Why do lemmings compare their games to last-gen games?

From a Hermit's perspective:

I hate to target the lemmings here, but it really is all stemming from them. Not really their fault either, afterall, the 360 was released fist -- therefore had its franchise sequels before everyone else.

What I don't understand though, is the constant attempts at "ownage" by comparing their brand new games to last-gen PS2 or PC games.

It's pretty much a universally agreed upon issue by lemmings for example, that Forza 2 is better than the Gran Turismo. Now I played GT4, and I thought it was brilliant for it's time, and the fact that it has a much larger car and track selection than a next-gen title is quite impressive.

But lemmings bash the GT franchise because their new game is better than Poly's old game, and I'm sitting here thinking, "Damn I sure hope it is...." I honestly hope that an Xbox360 is capable of better physics than a Playstation 2.

Halo 3 is compared to practically every shooter last gen, mostly Half-Life 2 though. However, I find this argument funny, because most people think HL2 is still better (uh oh my Hermit side is showing).

And what's with Lost Odyssey versus [insert Final Fantasy game here]. Really, congratulations on finally getting an enjoyable JRPG, and even though a 10 year old Final Fantasy title has done everything LO has before, lemmings somehow find the nerve to say things like, LO>FF12.

Sometimes they even use Mass Effect to show how much better their games are then last gen JRPGs.

One of the biggest "versus" arguments was GeOW verse a PS3 launch title (Resistance)

To me, by comparing brand new titles to outdated ones, is basically saying that the outdated title was so good, you think it still has enough to go up against an entirely new and upgraded generation of software and hardware.

So yeah Forza 2 is better than GT4, but not by much -- which is exactly why people think they are good comparisons/rivals -- which also makes the people bragging look like complete morons.

How often do you see Hermits comparing The Witcher to Fable? Never. Because Fable doesn't hold a candle to The Witcher, so there is no need for Hermits to get defensive about games they know are better.

So what I am trying to say is:

How about waiting for FFXIII to come out before bashing FF?

How about waiting for Gran Turismo 5 to compare to Forza 2 (or 3)?

How about waiting for God of War 3 before claiming Ninja Gaiden 2 as the king?

You can't say your franchise sequels are superior, until others have gotten theirs...

Common sense, please use it.

Because they finally have games that are good enough to be compared to the good ones from last gen.Ragnarok1051

funny, cows dont even have games on that level yet :lol:

Halo 3 is compared to practically every shooter last gen, mostly Half-Life 2 though. However, I find this argument funny, because most people think HL2 is still better (uh oh my Hermit side is showing).HoldThePhone

I've personally seen every FPS, and a lot of other genres, compared to Halo 3. There have been loads of Halo/Half-Life 2 threads in the past, but it has been a while since I've seen one.

It is annoying, though I find it funny how Halo 3 seems to be what an FPS has to be compared against. :)

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]Because they finally have games that are good enough to be compared to the good ones from last gen.Rogers_Wireless

funny, cows dont even have games on that level yet :lol:

Just wait. :lol:

Im loving the rebuttals so far:

"Just wait".

Niiiicee..

Dude the answer is simple. There aren't enough solid next gen PS3 games to compare too.

Racing...compare to what? GT5 not out yet. That leaves Motorstorm which looks good, but thats about it.

Shooter...compare to what Resistance? Check. KZ2...not out yet.

JRPG...Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey etc...vs what exactly?

RTS...C&C vs what?

WRPG....Oblivion on both. Check. Mass Effect vs what?

Are you getting the point? Lemmings have either the same multiplats, or they have genres where not much good or nothing at all has been released by PS3.

What would you have them do? Compare against yet to be released games/vapourware? How would that be better?

Dude the answer is simple. There aren't enough solid next gen PS3 games to compare too.

Racing...compare to what? GT5 not out yet. That leaves Motorstorm which looks good, but thats about it.

Shooter...compare to what Resistance? Check. KZ2...not out yet.

JRPG...Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey etc...vs what exactly?

RTS...C&C vs what?

WRPG....Oblivion on both. Check. Mass Effect vs what?

Are you getting the point? Lemmings have either the same multiplats, or they have genres where not much good or nothing at all has been released by PS3.

What would you have them do? Compare against yet to be released games/vapourware? How would that be better?

SUD123456

I don't mind comparisons, what I mind is claiming ownage on outdated software.

It's like comparing color television to black and white.

You have a selective memory, I've seen far more comparasons to games either not out or games that are not alike in any real way far more times than I've seen comparasons between games from different gens.

Unless the comparason to the newer game is not flattering.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Dude the Fair answer is simple. There aren't enough solid next gen PS3 games to compare too.

