The Wii has brought gaming to a bigger crowd why is it all bad?

The Wii is currently expanding the gaming market by having people who've never played games before play and those who just played once in a while actually play games a little more often (Wii Sports addicts).

So far on these boards I've seen nothing but negativity on this.

"But they don't play hardcore games like Oblivion or Rainbow Six Vegas!"

"But the casuals are stupid and don't like the HD!"

Being honest here I don't see why it's such a negative thing.

I mean so far I've seen it done some possitive things.

The pack-in is an example. Face it Nintendo made the pack-in essential again with Wii Sports. Now when I buy a Xbox 360 I get 2 games Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and one of those games is one I'd actually want to play! The Playstation 3 now comes with Motorstorm which some have titled it a "must have game". The best thing about this is that I don't really pay more to get these games I just get them.

The second example I've noticed is fluid controls. Super Mario Galaxy's controls feel as smooth as a smoothy. Metroid Prime 3's controls are just as complex as the previous ones yet uses very few buttons. SSX Blur is just steer with the Nunchuck and flip the Remote to do tricks, no more of that frantic button mashing. Many more developers are thinking how to easy the interface in their games so the controls are so much more easier to well control.

The third example is game length. People in this forum can look past this because they try to buy as many games as possible,but the average game player actually wants their money worth. Many games (especially exclusives) on the PS3/360 are pretty short. Many don't even pass the 10 hour mark. However most single player Wii games are just as long as the games of the last generation, so gamers get more for their buck.

- These are just some of the things that have happen so far.

- There could be many more:

- Cut down load times.

- Stop with the 10 minute cutscenes.

- More polished pacing in games (especially amongst difficulty like Super Mario Galaxy has done)

- More focus on local play (Every other day I see a "Where are the fighting games?" or "I want split-screen in my shooters!" thread.

- Stop with the constant releases of games (most non-gaming enthuiasts don't feel like buying the same game in one series every year)

etc.

And please nobody say that "They're kill gaming" crap. And you're free to express your opinion if you want, but if you say "Their dumb down our games" someone in the thread will probably counter that because so many franchises have been casualized this generation that weren't even on the Wii.

i don't know about you but seeing some teenagers a store saying the wii's sports games are awesome just makes me want to vomit voilently, bringing gaming to a bigger crowd is unavoidable because like any business that makes money they eventually want to expand and make more, but it is not a good thing, having clueless people buy absolute crap just because they don't know anything about it is a horrible thing, which is all bringing it to a "bigger crowd" has done".

oh and your post seems to contradict itself a bit,

It could be because some people maybe consider gaming their thing, and when everyone else starts to do it, they might feel invaded. First thing that came to my mind.helbent_revenge

I think you're right, those so called hardcore gamers that complain about the Wii no doubt are insecure about their gamerhood. :)

i don't know about you but seeing some teenagers a store saying the wii's sports games are awesome just makes me want to vomit voilently, bringing gaming to a bigger crowd is unavoidable because like any business that makes money they eventually want to expand and make more, but it is not a good thing, having clueless people buy absolute crap just because they don't know anything about it is a horrible thing, which is all bringing it to a "bigger crowd" has done".

oh and your post seems to contradict itself a bit,

game_fanatic

The thing that bugs me is seeing a bunch of teenage boys going on and on about how all the current online FPS games areamazingly cool because of guns and graphics. I have plenty of friends who are this way--I actually know a guy who loves his "hardcore" FPS's so much that he dislikes HL2 because he just wants to "pop some heads" and not think at all.

Gaming is already casualized.

Hardcores feel special because gaming is usually known as a niche form of entertainment, unlike movies and music. They're afraid of it getting popular. The same thing happens when an indie band goes major, the old hardcore supporters complain like little children, but the band rakes in more money because they've become far more appealing to the mainstream. Nintendo has went the same route and it's a good thing. Maybe us gamers can get those "nerd" tags removed, but probably not.BioShockOwnz

This is so true. I still remember my metal head aquintences getting upset that DragonForce and Children of Bodom started to get popular.

The more popular something gets, the more watered down it eventually gets, thats my opinion, Mario Galaxy is an amazing game, but the more popular video games get in general the more we'll see of monopolys forming and a new-age type hollywood showing up, there will be more jobs but at the same time artistic value will become less and less frequent, I love games, movies, and music, and im sure everyone knows about the music/movies business and all of its corrupt glory when it comes to creative freedom, so I honestly dont want games to get sucked into that hole and become a mass form of entertainment for EVERY single person.shadyd1717

Nintendo's new way of gaming is solely about being artistic and unique in game developement.

