What next gen systems should offer - beyond graphics.

your's good enoughngoniko

=/ Bah, I guess maybe this thread has been overdone or something... or maybe I should have spiced it up.... uhmmm

Wii sucks, no way it could manage to do these things I have just mentioned.

While I will be the first to agree with anyone who says that graphics can be a really wonderful part of a game, there is also so much more that next gen consoles - and newer PC's should be able to accomplish with the hardware that is available to developers now. So I want to ask people, what do you want to see in games with this new generation? I'll start it off with some quick examples:


1. AI - I would -love- to see a large group of NPC's that had 'personalities' associated to them randomly at the beginning of a level. Example, you have 20 NPC's that are going to prevent you from getting to your goal - currently, these npc's will behave the same way every single time you play through a level. What if for example, at the beginning of the level NPC's were randomly assigned personalities that would effect the way they would interact with you? Eg. A Coward who would run and hide without backup, a berserker who would charge you first chance he got, a melee focus, a ranged focus, a trapper, maybe a sniper. This would probably be hard to implement successfully... but if it was!!!!!


2. Physics - Completely desctructable enviornments (well maybe not completely, but a very large portion of it). Need to get to the next room over, but going out into the hallway a bad idea for some reason? Maybe you have some pack explosives! BAM, you make a door. Again, this would probably be DRAMATICALLY harder to implement than the AI thing - but if it could be....


Your turns!
Kinitari

i agree with the physics but the AI on the 360 feels the same on the wii as the 360 because i've played call of duty on the 360 and the enimies are quite stupid just like the wii

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]

While I will be the first to agree with anyone who says that graphics can be a really wonderful part of a game, there is also so much more that next gen consoles - and newer PC's should be able to accomplish with the hardware that is available to developers now. So I want to ask people, what do you want to see in games with this new generation? I'll start it off with some quick examples:


1. AI - I would -love- to see a large group of NPC's that had 'personalities' associated to them randomly at the beginning of a level. Example, you have 20 NPC's that are going to prevent you from getting to your goal - currently, these npc's will behave the same way every single time you play through a level. What if for example, at the beginning of the level NPC's were randomly assigned personalities that would effect the way they would interact with you? Eg. A Coward who would run and hide without backup, a berserker who would charge you first chance he got, a melee focus, a ranged focus, a trapper, maybe a sniper. This would probably be hard to implement successfully... but if it was!!!!!


2. Physics - Completely desctructable enviornments (well maybe not completely, but a very large portion of it). Need to get to the next room over, but going out into the hallway a bad idea for some reason? Maybe you have some pack explosives! BAM, you make a door. Again, this would probably be DRAMATICALLY harder to implement than the AI thing - but if it could be....


Your turns!
wannweed

i agree with the physics but the AI on the 360 feels the same on the wii as the 360 because i've played call of duty on the 360 and the enimies are quite stupid just like the wii

Maybe they just didn't want to do the AI that way? Or maybe they had too many enemies and didn't feel like they could give them all 'personalities' (to which I reccomend giving each level 'minibosses' where you have 6 or 7 commander-types that lead the rest of the drones).

Communication to NPC's through the use of a headset.evilviolenceman

There are games that already do that.

While I will be the first to agree with anyone who says that graphics can be a really wonderful part of a game, there is also so much more that next gen consoles - and newer PC's should be able to accomplish with the hardware that is available to developers now. So I want to ask people, what do you want to see in games with this new generation? I'll start it off with some quick examples:


1. AI - I would -love- to see a large group of NPC's that had 'personalities' associated to them randomly at the beginning of a level. Example, you have 20 NPC's that are going to prevent you from getting to your goal - currently, these npc's will behave the same way every single time you play through a level. What if for example, at the beginning of the level NPC's were randomly assigned personalities that would effect the way they would interact with you? Eg. A Coward who would run and hide without backup, a berserker who would charge you first chance he got, a melee focus, a ranged focus, a trapper, maybe a sniper. This would probably be hard to implement successfully... but if it was!!!!!


