Why are good developers dying & bad/mediocre deveopers thriving?

I asked a similiar question a few months back but this is still bothering me. Why are publishers closing down great development studios because out of all the great games they make, one wasn't on par with the rest of their catalog?For example...

Factor 5 was such a great development team. They made the Rogue Squadron games that where great and fun to play, yet they make a launch title for the PS3 called "Lair" and everyone except me hated it. True, I hate motion controls but they made it so you could play it without having to use the sixaxis motion and they went under soon after. In my opinion "Lair" was a really fun game and if either the developers had given the option to control the dragons by using the thumb sticks or if the gamer was willing to play a game with a different control scheme than most flight games, maybe Factor 5 would have made a trilogy out of "Lair" which had a great game universe. But now Factor 5 closed up shop. I mean Factor 5 made the awesome Star Wars Rogue Squadron games.

Another one being Pandemic, they consistanly made awesome games, yet they make that last Mercenaries game and crash, there goes another great studio with a great back catalog of games they did like Star Wars: Battlefront. Yet because of one game they went under.

Another example being Free Radical Design, they made amazing games like Timesplitters series, yet they make "Haze" and they go bankrupt. But at least they are still alive in a way since Crytek bought them and now they are called Crytek UK and they made the multiplayer portion of "Crysis 2" and are now making "Homefront 2"(that is if THQ stays alive long enough).

Another example is Zipper Interactive, nearly every game Zipper Interactive made was worth it. The Socom series are a lot of fun, MAG was fun in it's own way and the novelty of playing with 256 players on the same map was awesome. I haven't got to play their swan song "Unit 13" because I don't have a PS Vita yet. But these guys should not have been shut down.

Another example is Kaos Studios, sure their back catalog wasn't was good as the rest I mentioned above but they didn't deserve to be closed because I noticed that each game they made was better than the last game they made so they were learning from their mistakes. Yet, now they are gone too.

Another example is Volition, even though it hasn't closed yet I gurantee it is one bad game away in terms of sales for that studio to be shut down. They even said that they are no longer making future games of one of their best franchises, "Red Faction".

I just can't understand how good developers like the ones I listed above are gone or on life support are dying or dead, yet developers that continue to make shovelware thrive.

They made less money than they spent. jg4xchamp

I was literally about to say these exact words.

They made less money than they spent. jg4xchamp

Wouldn't that be the publishers problem and not the developer?

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]They made less money than they spent. ElectronicMagic

Wouldn't that be the publishers problem and not the developer?

When the publisher shuts you down then it becomes your problem also.

Casualization.

Because good developers are given higher budgets and publisher expect higher profits from their work. Slip once or twice and they can find themselves shut down.

Shovelware developers operate by taking the least risk possible and trying to squeeze as much return out of it as they can. Whereas good developers tend to aim high so they fail more often (and more visibly, since no one cares what happens to a shovelware developer)

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

GamerwillzPS

Quite a controversial opinion you have there.

Because they weren't making Call of Duty clones.

Publishers have been known to lay off proven developers to bring in kids straight out of college. They can pay them alot less and treat them like crap. Its really, really sad.

Because the casual mass who are now 'gamers' are easy to please.

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

GamerwillzPS

Factor 5 pushed Nintendo consoles well but their games were average imho.

Also, Timesplitters never matched the brilliance of GoldenEye and Perfect Dark (in their times).

And Red Faction was just average.

[QUOTE="GamerwillzPS"]

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

balfe1990

Quite a controversial opinion you have there.

Your OS in your sig... What the fack.

Because the casual mass who are now 'gamers' are easy to please.

C_Rule

And this ^.

@ crimsonman1245

it's more complex than that.

The casual mass "gamer" do not desire the games that "traditional gamers" consider 'great' thus those type of titles sell less and the games that casual gamers eat up are considered good because developers see they are selling. Thus the devs we traditional gamers consider 'good' shy away from making games that press forward with things we admire and fall back to mediocrity or just stop making games all together.

Even from Software was a bit guilty of this going from Demon's souls to Dark Souls, but even dark souls stands out as a stark contrast from the majority of devs who have simply abandoned going all in on games that cater to the core gamer instead of the easy cash in.

Case in point, games like Demon's has to be a labor of love from Devs because the majority of developers simply find it easier to cash on the overwhelming simplicity of making casual focused games that ensure mass profit...minimal effort

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]They made less money than they spent. ElectronicMagic

Wouldn't that be the publishers problem and not the developer?

