The reason why some multi-plat games look better on 360

"The PS3's Cell processor has one main PowerPC processor and EIGHT SPEs on it. Each is its own core, although they're much more specialized and simpler than the main one (which is the only one loosely comparable to those in the 360). One is disabled to improve yields, bringing the count down to eight. Another is dedicated exclusively to the OS, bringing it down to seven. Half of one is also dedicated to the OS, but can be pulled as needed. Regardless, yes, the PS3 DOES have seven cores. They're just not directly comparable to those in the 360, which has three DUAL-THREADED cores, and yes, the dual-threading IS quite valuable to a skilled programmer.

My point is not to give one system credit over the other, but to point out your own inaccuracies in your trashing of others' information.

The reality is that the 360 has a superior GPU, while the PS3 has a superior CPU. The catch is the 360's dev kits are drastically easier to work with than the PS3's. So the combination of better graphics hardware and easier dev kits leads to differences like those seen in this comparison. A developer who makes the real effort can make either system sing, and those who make effort to truly optimize for each can get around these problems. But for the lazier devs, the 360 gets better results."

It's true and 360 fanboys can't deny it.

/thread

I thought it was a known fact already that the Xbox 360 is easier to develop for :|
(Why make a thread and end the first post with "/thread" ?)

(Why make a thread and end the first post with "/thread" ?)

IcyToasters

Good question :|

Well does it really bother people that its just a slight advantage unlike last gen? seems to me the people who are buying systems dont care for graphics like most of you here on SW. Nintendo and MS are still leading the way but the PS3 arguably has the better hardware.young_doe

It does, thats why no game like Uncharted 2 or Infamous or MGS4 will ever be seen on 360. One of the biggest limitations is the fact that 360 lacks Blue Ray.

i've only found some games that look better on 360 than ps3
like bayonetta...

PS3 has better CPU. X360 has better GPU. Games are easier to develop on 360 than PS3 due to developers are new to make games to run on Cell processor. So all multi-platform games are being made on 360 first, then ported to PS3. I've never heard of porting PS3 version to 360.Kleeyook

Thus, its not a surprise that the 360 version may be slightly superior.

i've only found some games that look better on 360 than ps3
like bayonetta...

GC4ever

[QUOTE="young_doe"]Well does it really bother people that its just a slight advantage unlike last gen? seems to me the people who are buying systems dont care for graphics like most of you here on SW. Nintendo and MS are still leading the way but the PS3 arguably has the better hardware.argetlam00

It does, thats why no game like Uncharted 2 or Infamous or MGS4 will ever be seen on 360. One of the biggest limitations is the fact that 360 lacks Blue Ray.

[QUOTE="young_doe"]Well does it really bother people that its just a slight advantage unlike last gen? seems to me the people who are buying systems dont care for graphics like most of you here on SW. Nintendo and MS are still leading the way but the PS3 arguably has the better hardware.argetlam00

It does, thats why no game like Uncharted 2 or Infamous or MGS4 will ever be seen on 360. One of the biggest limitations is the fact that 360 lacks Blue Ray.

[QUOTE="Kleeyook"]PS3 has better CPU. X360 has better GPU. Games are easier to develop on 360 than PS3 due to developers are new to make games to run on Cell processor. So all multi-platform games are being made on 360 first, then ported to PS3. I've never heard of porting PS3 version to 360.argetlam00

Thus, its not a surprise that the 360 version may be slightly superior.

Yes but than again Ghostbusters where ps3 port,RDR was started as ps3 exclusive and had dedicated teams for both consoles...

i've only found some games that look better on 360 than ps3

like bayonetta...GC4ever

Is this 4real? LMAO

Very few multiplats take advantage of the SPUs when ported from the 360 version.

It's amazing that the developers can still almost match the 360 version with just one CPU core and an inferior GPU.

[QUOTE="Kleeyook"] Go on lensoftruth or a site like that, it's a bit....indepth but the majority of cases, 360 performs/looks better in multiplats. [QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="young_doe"]Well does it really bother people that its just a slight advantage unlike last gen? seems to me the people who are buying systems dont care for graphics like most of you here on SW. Nintendo and MS are still leading the way but the PS3 arguably has the better hardware.argetlam00

It does, thats why no game like Uncharted 2 or Infamous or MGS4 will ever be seen on 360. One of the biggest limitations is the fact that 360 lacks Blue Ray.

