Why does 360 have such a high fail rate?

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Conjuration

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#1 Conjuration
Member since 2006 • 3562 Posts

Has the problem ever been pin-pointed? I know this rrod stuff isn't just some urban myth, or some kind of PS3 fanboy scare-tactic.
I've seen5 people over the last 3 years have a combined total of 11 360's due to the rrod.

I'm just curious if the problem has ever been shown to be one specific thing?

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hyper_trunkx

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#2 hyper_trunkx
Member since 2004 • 6719 Posts

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=cause+of+red+ring+of+death&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=cause+of+red+ring&gs_rfai=&fp=bcdf8cbbf06dc4f

ur welcome

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Swift_Boss_A

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#3 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts

MS is a software company that's why.

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Conjuration

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#4 Conjuration
Member since 2006 • 3562 Posts

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=cause+of+red+ring+of+death&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=cause+of+red+ring&gs_rfai=&fp=bcdf8cbbf06dc4f

ur welcome

hyper_trunkx

That's just a link to Google? You being a smart-ass or something?

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SecretPolice

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#5 SecretPolice  Online
Member since 2007 • 45758 Posts

Seems rare these days to me. Mine is a early 2006 20 gig that has remained RRoD free to this day.

:P

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G-O-M-J

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#6 G-O-M-J
Member since 2009 • 1520 Posts
Microsoft screwed up
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KHAndAnime

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#7 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts
The cooling in the 360 was poor, causing components to overheat and some vital parts lose contact with each other.
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DoomZaW

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#8 DoomZaW
Member since 2007 • 6475 Posts

Faulty/ cheap cooling system i believe was the greatest cause

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killB_O_T

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#9 killB_O_T
Member since 2008 • 246 Posts

Overheating was the main one blame. It seems to have gotten better with the later generation 360s.

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LOXO7

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#10 LOXO7
Member since 2008 • 5595 Posts

Seems rare these days to me. Mine is a early 2006 20 gig that has remained RRoD free to this day.

:P

SecretPolice

Oh man that's a big step you took right there. Good luck.

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iowastate

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#11 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

The asst. manager at my local Gamestop is on his fifth 360 and he first told me of the solder breakage because it is not protected from the excessive heat.

if the circuit board were protected better that problem could be fixed.

lead free solder did not have the expansion problem but was hazardous so it is no longer available.

When the solder formulae was changed the console remained the same and this problem arose.

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locopatho

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#12 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Poor design/testing?
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Shewgenja

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#13 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

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jhcho2

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#14 jhcho2
Member since 2004 • 5103 Posts

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

Shewgenja

This. Microsoft's continuous complacency is partly due to lemmings not making a big deal out of it just because of the extended 3 year warranty. By lemming's logic, a product has a right to fail if the replacement is free.....or something like that.

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88mphSlayer

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#15 88mphSlayer
Member since 2010 • 3201 Posts

basically to cool chips down you have heat sinks, they're there to pull the heat up and radiate it out... they don't do anything else tho, other than pulling the heat up off the board

to make them effective you have to cool them down - thus cooling down the chip by replacing hot air with cold air

in your average PC, the heat sink has a fan directly attached to it which does much of the work of replacing hot air with cold air

in the 360 there are no fans on the heat sinks, meaning the hot air just sits there getting hotter, instead they placed 2 fans at the rear of the console acting like a "vacuum"... problem is the way the console is designed to vent air out and have intake holes, there's not really much pressure to draw the hot air away

360 no plastic

later on, they added this piece of plastic to try and suck the hot air out

falcon 360

you also notice the dvd drive sits right on top of the CPU, reducing air flow and causing more heat problems when the dvd drive spins up

the other problem if you notice? no intake fans, in order to replace hot air with cold air you need a source for the cold air, which without an intake fan the efficiency is horrible if you're simply relying on the surrounding air to cool the chips down... essentially more than likely, your 360 is using hot air to cool down your hot chips, and due to the tight restrictions on the internal space said intake is even made worse

suffice to say... it's one of those mechanical problems where lots of people can have issues while others have none, it's not a 100% fail all the time kind of deal like some people say, but it's definitely error-prone

Microsoft's solution since the RROD first cropped up was to downsize the chip, ie: launch 360's had a 90nm chip which gets very hot... current 360's have a 45nm chip which doesn't get nearly as hot, hence the issue of not having enough air flow isn't as big of a deal

all of this leads to this possible slim board:

360 slim

there's no longer a chip under the dvd drive, instead both chips are right next to eachother, the heat sink is located near the edge of the console, meaning less restrictions on air flow, and finally a fan on the heat sink, meaning the console will replace hot air with cool air very efficiently... finally the chips themselves are 32nm, meaning they produce very little heat

all in all, if that's the real board then they'll likely have finally fixed the RROD completely

the more you know

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SecretPolice

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#16 SecretPolice  Online
Member since 2007 • 45758 Posts

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

jhcho2

This. Microsoft's continuous complacency is partly due to lemmings not making a big deal out of it just because of the extended 3 year warranty. By lemming's logic, a product has a right to fail if the replacement is free.....or something like that.

