Why do people say Smash Bros. isn't a real fighter?

Not really "innovation".

Other games might have done something similar before, but it is a good game. A very good game.

Because it developed by nintendo and they think since its nintendo it has to be casual and kiddy :roll:Gh0st_Of_0nyx

Not really "innovation".

Other games might have done something similar before, but it is a good game. A very good game.

Japanese_Monk

I have heard from other people that other games have done it before. But darn it if I have not seen a format like SSB before the first one came out.

Well, there's four players, they aren't close in proximity, there is more ground to cover, the stages have a large effect on the game, you don't have health, as well as numerous other things.

The result? An incredible fighter that beats out all the traditional ones.

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Because its developed by nintendo and they think since its nintendo it has to be casual and kiddy :roll:Phoenix963

[QUOTE="Japanese_Monk"]

Not really "innovation".

Other games might have done something similar before, but it is a good game. A very good game.

HarlockJC

I have heard from other people that other games have done it before. But darn it if I have not seen a format like SSB before the first one came out.

Here in Japan it isn't considered a fighter. Just a heads up. Also, I OWN Brawl, I picked it up a launch two months ago with DMC4.

[QUOTE="Phoenix963"][QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Because its developed by nintendo and they think since its nintendo it has to be casual and kiddy :roll:Gh0st_Of_0nyx

Well, there's four players, they aren't close in proximity, there is more ground to cover, the stages have a large effect on the game, you don't have health, as well as numerous other things.

The result? An incredible fighter that beats out all the traditional ones.

DeathScape666

You know at one time I use to have a lot of respect for Ed Boon because of the Mortal Kombat games. The Mortal Kombat games had a lot of firsts in them for fighting games. But it seems as years have gone on he is not has darning as he use to be. I would love to see him somehow don't know how. Use of 4 way fighting in a MK game. I use to love the MK games but after Gold I think it was they started to feel plain.

Here in Japan it isn't considered a fighter. Just a heads up. Also, I OWN Brawl, I picked it up a launch two months ago with DMC4.

kaos-hero

All fighters are called Action games in Japan.

[QUOTE="kaos-hero"]

Here in Japan it isn't considered a fighter. Just a heads up. Also, I OWN Brawl, I picked it up a launch two months ago with DMC4.

HarlockJC

All fighters are called Action games in Japan.

it is a fighter, just one that does not require skill and Nintendo will agree with this statement, they're all about opening the doors to casuals and keeping them in, and SSBB is a casual fighter, there's no quatercircle forward moves or DQCF FP specials or nothing like that, theres the punch/kick button, the "pick up/throw/use item" button and the grab button, thats pretty much all there is to it

it's a incredibally fun game and can be very addicting but theres nothing overly complex about it, it's a fighter that can be enjoyed by everyone so I don't see anything wrong with it

it is a fighter, just one that does not require skill and Nintendo will agree with this statement, they're all about opening the doors to casuals and keeping them in, and SSBB is a casual fighter, there's no quatercircle forward moves or DQCF FP specials or nothing like that, theres the punch/kick button, the "pick up/throw/use item" button and the grab button, thats pretty much all there is to it

it's a incredibally fun game and can be very addicting but theres nothing overly complex about it, it's a fighter that can be enjoyed by everyone so I don't see anything wrong with it

-theCHUD-

B button and shield button. Seriously, the only people who say Super Smash Bros isn't deep never played it competitivly.

Here in Japan it isn't considered a fighter. Just a heads up. Also, I OWN Brawl, I picked it up a launch two months ago with DMC4.

kaos-hero

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?

Because not every fighting game is the tradional kind.

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?

Cute_Red_Panda

[QUOTE="Cute_Red_Panda"]

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?

kaos-hero

Yeah, Taito is holding the Test run for SFIV. Tell me, in person does SFIV looks good? Didn't they also have a Tekken 6 tournament recently?

Seriously, unless you're KDJ, M2King, PC Chris, Ken, or Isai you can't say anything about Smash Bros' depth. And they say Smash Bros is deepStabby2486

right...

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"]Seriously, unless you're KDJ, M2King, PC Chris, Ken, or Isai you can't say anything about Smash Bros' depth. And they say Smash Bros is deepCute_Red_Panda

right...