Crysis 2 on consoles doesn't look better than Uncharted 2. For rage, its too early to say.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="Kleeyook"]PS3 has better CPU. X360 has better GPU. Games are easier to develop on 360 than PS3 due to developers are new to make games to run on Cell processor. So all multi-platform games are being made on 360 first, then ported to PS3. I've never heard of porting PS3 version to 360.Bus-A-Bus

Thus, its not a surprise that the 360 version may be slightly superior.

Yes but than again Ghostbusters where ps3 port,RDR was started as ps3 exclusive and had dedicated teams for both consoles...

I don't see your point, how does this show the limitations of the PS3 hardware? More like it shows that those "dedicated teams", weren't truly all that great. We have already seen what the PS3 can do by a great competent developer.

---------
I agree but only because those games are 1st party which is why they'll stay on the PS3 for now. But if those games are soooo good why is the PS3 still in last? I dont get it? whats the issue

Lol at sales. And the PS3 was catching up to the 360, which had a head which was made worse by the fact that the PS3's early offerings where "meh".

I thought it was simply because they build them up from the 360 then they port them to the PS3 so they don't fit quite as well on the PS3. Like they used too on PS2 except that there was a big enough gap between PS2 and xbox/GC that it didn't matter.

Erm why the /Thread? if you didn't want to hear our responses you have a blog... :|. You have basically just said what everybody has known since the consoles launched, the end result still being the difference in power is barely noticable because the PS3 is so hard to develope for (I don't know why people would try and spin slow and more expensive development time as a pro).

Very few multiplats take advantage of the SPUs when ported from the 360 version.

It's amazing that the developers can still almost match the 360 version with just one CPU core and an inferior GPU.

Rikusaki

Wow thats total lie...check b3d,there are actual devs talking about those things and the biggest misunderstand is that 3rd party does not use SPUS.EVERYBODY use it for geometry culling,Split second uses it for deferred lighting(like KZ2),BF BC 2 use them extensively there is their pdf documentation...

I mean one ppu in ps3 is even worse than ppu in 360 and GPU is FAR inferior to 360 gpu.If it was that way than ps3 would SERIOUSLY holding 360 down since as far as i know 3ppus with VMX128 units,more memory,much better gpu with eDRAM>>>>one ppu and RSX.

The reason why some look better on 360 is because they use 360 as the lead SKU. Pretty much thats it.

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]

Very few multiplats take advantage of the SPUs when ported from the 360 version.

It's amazing that the developers can still almost match the 360 version with just one CPU core and an inferior GPU.

Bus-A-Bus

Wow thats total lie...check b3d,there are actual devs talking about those things and the biggest misunderstand is that 3rd party does not use SPUS.EVERYBODY use it for geometry culling,Split second uses it for deferred lighting(like KZ2),BF BC 2 use them extensively there is their pdf documentation...

I mean one ppu in ps3 is even worse than ppu in 360 and GPU is FAR inferior to 360 gpu.If it was that way than ps3 would SERIOUSLY holding 360 down since as far as i know 3ppus with VMX128 units,more memory,much better gpu with eDRAM>>>>one ppu and RSX.

"FAR" inferior is pushing it. If it was "FAR" inferior, wed be seeing games on 360 look way better then on PS3.

[QUOTE="Kleeyook"]PS3 has better CPU. X360 has better GPU. Games are easier to develop on 360 than PS3 due to developers are new to make games to run on Cell processor. So all multi-platform games are being made on 360 first, then ported to PS3. I've never heard of porting PS3 version to 360.argetlam00

Thus, its not a surprise that the 360 version may be slightly superior.

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]

Very few multiplats take advantage of the SPUs when ported from the 360 version.

It's amazing that the developers can still almost match the 360 version with just one CPU core and an inferior GPU.