Racing...compare to what? GT5 not out yet. That leaves Motorstorm which looks good, but thats about it.

Shooter...compare to what Resistance? Check. KZ2...not out yet.

JRPG...Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey etc...vs what exactly?

RTS...C&C vs what?

WRPG....Oblivion on both. Check. Mass Effect vs what?

Are you getting the point? Lemmings have either the same multiplats, or they have genres where not much good or nothing at all has been released by PS3.

What would you have them do? Compare against yet to be released games/vapourware? How would that be better?

HoldThePhone

I don't mind comparisons, what I mind is claiming ownage on outdated software.

It's like comparing color television to black and white.

Fair enough.

But then again, when GT5 is actually released will it be any 'fairer' to compare against Forza 2 and claim ownage? Which we both will know will happen in a major way. No. By then Forza 2 will be old news, and outdated, and Forza 3 will be around the corner.

My point being that it is not just lemmings. The only basis of comparison is going to be what is just been released vs what has gone before. It just so happens that in this gen lifecycle MS has a bigger and stronger library at the moment and Sony has not yet released anything in many genres.

[QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Dude the Fair answer is simple. There aren't enough solid next gen PS3 games to compare too.

Racing...compare to what? GT5 not out yet. That leaves Motorstorm which looks good, but thats about it.

Shooter...compare to what Resistance? Check. KZ2...not out yet.

JRPG...Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey etc...vs what exactly?

RTS...C&C vs what?

WRPG....Oblivion on both. Check. Mass Effect vs what?

Are you getting the point? Lemmings have either the same multiplats, or they have genres where not much good or nothing at all has been released by PS3.

What would you have them do? Compare against yet to be released games/vapourware? How would that be better?

SUD123456

I don't mind comparisons, what I mind is claiming ownage on outdated software.

It's like comparing color television to black and white.

Fair enough.

But then again, when GT5 is actually released will it be any 'fairer' to compare against Forza 2 and claim ownage? Which we both will know will happen in a major way. No. By then Forza 2 will be old news, and outdated, and Forza 3 will be around the corner.

My point being that it is not just lemmings. The only basis of comparison is going to be what is just been released vs what has gone before. It just so happens that in this gen lifecycle MS has a bigger and stronger library at the moment and Sony has not yet released anything in many genres.

It would be much fairer as both developers had their shot at making their franchise better on a new platform. Plus, everyone knows GT5 will be compared to Forza 3.

I'm sure cows or sheep would do the same thing if they got their games first, but right now this is how I see it -- and I don't like it.

It's a lesson to everyone, but lemmings are the prime example.

It would be much fairer as both developers had their shot at making their franchise better on a new platform. Plus, everyone knows GT5 will be compared to Forza 3.

HoldThePhone

Oh really? Then why are there 6 bazillion cow threads claiming GT5 ownage over Forza 2 and the game isn't even near out yet.

I have yet to see a cow thread saying GT5 is the ownage over Forza 3.

It cuts both ways.

Just going to chime in here and point out that the TC was ALSO pointing out comparison of 360 titles to extremely dated PC titles.

The console iteration issue has been addressed in a chicken and the egg kind of way but not the comparing Halo 3 to Half-Life 2 type discrepency. I'm more interested in hearing about that.

One of the biggest "versus" arguments was GeOW verse a PS3 launch title (Resistance)

To me, by comparing brand new titles to outdated ones, is basically saying that the outdated title was so good, you think it still has enough to go up against an entirely new and upgraded generation of software and hardware.

HoldThePhone

Your only problem is that Gears came out before Resistance, and it was a flat out war between cows and lemmings over which one would be better, obviously we know how that went. 9.6.

Just going to chime in here and point out that the TC was ALSO pointing out comparison of 360 titles to extremely dated PC titles.

The console iteration issue has been addressed in a chicken and the egg kind of way but not the comparing Halo 3 to Half-Life 2 type discrepency. I'm more interested in hearing about that.

Uberbadassmufuh

TC mentioned a grand total of one PC game.

A game that is widely recognized as a pinnacle of gaming and one of the best, if not the best ever FPS to be made.

An extremely high benchmark.

Comparing to one of the greatest games of all time is hardly comparing a colour TV to a black and white TV. Especially when that comparison is because of the Orange box release at the same time as Halo.

Having said that, there aren't too many lemmings actually making that claim.

Im loving the rebuttals so far:

"Just wait".

Niiiicee..

HoldThePhone

Dont mind them TC their just showing their fanboyism. How does a thread about claiming ownage to past titles = just wait ? .

