deal bundled inside a game console. Other people see it as a violation of consumer choice--that Sony is trying to shove a blu-ray player down gamer's throats. Who's right?

Well, to be exact--both, because different consumers have different subjective valuations of a product. But why do people view the same feature as positive, while others see it as a negative? Psychological theories like prospect theory tell us that human beings can be highly affected by how a particular situation is framed. Whether the the PS3's blu-ray player is a "benefit" or a "burden", whether Xbox Live is "worthwhile" or "milkage", whether the Wiimote is a "gimmick" or an "innovation"--all of these are manifestations of placing different frames on the same product.

System warriors may not be consciously aware of it, but the battle in SW is essentially waged by opposing groups seeking to exploit the psychological vulnerabilities of the opposition.

Avatar image for Pariah_001
Pariah_001

4850

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 Pariah_001
Member since 2003 • 4850 Posts
Uuuhhh.....No.
Avatar image for foxhound_fox
foxhound_fox

98532

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#3 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Well fuzzy... I think you just asploded every head is System Wars. :lol:

Some of that zoomed straight over me... >_>
Avatar image for Ibacai
Ibacai

14459

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#4 Ibacai
Member since 2006 • 14459 Posts
Saved for future answers but I need to actually think about this topic before I answer.
Avatar image for Bansheesdie
Bansheesdie

15057

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#5 Bansheesdie
Member since 2004 • 15057 Posts

Thats Sigmund Fraud is it not? As soon as I saw that I knew this was going to be something.

Avatar image for whoisryanmack
whoisryanmack

7675

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#6 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts

Psych major here, and I'll say not bad. My only real criticism would be that you shouldn't say "psychology tells us", as much as you should state only that a particular theory tells us one thing or another. Psychology is a study that openly recognizes it knows essentially nothing about how things really are. The application of theories is quite good though.

And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!

Avatar image for Verge_6
Verge_6

20282

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
O_O Wow...bravo, my good man. Bravo. This is probably one of the most thought out posts I've seen on this sad little board.
Avatar image for Blackbond
Blackbond

24516

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts
I see I'm having an effect on system wars after. Its all about mind games (points to head) 8)
Avatar image for Bluestorm-Kalas
Bluestorm-Kalas

13073

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 Bluestorm-Kalas
Member since 2006 • 13073 Posts

My head asplode. But seriously now.

That was a solid post, I know where you are coming from. Fanboys = Invisible walls that cannot comprehend information unless it can be used as a weapon to other fanboys, who will in turn, use their Invisible walls to repel that information, and dig up dirt on the other fanboys.

Avatar image for Kansrite
Kansrite

767

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 Kansrite
Member since 2004 • 767 Posts
yeah, i learned about most of this stuff in class and i have thought about it. but i also realized that nothing will change here in SW. its the bashing area and thats about it. i did appreciate all the work you put into that post though
Avatar image for DiscoDevistated
DiscoDevistated

144

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#11 DiscoDevistated
Member since 2007 • 144 Posts

Wow does the Wii suck so badly that they had to put a hot chick in the picture just to capture our attition?

Seriously guys. The PS3 is kind've dieing it is 600$ and has like 20 games. And some of thouse games suck.

The 360 is like 360$ if you buy it used and get a hard-drive + wireless controller and you get better graphics than the PS3 and the awsomeness of the XBL. Seriously guys. Xbox 360 has hit the ground running since it first hit shelves.

Avatar image for ExactlyEv
ExactlyEv

106

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#12 ExactlyEv
Member since 2007 • 106 Posts

Regardless of what anyone says, this indeed is a well thought out, and compelling post.

On the negative side, i highly doubt that the majority of people on this forum would have understood what you have posted. This is due to the fact that the majority of readers do not enjoy reading paragraphs of a subject they much don't understand.

Anyways, good work with the post.

Avatar image for Timstuff
Timstuff

26840

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#13 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

Makes sense to me. I took Psychology 101 this semester. :)

Really, I've known for a long time that system wars are a waste of my time. But I'm still stuck here! :cry:

Avatar image for osirisomeomi
osirisomeomi

3100

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 osirisomeomi
Member since 2007 • 3100 Posts

That was a interesting read. You put concepts into words which i was having trouble following. Expanding on the concept o the zero-sum game would be nice.

