Which has hurt gaming the most?

On the one hand, you have Sony's lack of innovation into gaming and their not-quite hidden agenda of using gamers as pawns in a disc media format war which will ultimately prove to be pointless...

On the other hand, you have Nintendo pushing the industry to build everything for the casual audience, to the point where the industry may eventually wind up churning out nothing but minigames to make a fast buck.

Some food for thought: If the industry sees dollar signs in low-budget, high-return games, will this force Sony and Microsoft to release more simplified, lower budget consoles for the next generation in order to regain marketshare? Will we see a game crash like we did in the 80's after developers flooded the market with crappy variations of the same games? Will games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo, & MGS go the way of the dinosaur due to their relatively high development costs?

Undercover Wii bashing?

Oh yes.

Will games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo, & MGS go the way of the dinosaur due to their relatively high development costs?

MrEpyx

Gears, BioShock, and Halo have all sold very well and will continue to do so. Also, it looks like MGS4 will sell well too. I think that big budget hardcore games can still do well in a casual dominated market if they are made accessible and marketed correctly.

For example, just look at MP3. THey took a traditionally hardcore game (I never did beat the GC Prim games) and have made it accessible through control options and difficulty settings.

You missed the buggest one. MS.

MS comes out with XBOX late, no big deal. But then the 360 is early. Therefore, Xbox is cut extremely short. And because 360 comes out early, they are able to build a hype around zero competition. They are also able to build a large library with the lead. Both lead to 360 having a large install base. That install base leads to devs focusing on 360. That focus is then taken away from PS3. Ps3 then has worse multiplats. Worse multiplats then adds to the 360-hype train.

Worst of all, MS doesn't include a standard HDD for all units. Which wouldn;t be so big if they included another large capacity storage medium like blu-ray, but they didn't. And then you have all of the reliability issues.

So, what happens next? A whole new MS console, out early, forcing gamers to completely split themselves. Moreso than we are now. And if this begins, how can it stop?

Undercover Wii bashing?

Oh yes.

TimeToPartyHard

My name is Sam Fisher, and I am a fanboy.

Yeah I'm sure epic is more than willing to start making party games for the 360 to compete with demand. :roll:

Movie based games. Developers say, "Why make a good game /w high developlment costs when people will buy this trash?"majadamus

I wouldn't say either one is hurting gaming. If you never try something different you will never know what works and what does'nt. For example, when Sega released the Sega CD it didn't really do much to save them from being stomped by the SNES, but it did usher in a new era of video game formats. The Xbox introduced an integrated harddrive that, while it didn't help is beat the PS2, showed everyone that devs and gamers alike wanted this in a system. Ironically, Sony introduced a stand alone hard drive for the PS2 that bombed miserably, yet next gen the PS3 had the integrated hard drive, while the 360 pushed the stand alone (I'll never understand what the hell MS was thinking with that one). This gen the PS3 has given us Blu Ray which, while not helping it catch up in sales any time soon (if ever), has shown us that devs like extra space on formats. And while this tech may not help the PS3 do anything more then barely keep up with the tail end of the pack, it has shown us what we can expect to be a universal feature next-gen, much bigger formats. The Wii has likewise shown the world there is an untapped market out there. I'm not sure it can be considered neccassarily a hardcore gaming market, but it is a new market nonetheless. I think as Nintendo pursues that market they will find themselves less and less in direct competition with MS and Sony as they seem to be pursuing a different demographic entirely. In any case, I don't really see the Wii hurting gaming, it's simply giving devs another option to make money to produce those big budget blockbusters we all love.

[QUOTE="MrEpyx"]

Will games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo, & MGS go the way of the dinosaur due to their relatively high development costs?

Kestastrophe

Gears, BioShock, and Halo have all sold very well and will continue to do so. Also, it looks like MGS4 will sell well too. I think that big budget hardcore games can still do well in a casual dominated market if they are made accessible and marketed correctly.

