What series have already peaked?

Final Fantasy VII. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Super Smash Bros Melee. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves. These are just a few games that are heralded as defining titles in their given franchises. While you may not agree, many believe that these are the series at their height, and I'm guessing many would argue that no matter what the developers do, they won't surpass one of the masterpieces.

Guess what? This is a thread on opinions, and what I consider the height of a franchise may be different than what you consider. But I think it could lead to some interesting discussion. Why should you consider Mario Kart 64 to be the best of the franchise that Nintendo probably won't ever? Or why can't Shadow of the Colossus be dethroned by The Last Guardian? I want to hear it, and I want to see others agree or disagree.

Disclaimer:I would also appreciate not trying to be a smart ass. "Oh, stupid Zassi, there aren't any games." Yeah, you're a real special flower for realizing that. Just have some fun and answer the damn question instead of trying to be a prick. And please note that this isn't necessarily what is the best game in a series; God of War 2 may be the better game but some may argue the series peaked at God of War 3 with its sense of scale and closure.

And System Wars shenanigans:Halo 5's multiplayer brought Halo back to the forefront, showing that its multiplayer hadn't peaked with Halo 2 or Halo 3. Therefore, Halo 5 has a lot better competitive multiplayer than what Sony has to offer, and it's more accessible and enjoyable than what PC has to offer. And lol Splatoon.

So...

TL; DR: In your opinion, what series has already peaked with its best entry? What game is it and why is it the best the series can ever offer?

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My opinion: Persona 4 Golden

Look, I don't want to make this another damn Persona 4 thread, but it's the game that came to mind for me to create the topic. I'm not the biggest fanboy of Persona 4 (duh) and I'm greatly anticipating Persona 5, but I think Persona 4 Golden is the height of the series.

Combat could be better. Dungeons could actually be fun to go through. Those are things that could certainly be improved on for future sequels. But the visual design or P4 is on fleek, the music is catchy and top-notch, and what really brings it all home is the cast of characters and how they are together. They enjoy each other, they work together, they actually care about each other. And in those final moments of the game, I truly felt sad to leave it all. My connection with the characters through the relationships, the journey, and the music staying in my mind as a constant reminder of my wonderful year in Inaba.

Those reasons are why I don't think another Persona title could ever be higher for me. Persona 5 may very well be the better game, but Persona 4 Golden is where the memories will be.

The Souls games peaked at Dark Souls 1.

My opinion, you vultures.

Uncharted (2).

Arkham games

Rocksteady blew their load too soon. Arkham City perfected the combat and introduced an incredible open world to explore. Arkham Knight is still great, but they're simply hammering on extra additions instead of evolving the core game.

I like your answer, and that is indeed one of the fears I have with Persona 5- as great as it looks (and it looks great), I think Persona 4 Golden was just something special. It came at an important time in my life (the ending of Persona 4 coincided with my graduating from college, leading to an incredible interplay of real life and game events), and I think that enhances its value for me. It sticks out in my memory not just an incredible game, which it was, but also the context surrounding it- as you said, you really become friends with, and attached to, the game's world and characters, and saying farewell to that was legitimately heart rending. The long and short of it being that Persona 4 transcends being a game, and even if Persona 5 is better, I don't know if it can replicate that.

The only hope I have in that regard is the fact that I was once similarly attached to Persona 3 and its cast (not as much, but still quite a bit), and yet Persona 4 did ultimately manage to not only manage to live up to it, but also surpass it.

As for my answers- I think the answer is Pokemon.

Look, I'm not going to take anything away from the newer games (just last year saw the release of OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire, which are my second favorite games in the series, and 2011 saw the release of Black and White, which I adored). But Pokemon has the same kind of thing that Persona 4 Golden does- I started playing these games when I was a kid, and back then, they weren't games, they were legitimately full fledged adventures I would set out on. That sort of thing fades away as you grow up- I briefly had it flare up again with the release of HeartGold and SoulSilver (incidentally my favorite games in the franchise), but since then, it has not mattered how much better mechanically or otherwise Pokemon games have gotten, they're just... games now. That makes them less special than they used to be (the frequent releases have also not helped). So I suppose that franchise has peaked as well.