Once the developer is no longer a good investment for the publisher, then the developer will be shut down because no one will give them money to create more games

Well they don't have good business men that can manage their budgets and take the hard decisions.

If you devote your resources to making a great game, the game may end up being great but no one will know about it.

If you devote your resources to marketing the game as a great game, the game will be bad but everyone will think it's great and go out and buy it.

@ crimsonman1245

it's more complex than that.

The casual mass "gamer" do not desire the games that "traditional gamers" consider 'great' thus those type of titles sell less and the games that casual gamers eat up are considered good because developers see they are selling. Thus the devs we traditional gamers consider 'good' shy away from making games that press forward with things we admire and fall back to mediocrity or just stop making games all together.

Even from Software was a bit guilty of this going from Demon's souls to Dark Souls, but even dark souls stands out as a stark contrast from the majority of devs who have simply abandoned going all in on games that cater to the core gamer instead of the easy cash in.

Case in point, games like Demon's has to be a labor of love from Devs because the majority of developers simply find it easier to cash on the overwhelming simplicity of making casual focused games that ensure mass profit...minimal effort

casharmy

I asked a similiar question a few months back but this is still bothering me. Why are publishers closing down great development studios because out of all the great games they make, one wasn't on par with the rest of their catalog?For example...

Factor 5 was such a great development team. They made the Rogue Squadron games that where great and fun to play, yet they make a launch title for the PS3 called "Lair" and everyone except me hated it. True, I hate motion controls but they made it so you could play it without having to use the sixaxis motion and they went under soon after. In my opinion "Lair" was a really fun game and if either the developers had given the option to control the dragons by using the thumb sticks or if the gamer was willing to play a game with a different control scheme than most flight games, maybe Factor 5 would have made a trilogy out of "Lair" which had a great game universe. But now Factor 5 closed up shop. I mean Factor 5 made the awesome Star Wars Rogue Squadron games.

Another one being Pandemic, they consistanly made awesome games, yet they make that last Mercenaries game and crash, there goes another great studio with a great back catalog of games they did like Star Wars: Battlefront. Yet because of one game they went under.

Another example being Free Radical Design, they made amazing games like Timesplitters series, yet they make "Haze" and they go bankrupt. But at least they are still alive in a way since Crytek bought them and now they are called Crytek UK and they made the multiplayer portion of "Crysis 2" and are now making "Homefront 2"(that is if THQ stays alive long enough).

Another example is Zipper Interactive, nearly every game Zipper Interactive made was worth it. The Socom series are a lot of fun, MAG was fun in it's own way and the novelty of playing with 256 players on the same map was awesome. I haven't got to play their swan song "Unit 13" because I don't have a PS Vita yet. But these guys should not have been shut down.

Another example is Kaos Studios, sure their back catalog wasn't was good as the rest I mentioned above but they didn't deserve to be closed because I noticed that each game they made was better than the last game they made so they were learning from their mistakes. Yet, now they are gone too.

Another example is Volition, even though it hasn't closed yet I gurantee it is one bad game away in terms of sales for that studio to be shut down. They even said that they are no longer making future games of one of their best franchises, "Red Faction".

I just can't understand how good developers like the ones I listed above are gone or on life support are dying or dead, yet developers that continue to make shovelware thrive.

ElectronicMagic

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

GamerwillzPS

+10 for original thought

man this is like the 5th tldr im handing out today.. you getting the XL size on this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXRAsUOblV4

All those games you rattled off we're sub par. And so we're the devs. It's a privalage to work in the games industry. Heck it's a privilage to work anywhere these days if you make crap u got to go.

It's all up to the publisher. You struggle on your own, and risk everything. OR, you saddle up and do what you can, and leave the rest up to the suits. Even if they do great, and make a profit on every title they've made, a publisher won't rule out the idea of cutting you loose... for no other reason than money. Of course, keeping consistent in your quality and profits are important too.

That's a problem with signing up with a publisher. Especially giants like EA. They overstaff, buy studios left and right, open them personally, etc...Eventually though, they hit slumps overall, and then make cuts. That, or, you make one subpar game, and you are suddenly trash to be disposed of.

Then you have mediocre devs who make a one trick pony, and they get milked for a looooong time after. Why, because the masses don't know, or don't care.

They made less money than they spent. jg4xchamp

[QUOTE="balfe1990"]

[QUOTE="GamerwillzPS"]

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

GamerwillzPS

Quite a controversial opinion you have there.

