The strive for realism.....could it potentially ruin gaming?

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Oonga

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#1 Oonga
Member since 2010 • 633 Posts

(Long read)

This is something ive been thinking about for a while and have finally decided to type it up. As gaming evolves, so does our expectations and what we want are games that are closer to real-life. This can be seen by the constant improvement of graphics and animation. Despite that, the only thing that doesnt change is why we play our games, and that is for fun. To entertain ourselves.

Ive been re-playing alot of my PS3 games recently and ive noticed how we're approaching that goal (real-life games). Over the years, ive heard alot of people complain about how alot of PS3 games have 'loose' controls. Truth is, the controls are normal, its just that with our constant push of high graphical/animation fidelity its at a point where characters nearly act like how you would think they would.

Heavenly Sword - When moving Nariko she takes a few steps to get into a running position and once you stop after running, she takes a few more speed slowing steps and stops, a while after the command has been inputted.

Uncharted - Drake moves in a soft manner, when he walks on pebbles he sort of hops, when hes walking up a hill his speed drastically decreases as he lunges and when he takes a forward jump, he stumbles a few steps forward before re-gaining his footing.

Killzone 2 - The analogue controls feel really waited as if you were holding a gun. Move the stick and quickly let go, the gun sort of slides to the left and then recenters. When you also jump/crouch you can notice your character bounce and slightly shake as he gets back into position.

Little Big Planet - You play as a Sackboy and the characters acts as if he was.....a sack. He floats, he patters and moves things realistically according to his being. There are also physics that occur as you would expect them.

There are alot more (on 360/PC too) but im using these as examples ive recently played. Im also not saying that these games are made worse because of how they strive for realism (these games have the perfect balance and are infact made better) but i think this is the first step towards that ultimate goal. The thing is, i dont think that goal will be like anything we want. I mean could you imagine a game where the character takes a really long time to reload, gets out of breath, constantly wobbles etc. Trivial examples but i think you get what i mean. it just seems to undermine the main goal for me, which is fun. I was watching gameplay videos for Vanquish today and wow it felt like a 'game'. Fast movements quick animations although reading comments i heard alot of people complaining how janky they looked.

What do you guys think? this isnt written aswell as i hoped but i think i got the overall message across. Do you think we're heading into that direction of super realism or do you think devs are smart enough to understand the border of enjoyment?

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SaltyMeatballs

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#2 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts
GTA IV is like that a lot. All the animations have to complete. I don't mind those sorts of things, except when it comes to precise control, such as when walking close to the edge of something, when turning back it goes forwards a bit... I hate that!
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bigblunt537

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#3 bigblunt537
Member since 2003 • 6907 Posts

GTA IV is like that a lot. All the animations have to complete. I don't mind those sorts of things, except when it comes to precise control, such as when walking close to the edge of something, when turning back it goes forwards a bit... I hate that!SaltyMeatballs

NBA 2k10 does this and it annoys the **** out of me because they try so hard to make a physics system thats realistic, but int he end it falls on it's face with it being compeltely glitchy and unrealistic imo.

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tehsystemwarior

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#4 tehsystemwarior
Member since 2009 • 1812 Posts
I think in a lot of cases it ruins the skill aspect of the game.(CoD and Halo, TF2 only exception probably being counterstrike.)
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Kokuro_Kun

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#5 Kokuro_Kun
Member since 2009 • 2339 Posts
Man, i'm glad to see a thread about this somewhat deep. I've noticed this myself how people say it seems like the games are linear as if the games are played for you with the press of a button. Not the case, its just more motion is taken at a simple control press. Realism, IMO, isn't killing gaming its making it much better. I do however think certain kinds of games should still stay with their "fake" or "arcade" look and feel. Killzone and Uncharted show these things the most to my memory and i love it, it makes everything more satisfying to see the full animation follow through after a kill or fall from a high place.
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TalesofRaGnArOk

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#6 TalesofRaGnArOk
Member since 2007 • 3189 Posts

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

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Yangire

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#7 Yangire
Member since 2010 • 8795 Posts

It surely makes things less interesting, I have enough realism in real life.

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NoobisMaxcimus

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#8 NoobisMaxcimus
Member since 2007 • 2893 Posts

GTA IV is like that a lot. All the animations have to complete. I don't mind those sorts of things, except when it comes to precise control, such as when walking close to the edge of something, when turning back it goes forwards a bit... I hate that!SaltyMeatballs

That was really annoying in gta4.

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AAllxxjjnn

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#9 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
Not at all. It makes the characters feel more believable. And those games for the most part control very well.
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Lethalhazard

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#10 Lethalhazard
Member since 2009 • 5451 Posts
I definitely don't like realism in games. Sometimes companies go overboard with it and it kills creativity.
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felipebo

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#11 felipebo
Member since 2009 • 4170 Posts

The reason I play games is so I escape realism's crushing boredom, so why would I want to put what I'm trying to get away from in the solution?