For example, just look at MP3. THey took a traditionally hardcore game (I never did beat the GC Prim games) and have made it accessible through control options and difficulty settings.

You missed the point. At one point in time, Creating a game like Halo or MGS was a huge risk. A lot of money was laid out up front and a lot of time was spent on development. Why would a game publisher take any more risks like that on new franchises if they can spend half the money on a warioware game and make twice the profit?

Undercover Wii bashing?

Oh yes.

TimeToPartyHard

I'm not a wii basher. I own one for crying out loud. I believe it was Peter Moore who was being interviewed on how the Wii was outpacing the 360 and he responded, "But how long is that novelty going to last when people start looking for deeper, more immersive experiences?" Now I thought he was bashing the Wii's graphics hardware but what he was really alluding to was that the Wiis success in sales may shift publisher money to produce casual dogcrap. We all know that its purely money that makes the game industry go round, so for all you idealists who believe all that crap about how developers want to always try new and different things so there will always be new franchises like Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. you keep dreaming that dream, and when the Wii hits 50 million consoles sold and all you see on the shelves is pokemon uranium and mario party 15 clones, you can cry me a river.

Nintendo will kill gaming with their cheap scams and fads.Onoskelis

On the one hand, you have Sony's lack of innovation into gaming and their not-quite hidden agenda of using gamers as pawns in a disc media format war which will ultimately prove to be pointless...

MrEpyx

On the other hand, you have Nintendo pushing the industry to build everything for the casual audience, to the point where the industry may eventually wind up churning out nothing but minigames to make a fast buck.

you

Some food for thought: If the industry sees dollar signs in low-budget, high-return games, will this force Sony and Microsoft to release more simplified, lower budget consoles for the next generation in order to regain marketshare?YOU

Will we see a game crash like we did in the 80's after developers flooded the market with crappy variations of the same games? Sombody

Will games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo, & MGS go the way of the dinosaur due to their relatively high development costs?Mr Wrong

Nintendo will kill gaming with their cheap scams and fads.Onoskelis

Sony's entrance into the VG arena was not by design but by default b/c Nintendo left them at the alter and ran out on them.

Sony has since become a big player and seen the light as VG Ind. started to rival the movie Ind.

MS ventured in as they seen Sony on the road to take the living rooms of N.A. as the entertainment hub and wanted a piece of that healthy pie for themselves.

Nintendo ( just ask any reputable entertainment analyst ) was born as a gimmick company and was best at manufacturing a craze ( I must have that thing ) kind of company.

Just wanted to put some historical insight to the thread.

Nintendo has made a move this gen to quell this competition and again get the VG ind. into something they can manage like it used to be - something like a fancy gum ball machine to attract the public to put in a few bucks in and they make the big profits off of it.

Great move for Nintendo the company - bad move for those of us who loved seeing the VG Ind. mature and become something for the true hobbyist of gaming.

All IMHO so just point out with logic where I've error-ed and keep the flaming on low heat - dam flame shield has taken a beating lately and offers very little protection right now. :)

Nintendo has made a move this gen to quell this competition and again get the VG ind. into something they can manage like it used to be - something like a fancy gum ball machine to attract the public to put in a few bucks in and they make the big profits off of it.

Great move for Nintendo the company - bad move for those of us who loved seeing the VG Ind. mature and become something for the true hobbyist of gaming.

SecretPolice

I think you hit the nail on the head. I love the Nintendo of old, but they have always been a company that wanted to lock the rest of the industry out of making money. With the current lies about chip shortages (there is nothing in the Wii you can't buy off-the-shelf) leading to console shortages, all they are doing it making the Wii seem so elusive that it prolongs people into believing its worth $250 when in fact its a $99 Gamecube with a novel (but cheap to make) remote control.

People will think I'm a Nintendo basher, but I've played Nintendo since the original NES and am one of the few who actually own a Virtual Boy (and I still love that thing).

