Who cares about XNA?

SteamWorks FTW!

I realize that the PC stands so much higher than consoles that it's easy for PC news to pass over consolites' heads unnoticed (just kidding :p), but this bit of news from a couple of weeks ago is worth looking at:

Valve unveils SteamWorks

• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it's released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world's best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.Valve

And best of all? It's all totally free! XNA requires a $99/year subscription fee.

Now, which platform do you think indie devs and hobbyists will go for?

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

XaosII

I am with this guy.

While Steamworks is better, I'm still willing to get behind any move that promotes more indie games.myke2010

Same here.

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

XaosII

Same. XNA is a game development tool. Steamworks is a community evolution for developers and consumers. Not even competing with each other.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

maabus99

Same. XNA is a game development tool. Steamworks is a community evolution for developers and consumers. Not even competing with each other.

XNA is half game development, half publishing. SteamWorks is half post-development (beta testing, etc.), half publishing. They're not competing, but they're definitely sharing the same priorities. Add onto the fact that through Steam you can also get the Source dev tools, and you can see how they're almist the same in purpose.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and they are competing, because XNA is also supposed to be for PC development, not just for the 360.

[QUOTE="maabus99"][QUOTE="XaosII"]

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

mjarantilla

Same. XNA is a game development tool. Steamworks is a community evolution for developers and consumers. Not even competing with each other.

XNA is half game development, half publishing. SteamWorks is half post-development (beta testing, etc.), half publishing. They're not competing, but they're definitely sharing the same priorities. Add onto the fact that through Steam you can also get the Source dev tools, and you can see how they're almist the same in purpose.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and they are competing, because XNA is also supposed to be for PC development, not just for the 360.

Umm where XNA ends (being published) is basically where Steamworks begins (post publishing). The "beta" thing is an out of program data administrative tool. Read what you posted then read XNA. There is really barely any overlap. Plus 90% of Steamworks is someting developers will only use and see, while XNA actually creates content consumers will use. Again, I don't see any overlap. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if later on MSFT and Valve merge some of this functionality of their systems as this PC Gaming Alliance grows. It would be a perfect match for the PC since the live marketplace for XNA basically is all 360.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="maabus99"][QUOTE="XaosII"]

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

maabus99

Same. XNA is a game development tool. Steamworks is a community evolution for developers and consumers. Not even competing with each other.

XNA is half game development, half publishing. SteamWorks is half post-development (beta testing, etc.), half publishing. They're not competing, but they're definitely sharing the same priorities. Add onto the fact that through Steam you can also get the Source dev tools, and you can see how they're almist the same in purpose.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and they are competing, because XNA is also supposed to be for PC development, not just for the 360.

Umm where XNA ends (being published) is basically where Steamworks begins (post publishing). The "beta" thing is an out of program data administrative tool. Read what you posted then read XNA. There is really barely any overlap. Plus 90% of Steamworks is someting developers will only use and see, while XNA actually creates content consumers will use. Again, I don't see any overlap. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if later on MSFT and Valve merge some of this functionality of their systems as this PC Gaming Alliance grows. It would be a perfect match for the PC since the live marketplace for XNA basically is all 360.

SteamWorks isn't just post-publishing, it's post-development and publishing. Besides, it's not like Steam doesn't have its own dev tools a la XNA. You can download the Source SDK, after all. And there are a hundred different other options people can choose from on the PC. The only difference is that XNA is a closed, Microsoft-controlled system. Everything it does (for a price), can be done on the PC (for free). Its one advantage was its publishing pipeline, which is something that developers didn't have before. But now, SteamWorks just trumped it.

Also; i think downloading the SDK and making your games via steamworks is something a small development house with a budget might enjoy. XNA is more of a simplified series of development tools designed for the creation of smaller, simpler, downloadable games.

Also; i think downloading the SDK and making your games via steamworks is something a small development house with a budget might enjoy. XNA is more of a simplified series of development tools designed for the creation of smaller, simpler, downloadable games.Ninja-Vox

I'm pretty sure XNA still requires pretty in-depth programming. It's not "simple" by any means unless you're comparing it directly to dedicated console development. It's just as easy to make a game on Source as it is to make one on XNA. The difference is that Source scales higher to support full budget games. The same is true for other engines like UE3.0 (remember RoboBlitz and Undertow?), although you have to pay a licensing fee to use UE3.0.

SteamWorks isn't just post-publishing, it's post-development and publishing. Besides, it's not like Steam doesn't have its own dev tools a la XNA. You can download the Source SDK, after all. And there are a hundred different other options people can choose from on the PC. The only difference is that XNA is a closed, Microsoft-controlled system. Everything it does (for a price), can be done on the PC (for free). Its one advantage was its publishing pipeline, which is something that developers didn't have before. But now, SteamWorks just trumped it.

mjarantilla

Guess you missed the news today that MSFT is starting to post a lot of its software as open source for developers. 30,000 pages went up today or some insane number. Not much of an "evil empire" anymore which was always ludicrious in my mind(this relates to people saying this in general, not directed at anything you posted).

