why are people saying the wii will ruin the industry

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monkeysrfat

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#1 monkeysrfat
Member since 2007 • 1789 Posts

I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago. 

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Vax45

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#2 Vax45
Member since 2005 • 4834 Posts
They're fanboys, ignore them.
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hongkingkong

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#3 hongkingkong
Member since 2006 • 9368 Posts
If anything, graphics whoring (cough*PS3*cough) and only focusing on realism ruins games, not trying to find new ways to have fun.  Graphics will get better with or without the PS3 so supporting this console now would not somehow lead the world into a golden age of realistic gaming next gen.
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lordlors

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#4 lordlors
Member since 2004 • 6128 Posts

They're fanboys, ignore them.Vax45

very true. they will always find lame ways to bash the wii. 

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pundog

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#5 pundog
Member since 2006 • 4491 Posts
The theory goes that because the Wii is largely marketed to casuals obviously casual games will sell. The top 2 selling games on the Wii are Wii Sports and Wii Play, case in point. Assuming this trend continues it means developers will be more likely to a) casual up their games and b) stop putting effort into their work. If 50 cent: Bulletproof can sell as well as it did, why would developers spend more time and more money making a great game when they can just crank out generic s*** and make more money. Console games like Oblivion, the R6 and GR series and others show a trend of games becoming more casual friendly in order to increase sales, leaving classic series shadows of their former selves.
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Pangster007

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#6 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago. monkeysrfat
Fanboys.

If the industry was getting ruined, it would have happened long ago. 

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Eponique

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#7 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
They're so worried that their favourite genre would get taken over by Nintendo games. These self-proclaimed "hardcore-gamers" think the gaming world is centred around them, and that shooters are the only good genre out there.
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JDW_games

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#8 JDW_games
Member since 2006 • 1892 Posts
I can honestly say I that I had my doubts about the Wii, but after finally getting one and playing Wii Sports, I'm hooked. :) Bowling and Golf are so much fun with the Wii controller! Nintendo makes gaming fun and they are bringing gamers back to the good old days while still creating new and next gen games at the same time. Nintendo is on the right track.
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subrosian

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#9 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts

The theory goes that because the Wii is largely marketed to casuals obviously casual games will sell. The top 2 selling games on the Wii are Wii Sports and Wii Play, case in point. Assuming this trend continues it means developers will be more likely to a) casual up their games and b) stop putting effort into their work. If 50 cent: Bulletproof can sell as well as it did, why would developers spend more time and more money making a great game when they can just crank out generic s*** and make more money. Console games like Oblivion, the R6 and GR series and others show a trend of games becoming more casual friendly in order to increase sales, leaving classic series shadows of their former selves.pundog


It's actually somewhat correct. There's a zero-sum game being played here with development budgets. Lets say a third party developer has forty million to spend in a year. They can put that forty million towards one 360 / PS3 game that takes two years to make, expecting to make fifty million in sales (10 million profit) or they can make four - ten million dollar Wii games, each of which takes a year to make, and each of which have expected sales of fifteen million (20 million profit).

20 million year > 5 million year.

The Wii fanboys  like to argue that  the Wii is  "bringing more people and money into gaming" but the reality is if enough casuals are in the industry, there's no incentive to put the huge budgets and time into hardcore games. Consider, if the hardcore game fails, they're out a ton of money - but in the scenario with four Wii games, even if one sold zero copies they'd still be profitable.

The only thing that prevents a total shift to casual games is competition - with fewer hardcore games, you can have a better chance of making money with one of the rare "more hardcore" titles than a casual title. But even this is tainted by casuals - after all, you can get your hardcore gamers (by definition) to play a less complex version of a game they want more readily than you can get a casual to play a game they think is "too complicated and too hard".

And this has been what has been happening to some extent, some games are being dumbed down to appeal to a broader audience. Things get simplified, oftentimes at the expense of what made a series appealing in the first place.

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subrosian

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#10 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts

[QUOTE="monkeysrfat"]I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago. Pangster007

Fanboys.

If the industry was getting ruined, it would have happened long ago.


It did, it has been ruined at a few points in gaming history, the biggest one in 1982 / 1983, thanks to shoddy ports, a flood of poorly made games, and a glut of awful movie games in the Atari 2600 days.
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JDW_games

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#11 JDW_games
Member since 2006 • 1892 Posts
That's not true. Just cause gamers buy "casual" games doesn't mean that developers will quit spending money on their classics or ongoing series. There will always be a market for different types of games. If anything, it's just expanding the market.
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#12 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

[QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="monkeysrfat"]I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago. subrosian
Fanboys.

If the industry was getting ruined, it would have happened long ago.

t did, it has been ruined at a few points in gaming history, the biggest one in 1982 / 1983, thanks to shoddy ports, a flood of poorly made games, and a glut of awful movie games in the Atari 2600 days.

If so, there's no reason to single out the Wii. Fanboys make it out that the Wii alone will ruin gaming forever.

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Runningflame570

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#13 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts
Because the Wii like the DS focuses almost exclusively on the casual gamer and non-gamer and like the DS it has suffered in certain respects because of this.
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deathmasterk

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#14 deathmasterk
Member since 2006 • 716 Posts

I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago. 

monkeysrfat
they worry because a half priced, less powerful machine is killing the other two.
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Pangster007

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#15 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

Because the Wii like the DS focuses almost exclusively on the casual gamer and non-gamer and like the DS it has suffered in certain respects because of this.Runningflame570
There are still hardcore games on the DS :|

You have prove that the DS has 'suffered'? 

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Runningflame570

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#16 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Because the Wii like the DS focuses almost exclusively on the casual gamer and non-gamer and like the DS it has suffered in certain respects because of this.Pangster007

There are still hardcore games on the DS :|

You have prove that the DS has 'suffered'?