Yes, it's the truth. Have you ever won over 50 thousand US dollars just by playing a game? Have you ever got past the qualifying rounds of MLG or Evo tournament? Stop pretending to be a expert on the game. You aren't.

Yeah, Taito is holding the Test run for SFIV. Tell me, in person does SFIV looks good? Didn't they also have a Tekken 6 tournament recently?

Cute_Red_Panda

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"][QUOTE="Phoenix963"][QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Because its developed by nintendo and they think since its nintendo it has to be casual and kiddy :roll:htekemerald

and fun = kiddy, right?

[QUOTE="Cute_Red_Panda"]

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"]Seriously, unless you're KDJ, M2King, PC Chris, Ken, or Isai you can't say anything about Smash Bros' depth. And they say Smash Bros is deepStabby2486

right...

Yes, it's the truth. Have you ever won over 50 thousand US dollars just by playing a game? Have you ever got past the qualifying rounds of MLG or Evo tournament? Stop pretending to be a expert on the game. You aren't.

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?

Cute_Red_Panda

You know I find that a funny thing to say. Due to the fact Napco has stated they are closing many arcades in Japan due to success of the Wii.

[QUOTE="Cute_Red_Panda"]

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"]Seriously, unless you're KDJ, M2King, PC Chris, Ken, or Isai you can't say anything about Smash Bros' depth. And they say Smash Bros is deepStabby2486

right...

Yes, it's the truth. Have you ever won over 50 thousand US dollars just by playing a game? Have you ever got past the qualifying rounds of MLG or Evo tournament? Stop pretending to be a expert on the game. You aren't.

I'm also a hardcore fighter...dood. Hey, there is a tournament next week called Final Round XI I'll be at that will have all the major fighters there. You should come...You dream about Evos, I know the people who wins them...dood. Final Round is the warm tournament just before EVO by the way. I think you really should come, it's great.

Ah, no they aren't. I live here dude. KoF, Blue Blaze, and SFIV are labeled as Fighters. Smash has never been labeled as one.
kaos-hero

I don't have a link so I will say then I may be wrong about them not being labeled has action. Do you have a link to prove me wrong? Becuase I thought I did read somewhere that all fighters are labeled action games in Japan.

Lol, you can make way more playing real figthers in Japan. Shockingly, Smash isn't on the list of fighters here.
poster

Link? Does that make Smash any less deep? Anyway, no one cares if you don't play it competitivly.

[QUOTE="Cute_Red_Panda"]

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?

HarlockJC

You know I find that a funny thing to say. Due to the fact Napco has stated they are closing many arcades in Japan due to success of the Wii.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GOlGIf__fZ0

This is a video I took of Tekken 6 in Taito in Shibuya. I live 10 mins from here and it's ALWAYS packed for Tekken 6.

I'm also a hardcore fighter...dood. Hey, there is a tournament next week called Final Round XI I'll be at that will have all the major fighters there. You should come...You dream about Evos, I know the people who wins them...dood. Final Round is the warm tournament just before EVO by the way. I think you really should come, it's great.

poster

Am I missing something or is Brawl on the list of games being played there?

http://www.finalround.org/final_round_infopg1.html

Anyway, I don't care, the best Smash players are Americans anyway.

[QUOTE="Cute_Red_Panda"]

Yeah, Taito is holding the Test run for SFIV. Tell me, in person does SFIV looks good? Didn't they also have a Tekken 6 tournament recently?

kaos-hero

LOL. I'm hoping SFIV hits SBO in time. I didn't know they still have KoF fans in Japan? j/k...Seriously, I'm actually intrigue to get it.

Meh, it'll never be a real fighter. But that's not to say I don't like it. :D

The hardcore fighter community has never considered it as traditional and it's not as big a staple in competitions such as EVO. It's a great game in its own right but it has no place up there with the big fighters like CvS, MvC, and 3S. Even the guilty gear series and arcana heart get more recognition than smash in 2d fighter tourneys.

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="Japanese_Monk"]

Not really "innovation".

Other games might have done something similar before, but it is a good game. A very good game.

htekemerald

I have heard from other people that other games have done it before. But darn it if I have not seen a format like SSB before the first one came out.