XboximusPrime

Wow thats total lie...check b3d,there are actual devs talking about those things and the biggest misunderstand is that 3rd party does not use SPUS.EVERYBODY use it for geometry culling,Split second uses it for deferred lighting(like KZ2),BF BC 2 use them extensively there is their pdf documentation...

I mean one ppu in ps3 is even worse than ppu in 360 and GPU is FAR inferior to 360 gpu.If it was that way than ps3 would SERIOUSLY holding 360 down since as far as i know 3ppus with VMX128 units,more memory,much better gpu with eDRAM>>>>one ppu and RSX.

"FAR" inferior is pushing it. If it was "FAR" inferior, wed be seeing games on 360 look way better then on PS3.

Well it actually is quite alot inferior...Cell has to take ALOT to match it...

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

Wow thats total lie...check b3d,there are actual devs talking about those things and the biggest misunderstand is that 3rd party does not use SPUS.EVERYBODY use it for geometry culling,Split second uses it for deferred lighting(like KZ2),BF BC 2 use them extensively there is their pdf documentation...

I mean one ppu in ps3 is even worse than ppu in 360 and GPU is FAR inferior to 360 gpu.If it was that way than ps3 would SERIOUSLY holding 360 down since as far as i know 3ppus with VMX128 units,more memory,much better gpu with eDRAM>>>>one ppu and RSX.

Bus-A-Bus

"FAR" inferior is pushing it. If it was "FAR" inferior, wed be seeing games on 360 look way better then on PS3.

Well it actually is quite alot inferior...Cell has to take ALOT to match it...

Um... does it matter like, AT ALL what you prefer? Don't shove your opinion up other people's butts.

Don't believe everything you here from fanboys from both Xbox and PS3 owners.

Fanboys want you to believe that most multiplats look better on Xbox when in fact majority of games look identical or near identical across both platforms.

Whenever there is a difference, we will definitely know about it on SW( which is once in a blue moon).

Believe it or not, some multiplates look better on PS3:

Final Fantasy

Tomb Raider Underworld

Dragon Age

Don't believe everything you here from fanboys from both Xbox and PS3 owners.

Fanboys want you to believe that most multiplats look better on Xbox when in fact majority of games look identical or near identical across both platforms.

Whenever there is a difference, we will definitely know about it on SW( which is once in a blue moon).

Believe it or not, some multiplates look better on PS3:

Final Fantasy

Tomb Raider Underworld

Dragon Age

Adamantium4k2

Dragon age looked better on PS3, but ran better on 360.

lol, PS3 has 8 total SPUs, and only 6 available to games. :P Do you even know how SPUs work?navyguy21

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

"FAR" inferior is pushing it. If it was "FAR" inferior, wed be seeing games on 360 look way better then on PS3.

XboximusPrime

Well it actually is quite alot inferior...Cell has to take ALOT to match it...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) Msaa alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

he is developer that developed on both.He is not saying now solely on post processing,vertex shaders and eDRAM(particles,shadows and transparencies) that we all know,he is talking about alot of other "falls".Anyway Capcom said Xenos vertex performance match 8800 graphics card.I dont know do you know how exactly unified structure works but if you knew you would also know just how big that advantage is.

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

Don't believe everything you here from fanboys from both Xbox and PS3 owners.

Fanboys want you to believe that most multiplats look better on Xbox when in fact majority of games look identical or near identical across both platforms.

Whenever there is a difference, we will definitely know about it on SW( which is once in a blue moon).

Believe it or not, some multiplates look better on PS3:

Final Fantasy

Tomb Raider Underworld

Dragon Age

XboximusPrime

Dragona ge looked better on PS3, but ran better on 360.

Proof that it "ran better"? What are we talking about here? Maybe 1 sec longer to load or something?

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

Well it actually is quite alot inferior...Cell has to take ALOT to match it...

Bus-A-Bus

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) Msaa alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

he is developer that developed on both.He is not saying now solely on post processing,vertex shaders and eDRAM(particles,shadows and transparencies) that we all know,he is talking about alot of other "falls".Anyway Capcom said Xenos vertex performance match 8800 graphics card.I dont know do you know how exactly unified structure works but if you knew you would also know just how big that advantage is.