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Nintendo_Ownes7

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#12 Nintendo_Ownes7
Member since 2005 • 30973 Posts

The reason I play games is so I escape realism's crushing boredom, so why would I want to put what I'm trying to get away from in the solution?

felipebo

I agree I would like some unrealistic physics relative to what is realistic on Earth.

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Zero_epyon

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#13 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20497 Posts

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

TalesofRaGnArOk

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

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Giant_Panda

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#14 Giant_Panda
Member since 2007 • 982 Posts

I'd say that games are trying to approach realism in atmosphere and presentation, not necessarily mimic real life.

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Nintendo_Ownes7

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#15 Nintendo_Ownes7
Member since 2005 • 30973 Posts

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Zero_epyon

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

Well in that game all of the Guns are exactly the same their are ways to change guns. Killzone 3 takes place on another Planet right? Well they why does it have a primative Weopon if this is suppose to be the future. I can see Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare 2 weopons because of that time period.

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StealthMonkey4

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#16 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts

Some games are realistic and it's better for the experience they are trying to achieve. Others stray away from realism and try to convey an idea or emotion.

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StealthMonkey4

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#17 StealthMonkey4
Member since 2009 • 7434 Posts

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"]

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Nintendo_Ownes7

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

Well in that game all of the Guns are exactly the same their are ways to change guns. Killzone 3 takes place on another Planet right? Well they why does it have a primative Weopon if this is suppose to be the future. I can see Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare 2 weopons because of that time period.

It's just a machine gun with a sight...

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bigblunt537

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#18 bigblunt537
Member since 2003 • 6907 Posts

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Ownes7"]

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"] I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

StealthMonkey4

Well in that game all of the Guns are exactly the same their are ways to change guns. Killzone 3 takes place on another Planet right? Well they why does it have a primative Weopon if this is suppose to be the future. I can see Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare 2 weopons because of that time period.

It's just a machine gun with a sight...

Yeah the gun is COMPLETELY different. the only similarity is the acog (or whatever type of scopre it is)on top...

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lowe0

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#19 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

The problem with realism from a control standpoint is that since all of our interface devices are abstractions anyway, except in fairly basic cases (pointing with the Wiimote, for example), one can add so much realism that it prevents the interface from effectively translating the user's wishes into action. The best example of this is Trespasser - the game's interface for aiming a pistol was realistic in terms ofthe arm motionsit allowed, but it hindered the player from shooting accurately.

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Cherokee_Jack

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#20 Cherokee_Jack
Member since 2008 • 32198 Posts
It's done the damage that it will do. I feel a shift back to less realism already.
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Zero_epyon

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#21 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20497 Posts

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"]

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Nintendo_Ownes7

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

Well in that game all of the Guns are exactly the same their are ways to change guns. Killzone 3 takes place on another Planet right? Well they why does it have a primative Weopon if this is suppose to be the future. I can see Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare 2 weopons because of that time period.

The gun in the KZ pic is not the same as the other 3. The KZ gun is an M82-G Assualt rifle not an M4. The reason one would think it's the same is because of the attachment. Who's to say we won't be using bullets that far into the future. Halo is set 500 years from now and they still use bullets against the covenant. I just don't understand this whole thing. A company makes an FPS that means no one else can or the gaming industry collapses? There can't be any other kinds of stories, set pieces and characters. Yes these things exist in shooters and is why they're so popular.

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Zero_epyon

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#22 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20497 Posts

The reason I play games is so I escape realism's crushing boredom, so why would I want to put what I'm trying to get away from in the solution?

felipebo
I see nothing realistic about getting shot 8 times, crouching down behind a corner and getting back up for more bullet abuse. :P
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SaltyMeatballs

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#23 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts

The reason I play games is so I escape realism's crushing boredom, so why would I want to put what I'm trying to get away from in the solution?

felipebo
There are some things people don't do in real life... like shoot people in the face.
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Leejjohno

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#24 Leejjohno
Member since 2005 • 13897 Posts

No. Believe it or not but the only reason people play games for long periods of time is they feel connected somehow. The more realistic a game is, the easier to lose yourself in them. That was most likely the principle behind the flawed mechanics of GTA IV and Red Dead. Everything in red dead is designed to behave in a certain or random ways. One of the game's biggest selling points is the ragdoll physics system being crossed with animations to create seemingly random and infinite gameplay quirks and occurances that exist in no other game. This seems to work as shooting people and objects never seems to get old in that game.

Put in another way, Modern Warfare looks mechanical and orchestrated by comparison, and some people find they lose interest in the gameplay quickly.

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felipebo

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#25 felipebo
Member since 2009 • 4170 Posts

[QUOTE="felipebo"]

The reason I play games is so I escape realism's crushing boredom, so why would I want to put what I'm trying to get away from in the solution?