Anyways, you basically agreed with my crossover statement by saying post-development so we can stop there. I've given Steam a ton of my money, and it's a good thing it keeps evolving. I just don't know why you are trying to drag down XNA because it is an impressive change in game development that I see as completely different then Steam (which again competes more with marketplace, but I don't have a 360 to compare).

I just feel you're putting an uneeded hit against MSFT who honestly has made PC gaming what it is today through Windows (in case you forgot the DOS days and trying to get Esoniq or Soundblaster to work right...grrr).

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

Also; i think downloading the SDK and making your games via steamworks is something a small development house with a budget might enjoy. XNA is more of a simplified series of development tools designed for the creation of smaller, simpler, downloadable games.mjarantilla

I'm pretty sure XNA still requires pretty in-depth programming. It's not "simple" by any means unless you're comparing it directly to dedicated console development. It's just as easy to make a game on Source as it is to make one on XNA. The difference is that Source scales higher to support full budget games. The same is true for other engines like UE3.0 (remember RoboBlitz and Undertow?), although you have to pay a licensing fee to use UE3.0.

I think he means (or should mean) that XNA can be done by one person and Source usually needs a small team. I would agree with this because making a full up Source program that isn't a mod does take a lot of work. However the end results between a XNA project and Source project are also much different (with Source being more complex). Moreover Source is an engine with tools, XNA is just tools from what I read.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="maabus99"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="maabus99"][QUOTE="XaosII"]

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

maabus99

Same. XNA is a game development tool. Steamworks is a community evolution for developers and consumers. Not even competing with each other.

XNA is half game development, half publishing. SteamWorks is half post-development (beta testing, etc.), half publishing. They're not competing, but they're definitely sharing the same priorities. Add onto the fact that through Steam you can also get the Source dev tools, and you can see how they're almist the same in purpose.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and they are competing, because XNA is also supposed to be for PC development, not just for the 360.

Umm where XNA ends (being published) is basically where Steamworks begins (post publishing). The "beta" thing is an out of program data administrative tool. Read what you posted then read XNA. There is really barely any overlap. Plus 90% of Steamworks is someting developers will only use and see, while XNA actually creates content consumers will use. Again, I don't see any overlap. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if later on MSFT and Valve merge some of this functionality of their systems as this PC Gaming Alliance grows. It would be a perfect match for the PC since the live marketplace for XNA basically is all 360.

SteamWorks isn't just post-publishing, it's post-development and publishing. Besides, it's not like Steam doesn't have its own dev tools a la XNA. You can download the Source SDK, after all. And there are a hundred different other options people can choose from on the PC. The only difference is that XNA is a closed, Microsoft-controlled system. Everything it does (for a price), can be done on the PC (for free). Its one advantage was its publishing pipeline, which is something that developers didn't have before. But now, SteamWorks just trumped it.

Guess you missed the news today that MSFT is starting to post a lot of its software as open source for developers. 30'000 pages went up today or some insane number. Not much of an "evil empire" anymore which was always ludicrious in my mind.

Anyways, you basically agreed with my crossover statement by saying post-development so we can stop there. I've given Steam a ton of my money, and it's a good thing it keeps evolving. I just don't know why you are trying to drag down XNA because it is an impressive change in game development that I see as completely different then Steam (which again competes more with marketplace, but I don't have a 360 to compare).

I just feel your putting an uneeded hate against MSFT who honestly has made PC gaming what it is today through Windows (in case you forgot the DOS days and trying to get Esoniq or Soundblaster to work right...grrr).

DOS was Microsoft, too, and yes, I remember. My hate at them for giving us that for so many years hasn't quite died down yet. :lol: j/k, I actually like MS, but some things need to be put into perspective. XNA is just a pipe-dream. The open source community that would embrace this kind of thing doesn't really exist on consoles because consoles are, by definition, closed.

And MS's recent pledge for "open source" isn't really about open source as much as it's about black box interoperability: they'll show what's needed to interact with their products, but not the actual source code. That's NOT open source.

Link for the curious.

*CUTTING THREAD DOWN* mjarantilla

Yeah that was my point on MSFT improving PC gaming from DOS. They've done a lot.

