The Wii is changing gaming -and we all know it.

A while ago I asked myself why do the hardcore hate the Wii? There are two other consoles all catering exclusively to the hardcore crowd so why should they care so much about the little old Wii targeting an expanded audience?

Then it struck me, they hate it because it's changing gaming as we know it. When Low budget games like Wii Fit Carnival games and Wii play can still be selling phenominally well months after it's initial release we know the landscape of gaming is changing dramatically.

A generation of cinematic gaming is closing fast and the Hi-def consoles are going down with the ship. Are you prepared for what's coming next?

The real question should be, is the Wii changing gaming to the better or worse?

I still hope MS & Sony wont follow the steps taken by Nintendo this generation....

The industry would collapse in on itself if all devs were to start only making casual shovelware.-DrRobotnik-

This will never happen as even if it did then it would be like, all shovelware on wii and the good games on PS360 and then next gen the PS4/720 would follow but there are still many developers making great games on the wii so I doubt this would ever happen

The real question should be, is the Wii changing gaming to the better or worse?

I still hope MS & Sony wont follow the steps taken by Nintendo this generation....

Malta_1980

MS kind of has with the 360 arcade

And what if they do follow nintendo next gen?

The main problems with the wii are not enough good 3rd party games, not powerful enough, no storage device etc, but if the Sony/Microsoft made a console then these problems would probably be fixed

How much did Carnival sell exactly? I honestly dont know.

I think Nintendo is catering to both their core audience and the casual. I dont think casual is taking over, just selling as well.

Wii play would NOT sell if it didn't come with a controller, and wii fit is a great workout device that totally taps a different market.

MS is following the steps of N by the casual games of LIPZ, your in the movies, and avatars. And it sounds like motion controllers are on the way. I think all this is just including more to the gaming base, not taking away from the 'hardcore'.

I've often wondered if the ultimate goal of all game companies is to sell out the audiences that helped build them.

Broader audience, simpler, easier and more accessible.

This sells more games at the expense of the 'hardcore' audience, if game developers truly are 100% money driven then this is the case. However I've noticed several instances were developers actively worked against the profitability of a title to maintain their artistic vision, so perhaps there is a little hope for the 'hardcore' audiences.

How much did Carnival sell exactly? I honestly dont know.

I think Nintendo is catering to both their core audience and the casual. I dont think casual is taking over, just selling as well.

Wii play would NOT sell if it didn't come with a controller, and wii fit is a great workout device that totally taps a different market.

MS is following the steps of N by the casual games of LIPZ, your in the movies, and avatars. And it sounds like motion controllers are on the way. I think all this is just including more to the gaming base, not taking away from the 'hardcore'.

flazzle

I think Carnival did about 2m worldwide, but I lost the link with the info. anyway, the casuals make the most of the Wii's userbase, take a look at Wiisports, it doesn't come with the controller, and it's selling like mad, I think that the hardcore gamers who bought only a Wii this gen, are the same people who only owned a gamecube last gen.

Do you think people buy Wiifit to workout, no, they buy it for the same reason they bought Carnival games and Wiisports, it taps the exact same market, casuals.

what the tc fail to understand is hi def gaming is selling very well but on three platform instead of one this is why pc ps3 and 360 share alot of multiplat games ,and the wii have its own game and some multiplat with the ps2.legol1

I haven't failed to understand anything. Hi Def gaming is struggling at best. You know there's a problem when massive games like GTA4 and MGS4 -the cream of the conematic gaming crop-fail at moving any extra consoles. The gap between the Wii and the hi-def consoles is dramatically increasing and every month the NPD serves to highlight just how myopic Sony and microsoft's business strategies are.

I think Carnival did about 2m worldwide, but I lost the link with the info. anyway, the casuals make the most of the Wii's userbase, take a look at Wiisports, it doesn't come with the controller, and it's selling like mad, I think that the hardcore gamers who bought only a Wii this gen, are the same people who only owned a gamecube last gen.

Do you think people buy Wiifit to workout, no, they buy it for the same reason they bought Carnival games and Wiisports, it taps the exact same market, casuals.

qewrewq

I bought Wii fit to workout and its killer. I dont think people bought Carnival games or wii sports to workout. Not every casual game sells like wii fit, or carnvial or wii sports. You logic fails. its quite so simple to say 'its casual.it will sell..

[QUOTE="qewrewq"]

I think Carnival did about 2m worldwide, but I lost the link with the info. anyway, the casuals make the most of the Wii's userbase, take a look at Wiisports, it doesn't come with the controller, and it's selling like mad, I think that the hardcore gamers who bought only a Wii this gen, are the same people who only owned a gamecube last gen.