Only paranoid gamers are affraid of what the wii stands for.

The whole "the wii is killing gameing argument" is as laughable as " Sony will drop out of the console race this gen" argument.

Nintendo's new way of gaming is solely about being artistic and unique in game developement.

Gunraidan

Usually the first step is by someone who meant no harm, I have no doubt that the Wii is artistic-based, seeing as its not high-end with graphics, the main purpose is gameplay and having a fun experience, but I mean marketing to people who have no clue about games in general and think of it as a toy that you buy your 5 year old who cant even play Mario Galaxy because he has no concept of gravity. Or older people trying to be "in" or "hip" with the times thinking they'll be closer to their children if they get the Wii, that kinda stuff disgusts me lmao, there has to be a gap between generations imo, I dont like merging all of it. I just really dont want games to become your average corny action/suspense movie that hollywood churns out every weekend, every great film now is like independent with a few exceptions, same with music and mainstream imo, I dont want games to turn into a mainstream/underground where mainstream has a million FPS on the shelf and underground has all the games with the good stories, and the reason for that was because EVERYBODY got into games, TV is EVERYONES way of entertainment, and look how many reality shows are on it because companies cater to dumb people.

The more popular something gets, the more watered down it eventually gets, thats my opinion, Mario Galaxy is an amazing game, but the more popular video games get in general the more we'll see of monopolys forming and a new-age type hollywood showing up, there will be more jobs but at the same time artistic value will become less and less frequent, I love games, movies, and music, and im sure everyone knows about the music/movies business and all of its corrupt glory when it comes to creative freedom, so I honestly dont want games to get sucked into that hole and become a mass form of entertainment for EVERY single person.shadyd1717

I disagree. we're talking about a whole type of entertainment. not just one series or company. look at other forms of entertainment. as the markets got bigger for books more types came out. same thing with radio, then movies and then tv. look at the Internet. at first it was just a bunch of scientists and engineers sharing ideas. now there's a million different things...but guess what? there are still scientists and engineers there sharing ideas and there are more now than the ones that originally used it.

It isn't bad to expand the horizons of video gaming, but the way Nintendo is doing it, well it just doesn't seem like it favours current gamers.

Take nothing away from the Wii, but when a game like WiiSports is the reasonpeoplearebuying a gaming console over something like Metroid 3 or Twilight Princess, then in my opinion, there is a problem. I don't care much about this casuals vs. hardcore thing, because in the end those are just opinions. However, how long do think it will take for publishers, developers, and manufacturers to figure out that, if we can make a game that can please the masses of "casuals" - and I use that term loosely - then why bother with the rest?

The Wii has sold a vast amount of consoles in thanks to it's appeal, and even though gamers can see through the initial WiiSports or WiiFit, and pickup quality titles, it's sales have been driven by the person who thinks "oh this is cool". Also the way Nintendo goes about marketing the Wii is that it's a great, and cheap novelty to have over the high-tech PS3, whose numbers would scare away the new comer, or the Xbox 360 with it's Xbox Live subcription, which screams "hardcore gamer", something that also deters those from buying it.

In essence what I'm trying to get at, is that we could see a watering down affect. I read somewhere about some guy critisizing game reviews for being too leniant and giving a lot of games excellent scores, as apposed to other forms of media which are more scrutinized. I don't think that guy gets that there are people in the video gaming industry that although care about making money, at the same time care equally as much about making a good video game. Will the video gaming genre degrade itself to a level like movies, where you get one good movie out of three dozen bad ones?I don't know. However, do I think that is a possibility? Yes I do.

^^^Appealing games have always sold the best. That's why Cars was the best selling game in the world last year (excluding Madden).

Also the way Nintendo goes about marketing the Wii is that it's a great, and cheap novelty to have over the high-tech PS3, whose numbers would scare away the new comer, or the Xbox 360 with it's Xbox Live subcription, which screams "hardcore gamer", something that also deters those from buying it.elbow2k

Not to put you on the spot here but the irony in this is pretty big.

I disagree. we're talking about a whole type of entertainment. not just one series or company. look at other forms of entertainment. as the markets got bigger for books more types came out. same thing with radio, then movies and then tv. look at the Internet. at first it was just a bunch of scientists and engineers sharing ideas. now there's a million different things...but guess what? there are still scientists and engineers there sharing ideas and there are more now than the ones that originally used it.