Man, I could list off a ton. It seems most of my favorite franchises hit their peak a while ago. You never know though, sometimes these things turn around unexpectedly.

I do wonder if Nintendo will ever be able to top SMG2 though. I know some people would argue that 3D World is already better, but those people don't deserve to have opinions.

Do you consider Bloodborne a part of the Souls series? If not, would you still hold Dark Souls as the peak?

I would most certainly agree with that sentiment, as I'm sure most would. That game is just a blast with every playthrough.

+1 for this as well. I didn't mind Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight was when I really started to grow tired of the formula, but it was Arkham City that made the franchise phenomenal. I'm a fan of Batman (seems like everyone is these days) and between the roster of villains and the story that was told, it was the top of the game and I don't know if a Batman game will ever surpass that. Arkham Asylum is the only one I'd put close to it.

Probably a shit ton, their sequels can still be great, but match the best game? doubt it.

Final Fantasy: they've had plenty of chances to come up with games better than 5 or 6, frankly they haven't come close.

Souls games: Take your pick between Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, realize neither Bloodborne nor Dark Souls 2 matched up favorably, and without some novelty Dark Souls 3 will feel like a polished been there, done that. It's the Nintendo problem in a lot of ways.

Arkham games: agreeing with Jango, they probably made the most Batman thing they needed to make with City, and I don't really think they left more of a game to do with those systems. YOu can tell a better Batman story, because good god do they suck at telling Batman stories, but pure game? Nah that series peaked.

Resident Evil: Take your pick between RE4 or Remake. We've had shooters where you can move n shoot, none of them are as varied, well paced, or as expertly designed as RE4. Classic Evil? That game was air tight, and before Resident Evil's campy bullshit could get completely in the way. Capcom should have let the series finish and move on, but you know modern gaming and all.

Halo: Multiplayer wise they can improve on Halo 2 mechanically, but I have a hard time believing they will ever have a map list as strong as the one in Halo 2. That shit was stellar top to bottom. Campaigns lameness is whatever to me at that point.

I'd list more, Nintendo's franchises certainly will have a hard time besting some classic entries, but of the things I doubt, Nintendo isn't one of them. They sort of the rise to the moment when you least expect.

@charizard1605: HeartGold and SoulSilver = <3. I haven't had a connection like that with the franchise since. I've started looking at what makes a good team, trading beforehand and looking a little more into EVs and IVs. Like you said, the games have lost their magic because they're now games. But one of the best things I did was start doing "Mystery Egg Runs." I have a friend breed me a random group of six eggs, no idea what they are, and after each gym leader I hatch them and use only them, exceptions being my starter and shinies. It brought back that connection with my team that I was yearning for.

And you get it about Persona 4. I am with you on Persona 5 possibly recreating that connection, just in different ways, but Persona 4 is gonna keep that place with me.

I LOVE 3D World. It's fantastic whether I'm alone or playing with 1 - 3 other peeps. In no way is it a better game than SMG2 though. I would personally argue that SMG2 is the best in the series but Nintendo hasn't peaked with the franchise yet, though that may just be naive optimism. :P

I'd say most franchises have hit their peak.

That could be true. But if 3 took a speed boost to combat ala Bloodborne it may prove to raise said peak. Only time will tell.

Gears of War peaked at 3 imo. Horde and Beast mode, the campaign, all of it. Unlike others I don't hate judgement, I actually liked the idea of activating special things to change encounters, but the game is as it scored a 7-7.5 at most imo.

@Zassimick: I count Bloodborne, cause outside of it's look - it's still a Souls game.

Halo with Halo 2.