Anyways back to topic, its because people like comparing games of similar nature or that are in direct competition with the game of their choosing. Thats the only reason why, it doesnt matter if the game is a past title or a unreleased title comparisions will be made regardless.

However I believe when people claim ownage to older titles its because they are insecure about the quality of their game, they feel it might not hold up to [insert title], which is why they bash it and claim ownage.

Phew =]

[QUOTE="Rogers_Wireless"]

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]Because they finally have games that are good enough to be compared to the good ones from last gen.ReverseCycology

funny, cows dont even have games on that level yet :lol:

Just wait. :lol:

owned :lol:

But lemmings bash the GT franchise because their new game is better than Poly's old game,HoldThePhone

Meanwhile, Turn 10 says Forza will have online racing, and they deliver. Turn 10 says Forza 2 will have 60FPS and a 360Hz physics model, and they deliver. I don't know what they'll promise for Forza 3, but I know this: PD makes promises. Turn 10 delivers results.

I dont understand, its not okay to compare GeOW to resistance because of some reason( something about being outdated, but both games released in the same month) but it would be okay to compare Forza 2 to GT5 which will release several years apart from each other.jet052006

It's not through lack of trying. It's lack of material to compare to. What other choice is there? Is there really a fair comparison to competing current gen games on other consoles?

Forza 2 against.... what? PGR vs.... ?

Halo 3 compared to.... Resistence?

Exactly what comparisons would you draw? Or should we wait?

[QUOTE="jet052006"]I dont understand, its not okay to compare GeOW to resistance because of some reason( something about being outdated, but both games released in the same month) but it would be okay to compare Forza 2 to GT5 which will release several years apart from each other.Dante2710

how sad

From a Hermit's perspective:

I hate to target the lemmings here, but it really is all stemming from them. Not really their fault either, afterall, the 360 was released fist -- therefore had its franchise sequels before everyone else.

What I don't understand though, is the constant attempts at "ownage" by comparing their brand new games to last-gen PS2 or PC games.

It's pretty much a universally agreed upon issue by lemmings for example, that Forza 2 is better than the Gran Turismo. Now I played GT4, and I thought it was brilliant for it's time, and the fact that it has a much larger car and track selection than a next-gen title is quite impressive.

The debate is rarely if Forza 2 is better than GT4, it's that the Forza series is better than the GT series. I don't think I've ever seen anyone using Forza 2 being better than GT4 as a "rallying" cry for the 360. Usually its the cows proclaiming GT5 better than Forza 2.

But lemmings bash the GT franchise because their new game is better than Poly's old game, and I'm sitting here thinking, "Damn I sure hope it is...." I honestly hope that an Xbox360 is capable of better physics than a Playstation 2.

Once again, I don't see any bragging of F2 being better than GT4.

Halo 3 is compared to practically every shooter last gen, mostly Half-Life 2 though. However, I find this argument funny, because most people think HL2 is still better (uh oh my Hermit side is showing).

Umm, either I'm crazy or its pretty commonplace to compare games to the best examples of their genre. Few games are GOOD enough to be compared with HL2(The HL series is my favorite). Better or worse is subjective, but most people feel H3 is one of the best of its genre. It's like rating the 10 best QB's of all time...everybody's list will have a lot of the same names, but the orders will be different.

And what's with Lost Odyssey versus [insert Final Fantasy game here]. Really, congratulations on finally getting an enjoyable JRPG, and even though a 10 year old Final Fantasy title has done everything LO has before, lemmings somehow find the nerve to say things like, LO>FF12.

This one I've heard a couple times, but it is by no means "mostly lemmings". I've heard cows say it about resistance(and the unreleased Killzone 2), sheep about Metriod Prime.

Sometimes they even use Mass Effect to show how much better their games are then last gen JRPGs.

One of the biggest "versus" arguments was GeOW verse a PS3 launch title (Resistance)

To me, by comparing brand new titles to outdated ones, is basically saying that the outdated title was so good, you think it still has enough to go up against an entirely new and upgraded generation of software and hardware.

How many times have we seen cows compare now to GeOW? Isn't it as stupid for them to constantly compare their games TO the now outdated GeOW?

So yeah Forza 2 is better than GT4, but not by much -- which is exactly why people think they are good comparisons/rivals -- which also makes the people bragging look like complete morons.

Once again, I don't think anybody uses this as "ownage" it's pretty much a given. I am thinking the title

How often do you see Hermits comparing The Witcher to Fable? Never. Because Fable doesn't hold a candle to The Witcher, so there is no need for Hermits to get defensive about games they know are better.

Your anti 360 bias is wearing thin a bit here.

So what I am trying to say is:

How about waiting for FFXIII to come out before bashing FF?