Ontain

I agree completly.

i agree. the facts are that mainly lemms seem to think that good hardcore games kill the wii. if that was true, the wii would not be selling and opening up peoples minds to games. it has proven that you dont need detailed graphics and gore. i know people who im go to their houses and im the only wii owner there. they all talk off halo3 and play it. they dont even bother to discuss mario galaxy or anything wii. if i try to discuss all i here is the wii sucks. lemms cant except casual gammers really. most of them are "hardcore" if you will, and arent agreeing to change.

^^^Appealing games have always sold the best. That's why Cars was the best selling game in the world last year (excluding Madden).

[QUOTE="elbow2k"]

Also the way Nintendo goes about marketing the Wii is that it's a great, and cheap novelty to have over the high-tech PS3, whose numbers would scare away the new comer, or the Xbox 360 with it's Xbox Live subcription, which screams "hardcore gamer", something that also deters those from buying it.Gunraidan

Not to put you on the spot here but the irony in this is pretty big.

What "irony"?

Mr.Wii himself, Reggie has said that their online service is tailored to the casual audience. Saying that stuff like Xbox Live and PS Network scare off the people Nintendo is trying to bring in.

I still don't see the waterdown effect as something that happens to an industry. there are examples of a band, a movie series, a tv show. but not the whole entertainment industry. increase market has always increase diveristy. sure there will be more things for mainstream but there will be most for all niches as well.

just like on person said there were a lot of reality tv. well sure... but look closely and you'll see there are many niches served. not just "real world" types. but there are ones for models, fashion designing, cooking, etc. would that happen in a world with little market share for tv? no. also while there are a lot of reality tv, are there a lack of dramas? comedies? no. there are plenty of options and more channels to serve every niche.

with newspaper readership going down we're seeing newspapers make cuts. they are going to have less of the niche stuff. the smaller niche papers are going to die out as well.

What "irony"?

elbow2k

Compared to a Gaming PC the PS3 isn't very cutting edge and Xbox Live isn't nearly on par with PC online.

[QUOTE="elbow2k"]

What "irony"?

Gunraidan

Compared to a Gaming PC the PS3 isn't very cutting edge and Xbox Live isn't nearly on par with PC online.

Look at this way. Do the casual masses even know PC gaming exists? No. What are they inclined to buy? A console.

This is excluding all those MMORPGs.

I'm very happy that Nintendo has gone the casual route. Their decision has increased gaming's appeal in so many ways.

I'm also very disheartened becuase 85% of the time they don't make games that catter to me any more...

Look at this way. Do the casual masses even know PC gaming exists?elbow2k

The Sims is the second best selling game of all-time and Blizzards games sell multi-millions so yes.

No.elbow2k

Yes.

What are they inclined to buy? A console.elbow2k

I fail to see the revelance of this or how this matters.I mean I was referring how the PS3 and 360 could be looked at by some as low end PC imitators, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here..

This is excluding all those MMORPGs.

elbow2k

So you admit that they know about PC gaming?

I'm also very disheartened becuase 85% of the time they don't make games that catter to me any more...

TREAL_Since

I'm not sure why people say this. This year alone they released more games for their fanbase then they ever did on the Gamecube.

Metroid Prime 3

Fire Emblem:

Super Paper Mario

Super Mario Galaxy

Batallion Wars 2

Warioware Smoothmoves

And that's just from the top of my head. And the DS needs no explaination. Is there something I'm missing here? (being serious)

The Sims is the second best selling game of all-time and Blizzards games sell multi-millions so yesGunraidan

If you're trying to say that the Sims is an accurate portrayel of PC gaming, then I don't want to be associated with it, because as far as I'm concerned, it's one the same level as a WiiSports or WiiFit.

By the same token, Valve games sell millions of copies as well. Besides I fail to see how that has anything do with this. Half Life 2 and Warcraft 3 sold around 4.5 million copies each because they are both good games. Which is on the same level as what good console games sell; ie. Gears of War has sold around 4.7 million copies.

I fail to see the revelance of this or how this matters.I mean I was referring how the PS3 and 360 could be looked at by some as low end PC imitators, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.. Gunraidan

What is the casual going to buy? A 400 dollar console or a 1000 dollar PC? Even though PC gaming is far from dead, why is that the PC game section of most video game stores, specially EB Games/Gamestop is the smallest around? Consoles are the preferred form of gaming, and are the first thing casuals associate gaming with.

So you admit that they know about PC gaming? elbow2k

Everyone including their grandmothers know about World of Warcraft. They know one game, like the Sims. It's like saying Halo 3 speaks for the console gaming because everyone knows about it.

If you're trying to say that the Sims is an accurate portrayel of PC gaming, then I don't want to be associated with it, because as far as I'm concerned, it's one the same level as a WiiSports or WiiFit.