2. Physics - Completely desctructable enviornments (well maybe not completely, but a very large portion of it). Need to get to the next room over, but going out into the hallway a bad idea for some reason? Maybe you have some pack explosives! BAM, you make a door. Again, this would probably be DRAMATICALLY harder to implement than the AI thing - but if it could be....


Your turns!
Kinitari

already done in a few different games

for your physics look at red faction

AI look at far cry, stalker, and a few others

[QUOTE="evilviolenceman"]Communication to NPC's through the use of a headset.Einhanderkiller

There are games that already do that.

SOCOM is one

Hey You Pikachu is another

the question is, what do they offer that isn't going to pale in comparison to what the pc is offering

solid offline multi/co-op... convenience ... media convergence

thats about it

What they offer now

omg where do I start..

Realistc explosions, more events happening on screen, larger scales, bigger enviroment, more enviroment varieties, even more interactive enviroment, less and short load times and some levels don't have any load times at all, better lightning, realistic lighting, more A.I. more sophisticated and better peronality A.I, less predictability, Sharper character models, tons more content, rag doll physics, high definition shaprer and clearer details, more gameplay modes, online, better audio, smoother framerates, more color variety there's too many to name.

[QUOTE="wannweed"]

[QUOTE="Kinitari"]

While I will be the first to agree with anyone who says that graphics can be a really wonderful part of a game, there is also so much more that next gen consoles - and newer PC's should be able to accomplish with the hardware that is available to developers now. So I want to ask people, what do you want to see in games with this new generation? I'll start it off with some quick examples:


1. AI - I would -love- to see a large group of NPC's that had 'personalities' associated to them randomly at the beginning of a level. Example, you have 20 NPC's that are going to prevent you from getting to your goal - currently, these npc's will behave the same way every single time you play through a level. What if for example, at the beginning of the level NPC's were randomly assigned personalities that would effect the way they would interact with you? Eg. A Coward who would run and hide without backup, a berserker who would charge you first chance he got, a melee focus, a ranged focus, a trapper, maybe a sniper. This would probably be hard to implement successfully... but if it was!!!!!


2. Physics - Completely desctructable enviornments (well maybe not completely, but a very large portion of it). Need to get to the next room over, but going out into the hallway a bad idea for some reason? Maybe you have some pack explosives! BAM, you make a door. Again, this would probably be DRAMATICALLY harder to implement than the AI thing - but if it could be....


Your turns!
Kinitari

i agree with the physics but the AI on the 360 feels the same on the wii as the 360 because i've played call of duty on the 360 and the enimies are quite stupid just like the wii

Maybe they just didn't want to do the AI that way? Or maybe they had too many enemies and didn't feel like they could give them all 'personalities' (to which I reccomend giving each level 'minibosses' where you have 6 or 7 commander-types that lead the rest of the drones).

Trust me, adding "personalities" to mass numbers of enemies doesn't change games much. It's more important to add dynamic anticipation and planning to artificial intelligence, but that's something for software geeks to worry about, not hardware designers. AI and physics software right now don't really push even last gen hardware to its limits.

The thing with AI and physics is that it doesn't have that much to do with the system's capabitlies so much as it depends on a developer going through the effort to program to the level you're describing. However, the AI is less dependant on hardware specs than the physics of having a compleately destroyable environment.

It took years for a *CHESS* AI to beat out world champion players. That's just chess, creating AI for games will always be limited unless there's enough time and resource dedicated to it.

What they offer now

omg where do I start..

Realistc explosions, more events happening on screen, larger scales, bigger enviroment, more enviroment varieties, even more interactive enviroment, less and short load times and some levels don't have any load times at all, better lightning, realistic lighting, more A.I. more sophisticated and better peronality A.I, less predictability, Sharper character models, tons more content, rag doll physics, high definition shaprer and clearer details, more gameplay modes, online, better audio, smoother framerates, more color variety there's too many to name.