Good to see some good threads in SW for oce, and not the same dumb stuff like Unreleased game x is way better than unreleased game y, or console early in its generation x is way worse than console early in its generation y.

It's true, fanboys feel threatened because they feel that the welfare of their console and their own welfare are more closely related than is healthy.

Avatar image for wklzip
wklzip

13925

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#15 wklzip
Member since 2005 • 13925 Posts

Wow does the Wii suck so badly that they had to put a hot chick in the picture just to capture our attition?

Seriously guys. The PS3 is kind've dieing it is 600$ and has like 20 games. And some of thouse games suck.

The 360 is like 360$ if you buy it used and get a hard-drive + wireless controller and you get better graphics than the PS3 and the awsomeness of the XBL. Seriously guys. Xbox 360 has hit the ground running since it first hit shelves.

DiscoDevistated

:o! magic?

Avatar image for waynehead895
waynehead895

18660

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#16 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts

I can't answer your questions because I can only speak for myself. Great post And since I knew it was you I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

Avatar image for Eltroz
Eltroz

5238

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 Eltroz
Member since 2007 • 5238 Posts

Nice post Fuzzy. I do not think mods will take it down. It is not as if you bashed a certain console group fanbase.

Avatar image for majadamus
majadamus

10292

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 21

User Lists: 0

#18 majadamus
Member since 2003 • 10292 Posts
Psychology, covoluted common sense.
Avatar image for fuzzysquash
fuzzysquash

17374

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 42

User Lists: 0

#19 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts

Well fuzzy... I think you just asploded every head is System Wars. :lol:

Some of that zoomed straight over me... >_>foxhound_fox

lol, sorry if it was confusing

Psych major here, and I'll say not bad. My only real criticism would be that you shouldn't say "psychology tells us", as much as you should state only that a particular theory tells us one thing or another. Psychology is a study that openly recognizes it knows essentially nothing about how things really are. The application of theories is quite good though.

And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!

whoisryanmack

Yeah, it probably would have been more precise to say "certain theories of psychology" rather than "psychology." I am not a psych major, so anyone who is...please feel free to point out any flaws in the ways I have characterized the different theories.

Avatar image for XYZVector
XYZVector

753

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#20 XYZVector
Member since 2006 • 753 Posts

Very accurate view... Also perceived history play a big part of this, like my view of the included blu ray player, I think it's astupid featurebecause I got burned by Betamax, then Mini Disks. Now there is no evedence that the Blu Ray player is not going to be succesful. However if I wasn't wasn't an owner of either product's I probably would see the Blu Ray player as a bonus feature to the PS3.

In all reality the PS2 had the DVD player, but since I already owned one, and enjoyed it alot I thought the inclusion of the DVD in the PS2 was the smartest thing sony could have done.

And in my final truthful spasm, the real reason as to why I am a detractor of the PS3 is becuse of my monitary greed. I bought the 360 early becuse I added a HD home theater to my house. At the time I would have bought the PS3 if it was being sold, along side the 360. However it wasn't, so I picked up the 360, and was very happy with it. Now that the PS3 is out, I really don't want to purchase another console, especially a 600.00 one, when the 360 does everything I wan't now. Yeah if the PS3 ever makes it down to 300.00 which it will, and has some goodgames, which it should I will consider a purchase. However I don't think that will happen for many years. Plus with sony's attitude about gaming I find it harder & harder to actually want to buy the PS3. I mean one lie after another, and I really don't like when a company lies to me.

Avatar image for strudel420
strudel420

3687

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 strudel420
Member since 2006 • 3687 Posts
This deserves a sticky imo. Excellent post.
Avatar image for Tiefster
Tiefster

14639

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 37

User Lists: 0

#23 Tiefster
Member since 2005 • 14639 Posts
Humans are naturaly competitive so SW is natural just as you have iPod v. Zune or Chevy v. Ford. The only thing that I can't fathom is how deep some of these people take it, I haven't seen anything compared to the blind loyalty to faceless companies on here except the blind faith in political parties and religions. Theres nothing wrong with optimism for something you support whether it be a console or a political candidate but blind faith towards something is beyond my comprehension.
Avatar image for Riverwolf007
Riverwolf007

26023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

Great job Fuzzy. What a complete waste of time to argue about what could possibly be the most unimportant subject known to man and yet look at how addicting it is to come here.