Do you think people buy Wiifit to workout, no, they buy it for the same reason they bought Carnival games and Wiisports, it taps the exact same market, casuals.

flazzle

I bought Wii fit to workout and its killer. I dont think people bought Carnival games or wii sports to workout. Not every casual game sells like wii fit, or carnvial or wii sports. You logic fails. its quite so simple to say 'its casual.it will sell..

You bought wii fit to workout...wow, ok. that doesn't prove that most people bought it to workout, my logic doesn't fail, they bought it because it looked "fun" and "unique". Or maybe..just maybe, you're right, I guess we'll never know.

I haven't failed to understand anything. Hi Def gaming is struggling at best. You know there's a problem when massive games like GTA4 and MGS4 -the cream of the conematic gaming crop-fail at moving any extra consoles. The gap between the Wii and the hi-def consoles is dramatically increasing and every month the NPD serves to highlight just how myopic Sony and microsoft's business strategies are.

Popadophalis

Well, GTA on the 360 sold more than any other GTA game that was on the XBOX i believe.

I think the problem for systems not moving is that the systems are priced too high for most consumers. Im not saying that price alone moves systems (if that were the case GC would have won last gen), but I think they are high enough to be a deterret. There is also a lot of life left in PS2 so i bet most don't feel compelled to upgrade is my guess

You bought wii fit to workout...wow, ok. that doesn't prove that most people bought it to workout, my logic doesn't fail, they bought it because it looked "fun" and "unique". Or maybe..just maybe, you're right, I guess we'll never know.

qewrewq

My point is there are a lot of casual games that fail. Deca Sports isn't exactly tearing up the charts. Neither is Brunswick bowling. Wii Fit actually has an excellent Yoga setup, as well as strength building. You wouldn't know it, because people immediately mock it.

And I think wii sports is a great game. Especially for launch.

You are. We'll never know.

The real question should be, is the Wii changing gaming to the better or worse?

I still hope MS & Sony wont follow the steps taken by Nintendo this generation....

Malta_1980

what if sony and MS gave up on serious gaming for some fancy gimmick ? i would not like that

[QUOTE="Malta_1980"]

The real question should be, is the Wii changing gaming to the better or worse?

I still hope MS & Sony wont follow the steps taken by Nintendo this generation....

ps3wizard45

what if sony and MS gave up on serious gaming for some fancy gimmick ? i would not like that

The reason Wii lacks in that area is because the core audience is on the 360/PS3, so devs choose to make "hardcore" games for them instead. If all consoles were like Wii the core games would split evenly between them all, they wouldn't just disappear.

[QUOTE="ps3wizard45"][QUOTE="Malta_1980"]

The real question should be, is the Wii changing gaming to the better or worse?

I still hope MS & Sony wont follow the steps taken by Nintendo this generation....

mr_mozilla

what if sony and MS gave up on serious gaming for some fancy gimmick ? i would not like that

The reason Wii lacks in that area is because the core audience is on the 360/PS3, so devs choose to make "hardcore" games for them instead. If all consoles were like Wii the core games would split evenly between them all, they wouldn't just disappear.

yes i understand your points.... i dont think Sony and MS would make consoles which are inferior technically to the current ones... also they will probably better the online services they currently have, so most probably their next-gen consoles would have more variety and have the same 'hardcore' games + new IP's and more 'casual' games to attract a larger audience...

if that would be the case then we would have the perfect mix... in the end its always up to devs to produce quality titles since you may have the most powerful console in the market but if devs are lazy and want to produce mediocre titles which are cheaper (cost-wise) to produce but still sell, that's what they'll do... its all about making profit in the end...

I've often wondered if the ultimate goal of all game companies is to sell out the audiences that helped build them.

Broader audience, simpler, easier and more accessible.

This sells more games at the expense of the 'hardcore' audience, if game developers truly are 100% money driven then this is the case. However I've noticed several instances were developers actively worked against the profitability of a title to maintain their artistic vision, so perhaps there is a little hope for the 'hardcore' audiences.