The score not the GOTY part. I stole the sign. I don't normally hype any game for GOTY. But I am not good with photo shop so there you go. I just wanted to show the sign off a little I have always loved SSB. Back when I owned a Comic and Gaming store I use to run $50 cash price tournaments every Friday. I always got a larger turn out for SSB and Mario Kart tournaments than Halo.

it is a fighter, just one that does not require skill and Nintendo will agree with this statement, they're all about opening the doors to casuals and keeping them in, and SSBB is a casual fighter, there's no quatercircle forward moves or DQCF FP specials or nothing like that, theres the punch/kick button, the "pick up/throw/use item" button and the grab button, thats pretty much all there is to it

it's a incredibally fun game and can be very addicting but theres nothing overly complex about it, it's a fighter that can be enjoyed by everyone so I don't see anything wrong with it

-theCHUD-

The small number of buttons is what makes the game so great. FYI the buttons are actually physical attack, special attack, grab and block. And yet from these four buttons there is a huge amount of depth created. Smash doesn't need complicated crap like quartercircle forward moves to be deep. The competition is based around strategy and reflexes, rather than how well you can memorize and pull off ridiculous button combinations. All those overblown combos you have in traditional fighters are just there to articificially increase the depth because it's not as strategic as Smash Bros.

It's a bit like playing Starcraft online and discovering that all the menu options look the same so you have to memorize what each one does.

[QUOTE="poster"]

I'm also a hardcore fighter...dood. Hey, there is a tournament next week called Final Round XI I'll be at that will have all the major fighters there. You should come...You dream about Evos, I know the people who wins them...dood. Final Round is the warm tournament just before EVO by the way. I think you really should come, it's great.

Stabby2486

Am I missing something or is Brawl on the list of games being played there?

http://www.finalround.org/final_round_infopg1.html

Anyway, I don't care, the best Smash players are Americans anyway.

You don't even know what you're arguing about. I never said Smash wasn't deep. It was you coming in here naming off Smash players as the God-O-mighty people can only say what's what. Seriously, Smash players don't even get half the respect as other fighters champions get. That and Guilty Gear...The best Smash are Americans because Americans are the only one who holds it as a fighter...

The fighting arcades are the most used thought. Smash had nothing to do with the closing, if you've ever been to Japan you'll see the largest packed things are always the arcades for fighters. Nothing else sells.

There was also as story in the paper saying they might just make dedicated fighting arcades and take out the crap.

This is a video I took of Tekken 6 in Taito in Shibuya. I live 10 mins from here and it's ALWAYS packed for Tekken 6.

kaos-hero

This is what I was talking about:

In a shock downward revision to its earnings outlook, toy and amusement arcade firm Namco Bandai Holdings (7832.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said it would close between 50 and 60, or roughly one-fifth of its arcades, causing its shares to plummet for a second consecutive session on Thursday.

"A lot of the types of games that people played at an arcade can now be done at home," company spokesman Yuji Machida said.

The Wii, which has gained worldwide popularity, offers an innovative motion-sensing controller that can be swung like a bat or sword. The addition of "Wii Fit", which features a pressure sensing board that players can use to simulate ski jumps or surfing, has also propelled sales.

[QUOTE="kaos-hero"]

The fighting arcades are the most used thought. Smash had nothing to do with the closing, if you've ever been to Japan you'll see the largest packed things are always the arcades for fighters. Nothing else sells.

There was also as story in the paper saying they might just make dedicated fighting arcades and take out the crap.

This is a video I took of Tekken 6 in Taito in Shibuya. I live 10 mins from here and it's ALWAYS packed for Tekken 6.

HarlockJC

This is what I was talking about:

In a shock downward revision to its earnings outlook, toy and amusement arcade firm Namco Bandai Holdings (7832.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said it would close between 50 and 60, or roughly one-fifth of its arcades, causing its shares to plummet for a second consecutive session on Thursday.

"A lot of the types of games that people played at an arcade can now be done at home," company spokesman Yuji Machida said.

The Wii, which has gained worldwide popularity, offers an innovative motion-sensing controller that can be swung like a bat or sword. The addition of "Wii Fit", which features a pressure sensing board that players can use to simulate ski jumps or surfing, has also propelled sales.

