Where's the Next Gen AI?

We've seen it all already, tesselation, volumetric lighting, high particle count, impressive AA. Im sure if any studio were to offer an open engine for advanced dynamic AI I'm sure they'd stand out right now. Is it really that hard to code realistic AI or is it just greed, developers should rather push graphics tech to sell?

I would think its just hard to implement such advanced AI into games but at the same time make it fun and worthwhile.

Probably in advanced robotics, not video games.

Yes, coding AI is insanely difficult. You should try it.

Your greed theory doesn't make any sense. If a developer was able to debut a game with truly revolutionary AI, it would impress audiences, and especially critics, far more than shinier graphics. And millions of game consumers base their purchases on critical acclaim.

Its hilarious how few "next gen" games from 2015 (and the 10 years preceding it) actually have AI that could even touch MGS2's AI on the PS2 in 2001.

The sad thing is there is absolutely no hyperbole in that statement.

Yes, coding AI is a son of a bitch I'm sure.

That said, I would rather see things like AI and physics get pushed instead of the eye candy. Thing is, people can instantly see the eye candy in videos and images. It's an instant pay off in hype. Kind of hard for a big budget devs to sell the masses on AI.

The AI in Titanfall is pretty good, especially the spectres. Pretty impressed as to what the spectres can do/pull off in a match. They def keep you on your toes and on the move.

@FoxbatAlpha: That film is very freaking sad :(

I think the AI in MGSV is great. They're not insanely realistic and they certainly aren't infallible but their function in the game is perfect. They provide adequate challenge and make stealth difficult and satisfying. Naturally the better you get at MGSV the stupider you can make them look, but I think good AI needs to strike a balance between realism and being fun to play against

I remember somebody straight from the industry saying that THERE WILL NEVER BE SOPHISTICATED ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN MODERN VIDEO GAMES EVER AGAIN. I think it was in the context of how novel AI was in FEAR and how despite being 10 years old, it still blows out of the water everything that's out now and will continue to do so.

I wish I could dig out that interview / particular quote.

The ending made me cry.

You want advanced AI when main systems have trouble handling 1080p/30fps?

Since i've played Killzone 2 I haven't played a game with AI that good. Seems like AI has only gotten worse if anything.

Yes, the same for me!

Can't do much with tablet CPUs

Whenever you alert a large outpost...you see one guy telling a bunch of troops to regroup on him...and then they all patrol in a group and look for you. I thought that was cool.

1080p isn't a must.

Therefore you could just drop the resolution to 720p/900p and put in some good AI.

Simple.

Oh wait....

You desperately need your stupid pixels.

Last gen wasn't that long ago....and in Crysis 2 I had enemies bunching up in a corner just staring at it.

If that is any indication of how far back we were.....we've got a long way to go.

I'm not a programmer, but from what I hear it's incredibly difficult to code great AI.

it is here.. with forza's drivatars!

this is why if you actually spent time playing forza, you'll see beyond it's graphics.. have you ever seen it's AI?

Ai is the slowest thing on computers to evolve, it requires the most research. So this isn't surprising.

In 2015 you don't "need" 1080p, its the bare minimum. The stupid here is you, the one who's okay with some 720p action, the resolution you had on a console running on a tri core cpu, 512mb and a potato gpu. Now you have a potato gpu 2.0, 8 core cpu, 8gb of RAM, 10 years later and you're still okay with 720p? Great news. Enjoy.

Darn people having fun....

Also why bring up graphics in this thread? Makes no sense.

I said how can we have advanced ai when current gen cant even handle 1080p/30fps, the bare minimum. people quoted me with graphics lol

Exactly, which makes no sense since ai is governed by the CPU not GPU, thus bringing up resolution makes no sense.

@soulitane: but it does make sense, indirectly. Devs are doing whatever they can to stabilize those systems and they simply can't. If all this time is spent to get those games running at 26fps, who has time to build an advanced AI that feels so next gen that it was impossible during previous generations? Nobody gonna do that. Graphics is the most noticeable aspect of a game, that's what most devs are pushing. You can't really market AI nor will it sell your game. 60fps and shiny graphics will sell, though.

...

720p is fine if it allows me to get "next gen" AI.

Since you desperately want your 1080p then I guess it won't work.

Devs know that 1080p is the technical minimum. As you said. And everyone feels better when their games runs at 1080p. So obviously you are going to have to wait longer for this "next gen AI ".

1. Brilliant and realistic AI is not always fun to play against. Especially in RPGs, which depends on the abstract to work.
2. AI is arguably one of the hardest fields to program in gaming. Whereas in the field of 3D graphics, we already have a very extensive framework built by mathematicians and movie studios such as Pixar, we cannot say the same for AI programming. Yes, we have framework there as well, but it is not quite as extensive.
3. A lot of gaming, at its core, is a power fantasy. Mowing down hordes of bad guys only enforces that. Many Intelligent AIs would become increasingly performancei ntesnive.

The people demanding high end visuals are holding it back. They give us games like The Order too, by the way.

better invest those resources into something like physics. static worlds with zero destruction doesn't only feel last gen but like three gens behind.

wonder what the dude who coded FEAR's AI is doing now... maybe someone should give him a call.

Forza and soon.... He's Coming, WarZone, have you seen it? :P

I agree but it depends on what game it is. It depends on genre and gameplay. Some RPG's shouldn't be too destructive otherwise it would create too many exploits.

For example in a game like Dark Souls or Bloodborne, the devs want the player to feel locked in a despairing world with no hope....

If they want to put destruction into those games, they are going to have tread on new ground. I guess taking a risk is worth it....but it's better to let devs under big publishers take those instead of people like FromSoftware.

What I'm trying to say is that linear games aren't bad. They bring their own elements to the table.

for starters, what is "good" AI for you guys? Because good AI is the one that makes mistakes and do things dynamically. I read people saying that MGSV has good AI because of how enemies regroup or form search teams after an alert or something but that's just a common pattern, aka, a canned behavior. But I really don't think video games need more than patterns anyway. Having a good flowchart in a game beats the wasted CPU cycles on more dynamic AI, I much prefer if they use those on physics instead.

resolution is more of a memory thing than anything else. Lowering it will free-up ram but not much else. Frame-rate on the other hand... That takes a lot of resources.

FEAR was good.

The coding is easy, but thinking how incredible AI should work, that's a bit tougher :)

There is one thing you guys are forgetting.... AI needs to always be dumber than the player especially in today's check point fill games. The casual gamer(majority of gamers) don't want to be consistently be beaten by the AI. For example black ops 3 level select

Damn that's a loose argument.

Especially on the hardest difficulty. I was shocked on how good it was.

MGSV probably has the best AI this gen so far and it still has glaring flaws. Most AI is easily exploitable.

AI is hard to program and the sheeple (not used in SW context :P) seem to want a pretty shiny coat of paint instead of proper AI.

Killzone 2 had pretty good AI. Agree. But I think FEAR was still noticeably better IMO. Killzone 2 is my second pick.

AI has gotten way worse. Halo 1 and fear still have better AI then any other game out there today

He also mentioned frame rates (not just resolution) and frame rates are also affected by CPU and not just GPU, so he's kinda right that devs are struggling to bring 30fps in their games. It's unrealistic to expect more from these CPUs.

The final battle on hardest was rage inducing.

Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait until next gen to see a huge jump in AI. Maybe some game can at least outdo killzone 2 and fear though..

I didn't even make it that far. It got too hard for me lol.

Have you seen Titanfall?