Now I realize its all because I hate my mother. Damn you Freud!

Avatar image for mutenpika
mutenpika

2940

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 mutenpika
Member since 2004 • 2940 Posts

I just learned what Cognitive Dissonance is, finally!

Thank you, Fuzzy. :)

Also, that was a stupendous post and explains quite a bit why there's so many brick walls to talk to in SW.

Avatar image for majadamus
majadamus

10292

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 21

User Lists: 0

#26 majadamus
Member since 2003 • 10292 Posts

Great job Fuzzy. What a complete waste of time to argue about what could possibly be the most unimportant subject known to man and yet look at how addicting it is to come here.

Now I realize its all because I hate my mother. Damn you Freud!

Riverwolf007

You were jealous of her, and wanted to have sex with your dad?

Avatar image for Timstuff
Timstuff

26840

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#27 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

This deserves a sticky imo. Excellent post.strudel420

Agreed! Maybe it would inspire us to be less stupid when we post.

Avatar image for Riverwolf007
Riverwolf007

26023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts
This deserves a sticky imo. Excellent post.strudel420
Agreed, If not a sticky then at least a few more threads featuring some more Psycological theories and how they relate to SW.
Avatar image for Riverwolf007
Riverwolf007

26023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts
[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Great job Fuzzy. What a complete waste of time to argue about what could possibly be the most unimportant subject known to man and yet look at how addicting it is to come here.

Now I realize its all because I hate my mother. Damn you Freud!

majadamus

You were jealous of her, and wanted to have sex with your dad?

The 300 complex?
Avatar image for gundamfan80
gundamfan80

684

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 gundamfan80
Member since 2005 • 684 Posts

Wow does the Wii suck so badly that they had to put a hot chick in the picture just to capture our attition?

Seriously guys. The PS3 is kind've dieing it is 600$ and has like 20 games. And some of thouse games suck.

The 360 is like 360$ if you buy it used and get a hard-drive + wireless controller and you get better graphics than the PS3 and the awsomeness of the XBL. Seriously guys. Xbox 360 has hit the ground running since it first hit shelves.

DiscoDevistated

Wow......just wow. Please just go sit in the corner.

Avatar image for TOAO_Cyrus1
TOAO_Cyrus1

2895

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 TOAO_Cyrus1
Member since 2004 • 2895 Posts

Humans are naturaly competitive so SW is natural just as you have iPod v. Zune or Chevy v. Ford. The only thing that I can't fathom is how deep some of these people take it, I haven't seen anything compared to the blind loyalty to faceless companies on here except the blind faith in political parties and religions. Theres nothing wrong with optimism for something you support whether it be a console or a political candidate but blind faith towards something is beyond my comprehension.Tiefster

I doubt most of these people would act like this in real life. The internet magnifies emotions because there are no consequences.

Avatar image for TOAO_Cyrus1
TOAO_Cyrus1

2895

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32 TOAO_Cyrus1
Member since 2004 • 2895 Posts
[QUOTE="DiscoDevistated"]

Wow does the Wii suck so badly that they had to put a hot chick in the picture just to capture our attition?

Seriously guys. The PS3 is kind've dieing it is 600$ and has like 20 games. And some of thouse games suck.

The 360 is like 360$ if you buy it used and get a hard-drive + wireless controller and you get better graphics than the PS3 and the awsomeness of the XBL. Seriously guys. Xbox 360 has hit the ground running since it first hit shelves.

gundamfan80

Wow......just wow. Please just go sit in the corner.

Sarcasim much?

Avatar image for fuzzysquash
fuzzysquash

17374

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 42

User Lists: 0

#33 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts
Expanding on the concept o the zero-sum game would be nice.osirisomeomi

A "zero-sum" game is a game in which there must be a clear winner and loser. My argument is that the console war may not end up being zero-sum. Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft may all be very profitable in five years' time. But system warriors tend to ignore this possibility because pride in our console of choice is on the line, so we become very competitive.

Avatar image for bsin94
bsin94

1497

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 bsin94
Member since 2005 • 1497 Posts

Psychology, covoluted common sense. majadamus

Haha, I'd agree. BTW, great post Fuzzy.

