What if IW's new Server Technology works fine?

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Zero_epyon

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#1 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20498 Posts

Wil boycotters continue on their crusade for dedicated servers?

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aaronmullan

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#2 aaronmullan
Member since 2004 • 33426 Posts
Please explain what this server technology is?
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deactivated-58b6232955e4a

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#3 deactivated-58b6232955e4a
Member since 2006 • 15594 Posts
...... no mods..... they are gonna charge for dlc.
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Zero_epyon

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#4 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 20498 Posts
Please explain what this server technology is?aaronmullan
IWNET http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/10/modern-warfare-2-the-case-for-the-dedicated-server.ars
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#5 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Why would they stop? They want to be able to run their own custom servers with mods. They can't do that now.

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Doodlebox

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#6 Doodlebox
Member since 2009 • 94 Posts

Then the apocalypse begins.

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psn8214

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#7 psn8214
Member since 2009 • 14930 Posts

Rage?

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rzepak

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#8 rzepak
Member since 2005 • 5758 Posts

Still destroys the social aspect of the game. Its hard for console gamers to understand but its an amazing feeling having that one server you log onto everyday.

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SquatsAreAwesom

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#9 SquatsAreAwesom
Member since 2009 • 1678 Posts

Wil boycotters continue on their crusade for dedicated servers?

Zero_epyon
I have a feeling your are ignorant as to what this boycott is about. Please explain, even in theory, how IWNet could support what dedicated servers could do.
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PBSnipes

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#10 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

The issue isn't whether or not IW's server tech itself will work, it's that the tech doesn't allow for mods/UGC or dedicated servers.

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Eddie-Vedder

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#11 Eddie-Vedder
Member since 2003 • 7810 Posts

Still destroys the social aspect of the game. Its hard for console gamers to understand but its an amazing feeling having that one server you log onto everyday.

rzepak
True dat. I played all of COD 4 on the same server, I mean I played on more, but 9 times out of 10 I'd log into the same server, see the same nicks. Loved it that way, hate matchmaking. Matchmaking should only ne used in certain play modes, like "Ranked MLG" or whatever, everything else should be server lobby style.
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Zero5000X

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#12 Zero5000X
Member since 2004 • 8314 Posts
So am I the only PC gamer that prefers this new system? I hated looking for matches in COD4. I didn't like each server having it's own rules and mods.
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PBSnipes

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#13 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

So am I the only PC gamer that prefers this new system? I hated looking for matches in COD4. I didn't like each server having it's own rules and mods. Zero5000X

I don't have a problem with IWNet itself (it can definitely be a pain in the ass to find a game you like on a server list), but there's no reason they couldn't offer dedicated servers with mods/UGC alongside the service.

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Eddie-Vedder

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#14 Eddie-Vedder
Member since 2003 • 7810 Posts
So am I the only PC gamer that prefers this new system? I hated looking for matches in COD4. I didn't like each server having it's own rules and mods. Zero5000X
Are you a PC only gamer? Matchmaking has a ton of probs, like if someone drops out no one will come into his place, meaning tons of games are screwed right form the start, you get lag a lot of times cause of someone's crappy connection. The matchmaking screen also annoys me, I so rather just jump into a server.
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Brownesque

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#15 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts
It's not a server, it's P2P matchmaking. It's the same thing as you see in Uncharted 2 and Call of Duty 4 on PS3. Aren't you a PS3 owner? Do you own Resistance 2, Warhawk, SOCOM, Killzone 2? Those games have dedicated servers....that's what gamers want. I've played Uncharted 2 and COD4 and by far the worst part about playing them was P2P matchmaking. PS3 owners should know this....I've spent ages posting about it on these forums, I've spent ridiculous lengths extolling the virtues of PSN on the basis of dedicated servers, and here comes this ignorant post fluffing itself up in my face.
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Brownesque

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#16 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts

[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]So am I the only PC gamer that prefers this new system? I hated looking for matches in COD4. I didn't like each server having it's own rules and mods. PBSnipes

I don't have a problem with IWNet itself (it can definitely be a pain in the ass to find a game you like on a server list), but there's no reason they couldn't offer dedicated servers with mods/UGC alongside the service.