Arcades have been closing for while now, the Wiis release really has nothing at all to do with it. It's been going on since the early 90s.

[QUOTE="kaos-hero"]

The fighting arcades are the most used thought. Smash had nothing to do with the closing, if you've ever been to Japan you'll see the largest packed things are always the arcades for fighters. Nothing else sells.

There was also as story in the paper saying they might just make dedicated fighting arcades and take out the crap.

This is a video I took of Tekken 6 in Taito in Shibuya. I live 10 mins from here and it's ALWAYS packed for Tekken 6.

HarlockJC

This is what I was talking about:

In a shock downward revision to its earnings outlook, toy and amusement arcade firm Namco Bandai Holdings (7832.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said it would close between 50 and 60, or roughly one-fifth of its arcades, causing its shares to plummet for a second consecutive session on Thursday.

"A lot of the types of games that people played at an arcade can now be done at home," company spokesman Yuji Machida said.

The Wii, which has gained worldwide popularity, offers an innovative motion-sensing controller that can be swung like a bat or sword. The addition of "Wii Fit", which features a pressure sensing board that players can use to simulate ski jumps or surfing, has also propelled sales.

Seems more a speculation not causation.

Seriously who the F**** really cares if a game is a fighter, patforemer or whatever, as long as it's fun and looks good I can wipe my ass with the label.
nintendog66

Quoted for truth, as they say. This arguement is so old and stale, and it always ends the same. Cant we all just leave well enough alone and play the friggin game?

You don't even know what you're arguing about. I never said Smash wasn't deep. It was you coming in here naming off Smash players as the God-O-mighty people can only say what's what. Seriously, Smash players don't even get half the respect as other fighters champions get. That and Guilty Gear...The best Smash are Americans because Americans are the only one who holds it as a fighter...

poster

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades. Have you've been to Game-Newton?poster

O rly? We don't care how much you respect our pros or what games you play or what you consider a figher. We consider Smash as a fighter, a deep one, and MLG and Evo hold it as one and we don't care if you don't.

[QUOTE="poster"]

You don't even know what you're arguing about. I never said Smash wasn't deep. It was you coming in here naming off Smash players as the God-O-mighty people can only say what's what. Seriously, Smash players don't even get half the respect as other fighters champions get. That and Guilty Gear...The best Smash are Americans because Americans are the only one who holds it as a fighter...

Stabby2486

Yeah, that's why their not that many Smash tournaments in Japan. Over there, the real fighters are in the Arcades.Have you've been to Game-Newton?poster

O rly? We don't care how much you respect our pros or what games you play or what you consider a figher. We consider Smash as a fighter, a deep one, and MLG and Evo hold it as one and we don't care if you don't.

1) Smash is a fighter

2) Smash does have a Metagame

3) Smash metagame isn't as deep as VF, SF3, MVC2, or Guilty gear

4) EVO is not the measuring stick of what is deep, hence, why Japanese people come over here show us the ropes at each EVO, except for Smash, because Americans only play that...

Whats really annoying to me, more then anything else, is that Nintendo fans always defend Nintendo games by saying "but they are fun."

Guess what? I dont think Smash Bros. is fun. I dont care if you call it a fighter or a party game, or a fighting party game, I still dont like the Smash Bros. series. Thats my opinion, and I have that veiw because the series has nothing of what I look for in a game. I look for challenging, thought provoking gameplay, and engaging story, and something that provides and ongoing experiance, not a set format that has you preform the same gameplay within similar areas.

I'm not saying SB is a bad game, just that you can't just say, in the way Nintendo fans defend all Nintendo games, "well its fun".

Because alot of people dont think so.

And if your not offering new ideas. or cutting edge graphics, or an intresting story, or anything new at all for that matter to gamers, how can you justify that a game is so very great on your opinion that its just fun?

This is just one of the problems Nintendo has now with the very gaming core it helped create. I still have fond memorys of you Nintendo, and you were a part of my childhood, but I dont think your games are fun anymore, and you refuse to grow up and expand with me...

I understand Nintendo wants to make money by selling stuff to kids, and women, and nongamers. But to leave the people that made them who they are today is a tearfull parting.