What happen to giving the customers: CHOICES?

I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.jonnelson1980

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Seems to me its just too hard to make games without the feature. MS is not at fault, they didn't force them to buy it.immortality20

The original xbox all have a hard drive inside but with the core, MS took it out. People bought it cause it was cheaper thinking it will allow them to play all the games. Now MS is changing that. How is that not MS's fault? If this was sony, you would be all over it?

Just like when people posted RROD was happening a lot on 360, Lems ignore it and kept ignoring it. And guess what, MS extending their warranty to 3yr shortly afterward. Then lems rally behind MS like it is the next messiah. Talk about blind faith.

i agree with the TC.

MS should have thought of these. Next Gen is coming and they are the least prepared for it.

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.gamenux

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Consumers are generally stupid and can't be trusted to make intelligent choices for most products they buy. I know people don't like hearing that but it's a fact. This is only proven by most of the fanboy arguements that happen here where most base the console purchase on emotion, personal vendetas against a company, rumour, or simple impulse.

Neither MS nor Sony should have provided console choice. They should have released one product and toldc onsumers to take it or leave it. Instead they are going to go mad trying to make everyone who buys every SKU happy which only causes problems for developers (HDD or no hdd, 1080p or no 1080p), retailers (shelf space) and themselves (support or end a sku?).

M$ botched it. The HDD should have never been optional.myke2010

Does anyone know how much a harddrive would cost if MS included it in the CORE initially?

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.gamenux

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Customer choices dissapeared when customers like you showed up.It just wasn't a wise decision anymore.

[QUOTE="myke2010"]M$ botched it. The HDD should have never been optional.gamenux

Does anyone know how much a harddrive would cost if MS included it in the CORE initially?

[QUOTE="gamenux"]

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.ZIMdoom

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Consumers are generally stupid and can't be trusted to make intelligent choices for most products they buy. I know people don't like hearing that but it's a fact. This is only proven by most of the fanboy arguements that happen here where most base the console purchase on emotion, personal vendetas against a company, rumour, or simple impulse.

Neither MS nor Sony should have provided console choice. They should have released one product and toldc onsumers to take it or leave it. Instead they are going to go mad trying to make everyone who buys every SKU happy which only causes problems for developers (HDD or no hdd, 1080p or no 1080p), retailers (shelf space) and themselves (support or end a sku?).

Totally agree with you on that. The multiple SKUs are just confusing the casual gamers. Mom walks in and just buy the cheap SKU. They should have stick with 1 SKU like nintendo.

[QUOTE="gamenux"]

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.ZIMdoom

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Consumers are generally stupid and can't be trusted to make intelligent choices for most products they buy. I know people don't like hearing that but it's a fact. This is only proven by most of the fanboy arguements that happen here where most base the console purchase on emotion, personal vendetas against a company, rumour, or simple impulse.

Neither MS nor Sony should have provided console choice. They should have released one product and toldc onsumers to take it or leave it. Instead they are going to go mad trying to make everyone who buys every SKU happy which only causes problems for developers (HDD or no hdd, 1080p or no 1080p), retailers (shelf space) and themselves (support or end a sku?).

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="gamenux"]

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.gamenux

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Consumers are generally stupid and can't be trusted to make intelligent choices for most products they buy. I know people don't like hearing that but it's a fact. This is only proven by most of the fanboy arguements that happen here where most base the console purchase on emotion, personal vendetas against a company, rumour, or simple impulse.

Neither MS nor Sony should have provided console choice. They should have released one product and toldc onsumers to take it or leave it. Instead they are going to go mad trying to make everyone who buys every SKU happy which only causes problems for developers (HDD or no hdd, 1080p or no 1080p), retailers (shelf space) and themselves (support or end a sku?).

Totally agree with you on that. The multiple SKUs are just confusing the casual gamers. Mom walks in and just buy the cheap SKU. They should have stick with 1 SKU like nintendo.

Well...technically Nintendo started this stupid trend by offering colour choices for consoles. It's a good idea as a promotion, but launching the GC with multiple colours was really dumb. Especially considering the public wanted a black or platinum GC but Nintendo insisted on pushing the purple GC as the "real" model. Instead people got turned off, retailers had stocking issues and Nintendo would offer special, purple-only deals in hopes of getting people to buy the "real" GC which nobody wanted.

the whole point of console gaming is you know it will be supported for a few years and any game will work. Offering different sku's is just stupid and a guarantee you will anger a group of consumers no matter what you do.

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.gamenux

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

ps2 had hard drive to play FFXI

n64 had exp pac to play donkey kong and perfect dark

its not something new

[QUOTE="gamenux"]

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.meetroid8

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

Customer choices dissapeared when customers like you showed up.It just wasn't a wise decision anymore.

Not sure what you meant by that comment but "Customer Choices" is a good idea like extra controllers, hdvd add-on, bigger hdd,or faceplate.

But when a company goes and change the "minimum requirements" of their games and gimp the CORE customers, that is just wrong on the company's part.

Not making a hard drive mandatory was stupid.

But only the most casual noobs buy a system without a headset, wireless controller and relatively much more massive storage for 60 dollars cheaper...

Then again, they didn't shove an unnecessary disc format down the consumer's throats yet either.