No, it's easy to find a game you like in a server list. You find the criteria you want to seek most (after applying filters), sort by that criteria, and the game you want is at the top of the list. Beyond that you just have to know how many players you want and what map you want. It's possible, and it's quick. Once you set all that crap up, you just click refresh and click the server at the top of the list. Meanwhile on console matchmaking you choose "deathmatch" and everything else is randomized or part of a preset algorithm that determines what they want YOU to play. You can't choose anything you like on console matchmaking, the only thing you get to choose is a playlist. You don't even get to choose your frickin' map. In Uncharted 2 you only get two maps with associated game types, even the game types are completely randomized within the playlist. It's absolute insanity.
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Brownesque

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#17 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts
[QUOTE="aaronmullan"]Please explain what this server technology is?Zero_epyon
IWNET http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/10/modern-warfare-2-the-case-for-the-dedicated-server.ars

All IWnet is is a bunch of algorithms that link you to players. After that it's all P2P. There aren't any servers involved short of the matchmaking servers, which could be replaced by a server list and a user with half a brain. By the way Infinity Ward has already made it clear that there will be no server lists and that IWnet will function exactly the same way as the existing console versions of COD4. You choose "deathmatch" and the algorithm finds everything for you. It's a preset playlist. You don't get to customize anything short of private matches, in which you still can't have mods and in which no one can join or find your match short of being sent an invite. All of the concerns are warranted because they're based in revealed fact. That all adds to the fact that there is no public beta test, i.e. you have to spend $60 to beta test their new proprietary matchmaking service to find out something anyone with common sense can figure out already. BTW that article is opposed to the change and explains why dedicated servers (what we have now) is superior to IWnet. I hope you understood that.
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Tiefster

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#18 Tiefster
Member since 2005 • 14639 Posts

Why should the boycott stop? Dedicated servers aren't the only thing being fought for.

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PBSnipes

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#19 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

No, it's easy to find a game you like in a server list. You find the criteria you want to seek most (after applying filters), sort by that criteria, and the game you want is at the top of the list. Beyond that you just have to know how many players you want and what map you want. It's possible, and it's quick. Once you set all that crap up, you just click refresh and click the server at the top of the list. Meanwhile on console matchmaking you choose "deathmatch" and everything else is randomized or part of a preset algorithm that determines what they want YOU to play. You can't choose anything you like on console matchmaking, the only thing you get to choose is a playlist. You don't even get to choose your frickin' map. In Uncharted 2 you only get two maps with associated game types, even the game types are completely randomized within the playlist. It's absolute insanity.

Brownesque

I've been playing multiplayer games on the PC for over 10 years and on consoles since XBL launched, don't lecture me on how server lists and matchmaking work.

Besides, you seem to have missed the part where I said "can", not "is". Generally, yes, server lists work quite well. But that doesn't negate the fact that even in great games with great communities you can go through (relatively) long stretches of not being able to find a server you like due to player numbers, connection issues, mods/rules on the server, etc. There are times when you simply want to play a quick game or two, and matchmaking can be a better option in those cases.

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II-FBIsniper-II

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#20 II-FBIsniper-II
Member since 2005 • 18067 Posts
Based on COD4, IW's matchmaking is inferior to Halo 2's.
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#21 Next-Gen-Tec
Member since 2009 • 4623 Posts
Based on COD4, IW's matchmaking is inferior to Halo 3's.II-FBIsniper-II
I think it's better, for this reason: MUCH Faster COD4, go to multiplayer, search for game mode. Blam, you're in. Halo 3, multiple game modes, Veto changes mode and map, loads map even before Veto, takes forever to load.
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#22 II-FBIsniper-II
Member since 2005 • 18067 Posts
[QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]Based on COD4, IW's matchmaking is inferior to Halo 3's.Next-Gen-Tec
I think it's better, for this reason: MUCH Faster COD4, go to multiplayer, search for game mode. Blam, you're in. Halo 3, multiple game modes, Veto changes mode and map, loads map even before Veto, takes forever to load.

I actually meant Halo 2. :x It actually finds people that are similarly skilled, not just a random game.
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#23 Next-Gen-Tec
Member since 2009 • 4623 Posts
[QUOTE="Next-Gen-Tec"][QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]Based on COD4, IW's matchmaking is inferior to Halo 3's.II-FBIsniper-II
I think it's better, for this reason: MUCH Faster COD4, go to multiplayer, search for game mode. Blam, you're in. Halo 3, multiple game modes, Veto changes mode and map, loads map even before Veto, takes forever to load.

I actually meant Halo 2. :x It actually finds people that are similarly skilled, not just a random game.