AnnoyedDragon

It all depends on what the big 3 make next gen, this gen the 'hardcore' are pretty much safe BUT we will see the changes the wii has made to the market next gen, if you think about it the wii has even made a big impact even in this early stage of this gen, Sony and MS both had their buissness plans fimly set on Cinematic gaming but we have seen changes in this 2 year period of the wii supremecy

the 360 has tried to do 'casual' games and so has the PS3, we shall see how they all structure their buissneses for the next gen of consoles, will they sell out? will they just try and emulate the nintendo casual sucess, the truth is the real damage to the gaming industry is yet to be seen

It all depends on what the big 3 make next gen, this gen the 'hardcore' are pretty much safe BUT we will see the changes the wii has made to the market next gen, if you think about it the wii has even made a big impact even in this early stage of this gen, Sony and MS both had their buissness plans fimly set on Cinematic gaming but we have seen changes in this 2 year period of the wii supremecy

the 360 has tried to do 'casual' games and so has the PS3, we shall see how they all structure their buissneses for the next gen of consoles, will they sell out? will they just try and emulate the nintendo casual sucess, the truth is the real damage to the gaming industry is yet to be seen

BoloTheGreat

I imagine if Sony and microsoft don't change they will face some serious financial problems. The amount of money the two companies have lost on their consoles thus far is staggering.

[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"]

It all depends on what the big 3 make next gen, this gen the 'hardcore' are pretty much safe BUT we will see the changes the wii has made to the market next gen, if you think about it the wii has even made a big impact even in this early stage of this gen, Sony and MS both had their buissness plans fimly set on Cinematic gaming but we have seen changes in this 2 year period of the wii supremecy

the 360 has tried to do 'casual' games and so has the PS3, we shall see how they all structure their buissneses for the next gen of consoles, will they sell out? will they just try and emulate the nintendo casual sucess, the truth is the real damage to the gaming industry is yet to be seen

Popadophalis

I imagine if Sony and microsoft don't change they will face some serious financial problems. The amount of money the two companies have lost on their consoles thus far is staggering.

actually overall MS gaming devision has made a profit (i think, its kinda hazey), sony has also made a profit with the PS2 but lost alot with the PSP, the PS3 numbers are embarassing too. hopefully they won't but money speaks louder than screaming gamers as Ninty as no doubt proved be refusing to even throw a bone to its loyal audience this year.

MS ans Sony will probably piss all over us gamers clambering for the casual market, then again if that market gets to crowded and the Wii ans nintendo are already so will known/established we could see massive losses if they go in the deep end expecting Wii sales, also the market coult turn sour and the fickle public could lose intrest in gaming alltogether so i guess we are at least a stable audience to milk...

i guess i just hope they see that casual/crappy =/= sucess and the wii has had a combination of luck and timing to get where it is.

Gamers hate change, it's the truth, that's why they hate the Wii. Look at any game series that changes and people will always bash the change, RE for example when 4 came out, all the RE fans hated it for changing things up, Fallout 3, everyone hates on it for changing the series. Gamers just seem to hate change but I seriously don't know why, it's like they just want gaming to stagnate and die, do they not realise that unless gaming changes then new people won't be gaming in 10 years time, and I doubt they'll be playing in 10 years time, why do you think so many people who started gaming with like the NES still play today? Because of the changes games have gone through, if we were still playing with 2d sprites and playing loads of platformers and beat em ups, none of those people would still be gaming.bobbetybob

Hardcore gamers don't hate the Wii, shallow gamers hate the Wii.

There is more shovelware on the PC, PS2 and PS1 individually.

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point. I can maybe understand that if you can't afford a PC that you might have a 360, but the games on that system are so watered down compared to PC that its sad. So you guys go QQ somewhere else.

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point.

DaBrainz

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point.

angelkimne

almost...almost sig worthy...

[QUOTE="angelkimne"][QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point.

Pinkyimp

almost...almost sig worthy...

Oh man, the truth hurts donnit? Let's say you have a PC, why would you have an xbox or PS3? MGS4? One exclusive game that I wouldn't be able to play on my PC that would be worth my time. You only mock me because you cannot argue my point.

I've often wondered if the ultimate goal of all game companies is to sell out the audiences that helped build them.

Broader audience, simpler, easier and more accessible.

This sells more games at the expense of the 'hardcore' audience, if game developers truly are 100% money driven then this is the case. However I've noticed several instances were developers actively worked against the profitability of a title to maintain their artistic vision, so perhaps there is a little hope for the 'hardcore' audiences.

AnnoyedDragon

Can you name these examples? I'd like to hear them... because my major denies that this happens...

A generation of cinematic gaming is closing fast and the Hi-def consoles are going down with the ship. Are you prepared for what's coming next?

Popadophalis

HD consoles with motion sensing so that "cinematic games" also incorporate them? because you know that all next gen consoles will be HD right? or do you really think the next gen will go back to SD?