Could be though that makes cows look even worse when Sony offered nothing for their fans last gen with the very faulty PS2 except of course.. go out and buy another PS2.

Just Sayin..:P

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SLI_Gamer

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#17 SLI_Gamer
Member since 2010 • 291 Posts

because the cpu and gpu have just a heat think but no additional cooler on the top like ps3. The air just comes out from back cooler.

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m0tl3ysl4y3r

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#18 m0tl3ysl4y3r
Member since 2009 • 269 Posts

Overheating was the main one blame. It seems to have gotten better with the later generation 360s.

killB_O_T

yeah, isn't it because the lack of fans or something?

I will agree the newer ones aren't as bad

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SpiritOfFire117

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#19 SpiritOfFire117
Member since 2009 • 8537 Posts

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

Shewgenja

Mine has been working fine. It's probably my most played system.

Yeah I know. There are crazy people that buy more than one system.

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mariobros1981

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#20 mariobros1981
Member since 2010 • 49 Posts
MS doesnt understand airflow.
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Foxhound_spy

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#21 Foxhound_spy
Member since 2007 • 658 Posts
Because MS is being made by a cheap product. Plus MS already knew from the very beginning about how faulty 36 is but because they were so desperate to enter console race in order to steal video game market share from SONY, so they release it anyway .......... Amen ..........
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Santesyu

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#22 Santesyu
Member since 2008 • 4451 Posts

Does that matter why 360 has a high failure rate the fact is 360's is selling like hotcakes..at my gamestop both ps3s and 360s were out of stock and 360 has a warranty for like 3 years right? OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!!! Just reminded me, I didn't get my warranty when I bought the ps3 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :((((((((((( dang counter person didn't even offer.

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CwlHeddwyn

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#23 CwlHeddwyn
Member since 2005 • 5314 Posts
MS doesnt understand airflow.mariobros1981
they rushed the console out despite hearing about the design flaw. the problem was reduced with each hardware revision, so RROD isnt a major problem anymore, it ceased to be an issue in 2008 after the 3rd revision. but Cows will probly keep bringing it up for the next couple of years or so.
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ktrotter11

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#24 ktrotter11
Member since 2006 • 1140 Posts
Because its High Tech
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iowastate

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#25 iowastate
Member since 2004 • 7922 Posts

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

SecretPolice

This. Microsoft's continuous complacency is partly due to lemmings not making a big deal out of it just because of the extended 3 year warranty. By lemming's logic, a product has a right to fail if the replacement is free.....or something like that.

Could be though that makes cows look even worse when Sony offered nothing for their fans last gen with the very faulty PS2 except of course.. go out and buy another PS2.

Just Sayin..:P

except there were not faults in the ps2 where did you get that notion? I have had my launch PS2 for over 7 years and that is not unusual. the 360 design would be fine if lead solder were still available but since it is not the problem arose was what I mentioned. this is NOT an imagined problem and playstation having a lower failure rate have no relation to the problem.
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masiisam

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#26 masiisam
Member since 2003 • 5723 Posts

Wow..I haven't seen a thread like this in SW for awhile...I wounder if there's a reason for that...

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ermacness

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#27 ermacness
Member since 2005 • 10975 Posts

Seems rare these days to me. Mine is a early 2006 20 gig that has remained RRoD free to this day.

:P

SecretPolice

but in other news, I had bought a 360 in 05, and now I'm on my 4th one. 2 RROD's, bought a new sku with a HDMI port in 07, and that one had a video problem with it last year. So actually, i'm on my 3rd, but the old 360 i had, i sold to a close friend and he stated that it RROD on him as well.

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darthogre

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#28 darthogre
Member since 2006 • 5082 Posts
If I remember correctly the nerds said that the heat generated by the chips melted the sodering or something......this caused the graphics chip or something to losen. This is also the reason why overheating the X360 by putting a towel around it helped some. It would heat up the sodering and when they cooled sometimes the chip would get connected again. It sounded like a bunch of jibersh to me but when I read it, it kind of made sense. Of course this is just one of the many problems they have had with that system. We are not counting harddrive failures, DVD drive failures, ect.... Why was the X360 broken.....basically they rushed it out the door without any quality controls.
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mariokart64fan

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#29 mariokart64fan
Member since 2003 • 20828 Posts

ive probably been victim more then any one here,

i had 4 rrods

1 disc read error problem

2 e74s

and 1 av problem

buying my ninth unit just this month i am facing even more horrror ,

it froze 4 times already since owning it , ,

causing my pd data to become corrupt

and freeze 3 other occasions whilst watching movies/rugrats on zune

yet people claim oh the jaspers are more reliable -i havent tried doing one of my mix cds in the 360 i just got but in my other newest one from 2008 i wasnt able to ,

so i doubt im able to on this one either

jaspers are not more reliable they are overheating they freeze and they probably do not rip all of your music

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dommeus

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#30 dommeus
Member since 2004 • 9433 Posts

Has the problem ever been pin-pointed? I know this rrod stuff isn't just some urban myth, or some kind of PS3 fanboy scare-tactic.
I've seen5 people over the last 3 years have a combined total of 11 360's due to the rrod.