How about waiting for FFXIII to come out before praising it?

How about waiting for Gran Turismo 5 to compare to Forza 2 (or 3)?

How about waiting for Gran Turismo 5 to declare it better than Forza 2 (or 3)?

How about waiting for God of War 3 before claiming Ninja Gaiden 2 as the king?

Wait a minute how does that work? NG2 should be compared to games out at that time, not to ones off in the future...How about waiting for GOW 3 before comparing it to NG2. You seem to be flip flopping on what standards different groups of fans are held to.

You can't say your franchise sequels are superior, until others have gotten theirs...

It works both ways, NEITHER side can declare theirs better based on speculation. Lemmings at least have the actual games to play in the here and now...let the debate about future titles happen when the titles show up. Until then, even if it is just by default it comes down to simply math. Having 1 great game now versus 0 is better in the present.

Common sense, please use it.

HoldThePhone

HoldThePhone

I'm terribly sorry I used the GeoW to Resistance example. I just found it amusing that GeOW was put up against a launch title.

I see now that saying that has ruined my entire argument, and no one can look passed it.

[QUOTE="Rogers_Wireless"]

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]Because they finally have games that are good enough to be compared to the good ones from last gen.ReverseCycology

funny, cows dont even have games on that level yet :lol:

Just wait. :lol:

we have been :D

[QUOTE="Rogers_Wireless"]

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]Because they finally have games that are good enough to be compared to the good ones from last gen.ReverseCycology

funny, cows dont even have games on that level yet :lol:

Just wait. :lol:

June 12th is almost here.

It is annoying, though I find it funny how Halo 3 seems to be what an FPS has to be compared against. :)

Bansheesdie

From a Hermit's perspective:

I hate to target the lemmings here, but it really is all stemming from them. Not really their fault either, afterall, the 360 was released fist -- therefore had its franchise sequels before everyone else.

What I don't understand though, is the constant attempts at "ownage" by comparing their brand new games to last-gen PS2 or PC games.

It's pretty much a universally agreed upon issue by lemmings for example, that Forza 2 is better than the Gran Turismo. Now I played GT4, and I thought it was brilliant for it's time, and the fact that it has a much larger car and track selection than a next-gen title is quite impressive.

But lemmings bash the GT franchise because their new game is better than Poly's old game, and I'm sitting here thinking, "Damn I sure hope it is...." I honestly hope that an Xbox360 is capable of better physics than a Playstation 2.

Halo 3 is compared to practically every shooter last gen, mostly Half-Life 2 though. However, I find this argument funny, because most people think HL2 is still better (uh oh my Hermit side is showing).

And what's with Lost Odyssey versus [insert Final Fantasy game here]. Really, congratulations on finally getting an enjoyable JRPG, and even though a 10 year old Final Fantasy title has done everything LO has before, lemmings somehow find the nerve to say things like, LO>FF12.

Sometimes they even use Mass Effect to show how much better their games are then last gen JRPGs.

One of the biggest "versus" arguments was GeOW verse a PS3 launch title (Resistance)

To me, by comparing brand new titles to outdated ones, is basically saying that the outdated title was so good, you think it still has enough to go up against an entirely new and upgraded generation of software and hardware.

So yeah Forza 2 is better than GT4, but not by much -- which is exactly why people think they are good comparisons/rivals -- which also makes the people bragging look like complete morons.

How often do you see Hermits comparing The Witcher to Fable? Never. Because Fable doesn't hold a candle to The Witcher, so there is no need for Hermits to get defensive about games they know are better.

So what I am trying to say is:

How about waiting for FFXIII to come out before bashing FF?

How about waiting for Gran Turismo 5 to compare to Forza 2 (or 3)?

How about waiting for God of War 3 before claiming Ninja Gaiden 2 as the king?

You can't say your franchise sequels are superior, until others have gotten theirs...

Common sense, please use it.

HoldThePhone

it's because there aren't any games on the PS3 to compare them to, so they compare them to PS2 games.

From a Hermit's perspective:

I hate to target the lemmings here, but it really is all stemming from them. Not really their fault either, afterall, the 360 was released fist -- therefore had its franchise sequels before everyone else.

What I don't understand though, is the constant attempts at "ownage" by comparing their brand new games to last-gen PS2 or PC games.

It's pretty much a universally agreed upon issue by lemmings for example, that Forza 2 is better than the Gran Turismo. Now I played GT4, and I thought it was brilliant for it's time, and the fact that it has a much larger car and track selection than a next-gen title is quite impressive.