The "hardcore" dislike the Wii because it could encourage M$ and Sony to produce more "non-hardcore" games to compete with it.

Uvavooh

What's wrong with making games for everyone? Only the hardcore audience should be allowed to play games?

I think some of you have forgotten that Nintendo still makes hardcore games. In fact, they've released more hardcore than casual software this gen.

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point.

DaBrainz

Nintendo has warped your mind young padawan.

Sony has been making casual games since last gen (Singstar, Buzz, and Eye Toy). Singstar and Buzz sold very well but you didnt see them running to push aside all development for games similar to them. Eye Pet, Afrika, and the Eye of Judgment are what could be considered casual games but I dont care because Sony doesnt focus too much on games like that, they dont build their gaming press confrences around them. And people critisize wii's casual games so much because most of them are so cheap looking. People will rarely critisize games like Afrika because they look so sophisticated.TheGrat1

1) Nintendo didn't push aside all development for casual games.

2)Sony should build their gaming press confrence around those games if they want to sell consoles and games... They don't need to tell you or me about MGS4, or R&CQFB... we will find out anyway, via the internet... they need to tell non-gamers and casual gamers who don't spend their time reading gaming news...

3)Wii causal games do look cheap... Afrika doesn't look sophisticated...

I think some of you have forgotten that Nintendo still makes hardcore games. In fact, they've released more hardcore than casual software this gen.

Rocky32189

I do belive they released more Core First party games in a year then either Sony or MS.

[QUOTE="DaBrainz"]

True gamers recognize that the Wii is the only console worth owning at this point.

TheGrat1

Nintendo has warped your mind young padawan.

Actually I've been gaming since the early 80's, can I be a Nintendo Jedi?!

It is not the first time such discussion arises. I lived something extremely similar about 15 years ago. We were living in the untouchable reign of Nintendo, and, unexpectedly, a new console was born. The Sony Play Station. I remember quite well the reaction of most Nintendo fans (undenyable hardcore):

"The PS is not for true gamers"

"These new gamers are ruining the industry"

"Only Nintendo makes games for the true gamers"

"The PS has no games for true gamers, Lara Croft is just a sexual atraction and Tekken is not Street Fighter"

Sounds familiar? Just that the words "true" and "new" have evolved in "core" and "casual", but the essence is the same. Gamers have always been afraid of changes, and innecessary elitist, must I add.

Back to 1995. Did the PS brand ruin the industry? Were those "new gamers" really a bad thing? Was expanding the market to new levels that awful? No, no and hell no. Expanding the market was the best thing to happen to this industry, and the Play Station brand evolved to be that monster that the PS2 was.

Yes, you can argue what you want, that the Wii is that or that, that the Wii is "for teh kiddyz", "soccer moms" (what is an extremely riddiculous argument) etc etc, or that it will never do what the PS did, but, at this point, no one knows. Yes, the Wii is not, by no means, the PS2, but the situation seems similar to the one of the original PS, to me at least..

But, after what happened 15 years ago, I'm more than glad to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.

Besides, Mario Galaxy rocks.

[QUOTE="TheGrat1"]Sony has been making casual games since last gen (Singstar, Buzz, and Eye Toy). Singstar and Buzz sold very well but you didnt see them running to push aside all development for games similar to them. Eye Pet, Afrika, and the Eye of Judgment are what could be considered casual games but I dont care because Sony doesnt focus too much on games like that, they dont build their gaming press confrences around them. And people critisize wii's casual games so much because most of them are so cheap looking. People will rarely critisize games like Afrika because they look so sophisticated.GundamGuy0

1) Nintendo didn't push aside all development for casual games.

2)Sony should build their gaming press confrence around those games if they want to sell consoles and games... They don't need to tell you or me about MGS4, or R&CQFB... we will find out anyway, via the internet... they need to tell non-gamers and casual gamers who don't spend their time reading gaming news...

3)Wii causal games do look cheap... Afrika doesn't look sophisticated...

I agree with points 1 and 2.

on point 3 i would say that Afrika is just Endless Ocean on land. That game did not feel cheap. of course Afrika looks better but that's more about hardware than the software.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

I've often wondered if the ultimate goal of all game companies is to sell out the audiences that helped build them.

Broader audience, simpler, easier and more accessible.

This sells more games at the expense of the 'hardcore' audience, if game developers truly are 100% money driven then this is the case. However I've noticed several instances were developers actively worked against the profitability of a title to maintain their artistic vision, so perhaps there is a little hope for the 'hardcore' audiences.

GundamGuy0

Can you name these examples? I'd like to hear them... because my major denies that this happens...