XNA's big publicity is on the 360 but as you said earlier it could be used on a computer. However, what is a difference was how people could already use tools on a PC already with educational versions or cheap(free?) programming languages. As you said, consoles are closed unless you spend $$$$$$$$$$ on a dev kit. While it isn't a full "dev kit", it is a huge step for consoles to allow this and I think it is a great thing for MSFT to do. True there may be some oversight but lets judge how bad or good it is after a year or so once the kinks are worked out (or not).

Oh, towards the news today, yeah it isn't open source but it is something MSFT has never done before and been bashed a ton. Being this is code for their big profit names (Vista, Office, etc..), I think it is quiet a step, even if it was 10 pages. Again, Another big change for them that hopefully improves Windows' applications as a whole.

I care about XNA. I get to play early beta builds that are easily downloaded to my system and try them out. what's not to like?FoxHoundADAM

What is so bad about being able to create and sell indie games? I'll never be able to do it, but I wouldn't mind buying and supporting some of the creators out there, who would otherwise not have a chance. dru26

Indie developers are 2008, people can't see this. Why is that one of the biggest hyped games of the year is a PSN game? Why is XNA getting so much attention?

I bet you anything an indie game will win GOTY this year, I am glad indie games are finally getting the attention they deserve rather than ____ 2,3,4,5, one billion *glares at Gears of War 2 and sighs*

I dont believe that XNA and Steamworks target the same areas.

Infact, i dont see anything here that would prevent a game built on XNA to be distributed through Steam with Steamworks.

XaosII

XNA doesn't mean 'Xbox 360 only.' I think some people missed the point completely: Now indie games are exposed to a whole new crowd that wouldn't normally play something like Gary's Mod or your typical hobbyist game, with the service that follows XNA now they can.

The games that are currently demoing are pretty weak. 1 or 2 are fun, but most look okay at the best, a few look awful. They also don't feel like very big, games. I wouldn't buy 1 of those games, they look amateurish, which i guess they are.wiganath

I think you are looking too narrowly at the idea of XNA and Steamworks.

mjarantilla, it's safe to say your whole thread backfired.FrozenLiquid

Baah, I'm just out of practice. You'll see.

You'll ALL see!

I am sure all the games with $15 million+ budgets will continue to enjoy your business then:)

I think you are looking too narrowly at the idea of XNA and Steamworks.

maabus99

Credit to the guys making them, it's better than anything i could make. However, the games general look pretty poor and aren't particularly great to play.

As cool as it is that they are Indie, it doesn't change the fact that the games are kind of average if not poor. If they had made something that played or looked like Puzzlequest, i would think that they were awesome, but they haven't they've made basic little things you find on flash sites. It all seems kind of basic, but it is early days, who knows how it will progress. However, if those are the games that showcase the talent, then i doubt it will be for me.

Is system wars really at the level whereby people are now just bashing everything and anything for the very sake of it? You have a simple attempt to grow the market through user-created content; and look at the sheer number of people ready and waiting to tell you how garbage it is.

It's honestly as if some people here want gaming to simply collapse.

[QUOTE="maabus99"]

I am sure all the games with $15 million+ budgets will continue to enjoy your business then:)

I think you are looking too narrowly at the idea of XNA and Steamworks.

wiganath

Credit to the guys making them, it's better than anything i could make. However, the games general look pretty poor and aren't particularly great to play.

As cool as it is that they are Indie, it doesn't change the fact that the games are kind of average if not poor. If they had made something that played or looked like Puzzlequest, i would think that they were awesome, but they haven't they've made basic little things you find on flash sites. It all seems kind of basic, but it is early days, who knows how it will progress. However, if those are the games that showcase the talent, then i doubt it will be for me.

Have you actually seen any of the XNA games? Some of them are absolutely fantastic. Dishwasher was both hilarious and incredibly fun. And there are some beautiful art **** being used. I wouldn't compare them flash games at all - and of course dont forget, these games were entered into a contest wherein applicants had just four months to create and submit a finished game.

SteamWorks FTW!

I realize that the PC stands so much higher than consoles that it's easy for PC news to pass over consolites' heads unnoticed (just kidding :p), but this bit of news from a couple of weeks ago is worth looking at:

[quote="Valve"]Valve unveils SteamWorks

• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it's released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world's best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.mjarantilla

And best of all? It's all totally free! XNA requires a $99/year subscription fee.

Now, which platform do you think indie devs and hobbyists will go for?

Um this is for marketed multi million dollar games not for community based indie games and others of the sort from the sound of it.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

SteamWorks FTW!

I realize that the PC stands so much higher than consoles that it's easy for PC news to pass over consolites' heads unnoticed (just kidding :p), but this bit of news from a couple of weeks ago is worth looking at:

[quote="Valve"]Valve unveils SteamWorks

• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it's released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world's best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.justforlotr2004

And best of all? It's all totally free! XNA requires a $99/year subscription fee.

Now, which platform do you think indie devs and hobbyists will go for?