Avatar image for osirisomeomi
osirisomeomi

3100

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 osirisomeomi
Member since 2007 • 3100 Posts

Very accurate view... Also perceived history play a big part of this, like my view of the included blu ray player, I think it's astupid featurebecause I got burned by Betamax, then Mini Disks. Now there is no evedence that the Blu Ray player is not going to be succesful. However if I wasn't wasn't an owner of either product's I probably would see the Blu Ray player as a bonus feature to the PS3.

In all reality the PS2 had the DVD player, but since I already owned one, and enjoyed it alot I thought the inclusion of the DVD in the PS2 was the smartest thing sony could have done.

And in my final truthful spasm, the real reason as to why I am a detractor of the PS3 is becuse of my monitary greed. I bought the 360 early becuse I added a HD home theater to my house. At the time I would have bought the PS3 if it was being sold, along side the 360. However it wasn't, so I picked up the 360, and was very happy with it. Now that the PS3 is out, I really don't want to purchase another console, especially a 600.00 one, when the 360 does everything I wan't now. Yeah if the PS3 ever makes it down to 300.00 which it will, and has some goodgames, which it should I will consider a purchase. However I don't think that will happen for many years. Plus with sony's attitude about gaming I find it harder & harder to actually want to buy the PS3. I mean one lie after another, and I really don't like when a company lies to me.

XYZVector

Lies to you? How so? If oyu mean about the features that were going to be on the ps3, those should have been pulled. Why would the console ever need two HDMI ports? As for everything else, it all seems like typical PR babble that all console makers do. Why is Sony held to a higher standard?

I agree with your point that blu-ray won't have the same impact that dvd did. dvd offered clear advantages over vhs, but blu-ray is only an evolution, ot a revolution. There isn't sufficient incentive.

Avatar image for Hoffgod
Hoffgod

12229

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#36 Hoffgod
Member since 2006 • 12229 Posts
Suddenly I'm really glad I took that class of psych 100. I actually understood that.
Great thread Fuzzy. Sticky material. Someone get Cakeorrdeath or CaseyWegner on this!
Avatar image for silversurfergold
silversurfergold

476

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 silversurfergold
Member since 2004 • 476 Posts

You kinda didn't really point out flaws of systems except the ps3. I'll list them for u

360

1)too large of a failure rate

2)no decent exclusives(pc get's most of them)

3)Seems that u get hardware upgrades often (hard drive, elite, processors, heat sink)

Wii

1)Not powerful enough

2)Scared to see 2008, all good games coming out this year

3)nothing else really, it's fun that's why I have one

PS3

1)you listed them no need to say it again

-Leaving out small flaws in other systems while adding to one that you dont' prefer makes ur post bias. Don't forget next time k

Avatar image for nhh12345
nhh12345

476

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 nhh12345
Member since 2007 • 476 Posts
Competition does not really apply to consoles. There is no use to side with a company. I never understood how or why people will follow a company not for games but for gamespot scores, and 'ownage'. They persist even by believing the game they played for countless hours looked good because it got a 9 in graphics, or plays good because it got a 9 in gameplay. It isn't like they are following a certain group anymore, but are blindly following the business plans of their respective company. It is as if some of the people work for these companies when discussing about sale numbers for their respective console and other consoles. The certain degree of competition here goes from playful competition, to agressive, malevolent, and primal competition, in which these people attack and lie in order to win an arguement. FuzzySquash, seeing as you took psychology, do you believe that fanboyism is a psychological problem to a certain point?
Avatar image for TOAO_Cyrus1
TOAO_Cyrus1

2895

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40 TOAO_Cyrus1
Member since 2004 • 2895 Posts

You kinda didn't really point out flaws of systems except the ps3. I'll list them for u

360

1)too large of a failure rate

2)no decent exclusives(pc get's most of them)

3)Seems that u get hardware upgrades often (hard drive, elite, processors, heat sink)

Wii

1)Not powerful enough

2)Scared to see 2008, all good games coming out this year

3)nothing else really, it's fun that's why I have one

PS3

1)you listed them no need to say it again

-Leaving out small flaws in other systems while adding to one that you dont' prefer makes ur post bias. Don't forget next time k

silversurfergold

Everyone has a bias. Doesnt make his post less relevent. You are obviously biased against the 360 and Wii or you wouldnt have posted this.