Kojima-sama with MGS4. He didnt want to sacrafice what made MGS4, MGS4 just to make some more yen by porting to 360. Understand? I know it looks wierd to read.

It is not the first time such discussion arises. I lived something extremely similar about 15 years ago. We were living in the untouchable reign of Nintendo, and, unexpectedly, a new console was born. The Sony Play Station. I remember quite well the reaction of most Nintendo fans (undenyable hardcore):

"The PS is not for true gamers"

"These new gamers are ruining the industry"

"Only Nintendo makes games for the true gamers"

"The PS has no games for true gamers, Lara Croft is just a sexual atraction and Tekken is not Street Fighter"

Sounds familiar? Just that the words "true" and "new" have evolved in "core" and "casual", but the essence is the same. Gamers have always been afraid of changes, and innecessary elitist, must I add.

Back to 1995. Did the PS brand ruin the industry? Were those "new gamers" really a bad thing? Was expanding the market to new levels that awful? No, no and hell no. Expanding the market was the best thing to happen to this industry, and the Play Station brand evolved to be that monster that the PS2 was.

Yes, you can argue what you want, that the Wii is that or that, that the Wii is "for teh kiddyz", etc etc, or that it will never do what the PS did, but, at this point, no one knows. Yes, the Wii is not, by no means, the PS2, but the situation seems similar to the one of the original PS, to me at least..

But, after what happened 15 years ago, I'm more than glad to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.

Besides, Mario Galaxy rocks.

IronBass

There real question is...

Are you happy with your Wii as a standalone console?

Do you actually own more than Wii?

If yes, is Wii your primary console over (x360-ps3-PC or whatever you got)??

Answer for yourself and youll see that.... simply CANT live this gen only with Wii... You lose TOOOOO much to mention.. Now youll say me about sales... I dont play sales so sorry dont get what you mean... Because Wii is way more appealing to kids,casuals and selling like crazy , has also the best games around? Dont think so.. And actually thats a fact...

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

It is not the first time such discussion arises. I lived something extremely similar about 15 years ago. We were living in the untouchable reign of Nintendo, and, unexpectedly, a new console was born. The Sony Play Station. I remember quite well the reaction of most Nintendo fans (undenyable hardcore):

"The PS is not for true gamers"

"These new gamers are ruining the industry"

"Only Nintendo makes games for the true gamers"

"The PS has no games for true gamers, Lara Croft is just a sexual atraction and Tekken is not Street Fighter"

Sounds familiar? Just that the words "true" and "new" have evolved in "core" and "casual", but the essence is the same. Gamers have always been afraid of changes, and innecessary elitist, must I add.

Back to 1995. Did the PS brand ruin the industry? Were those "new gamers" really a bad thing? Was expanding the market to new levels that awful? No, no and hell no. Expanding the market was the best thing to happen to this industry, and the Play Station brand evolved to be that monster that the PS2 was.

Yes, you can argue what you want, that the Wii is that or that, that the Wii is "for teh kiddyz", etc etc, or that it will never do what the PS did, but, at this point, no one knows. Yes, the Wii is not, by no means, the PS2, but the situation seems similar to the one of the original PS, to me at least..

But, after what happened 15 years ago, I'm more than glad to give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt.

Besides, Mario Galaxy rocks.

DireToad

That's argueable. I never liked the PS1. The N64 was a lot better, Imo.

It's not about market expansion and elitism and whatever. It all comes down to the games. And the Wii lacks in that department compared to the other systems.

That 's also argueable. Don't forget that reviews has never meant anything for the people out there. Yup, you can call the "casual", or "uninformed" or whatever, but true is, that overall the people is happy with their Wiis, and every time that auddience gets bigger. So, it can be said the Wii also rocks.

There real question is...

Are you happy with your Wii as a standalone console?

Do you actually own more than Wii?

If yes, is Wii your primary console over (x360-ps3-PC or whatever you got)??

Answer for yourself and youll see that.... simply CANT live this gen only with Wii... You lose TOOOOO much to mention.. Now youll say me about sales... I dont play sales so sorry dont get what you mean... Because Wii is way more appealing to kids,casuals and selling like crazy , has also the best games around? Dont think so.. And actually thats a fact...

AzatiS

You can say that about every console. If you pick only one console, whatever it is, you'll be missing a lot.

And that argument also works in the other way, not having a Wii also means missing a lot of true masterpieces.

And the quality of game will never be a "fact". It is something absolutely subjective.

But the point is that the PS1 rocked. The Wii, does not.

DireToad

That's your opinion.