Oh, lol. Never mind then.
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lowe0

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#24 lowe0
Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts
Those games have dedicated servers....that's what gamers want.Brownesque
And you speak for all gamers, now? When did that happen?
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Brownesque

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#25 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

No, it's easy to find a game you like in a server list. You find the criteria you want to seek most (after applying filters), sort by that criteria, and the game you want is at the top of the list. Beyond that you just have to know how many players you want and what map you want. It's possible, and it's quick. Once you set all that crap up, you just click refresh and click the server at the top of the list. Meanwhile on console matchmaking you choose "deathmatch" and everything else is randomized or part of a preset algorithm that determines what they want YOU to play. You can't choose anything you like on console matchmaking, the only thing you get to choose is a playlist. You don't even get to choose your frickin' map. In Uncharted 2 you only get two maps with associated game types, even the game types are completely randomized within the playlist. It's absolute insanity.

PBSnipes

I've been playing multiplayer games on the PC for over 10 years and on consoles since XBL launched, don't lecture me on how server lists and matchmaking work.

Besides, you seem to have missed the part where I said "can", not "is". Generally, yes, server lists work quite well. But that doesn't negate the fact that even in great games with great communities you can go through (relatively) long stretches of not being able to find a server you like due to player numbers, connection issues, mods/rules on the server, etc. There are times when you simply want to play a quick game or two, and matchmaking can be a better option in those cases.

In my experience finding a game on matchmaking-based games is dramatically more difficult under stressful situations like low player counts and you generally have far more connection issues, particularly with games with no host swapping. I also have more trash talk and garbage I have to deal with (for the most part I mute everyone in the room on consoles) due to the LACK of mods/rules on the server. Matchmaking has never, ever proven to be an easier option for me because with a server list everything is transparent. I know exactly how many people are playing, whether the pings indicate the servers are in a location with too many hops for smooth gameplay, what kinds of maps/game types are up for grabs, etc. In a matchmaking environment, first of all, all the players are partitioned into different match types and because the search algorithm prioritizes lobby matches (matches in-between games) over in-progress matches, you're basically funneled into a selection of players in your particular playlist that are currently out of a match, those are the things you can't see out of, a kind of tunnel vision. Then you get issues where the algorithm prioritizes ping and rank/skill (which IW said MW2 will do on IWnet)... This basically means in a game drought you're spending in excess of five minutes (which I regularly got on the Uncharted 2 beta) to ten minutes (which I regularly get on MGO) as the algorithm gradually increases its range for sought players. Compare this to me on a server list. Either: "Okay this looks good" *Click* or: "Okay nobody's playing" *close*
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Brownesque

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#26 Brownesque
Member since 2005 • 5660 Posts
[QUOTE="Brownesque"]Those games have dedicated servers....that's what gamers want.lowe0
And you speak for all gamers, now? When did that happen?

This is easy. Gamers=people who want dedicated servers. :D
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#27 InsaneBasura
Member since 2005 • 12591 Posts

Wil boycotters continue on their crusade for dedicated servers? Zero_epyon
The reason people are boycotting the thing is because IWNET working "fine", as in as a substitute for the functionality offered by dedicated servers, is an impossibility. So that hypothetical question holds no merit.
No, it's easy to find a game you like in a server list. You find the criteria you want to seek most (after applying filters), sort by that criteria, and the game you want is at the top of the list. Beyond that you just have to know how many players you want and what map you want. It's possible, and it's quick. Once you set all that crap up, you just click refresh and click the server at the top of the list. Brownesque
The whole process could definitely be streamlined for those just seeking to jump into a game and start playing though. I'd imagine it's not that hard to code a "Quick Play" function where you click a button and the game automatically connects to a low ping server. Or an appending, more intuitive menu where you select the mode, map, number of players, and then click a button.

And for all the pros, there are some things that can bother me with a server browser and dedicated servers.

1. Thirty seconds after you've refreshed the list, that 58/64 server may be full.
2. For better and worse, servers tend to gravitate heavily towards the most popular maps. Those 5-6 maps may be really good, but sometimes I'd like to play something else for a change.

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#28 washd123
Member since 2003 • 3418 Posts

[QUOTE="Next-Gen-Tec"][QUOTE="II-FBIsniper-II"]Based on COD4, IW's matchmaking is inferior to Halo 3's.II-FBIsniper-II
I think it's better, for this reason: MUCH Faster COD4, go to multiplayer, search for game mode. Blam, you're in. Halo 3, multiple game modes, Veto changes mode and map, loads map even before Veto, takes forever to load.

I actually meant Halo 2. :x It actually finds people that are similarly skilled, not just a random game.

thats the whole issue. we dont want the game to decide for us who we should play with.