Your OS in your sig... What the fack.

because marketing is more important than making good games in this gen's gaming development. AKA, commerical CGI that's not gonna seen in game, well cut trailers, developer interview etc. and tons of them on youtube, facebook, TV commerical time etc. which cost roughly equal if not bigger than the game making cost. COD for example, hated by everyone on internet, but when their "cool trailer" surfaced, it turns most haters from "I will never buy another COD from these sucm bag ever again" to "omg, this might be the first COD I like!(same with the last 6)"

man this is like the 5th tldr im handing out today.. you getting the XL size on this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXRAsUOblV4ionusX

They made the Rogue Squadron games that where great and fun to play, yet they make a launch title for the PS3 called "Lair" and everyone except me hated it.ElectronicMagic

Some developers made the jump to next gen very badly. Every developer on your list released a game this generation which just wasn't good enough to appear on the hardware it was released on. Even some top-tier developers have struggled with the new hardware and new graphics standards. Ninja-Hippo

This is very true; in spite of this we still have some hermits clamouring for next gen complaining that our consoles are "lightyears behind".

[QUOTE="ElectronicMagic"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]They made less money than they spent. lostrib

Wouldn't that be the publishers problem and not the developer?

Once the developer is no longer a good investment for the publisher, then the developer will be shut down because no one will give them money to create more games

Yes, I understand this but weren't Factor 5, Free Radical Design independant developers? I know Pandemic was owned by EA when they got shutdown but when they weren't working for EA they were making good games. It makes me worry for developers like Bioware that might make one bad game and get shut down for it. I am glad Obsidian is still alive after that awful game they made that showed a lot of promise, I think it was called Alpha Protocol. I'm glad that Silicon Knights is still around after that bad game they made called Too Human and they blamed Epic Games for it being bad.

Realtime Worlds is another example, they made a fun first game in the original Crackdown, but then they make APB and go bankrupt. It's just sad to see such talent get shut down for one bad game.

Gaming is not as niche as it used to be, there are metric f*ckloads of very casual gamers out there who buy whatever looks pretty on the shelf at gamestop and say its fun. It's easy to please them and they make the most money. Big companies and publishers can aim at this, and make ludicrous profits. The big publishers buy out independant successful devs and force them to follow the model and fire those who dont cooperate. It's basically a corporate game of pac-man....the good guys get eaten up

[QUOTE="ionusX"]

man this is like the 5th tldr im handing out today.. you getting the XL size on this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXRAsUOblV4SciFiRPGfan

They made the Rogue Squadron games that where great and fun to play, yet they make a launch title for the PS3 called "Lair" and everyone except me hated it.ElectronicMagic

I guess Lair could have been considered niche at first since it originally only used the sixaxis motion controls. But by the time they patched it so that you could fly the Dragons using the thumbsticks it was too late for them. I played it before they patched it and I didn't have any problems that most people had with flying the dragons with the sixaxis motion controls, even though I personally dislike motion controls. I thought Lair was a good game and had the potential to be a great series if Factor 5 was still around. The universe it takes place was a great one in my opinion.

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

GamerwillzPS

[QUOTE="GamerwillzPS"]

Because of COD. This is why it really annoys me when people are still buying COD games. People who are buying Black Ops 2 should be shot.

Evz0rz

I agree with you. I love Call of Duty games, but I also buy and play games like Warp, Fable Heroes, The Walking Dead, Limbo, etc,

Gaming is not as niche as it used to be, there are metric f*ckloads of very casual gamers out there who buy whatever looks pretty on the shelf at gamestop and say its fun. It's easy to please them and they make the most money. Big companies and publishers can aim at this, and make ludicrous profits. The big publishers buy out independant successful devs and force them to follow the model and fire those who dont cooperate. It's basically a corporate game of pac-man....the good guys get eaten up

wis3boi

its like the movie industry or the music industry now, dont see why people find it hard to get that.If you like specific genre's you dig and dig and you can come up tops.

Look at my favourite genre of music (death metal and its derivatives) hardly the most mainstream hell its hard for me to pick up anything in my local HMV apart from the big guns.Gaming is becoming like tha its just a form of media with a wide variety of games, tastes and ideology.Sure you have the people that will be happy with the bigger games and all that bit like myself and others who favour more obscure titles aswell.

Games has just become like its counterparts in the media buisness, but a lot of gamers dont seem to grasp that and seem stuck in their ackward spoiled brat/self entitled little world.