Even so, I really dont think this makes 360 a better console in anyway. Not saying thats what you were saying, but I think that when people see the PS3 with a weaker GPU they think its a weaker console, which it most certainly is not. And I really dont see why its having a weaker GPU really matters if the CPU is obviously working along side it to make it better.

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

Don't believe everything you here from fanboys from both Xbox and PS3 owners.

Fanboys want you to believe that most multiplats look better on Xbox when in fact majority of games look identical or near identical across both platforms.

Whenever there is a difference, we will definitely know about it on SW( which is once in a blue moon).

Believe it or not, some multiplates look better on PS3:

Final Fantasy

Tomb Raider Underworld

Dragon Age

argetlam00

Dragona ge looked better on PS3, but ran better on 360.

Proof that it "ran better"? What are we talking about here? Maybe 1 sec longer to load or something?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-23?page=2

"In summary, technologically speaking the PC original is the winner here. While the PS3 version is closer to it in many ways, it can't make up for the frame-rate and the cut-down visuals, and the lack of utilisation of the Blu-ray storage space is peculiar. For Xbox 360 owners, the visual downgrade is a touch more impactful, but the game is less prone to the PS3 code's frame-rate drops."

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Adamantium4k2"]

Don't believe everything you here from fanboys from both Xbox and PS3 owners.

Fanboys want you to believe that most multiplats look better on Xbox when in fact majority of games look identical or near identical across both platforms.

Whenever there is a difference, we will definitely know about it on SW( which is once in a blue moon).

Believe it or not, some multiplates look better on PS3:

Final Fantasy

Tomb Raider Underworld

Dragon Age

argetlam00

Dragona ge looked better on PS3, but ran better on 360.

Proof that it "ran better"? What are we talking about here? Maybe 1 sec longer to load or something?

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"] Can you give me a link where it says from areputable person that the RSX is "FAR" inferior to teh GPU in the 360? Otherwise I assume your pulling it out of your ass. As far as I know, adn from all taht I read from Carmack and whatever, the RSX is weaker indeed, but its not that much weaker.

XboximusPrime

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) Msaa alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

he is developer that developed on both.He is not saying now solely on post processing,vertex shaders and eDRAM(particles,shadows and transparencies) that we all know,he is talking about alot of other "falls".Anyway Capcom said Xenos vertex performance match 8800 graphics card.I dont know do you know how exactly unified structure works but if you knew you would also know just how big that advantage is.

Even so, I really dont think this makes 360 a better console in anyway. Not saying thats what you were saying, but I think that when people see the PS3 with a weaker GPU they think its a weaker console, which it most certainly is not. And I really dont see why its having a weaker GPU really matters if the CPU is obviously working along side it to make it better.

He explained it great.In ps3 you have 6 spus so general code(a.i,sound,physics,animations...) that run on 3ppus and 3VMX128 units in 360 have to run on some spus,you HAVE to run general code.Then he said that you have to do geometry culling which in UC2 case takes 40% of spus time and thats NOT needed on 360 cus it has no problems with vertex saders.Now account in post processing,some pre steps for lighting and shadowing and you will see that 6 spus are not so hard to "spend".While Xenos can handle those things on its own...

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

Proof that it "ran better"? What are we talking about here? Maybe 1 sec longer to load or something?

XboximusPrime

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-23?page=2

"In summary, technologically speaking the PC original is the winner here. While the PS3 version is closer to it in many ways, it can't make up for the frame-rate and the cut-down visuals, and the lack of utilisation of the Blu-ray storage space is peculiar. For Xbox 360 owners, the visual downgrade is a touch more impactful, but the game is less prone to the PS3 code's frame-rate drops."

benchmarks please. What is the FPS difference?

More PS3 inferiority KittenWishes

Yeah, the PS3 fans are certainly having to deal with so many flops and lack of exclusive titles...Oh wait...

More PS3 inferiority KittenWishes

WTF game is that?

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:


1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) Msaa alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

he is developer that developed on both.He is not saying now solely on post processing,vertex shaders and eDRAM(particles,shadows and transparencies) that we all know,he is talking about alot of other "falls".Anyway Capcom said Xenos vertex performance match 8800 graphics card.I dont know do you know how exactly unified structure works but if you knew you would also know just how big that advantage is.