But if you look at Super Paper Mario... "Its those gamecube games, but now they are on the Wii. They even look the same." And it appears that Metroid Prime 3 is Metroid Prime 2 with Wii controls. and to me, thats not worth $50. I pray that Mario Galaxy makes my purchase worthwhile.MrEpyx

I fear history is doomed to repeat itself. A market crash is bound to happen in the furture. Games will cost so much to make that only a hand full of gamemakers can afford to due, causing yearly rehash of the same game with little tweaks and the title ending with the year of release. (i.e* EA games)player_leo

Someone who is able to see the forrest for the trees.

As it stands now - the Wii is actually good for gaming in the sense that it gives developers a platform to make games for that have small budgets and that they can take some risks on. XBL Arcade does this to an extent as well.

Look at a game like Beyond Good and Evil. Critically acclaimed. Terrible sales. Same with Psychonauts. The industry tries to make a new/innovative game and it gets slammed in sales. Where is the motivation to make games outside the "cookie-cutter" mold of FPSs and games like that?

The Wii may actually end up saving the gaming industry in the sense that development houses can make money off of making a Wii game and then turn that money around and put it into the high development costs of a 360 or PS3 game. This is not saying that 360 games and PS3 games don't make profits, its just that a publisher may be less apt to fund a "risky" game when their financials aren't doing too well.

HOWEVER, if history repeats itself (and it often does) the Wii may kill gaming in the sense that developers are just going to put out sooo much crap for the system, that it is going to be hard to justify $60 for a game when you you've been burned so many times before paying $60 for a game that was junk. This is what caused the death of the Atari and videogames in the mid '80s. There was so much crap out there, that it flooded the market. For every $50 game, you had 20 crappy games each priced at $20 or less. The average consumer would often buy the cheaper game, only to have it be a pile of dog doo and, thus, turning people away from making another purchase.

A certain company that tries to sell us last gen hardware with new controllers and tons of remakes,multiplats and Mini-games compilations , THAT is hurting gaming the most.

Right now Sony is pretty much like Jesus they came to save gaming from damnation

The people are the only ones that can help gaming by buying good games, encouraging more games. At the same time, the people are the only ones that can destroy gaming by not buying games at all.

Piracy hurts gaming the most.

Fast money is good for the short term...Nintendo lost alot of their devoted fan base (in America at least) with their previous consoles...they are attempting to tap into an untouched market...and it's working thus far. What they are not thinking about is that casual gamers do not purchase as many games as "hardcore" gamers...because they are going the road they are Nintendo will make bank initially...but once everybody gets tired of their Wii it's time for another short term gimic...

You missed the buggest one. MS.

MS comes out with XBOX late, no big deal. But then the 360 is early. Therefore, Xbox is cut extremely short. And because 360 comes out early, they are able to build a hype around zero competition. They are also able to build a large library with the lead. Both lead to 360 having a large install base. That install base leads to devs focusing on 360. That focus is then taken away from PS3. Ps3 then has worse multiplats. Worse multiplats then adds to the 360-hype train.

Worst of all, MS doesn't include a standard HDD for all units. Which wouldn;t be so big if they included another large capacity storage medium like blu-ray, but they didn't. And then you have all of the reliability issues.

So, what happens next? A whole new MS console, out early, forcing gamers to completely split themselves. Moreso than we are now. And if this begins, how can it stop?

The_Crucible

The people are the only ones that can help gaming by buying good games, encouraging more games. At the same time, the people are the only ones that can destroy gaming by not buying games at all.

Piracy hurts gaming the most.

Technoweirdo

This answer is the winner. Piracy influences ridiculous copy protection schemes like the Bioshock PC installation fiasco.

XBOX LIVE KILLED GAMINGtaikthebate

Rofl, Why do you say that pal?

You missed the buggest one. MS.