By the same token, Valve games sell millions of copies as well. Besides I fail to see how that has anything do with this. Half Life 2 and Warcraft 3 sold around 4.5 million copies each because they are both good games. Which is on the same level as what good console games sell; ie. Gears of War has sold around 4.7 million copies.elbow2k

Are we even arguing about something?

What is the casual going to buy? A 400 dollar console or a 1000 dollar PC? Even though PC gaming is far from dead, why is that the PC game section of most video game stores, specially EB Games/Gamestop is the smallest around? Consoles are the preferred form of gaming, and are the first thing casuals associate gaming with. elbow2k

I still don't see what this has to do wtih my thread.

Agreed TC. Does anybody here still remember the epic thread about HARDCORE FISHING?

BTW TC, who's in your sig? What game is it?

You brought in the fact the PC does everything better than the other two consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - when I mentioned how the tech savvy PS3 and the online power of the 360 deter away the casual gamers. Even though you are right on the fact that PC does one up those consoles in those departments, the casual gamer wouldn't know, because he doesn't know about Crysis, he doesn't know about Warcraft 3, he doesn't know about The Orange Box. Sure he'll know about WoW, but then again who doesn't? Just like who doesn't know about Halo 3?

He knows what people tell him, what he reads on magazines, what he sees on billboards, ect. He isn't going to know about PC gaming, and will always think first about console gaming. Which then leads us to exhibit a) Mr.Wii saying that the online services of the other consoles deter the audience that Nintendo is trying to bring in, and b) most casuals would be afraid of the technology associated with the other two because they wouldn't understand. Just like they wouldn't understand why 1080p is better than 480i, all they know is that the former is better, but they don't know the how or they why.

If casuals keep buying crap games there telling Nintendo to change so they can make more of it. Giving people what they want.

because when developers started catering to the casuals, the games on the nintendo console come out as worse than mediocre to a little above mediocre at best. -->third party games of course.

other than that, i think there's little reason to hate the wii. :s

It's not the thought of gaming becoming mainstream that bothers me, I'm glad that more people are getting into gaming. The thing is that new, more casual gamers are likely to buy games like Wii Play and Mario Party 8, which sucks IMO, because it shows devs that they don't need to invest effort into making games in order to turn a profit.

I fear that some devs may abandon the hardcore audience in favor of pushing out games that are mediocre yet still appeal to the casual masses in order to make a large profit without spending much money on development. Im not saying this is true for all of this new demographic, but there is an undeniable pattern.

Bigger crowd is goo n all, but I want more serious adventure games ( no not platformers or action ) ... thrillers n stuff.

And for the female gender to be appeased more, it maybe spreading out, but the narrow minded female opinion ( average person ) is still that games are off-limits.

i don't know about you but seeing some teenagers a store saying the wii's sports games are awesome just makes me want to vomit voilently, bringing gaming to a bigger crowd is unavoidable because like any business that makes money they eventually want to expand and make more, but it is not a good thing, having clueless people buy absolute crap just because they don't know anything about it is a horrible thing, which is all bringing it to a "bigger crowd" has done".

oh and your post seems to contradict itself a bit,

game_fanatic

[QUOTE="game_fanatic"]

i don't know about you but seeing some teenagers a store saying the wii's sports games are awesome just makes me want to vomit voilently, bringing gaming to a bigger crowd is unavoidable because like any business that makes money they eventually want to expand and make more, but it is not a good thing, having clueless people buy absolute crap just because they don't know anything about it is a horrible thing, which is all bringing it to a "bigger crowd" has done".

oh and your post seems to contradict itself a bit,

--ProtoMan--

The thing that bugs me is seeing a bunch of teenage boys going on and on about how all the current online FPS games areamazingly cool because of guns and graphics. I have plenty of friends who are this way--I actually know a guy who loves his "hardcore" FPS's so much that he dislikes HL2 because he just wants to "pop some heads" and not think at all.

Gaming is already casualized.

QFT

I was just reading a thread on here where someone said Call of Duty 4, Halo 3, and some other FPS is way better than Half Life 2 because they are fast paced and full of action. It's hilarious how these people are the same one's complaining how casuals (Wii owners to them) are killing gaming when they fail to realize they also contribute.

Ok so my numbers were a little off but the fact remains that more then half the people that own a Wii arent playing it.Acurev

That's in Japan where the ratio per Wii owner is 2. The PS3 is also very similar with it's ratio so I assume it's the same. These figures proove nothing if you don't have it world-wide.