Bus-A-Bus

Even so, I really dont think this makes 360 a better console in anyway. Not saying thats what you were saying, but I think that when people see the PS3 with a weaker GPU they think its a weaker console, which it most certainly is not. And I really dont see why its having a weaker GPU really matters if the CPU is obviously working along side it to make it better.

He explained it great.In ps3 you have 6 spus so general code(a.i,sound,physics,animations...) that run on 3ppus and 3VMX128 units in 360 have to run on some spus,you HAVE to run general code.Then he said that you have to do geometry culling which in UC2 case takes 40% of spus time and thats NOT needed on 360 cus it has no problems with vertex saders.Now account in post processing,some pre steps for lighting and shadowing and you will see that 6 spus are not so hard to "spend".While Xenos can handle those things on its own...

Fine. Again, that dosent make the PS3 a worse console, so why does this matter? IF PS3 is plenty able to get great looking games (some of the best this gen to boot) then why does this matter?

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

Even so, I really dont think this makes 360 a better console in anyway. Not saying thats what you were saying, but I think that when people see the PS3 with a weaker GPU they think its a weaker console, which it most certainly is not. And I really dont see why its having a weaker GPU really matters if the CPU is obviously working along side it to make it better.

XboximusPrime

He explained it great.In ps3 you have 6 spus so general code(a.i,sound,physics,animations...) that run on 3ppus and 3VMX128 units in 360 have to run on some spus,you HAVE to run general code.Then he said that you have to do geometry culling which in UC2 case takes 40% of spus time and thats NOT needed on 360 cus it has no problems with vertex saders.Now account in post processing,some pre steps for lighting and shadowing and you will see that 6 spus are not so hard to "spend".While Xenos can handle those things on its own...

Fine. Again, that dosent make the PS3 a worse console, so why does this matter? IF PS3 is plenty able to get great looking games (some of the best this gen to boot) then why does this matter?

Im not trying to say its worse console,IMO its better worth for money and better built quality than 360 im just trying to back up that RSX is quite inferior to xenos.

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

He explained it great.In ps3 you have 6 spus so general code(a.i,sound,physics,animations...) that run on 3ppus and 3VMX128 units in 360 have to run on some spus,you HAVE to run general code.Then he said that you have to do geometry culling which in UC2 case takes 40% of spus time and thats NOT needed on 360 cus it has no problems with vertex saders.Now account in post processing,some pre steps for lighting and shadowing and you will see that 6 spus are not so hard to "spend".While Xenos can handle those things on its own...

Bus-A-Bus

Fine. Again, that dosent make the PS3 a worse console, so why does this matter? IF PS3 is plenty able to get great looking games (some of the best this gen to boot) then why does this matter?

Im not trying to say its worse console,IMO its better worth for money and better built quality than 360 im just trying to back up that RSX is quite inferior to xenos.

I guess. i just dont think matters that much or it effects the end result that much on PS3. I mean, you can look at your 360 and say "yup, that sure has the better GPU" but really, who cares if both consoles are able to dish out great looking stuff that looks roughly about the same or in somecases better on the console with the weaker GPU?

[QUOTE="Bus-A-Bus"]

[QUOTE="XboximusPrime"]

Fine. Again, that dosent make the PS3 a worse console, so why does this matter? IF PS3 is plenty able to get great looking games (some of the best this gen to boot) then why does this matter?

XboximusPrime

Im not trying to say its worse console,IMO its better worth for money and better built quality than 360 im just trying to back up that RSX is quite inferior to xenos.

I guess. i just dont think matters that much or it effects the end result that much on PS3. I mean, you can look at your 360 and say "yup, that sure has the better GPU" but really, who cares if both consoles are able to dish out great looking stuff that looks roughly about the same or in somecases better on the console with the weaker GPU?

honestly, im sure there are lots of flaws in what he is saying. The problem is, most people lack the tech knowledge to argue with him. To me, the games speak for themselves and the PS3 has been shown to be capable of more.

Ill make sure I come back here after I finish a year or 2 of my computer engineering progam.