SaltyMeatballs

There are some things people don't do in real life... like shoot people in the face.

What are you talking about? I do that.

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Jesus_on_fire

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#26 Jesus_on_fire
Member since 2008 • 2022 Posts

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

TalesofRaGnArOk

If i had a nickel for every time someone posted that image...

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juden41

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#27 juden41
Member since 2010 • 4447 Posts
I actually really like realism and the attention to detail developers and animators pay when trying to strive it. The accuracy they get often impresses me, so no, I can't say I disapprove. Even if the character becomes 'weaker' for having to stumble on the ground or pant for breath due to the realism, that kind of gameplay element actually allures me and makes the game more exciting. Stalker- Shadow of Chernobyl seemed to do that to an extent and that is one of my favorites. :)
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Zero_epyon

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#28 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20497 Posts

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Jesus_on_fire

If i had a nickel for every time someone posted that image...

What's worse is when you call them out on it they can't defend it. They're just doing it because it was cool for 5 seconds 3 weeks ago, which is like 5 nerd years.
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jrhawk42

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#29 jrhawk42
Member since 2003 • 12764 Posts

realism is part of artistic revolution. With every art form artist look to master realism, then they become more abstract until a new break through and then artist try mastering realism again. Same thing with video games. Developers try to master realism, but the problem is the next break through is right around the corner. The medium is moving so fast nobody really has time to catch up.

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#30 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts

I'd say games striving to be like movies is ruining gaming more than realistic animations.

In games like zelda I wish Link would maybe slow down a bit.

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LegatoSkyheart

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#31 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

Thank you Nintendo! For not taking Games to the Realistic path.

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W1NGMAN-

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#32 W1NGMAN-
Member since 2008 • 10109 Posts
What games besides the obvious like sim sports and racers really strive for realism? Just because a game is trying to protray real life visually doesn't mean it's goal is to make a realisic playing game.
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smashed_pinata

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#33 smashed_pinata
Member since 2005 • 3747 Posts

I think its the complete opposite. The closest we get to virtual reality the better. Think of how awesome that could be, and i think realism is the building blocks for it.

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kontejner44

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#34 kontejner44
Member since 2006 • 2025 Posts

Shooting for realistic gameplay is not smart as it really limits it.

Realistic presentation is something that is just going to grow though, as there is demand for that.

I have no issue with presentation, but if the gameplay gets a hit thanks to realism, I will be hatin' that game.

Simply put, yes I want my characters to actually walk and feel some kind of gravitational pull, but I don't want them to get tired after running because it would be boring to sit and wait for your character to rest, so yeah I think there is a limit of how much realistic a game can get before it becomes universally boring.

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Foliage-King

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#35 Foliage-King
Member since 2010 • 720 Posts

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"]

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Nintendo_Ownes7

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

Well in that game all of the Guns are exactly the same their are ways to change guns. Killzone 3 takes place on another Planet right? Well they why does it have a primative Weopon if this is suppose to be the future. I can see Medal of Honor and Modern Warfare 2 weopons because of that time period.

Killzone 2 weapon has advance weapons. So it doesn't have unrealistic lazer beams so what.

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Wolfetan

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#36 Wolfetan
Member since 2010 • 7522 Posts

It surely makes things less interesting, I have enough realism in real life.

Yangire
Hmmm... not mine.
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toxicmog

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#37 toxicmog
Member since 2006 • 6355 Posts

It surely makes things less interesting, I have enough realism in real life.

Yangire
Agreed :P Instead at some point it will kill gaming. Final Fantasy will never take the realistic look, the fans like the art style. Having an artistic direction instead of gritty realism will always triumph. Currently the realistic games are looking the same. The one that stands out in the most 'realistic visual' is Uncharted but that is because of the jungle. If it was also set in gun metal gray world like Gears, Killzone, Medal of Honour, or CoD then the games industry would be very dull.
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#38 Foliage-King
Member since 2010 • 720 Posts

This is why I prefer ps2 graphics > ps3. KH2 > anything on ps3 360 and PC this gen

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toxicmog

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#39 toxicmog
Member since 2006 • 6355 Posts

[QUOTE="TalesofRaGnArOk"]

fffuuuu

Pretty sure that this is the reason gaming could be ruined

Zero_epyon

I've seen this picture floating around a lot and don't see the point of it. FPS is a genre and all games in that Genre will be identical. There's no real way of changing up the way a gun looks in your hand, getting shot and having people shooting at you. Take a look at RPG's. They all have character stats you can improve, dialogue, exploration and branching story lines in some cases. Does that mean the genre is boring and killing gaming? Or how about sandbox games. All do exploration to a limit, have side missions, character upgrades, and branching story lines. I don't know why people are picking of FPS's as if they're the only ones doing this.

The point it makes is that they look identical. Throw Boderlands into the mix and you have an FPS game with a killer art **** that stands out from the crowd, realism will just make everything look the same.