Yes. Count the highest selling games (the ones by a wide margin) they are either pretty much the same ****ing games I've been playing for the last 14 years or very casual-oriented (BrainAge, Nintendogs, ect). There is a dearth of non-casual and quality content on the DS for the most part and it doesn't even make up for it by offering many complex titles.

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#17 lordlors
Member since 2004 • 6128 Posts

[QUOTE="Runningflame570"]Because the Wii like the DS focuses almost exclusively on the casual gamer and non-gamer and like the DS it has suffered in certain respects because of this.Pangster007

There are still hardcore games on the DS :|

You have prove that the DS has 'suffered'?

Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?

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Runningflame570

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#18 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts

Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?

lordlors

Compare to any number of the original and complex RPGs on PSP not to mention the ones coming out. 

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Eponique

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#19 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
The DS does have games for "hardcore gamers", you just gotta look harder.
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#20 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
[QUOTE="lordlors"]Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?Runningflame570
Compare to any number of the original and complex RPGs on PSP not to mention the ones coming out.

Those are just proportions, look at the bigger picture, there still loads of hardcore games even if they're outnumbered by casual-orientated ones. There are still hardcore games and that market is being catered for.
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subrosian

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#21 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts
[QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="lordlors"]Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?Pangster007
Compare to any number of the original and complex RPGs on PSP not to mention the ones coming out.

Those are just proportions, look at the bigger picture, there still loads of hardcore games even if they're outnumbered by casual-orientated ones. There are still hardcore games and that market is being catered for.


I like the DS Castlevanias - but it's the Gamecube all over again for me again - waiting months for a title that interests me to show up, then praying it's something special. When development focuses on casuals, you don't get as many shots at that perfect title, and innovation in the hardcore market is stiffled - they make the games for the hardcore, but not something new and different aimed exclusively at the hardcore - and that hurts.
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Eponique

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#22 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts

[QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="lordlors"]Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?subrosian
Compare to any number of the original and complex RPGs on PSP not to mention the ones coming out.

Those are just proportions, look at the bigger picture, there still loads of hardcore games even if they're outnumbered by casual-orientated ones. There are still hardcore games and that market is being catered for.


I like the DS Castlevanias - but it's the Gamecube all over again for me again - waiting months for a title that interests me to show up, then praying it's something special. When development focuses on casuals, you don't get as many shots at that perfect title, and innovation in the hardcore market is stiffled - they make the games for the hardcore, but not something new and different aimed exclusively at the hardcore - and that hurts.

There will always be these "hardcore games" (what the hell does that mean anyway? Shooters?), as long as there are
people who will buy it. 

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subrosian

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#23 subrosian
Member since 2005 • 14232 Posts

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Runningflame570"][QUOTE="lordlors"]Etrian Odyysey is an example of a pure hardcore RPG game that traces back to the RPG of the past that requires deep thinking and writing a map, right?Eponique

Compare to any number of the original and complex RPGs on PSP not to mention the ones coming out.

Those are just proportions, look at the bigger picture, there still loads of hardcore games even if they're outnumbered by casual-orientated ones. There are still hardcore games and that market is being catered for.


I like the DS Castlevanias - but it's the Gamecube all over again for me again - waiting months for a title that interests me to show up, then praying it's something special. When development focuses on casuals, you don't get as many shots at that perfect title, and innovation in the hardcore market is stiffled - they make the games for the hardcore, but not something new and different aimed exclusively at the hardcore - and that hurts.

There will always be these "hardcore games" (what the hell does that mean anyway? Shooters?), as long as there are
people who will buy it.



If you don't know that "hardcore" has nothing to do with FPS, or that "shooters" and "FPS" are two seperate genres, I don't know that you have enough experience with gaming to really get into a discussion about what "hardcore" means.

Hardcore games are title that push gaming as art, or push the art of gaming. That is an extremely simplified answer, but when we hold games up to the test of time, and really look at what games were worthwhile, it is the factor that surfaces. Titles that are stagnant, that do not push the software, hardware, acceptace of gaming as art, achieve praise for tight controls or stunning sound, et cetera - for example, a mediocre game based on a movie, are rejected from being hardcore titles.

In short, hardcore titles are titles that mirror what an ideal videogame is supposed to be, without constraints for the limitations imposed by weak hardware, limited budget, or the inability of most people to appreciate or even play such a masterpiece. It is to gaming what a star athlete is to a sport.

Hardcore titles are few and far between on the DS, and for that matter, most Nintendo platforms. Nintendo makes fun games, that make some quality series, but they do not themselves produce many hardcore games anymore. They do not make a lot of titles designed to appeal to a longtime gamer who demands a gameplay experience as deep, well crafted, and well excecuted as any other work of fine art.
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#24 JPOBS
Member since 2007 • 9675 Posts

I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago.

monkeysrfat
am i the only one that read this far? you answered your own question.
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monkeysrfat

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#25 monkeysrfat
Member since 2007 • 1789 Posts
[QUOTE="monkeysrfat"]

I'am seriously wonderin why people think hte wii will ruin the industry. I see tons of people here getting so worried and concerned about it and I don't see why they are worrying so much. Has anyone ever looked at the sales charts? Whats the top selling game? Its usually a movie tie in with the odd hardcore game here and there. seriously people if casual games would ruin the industry it would've happened a long time ago.

JPOBS

am i the only one that read this far? you answered your own question.

If thats the case than the ps3 and 360 are ruining the game industry because they make movie tie ins 

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Runningflame570

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#26 Runningflame570
Member since 2005 • 10388 Posts

If thats the case than the ps3 and 360 are ruining the game industry because they make movie tie ins

monkeysrfat

They sure as heck aren't the highest selling games on those platforms though, or even close.