Avatar image for PhoebusFlows
PhoebusFlows

2050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 PhoebusFlows
Member since 2007 • 2050 Posts

And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!whoisryanmack

How come I always hear Psych majors say that? Who do psych majors consider the more must-know names in the field?

Avatar image for the-very-best
the-very-best

14486

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#42 the-very-best
Member since 2006 • 14486 Posts

Very nice and true for the most part. The only part I disagree with is where you left out that the-very-best is always right.

I actually understood some of those words. Looks like a year of psych has made me understand like 3 terms, woo!

Avatar image for Jagazaar
Jagazaar

1023

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43 Jagazaar
Member since 2007 • 1023 Posts

Wise words indeed, kudos to you.

Personally, I always attributed the competitive nature of humanity to our origins as a tribal species, waaaaay back in the evolutionary ladder. One gains instinctive satisfaction from achieving a higher 'rank' in the 'hierarchy', even if that increased superiority is only superficial and/or psychological. Putting down another person makes one feel more secure in their position in the hierarchy and hence gives satisfaction. 'Hierarchies' exist everywhere and in all contexts, it's just a matter of where you subconsciously draw parallels. Think of kids in a schoolyard, as an example of this. On a different note, we also feel secure in being part of a tribe, be it sharing similar interests, supporting the same sports team, having the same console, etc.

This is just my opinion and I'm probably being unfocused and overly brief due to excessive tiredness, but just thought I'd add that. Yay and soforth. I'ma go take a long nap now.

Avatar image for nhh12345
nhh12345

476

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#44 nhh12345
Member since 2007 • 476 Posts

Wise words indeed, kudos to you.

Personally, I always attributed the competitive nature of humanity to our origins as a tribal species, waaaaay back in the evolutionary ladder. One gains instinctive satisfaction from achieving a higher 'rank' in the 'hierarchy', even if that increased superiority is only superficial and/or psychological. Putting down another person makes one feel more secure in their position in the hierarchy and hence gives satisfaction. 'Hierarchies' exist everywhere and in all contexts, it's just a matter of where you subconsciously draw parallels. Think of kids in a schoolyard, as an example of this. On a different note, we also feel secure in being part of a tribe, be it sharing similar interests, supporting the same sports team, having the same console, etc.

This is just my opinion and I'm probably being unfocused and overly brief due to excessive tiredness, but just thought I'd add that. Yay and soforth. I'ma go take a long nap now.

Jagazaar
Yea, I agree with you. THis place is a little primal, and that shows from the stupid comments on this board. Only if there was some place to talk intellectually about the consoles (which I have not found a place).
Avatar image for whoisryanmack
whoisryanmack

7675

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#45 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"] And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!PhoebusFlows

How come I always hear Psych majors say that? Who do psych majors consider the more must-know names in the field?

For some reason, we continue to study Frueds theories even though they are essentially incorrect. The biggest reason is probably the pop culture aspect, in that everyone uses some Fruedian ideas to explain other people. Everytime you hear someone say something like "she likes guys that treat her like crap because she is subconciously trying to resolve her issues with her dad who treated her the same way", that is purely Fruedian. The problem is, he was a major cokehead, and did very little to no research in developing these theories. For all we know, they were just ramblings, and many have been proven incorrect.

His idea that our subconcious affects ourbehavior still stands however. That is his only real contribution to modern psychology, but he did nothing to really explain why or how.

BF Skinner is probably the most big name psychologist who did some real quality work. He developed theories further explaining classical conditioning (Pavlov's dog) and behaviorism in general. But his work is only that field, so if behaviorism was one day proven incorrect entirely, then he is crap. Neuropsychologists would already be laughing at him today. Most of the good stuff is done by researchers who focus on tiny, almost insignificantly small, portions of human behavior. You would have to add them all together to get a nice picture of what really might be going on. No single one is extremely important like pop-culture considers Frued.

Avatar image for PhoebusFlows
PhoebusFlows

2050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 PhoebusFlows
Member since 2007 • 2050 Posts
[QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"] And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!whoisryanmack

How come I always hear Psych majors say that? Who do psych majors consider the more must-know names in the field?