I don't see why ppl think Uncharted 3 is so much worse than 2. It might not be as stellar but so many act like its Godzilla when compared and it's just not.

I found it to be quite fun.

Oh yeah man, I also thought 3D World was great. It seems I enjoyed the game more than a lot of others did, at least around here. I just think SMG2 is in another league.

And nah, it's not naive at all. When I first played SMG1 I was thinking "how the **** will Nintendo ever top this?" and then BOOM, they shut me the **** up with SMG2.

Nintendo just has random streaks of brilliance like that, you can never count them out.

@Zassimick: Yeah, that's exactly it, I learned the hidden mechanics, and now it's a game for me. They aren't gym leaders, they're bosses. My team isn't my team, it's my party. And so on. Once that happens, it's not that grand adventure anymore.

Sort of a shame, really.

I like the Mystery Egg idea, I might look into that for the next time I replay a Pokemon game.

Children these days will play Pokemon X/Y or whatever; that'll be their adventure, and eventually become jaded like everyone else. :)

Kingdom Hearts.

FF10 has reach another high for the franchise, the story and characters are still well know,their skill tree system still inspiring game deployers nowadays.

However,FF serie uses to be games that have the greatest content Square could offer,and build unique mechanics with every entry.Square have lost that touch after they group up with enix,and I don't think the franchise could reach that high anymore.

FF15 looking great for it own standards.

You peeps haven't played The Old Hunters expansion if you think the Souls series peaked long ago. That shit isn't only good but spectacular. Best $20 dlc i've seen.

• Resident Evil 2
• Resident Evil 4 (twice, I know)
• The Last of Us (The only series that peaked within first game, ridiculously good)
• Halo 2
• Uncharted 2
• Ninja Gaiden Black
• Pokémon G/S
• Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep
• Final Fantasy VI
• Persona 4G

As good as Fire Emblem is, the full potential of the series is with consoles. This post could go on forever.

Tekken with Tekken 3.

Resident Evil with 4 or remake.

Metroid with Metroid Prime 2

Battlefield bad company 2

first cod...

• Mario - Super Mario World
• Sonic - Sonic the Hedgehog 2
• Ninja Gaiden - Ninja Gaiden SMS
• Dragon Quest - DQ V
• Final Fantasy - FF VII
• The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time
• Xeno - Xenogears
• Street Fighter - SF III: 3rd Strike
• WWF/WWE - WWF Smackdown 2
• Gran Turismo - GT3: A-Spec
• Silent Hill - SH2
• Metal Gear - MGS2: Substance
• Dead or Alive - DOA Ultimate
• Mario Kart - Double Dash
• Need For Speed - Underground
• Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas
• Unreal - Unreal Tournament 2004
• Resident Evil - RE4: Wii Edition
• Super Smash Bros - Brawl
• Uncharted - Uncharted 2
• Mass Effect - ME2

@Jag85: Man, I disagree with a lot of your list, but it's whatever... but this?

No amount of nostalgia makes that even close to ok bruh.

2D > 3D

I agree with you on this.

But Miyazaki is back and working on DSIII. I hope for the best.

I think we can all agree that COD 4 Modern Warfare was the peak of the Call of Duty franchise.

The Galaxy part of Mario. That peaked at it's first game.

@getyeryayasout: Your sig is mesmerizing

He was an example to us all

He made doing the laundry look cool. What a badass.

I think Assassin's Creed is the obvious answer here. No game in the franchise has even come close to being as good as AC2 or Brotherhood. Black Flag was a step in the right direction, but every instalment since then has just been such a disappointing regression.

I think Pokemon, as much as I liked Black and White, peaked with HG/SS, but Black/White and OR/AS were excellent games, and I'm not gonna say the series is going to go downhill. I'm cautiously optimistic about future instalments.

Halo has definitely peaked. Halo 3/Reach were amazing, the pinnacle of the series, they were what Halo should always have been. 4 and 5 just feel like semi-decent fanfics in the larger universe.