Silvereign

your sig needs to leave, and dont cry about sytems you dont own

Trust me, adding "personalities" to mass numbers of enemies doesn't change games much. It's more important to add dynamic anticipation and planning to artificial intelligence, but that's something for software geeks to worry about, not hardware designers. AI and physics software right now don't really push even last gen hardware to its limits.

mjarantilla

Ugh at me always leaving before I get your (or anyone elses) responses for that matter =/.


Unfortunately, we couldn't finish this convo LAST time, so instead of starting a new thread I'll just rekindle this one a bit.

So a lot of people have made comments on AI in current games being really underdeveloped - mjarantilla, you seem to think that the focus does not need to be on 'personalizing' individual NPC's - I guess I'll take your word for it, but it's still something I would at least like to see attempted =/. Regardless, why do you think the AI hasn't really changed from the gen before? Shouldn't there be -some- sort of improvement, hardware aside, just to help increase the 'next-gen' feel of the games coming out?

And other people - so my points aside, what would YOU people like to see out of the next gen consoles? Something that could have not been done because of hardware constraints or whatever - you know, something that really makes you feel like the consoles are 'evolving or whatever'. It's not to say that I am not enjoying next-gen games, Motorstorm for example, I really enjoy the AI and just -crashing- in general.... but I mean, I want more (as in volume in individual games and quantity, in multiple games). Maybe I am asking too much, or maybe I have some imaginary ideal that cannot, in actuality, be met?

maybe in the future we will see some games that are true upgrades of last gen in terms of gameplay. As of now, the environments are no bigger, the enemies are no smarter, the physics is only aesthetically superior.GunSmith1_basic

Assassins creed seems like a step in the right direction.

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]maybe in the future we will see some games that are true upgrades of last gen in terms of gameplay. As of now, the environments are no bigger, the enemies are no smarter, the physics is only aesthetically superior.AsadMahdi59

Assassins creed seems like a step in the right direction.

That's a good point - although the game isn't -out- yet, I really do like the whole idea of climbing pretty much anything, and the enviornments aren't completely destructable but they are a little~ gogo climbing.

Dolby Digital 7.1 sound

Playable and Downloadable Demos

Integrated Online Service(s)

I want dynamic environments: walls and and objects that aren't made of hard-as-titanium polygons. Doesn't have to be on the Crysis-scale, but I'd like to see a change in the way we think of game environments.Teufelhuhn

I would -really- enjoy that as well - but I think the way games are developers is sort of like... the enviornment is considered part of the background art, and should not be changed - but to give the illusion of interactivity, there are preset locations and situations that you CAN interact with.


Maybe if, with the appropriate tools, at the -core- of the enviornment the structures are destructable, and then later could be customized to fit the artists perspectives... but no, I could see how that would be hard to work with... *sigh*. I can sympathize with dev's, but I would really like a fully destructable enviornments one of these days!

[QUOTE="Silvereign"]

What they offer now

omg where do I start..

Realistc explosions, more events happening on screen, larger scales, bigger enviroment, more enviroment varieties, even more interactive enviroment, less and short load times and some levels don't have any load times at all, better lightning, realistic lighting, more A.I. more sophisticated and better peronality A.I, less predictability, Sharper character models, tons more content, rag doll physics, high definition shaprer and clearer details, more gameplay modes, online, better audio, smoother framerates, more color variety there's too many to name.

frodnekcod

your sig needs to leave, and dont cry about sytems you dont own

My sig is going nowhere. And what am I crying about?

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/fracture/news.html?sid=6173568&tag=topslot;title;1&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

Rather than make a new topic, I'll just bring back this one - this game is supposed to have nearly entirely 'modifiable' enviornments. This is almost -exactly- what I was talking about - I want to see more games that incorporate this ideal into the actual gameplay (Crysis kind of does as well).