[QUOTE="gamenux"]

[QUOTE="jonnelson1980"]I hate that us people with a hard drive in our xboxs have to be held back because of the core users. Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play. At this point in time, everything we do like downloading stuff off live needs some space. Buy it and dont complain.darkzealot1

Actually it is MS' faultto offer the core in the first place. Now they want some game to require hard drive, thus alienating their customer base.

And before you say "Just make them buy the hard drive if they want to play."
What happen to giving the customer"Choices". Are you saying they MUST BUY IT NOW and shove it down their throat. You lemmings are all the same. You say one thing when it suits you and another when it doesn't.

Discuss.

ps2 had hard drive to play FFXI

n64 had exp pac to play donkey kong and perfect dark

its not something new

I never owned a ps2 but my bro did and I believe the hard drive idea for 1 gamefloped on the ps2.

Google capitalism, then tell me MS and Sony shouldn't be selling multiple SKU's.PBSnipes

Stay in the kiddie pool...you're getting in over your head. While your at it, drop out of that Econ 101 course your wasting your money on, punch the prof for lying to you, and sign up for acourse in PR or advertising. Then you will see how business really works. Believing in economics is like beliving in Santa Clause...and how the rich kids are really "more good" because they get more presents. But that is another arguement for another forum.

I'm on the side of the industry growing and being sustainable and not crashing. Angering consumers by constantly outdating their product and risking games not working without upgrades or new hardwareis a surefire way for console makers to shoot themselves in the foot. Consumers want to know their product will be supported and work. They wouldn't buy the cheap 360 if they know developers were going to give up on it or someone would drop it. They wouldn't buy the cheap PS3 if they knew it couldn't do true HD output.

The whole thing about choice is you have to assume that people make the right one. History and reality has shown us that more often than not, that isn't the case.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]Google capitalism, then tell me MS and Sony shouldn't be selling multiple SKU's.ZIMdoom

Stay in the kiddie pool...you're getting in over your head. While your at it, drop out of that Econ 101 course your wasting your money on, punch the prof for lying to you, and sign up for acourse in PR or advertising. Then you will see how business really works. Believing in economics is like beliving in Santa Clause...and how the rich kids are really "more good" because they get more presents. But that is another arguement for another forum.

I'm on the side of the industry growing and being sustainable and not crashing. Angering consumers by constantly outdating their product and risking games not working without upgrades or new hardwareis a surefire way for console makers to shoot themselves in the foot. Consumers want to know their product will be supported and work. They wouldn't buy the cheap 360 if they know developers were going to give up on it or someone would drop it. They wouldn't buy the cheap PS3 if they knew it couldn't do true HD output.

The whole thing about choice is you have to assume that people make the right one. History and reality has shown us that more often than not, that isn't the case.

You see, I know this might be a crazy idea, but developers, publishers and manufacturers are in the business of making money. Despite what you apparently think, Nintendo, Sony and MS aren't selling consoles out of the goodness in their hearts. And if they aren't profitable, they stop making consoles. So at the root of thisthere are2 options for MS to take here, sell multiple SKU's to increase profits or create 1 SKU and eliminate 2 market segments that the core and elite reached.Multiple SKU'sguarentees higher profits now by putting the future at risk while the single SKU puts current profits at risk for higher potential profits in the future. Now first of all you have to look at the fact MS has blown about 6 billion dollars on the Xbox franchise and has yet to see any return, so already the division is in jeopardy. Second when you compare the risks/rewards of the 3 SKU vs 1 SKU senarios you see that only one option guarentees higher profits, mutliple SKUs. The second option only provides the potential for higher profits later, based on a future senario that may never happen. Like the old saying goes, 1 in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Finally, the whole idea that the grand total of 3 SKUs is confusing consumers is rediculous. GM and Toyotaliterally offerdozens of different model and trim combinations, but they've succeeded with a far more complex and expensive product than a game console, yet the same people shopping for cars are going to be confused by the differences between 3 SKUs? And even if consumers are confused, they just have to ask for some help from a salesperson. So unless the majority of the so called casual market are a) mutes and/or b) scared to talk to strangers, 3 SKUs is not confusing.

Microsoft did it because they hoped releasing a core which is $100 less would give them a wider market. THey never told the customers to buy the Core system. The people that bought the core knew what they were getting themselves into. People could have done what they did with the 20GB PS3. Not much people bought the 20GB PS3 so Sony took it out, that's what could have happened with the core but people actually bought the core more than they did with the 20GB PS3.thegame458

So you are saying if a ps3 game was released with a label "Wireless required." It is the fault of the 20GB buyers that they should have known and bought the 60GB in the first time. Your logic baffles me.

So now the Core owners should have known that MS would screw them eventually and should have bought the premium if they are smart. How about a 360game that is labelled "HDMI required", screw the Premium owners who should have known better and should have waited for the Elite.

If that is the case, sony should release another SKU without br, without cell, without rsx, and just put the EE chip inside and sell it for $200. Casuals will buy it up thinking it is a ps3 and the cheaper of the 3 consoles. Then a game gets released and says "BR required," or "CELL required", or "RSX required" and you say it is OK cause sony never told you to buy it, It is your fault for buying it in the 1st place.