For some reason, we continue to study Frueds theories even though they are essentially incorrect. The biggest reason is probably the pop culture aspect, in that everyone uses some Fruedian ideas to explain other people. Everytime you hear someone say something like "she likes guys that treat her like crap because she is subconciously trying to resolve her issues with her dad who treated her the same way", that is purely Fruedian. The problem is, he was a major cokehead, and did very little to no research in developing these theories. For all we know, they were just ramblings, and many have been proven incorrect.

His idea that our subconcious affects ourbehavior still stands however. That is his only real contribution to modern psychology, but he did nothing to really explain why or how.

BF Skinner is probably the most big name psychologist who did some real quality work. He developed theories further explaining classical conditioning (Pavlov's dog) and behaviorism in general. But his work is only that field, so if behaviorism was one day proven incorrect entirely, then he is crap. Neuropsychologists would already be laughing at him today. Most of the good stuff is done by researchers who focus on tiny, almost insignificantly small, portions of human behavior. You would have to add them all together to get a nice picture of what really might be going on. No single one is extremely important like pop-culture considers Frued.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that's what I was wondering. So what do majors think of Jung? It seems Freud and Jung are the two most well-known names, but I assume pysch majors must study from over a good 5-10 names to get a broad view of their discipline.

Avatar image for subrosian
subrosian

14232

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#47 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
You've completly ignored one of the most important tenets of both behavioral conditioning and marketing - reward. Why do we eat our favorite foods over and over again - because they taste good. It's common sense "eat yummy food" (behavior) to receive "yummy taste" (positive stimulus). It works the same way playing a game series you love / have nostalgic attachment to, et cetera.

Obviously the inverse is true as well - get food poisoning from some bad shrimp, and you won't be craving cocktail sauce for a long time.

We're not all sitting aroud having "cognitive dissonance" convince us that we own something, therefore we must like it (I own *plenty* of games I don't like). Cognitive dissonance is what convinces someone an SDTV > HDTV (using dissonance to ignore that their belief is shaped by lack of money, not by SDTV offering a superior picture).

You're also ignoring that we're not always dealing with fully developed psyches in System Wars. Anyone over thirty on here want to explain to the teens and twenty-somethings the utter truth in the statement "you are not yet mature, you *do not* know how the world works, and that feeling you have isn't confidence, it's ignorance, and you have *no idea* what love means"?

But y'know what Sigmund Fraud? Sometimes a cigar is *just* a cigar. Sometimes a Nintendo fan is *just* a Nintendo fan.
Avatar image for whoisryanmack
whoisryanmack

7675

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#48 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"] And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!PhoebusFlows

How come I always hear Psych majors say that? Who do psych majors consider the more must-know names in the field?

For some reason, we continue to study Frueds theories even though they are essentially incorrect. The biggest reason is probably the pop culture aspect, in that everyone uses some Fruedian ideas to explain other people. Everytime you hear someone say something like "she likes guys that treat her like crap because she is subconciously trying to resolve her issues with her dad who treated her the same way", that is purely Fruedian. The problem is, he was a major cokehead, and did very little to no research in developing these theories. For all we know, they were just ramblings, and many have been proven incorrect.

His idea that our subconcious affects ourbehavior still stands however. That is his only real contribution to modern psychology, but he did nothing to really explain why or how.

BF Skinner is probably the most big name psychologist who did some real quality work. He developed theories further explaining classical conditioning (Pavlov's dog) and behaviorism in general. But his work is only that field, so if behaviorism was one day proven incorrect entirely, then he is crap. Neuropsychologists would already be laughing at him today. Most of the good stuff is done by researchers who focus on tiny, almost insignificantly small, portions of human behavior. You would have to add them all together to get a nice picture of what really might be going on. No single one is extremely important like pop-culture considers Frued.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that's what I was wondering. So what do majors think of Jung? It seems Freud and Jung are the two most well-known names, but I assume pysch majors must study from over a good 5-10 names to get a broad view of their discipline.