Um this is for marketed multi million dollar games not for community based indie games and others of the sort from the sound of it.

It's for both. It opens up the same channels that those big game devs use, and makes them available to the public.

It's for both. It opens up the same channels that those big game devs use, and makes them available to the public.

mjarantilla

Thats cool then, I personally dont use steam that much but from my experience its pretty good for developers with the security and stuff so thats a plus.

[Have you actually seen any of the XNA games? Some of them are absolutely fantastic. Dishwasher was both hilarious and incredibly fun. And there are some beautiful art **** being used. I wouldn't compare them flash games at all - and of course dont forget, these games were entered into a contest wherein applicants had just four months to create and submit a finished game. Ninja-Vox

I've played all 7 available. Maybe i'm being over critical, maybe they just aren't my. I'm not saying i hated them all, some of them looked okay visually and some of them seemed alright to play if not a little basic, or something ive not seen somewhere else.

Maybe i just had higher expectations than were achievable? I kind of hoped for some awesome games like Puzzlequest instead we get some rather basic games.

DOS was Microsoft, too, and yes, I remember. My hate at them for giving us that for so many years hasn't quite died down yet. :lol: j/k, I actually like MS, but some things need to be put into perspective. XNA is just a pipe-dream. The open source community that would embrace this kind of thing doesn't really exist on consoles because consoles are, by definition, closed.

The same people who like to make games on the PC will likely also like to make them on the 360. It's the key that opens the door to that "closed" system. The things they are doing would be the same, the only difference is the target where their applicaiton ends up.

And MS's recent pledge for "open source" isn't really about open source as much as it's about black box interoperability: they'll show what's needed to interact with their products, but not the actual source code. That's NOT open source.

Link for the curious.

mjarantilla

I understand what you're saying, but home programmers and "open sourcers" are not really the same thing. Sure the die hard open source advocates may balk at XNA, but those who use open source merely as a cheap delivery method will likely be very excitied at the potential to reach millions of new users without much in the way of costs to themselves. You're right, it may never amount to anything...but this is something that has tremendous potential upside and little to no potential downside.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"][Have you actually seen any of the XNA games? Some of them are absolutely fantastic. Dishwasher was both hilarious and incredibly fun. And there are some beautiful art **** being used. I wouldn't compare them flash games at all - and of course dont forget, these games were entered into a contest wherein applicants had just four months to create and submit a finished game. wiganath

I've played all 7 available. Maybe i'm being over critical, maybe they just aren't my. I'm not saying i hated them all, some of them looked okay visually and some of them seemed alright to play if not a little basic, or something ive not seen somewhere else.

Maybe i just had higher expectations than were achievable? I kind of hoped for some awesome games like Puzzlequest instead we get some rather basic games.

SteamWorks FTW!

I realize that the PC stands so much higher than consoles that it's easy for PC news to pass over consolites' heads unnoticed (just kidding :p), but this bit of news from a couple of weeks ago is worth looking at:

[quote="Valve"]Valve unveils SteamWorks

• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it's released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world's best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.mjarantilla

And best of all? It's all totally free! XNA requires a $99/year subscription fee.

Now, which platform do you think indie devs and hobbyists will go for?

Doesnt include development tools. XNA comes with code librarys and a whole suit of API's. Its also free if you only relese your game on the PC.

Don't you think you're being a little hasty here? How about we give it more than a day to pass judgement.Steppy_76

Maybe, but out of 200+ games these are the 7 they picked to showcase the excellence of XNA, which doesn't inspire me with confidence really. However it is early doors, you are correct, so maybe things will get better.

I care.

This is nothing more than a fanboy thread.

More options is now bad?

More competition is now bad?

More people now able to test out their skills and creativity at little cost and share their works with millions of people is now bad?

Only upside and no downside is now bad?

Amazing. Astonishing. Amusing. This topic is rich in AAA narrow mindedness.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

SteamWorks FTW!

I realize that the PC stands so much higher than consoles that it's easy for PC news to pass over consolites' heads unnoticed (just kidding :p), but this bit of news from a couple of weeks ago is worth looking at:

[quote="Valve"]Valve unveils SteamWorks

• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it's released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world's best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.TOAO_Cyrus1

And best of all? It's all totally free! XNA requires a $99/year subscription fee.

Now, which platform do you think indie devs and hobbyists will go for?

Doesnt include development tools. XNA comes with code librarys and a whole suit of API's. Its also free if you only relese your game on the PC.

Source is free, and downloadable off Steam. XNA is only free if you release your game on the PC because XNA doesn't offer publishing tools for PC-based digital distribution. The only thing that's "free" about XNA on the PC is that the EULA allows you to distribute games without paying MS a licensing fee.