But lemmings bash the GT franchise because their new game is better than Poly's old game, and I'm sitting here thinking, "Damn I sure hope it is...." I honestly hope that an Xbox360 is capable of better physics than a Playstation 2.

Halo 3 is compared to practically every shooter last gen, mostly Half-Life 2 though. However, I find this argument funny, because most people think HL2 is still better (uh oh my Hermit side is showing).

And what's with Lost Odyssey versus [insert Final Fantasy game here]. Really, congratulations on finally getting an enjoyable JRPG, and even though a 10 year old Final Fantasy title has done everything LO has before, lemmings somehow find the nerve to say things like, LO>FF12.

Sometimes they even use Mass Effect to show how much better their games are then last gen JRPGs.

One of the biggest "versus" arguments was GeOW verse a PS3 launch title (Resistance)

To me, by comparing brand new titles to outdated ones, is basically saying that the outdated title was so good, you think it still has enough to go up against an entirely new and upgraded generation of software and hardware.

So yeah Forza 2 is better than GT4, but not by much -- which is exactly why people think they are good comparisons/rivals -- which also makes the people bragging look like complete morons.

How often do you see Hermits comparing The Witcher to Fable? Never. Because Fable doesn't hold a candle to The Witcher, so there is no need for Hermits to get defensive about games they know are better.

So what I am trying to say is:

How about waiting for FFXIII to come out before bashing FF?

How about waiting for Gran Turismo 5 to compare to Forza 2 (or 3)?

How about waiting for God of War 3 before claiming Ninja Gaiden 2 as the king?

You can't say your franchise sequels are superior, until others have gotten theirs...

Common sense, please use it.

HoldThePhone

wow. very good read. :). though this applies to nearly all fanboys, and ive seen stuff like this from all of em at sum stage, lemmings do take the lead in the score boards. its annoyin when they compare Forza 2 (or wat not) to GT4.

Common sense, please use it.

HoldThePhone

Ironyyyyy

[QUOTE="Dante2710"][QUOTE="jet052006"]I dont understand, its not okay to compare GeOW to resistance because of some reason( something about being outdated, but both games released in the same month) but it would be okay to compare Forza 2 to GT5 which will release several years apart from each other.100Gamer

how sad

Oh the sweet irony.

what are we supposed to do? compare them with imaginary games?TheDarkDisciple

i think cows want us to compare them to future games, like forza 2 to GT5...

[QUOTE="TheDarkDisciple"]what are we supposed to do? compare them with imaginary games?100Gamer

i think cows want us to compare them to future games, like forza 2 to GT5...

Why not? I see a lot of lemmings comparing Geow2 to every game.

[QUOTE="100Gamer"]

[QUOTE="TheDarkDisciple"]what are we supposed to do? compare them with imaginary games?Ragnarok1051

i think cows want us to compare them to future games, like forza 2 to GT5...

Why not? I see a lot of lemmings comparing Geow2 to every game.

lemmings never compared geow2 to any present ps3 game. stop lying :|

[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]

It is annoying, though I find it funny how Halo 3 seems to be what an FPS has to be compared against. :)

Stevo_the_gamer

I hate to rain on people's parade but the only people who use Halo 3 as the benchmark for FPS are people who don't have a gaming PC.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="100Gamer"]

[QUOTE="TheDarkDisciple"]what are we supposed to do? compare them with imaginary games?100Gamer

i think cows want us to compare them to future games, like forza 2 to GT5...

Why not? I see a lot of lemmings comparing Geow2 to every game.

lemmings never compared geow2 to any present ps3 game. stop lying :|

You're right many compared it to God.

[QUOTE="100Gamer"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="100Gamer"]

[QUOTE="TheDarkDisciple"]what are we supposed to do? compare them with imaginary games?Ragnarok1051

i think cows want us to compare them to future games, like forza 2 to GT5...

Why not? I see a lot of lemmings comparing Geow2 to every game.

lemmings never compared geow2 to any present ps3 game. stop lying :|

You're right many compared it to God.

is this supposed to be some witty damage control to your lie? :lol:

is this supposed to be some witty damage control to your lie? :lol:

100Gamer

What? Who's damage controlling? What's so funny?

How do we compare music of today to music of the 80s? How do we compare books written today to books written in the early 1900s? How do we compare movies made in the 1920s to movies made in the 1990s? Think about it, then re-evaluate what you have said.FrozenLiquid

Your post implies that gaming society, if not society as a whole has made the leap to viewing games as art rather than just entertainment. While I'm on board for that I think you'll find that most gamers are not, particularly not the segment found on the system wars board. I appreciate the sentiment being mentioned but it's like playing a violin in a slaughterhouse. The mob needs to learn to crawl on this one before it can do ballet.