Jung was a little better than Frued (as in, he did some research).....problem is, he was Frued's protoge. Frued actually tossed him because Jung attempted to analyze Frued using Frued's own theories .lol. He didn't like that too much, and his famous quote "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" comes from that. The entire field of psychoanalysis (that Frued developed) has been mostly debunked these days, but it does still exist. Alot of it is "right", but it doesn't do much to tell how to fix things or why things happen the way they do. Since the age of technology, we also have a better idea about how brain chemistry affects us, and that put a big damper on alot of those theories. Still, the whole idea of seeinga therapist and lying on a couch is hugely popular, we just don't think Frued or Jung had the right answers as to why it helps.

...oh, and as to how many names are studied....in the hundreds. I am a semester away from being finished entirely and you should see my notebooks. I might have 20-30 filled with theories and different names attatched to each. The researcher is really less important than the study they performed, sad as that is for those who did all the work.

Avatar image for subrosian
subrosian

14232

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#49 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="PhoebusFlows"]

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"] And Freud? Ugh. No more undeserved credit for this guy..please!PhoebusFlows

How come I always hear Psych majors say that? Who do psych majors consider the more must-know names in the field?

For some reason, we continue to study Frueds theories even though they are essentially incorrect. The biggest reason is probably the pop culture aspect, in that everyone uses some Fruedian ideas to explain other people. Everytime you hear someone say something like "she likes guys that treat her like crap because she is subconciously trying to resolve her issues with her dad who treated her the same way", that is purely Fruedian. The problem is, he was a major cokehead, and did very little to no research in developing these theories. For all we know, they were just ramblings, and many have been proven incorrect.

His idea that our subconcious affects ourbehavior still stands however. That is his only real contribution to modern psychology, but he did nothing to really explain why or how.

BF Skinner is probably the most big name psychologist who did some real quality work. He developed theories further explaining classical conditioning (Pavlov's dog) and behaviorism in general. But his work is only that field, so if behaviorism was one day proven incorrect entirely, then he is crap. Neuropsychologists would already be laughing at him today. Most of the good stuff is done by researchers who focus on tiny, almost insignificantly small, portions of human behavior. You would have to add them all together to get a nice picture of what really might be going on. No single one is extremely important like pop-culture considers Frued.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, that's what I was wondering. So what do majors think of Jung? It seems Freud and Jung are the two most well-known names, but I assume pysch majors must study from over a good 5-10 names to get a broad view of their discipline.

Psychologists study the old theorists for the same reason that a business student studies basic macroeconomics (another area of study where theories that sound concrete are actually hugely inaccurate) - it provides them with a foundation - it lets them know the history, and it helps them understand how we got from philosophy to early psychology to modern psychology.

Psychology as a science has very little to do with the early theorists and a whole lot to do with statistics, research methods, sociology, biology, neurology, chemistry, et cetera - basically half the field / major is pulled from the "hard sciences" - somewhat like Forensics.

And just like Forensic Science, the other half of the field is made up of theory, philosophy, ethics, et cetera. The ultimate driving question of psychology is "why do people think and act the way they do?" So... psychology majors *do* study a great deal of psychologists, famous experiments, et cetera - but it isn't as much to memorize facts as to learn how to think.

Remember that Psychology is a *vast* field - it's like saying "so tell me about business" - well what do you want to know? The fundamental language of business is accounting and mathematics - but there's a vast difference between Economics and Finance - let alone the difference between someone in, say, MIS (such as myself) who deals with people (psychology / sociology aka the Managment part), data (information), and computer science, statistics, and accounting (systems).

All of the liberal arts border on each other - so you have Philosophy sprouting Theology, Sociology, and Psychology, with Psychology and Sociology bordering on Management, which border on MIS, which is somewhere between Computer science (which stems from mathematics) and managment (which borders accounting and psychology)...



A short answer - a psychology major studies the history of the field (names, experiments, et cetera) but most of the focus in the ****s that deal with behavior is on understanding terminology, and learning to discuss why a behavior occured using that terminology, more than it is ever on memorizing Freud, dates, et cetera.



One of the biggest reasons psychologists study history though? Ethics. A lot of terrible experiments were performed in the past that violate modern ethical standards. We would never perform some of the studies that took place fifty years ago - but why should we let what was learned from those studies go to waste?

Avatar image for PhoebusFlows
PhoebusFlows

2050

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50 PhoebusFlows
Member since 2007 • 2050 Posts
Very interesting and excellent information there guys. I really appreciate it. :D