MS comes out with XBOX late, no big deal. But then the 360 is early. Therefore, Xbox is cut extremely short. And because 360 comes out early, they are able to build a hype around zero competition. They are also able to build a large library with the lead. Both lead to 360 having a large install base. That install base leads to devs focusing on 360. That focus is then taken away from PS3. Ps3 then has worse multiplats. Worse multiplats then adds to the 360-hype train.

Worst of all, MS doesn't include a standard HDD for all units. Which wouldn;t be so big if they included another large capacity storage medium like blu-ray, but they didn't. And then you have all of the reliability issues.

So, what happens next? A whole new MS console, out early, forcing gamers to completely split themselves. Moreso than we are now. And if this begins, how can it stop?

The_Crucible

A certain company that tries to sell us last gen hardware with new controllers and tons of remakes,multiplats and Mini-games compilations , THAT is hurting gaming the most.

Right now Sony is pretty much like Jesus they came to save gaming from damnation

AgentA-Mi6

[QUOTE="taikthebate"]XBOX LIVE KILLED GAMINGAgentA-Mi6

Rofl, Why do you say that pal?

Say what?

[QUOTE="The_Crucible"]

You missed the buggest one. MS.

MS comes out with XBOX late, no big deal. But then the 360 is early. Therefore, Xbox is cut extremely short. And because 360 comes out early, they are able to build a hype around zero competition. They are also able to build a large library with the lead. Both lead to 360 having a large install base. That install base leads to devs focusing on 360. That focus is then taken away from PS3. Ps3 then has worse multiplats. Worse multiplats then adds to the 360-hype train.

Worst of all, MS doesn't include a standard HDD for all units. Which wouldn;t be so big if they included another large capacity storage medium like blu-ray, but they didn't. And then you have all of the reliability issues.

So, what happens next? A whole new MS console, out early, forcing gamers to completely split themselves. Moreso than we are now. And if this begins, how can it stop?

anotherhaloguy1

That gave me 5 years on the 360 and all I need to do to upgrade my " Rig " is by the next console for 300-400 dollars ( and I still keep the old console& games ) and again I am gaming on the cutting edge.

As a PC gamer knows, after 5 years you had better be ready to spend a few hundred to upgrade or be stuck playing old games.

The best thing about console gaming is when you bring that new console home and un-pack , hook up and try the new controler out and the new features and of course be amazed at the new awesome graphics in the newest games on day one.

Gives me shivers man lol :)

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"]

[QUOTE="taikthebate"]XBOX LIVE KILLED GAMINGtaikthebate

Rofl, Why do you say that pal?

Say what?

What do you mean by "what" , Why do you think Xlive has hurt gaming ?

[QUOTE="Kestastrophe"][QUOTE="MrEpyx"]

Will games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo, & MGS go the way of the dinosaur due to their relatively high development costs?

MrEpyx

Gears, BioShock, and Halo have all sold very well and will continue to do so. Also, it looks like MGS4 will sell well too. I think that big budget hardcore games can still do well in a casual dominated market if they are made accessible and marketed correctly.

For example, just look at MP3. THey took a traditionally hardcore game (I never did beat the GC Prim games) and have made it accessible through control options and difficulty settings.

You missed the point. At one point in time, Creating a game like Halo or MGS was a huge risk. A lot of money was laid out up front and a lot of time was spent on development. Why would a game publisher take any more risks like that on new franchises if they can spend half the money on a warioware game and make twice the profit?

Wii titles aren't selling nearly as well as 360 titles, this the profits that you propose is completely speculative, although you are correct that the profit margins would be higher.

If BioShock was on the Wii, so you think that it would have sold enough to make money? BioShock is completely off-base in terms of the Wii's demographic. I believe that it would have made money on the Wii, but not enough more than it is making right now on the 360/PC, despite higher development costs.

In my opinion, as long as there are demographics that are stratafied as they are currently, there will be games to satisfy those markets.