Call of Duty. I've lost all hope and frankly, I've stopped caring.

Final Fantasy, though I think 15 will give the series a new lease of life. If Square play things right, the series might go on a great run again after that. But you never know with FF.

And Metal Gear Solid now that Kojima has left and MGS5 was such a disappointment.

EDIT: And Resident Evil, obviously.

probably true,

I think pretty much every gaming franchise has hit their peak... I can't think of any (off the top of my head) where I feel they're still in that build-up phase. Nigh on every major franchise has done it better at some point... Sad to say.

the usual suspects, COD, Ass creed, etc

actually, pretty much any ubisoft open world game has pretty much peaked as they seem to just keep recycling the same things (even in first time titles like Watch_dogs)

Tales- Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Zestiria is almost as good as ToV if not equal. Although ToV is probably the one (now two) Tales games that didn't suck

Fire Emblem- Fire Emblem Awakening, didn't really find the console version appealing at all and it pretty much sums up, Awakening saved the series from most likely a horrible fate.

AC- AC Black Flag

MGS- MGS5, tell MGS5 I would have easily said MGS3, but MGS5 is seriously a MGS3 version on roids.

RE- RE remake, no I'm not gonna say RE4 cause while RE4 was a great game, IT SUCKED AS A RE game

Far Cry- Far Cry 3, I just don't see any other Far Cry game beating it, Blood Dragon is close and I wished it was a full fledged game.

Hotline Miami- HLM 2 just didn't have that "wow" factor the first one had, I don't see any other HLM game coming close to the first one.

C&C- honestly I have to say it's a toss up between Red Alert 3 and TW, both were insanely good while ther other C&C games have never really 1up those 2 or come close.

As a whole IP, Star Wars- There's been some amazing Star Wars games over the decades ( just to name a few Kotor 2, Republic Commando, Shadows of the Empire, Jedi Academy ), no Star Wars game has been on the lvl that Kotor has, it's literally the Holy Grail of Star Wars games.

Geow- Geow was the TPS king last gen, Geow 2 was pretty meh (sp wise) while the MP was good but it didn't have that wow/cool factor the first one had. Geow 3 is up there easily and is almost on par with Geow 1 (can't say anything about Judgement since I haven't played it)

WoW- WoW Wotlk will forever be the best expansion for this once Titan (giggity) of a MMO, sure vanilla was simply amazing along with BC but in terms of just sure amazingness Wotlk was the real deal. Every expansion since then has been going down in subs, it's almost time to rest in peace alongside Arthas my sweet Knight of a MMO, other MMOs will take up the crown.

Elder Scrolls peaked with Morrowind.

Uncharted peaked with 2.

AC peaked as an idea on a devs designer board and backfired completely when made into an actual game and has the dubious distinction of being the only game franchise in existence to get progressively more boring with each release. AC could possibly be out-bored if we ever see a Watchdogs 2.

RE peaked with 4, amazing game. Anyone who disagrees is lying or just plain stupid.

Witcher peaked with 3. I am in predictive mode as I don't think anyone could stand yet another game with Geralt. He was fucking boring right from the beginning. Enough already.

Halo peaked in SP terms with 4 (controversial I know) but Halo 5 was so incredibly bad outside of MP I don't think we'll ever see another decent Halo game ever again as long as 343 have hold of it. Absymal graphics and massive focus on MP yes I'm still bitter about it lol.

Silent Hill peaked with 2 and was never the same again and now seems to be abandoned by Konami oh well maybe it's time at some point to stop spawning the same fucking games every year anyway.

Thinking about it it's way past time to stop churning out these endless sequels and just try something else. People will buy a good new IP they are fucking desperate for it they will think it's a mirage in an endless fucking desert of 'reimagined' or 'remastered' or 'yet another sequel' the world we currently inhabit as fans of videogames.

Give us something new. And no, indies plagiarising old classics with shit graphics to boot is not 'new'.