I'm just curious if the problem has ever been shown to be one specific thing?

Conjuration

Poorly made with cheap components presumably.

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Nedemis

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#31 Nedemis
Member since 2002 • 10715 Posts

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Because it's fanbase is so willing to make excuses for it rather than demand a working product.

SecretPolice

This. Microsoft's continuous complacency is partly due to lemmings not making a big deal out of it just because of the extended 3 year warranty. By lemming's logic, a product has a right to fail if the replacement is free.....or something like that.

Could be though that makes cows look even worse when Sony offered nothing for their fans last gen with the very faulty PS2 except of course.. go out and buy another PS2.

Just Sayin..:P

and they did....enough to push that system beyond 140 million units worldwide. Just goes to show how weak the cows' attacks are regarding a faulty system.
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dotWithShoes

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#32 dotWithShoes
Member since 2006 • 5596 Posts
[QUOTE="Foxhound_spy"]Because MS is being made by a cheap product. Plus MS already knew from the very beginning about how faulty 36 is but because they were so desperate to enter console race in order to steal video game market share from SONY, so they release it anyway .......... Amen ..........

Do you even know what you are talking about? MS is being made by a cheap product? MS is the people making it, not whats being made. They were forced to replace the xbox with the 360 due to issues with the hardware on the xbox, not because they wanted to enter the console race.
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Sonicplys

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#33 Sonicplys
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

Its a ploy of M$ to make you to buy 2 or 3 of their consoles to increase sales. M$, you dirty dog, you.

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Nedemis

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#34 Nedemis
Member since 2002 • 10715 Posts
[QUOTE="iowastate"] except there were not faults in the ps2 where did you get that notion? I have had my launch PS2 for over 7 years and that is not unusual. .

First off, DRE was through the roof as well as power problems and controllers not be recognized when plugged in. Secondly, a 7 year old PS2 is hardly a launch system seeing how it came out in 2000. :| Personally, I went through 4 PS2's before calling it quits.
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delta3074

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#35 delta3074
Member since 2007 • 20003 Posts

Has the problem ever been pin-pointed? I know this rrod stuff isn't just some urban myth, or some kind of PS3 fanboy scare-tactic.
I've seen5 people over the last 3 years have a combined total of 11 360's due to the rrod.

I'm just curious if the problem has ever been shown to be one specific thing?

Conjuration
the failure rate is below 5% now, according to squaretrade anyway "Fortunately, SquareTrade found that Xbox 360 quality has improved dramatically since the third quarter of 2008, shortly before the 65nm CPU/GPU "Jasper" model was introduced. Since then, first-year failure rates have plummeted to below the 4 percent the company projected. Looking at 500 units purchased in 2009, SquareTrade found that less than 1 percent had suffered the Red Ring of Death." http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html according to dean takeshi, they did pinpoint the proble, the substrate layer between the GPU and the motherboard was not rated for the temperatures coming from the GPU, and would crack from cyclic heat damage,MS neede time to research new materials, so the problem wasn't fixed with the Falcon models, the Jasper model sports a slightly redesigned motherboard, and not only is the GPU now 65nm, but they solved the problem with the substrate layer.
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SpiritOfFire117

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#36 SpiritOfFire117
Member since 2009 • 8537 Posts

Its a ploy of M$ to make you to buy 2 or 3 of their consoles to increase sales. M$, you dirty dog, you.

Sonicplys

They purposely sabotage their product. Good logic. :roll:

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ChiChiMonKilla

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#37 ChiChiMonKilla
Member since 2007 • 2339 Posts

rushing to market to get a lead on the wii and ps3 with out proper testing

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789shadow

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#38 789shadow
Member since 2006 • 20195 Posts

[QUOTE="Sonicplys"]

Its a ploy of M$ to make you to buy 2 or 3 of their consoles to increase sales. M$, you dirty dog, you.

SpiritOfFire117

They purposely sabotage their product. Good logic. :roll:

I hate to admit this, but it does make some sense. :P

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SpiritOfFire117

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#39 SpiritOfFire117
Member since 2009 • 8537 Posts

[QUOTE="SpiritOfFire117"]

[QUOTE="Sonicplys"]

Its a ploy of M$ to make you to buy 2 or 3 of their consoles to increase sales. M$, you dirty dog, you.

789shadow

They purposely sabotage their product. Good logic. :roll:

I hate to admit this, but it does make some sense. :P

Joke right? I haven't had to buy another system since launch.

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Shattered007

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#40 Shattered007
Member since 2007 • 3139 Posts

ive probably been victim more then any one here,

i had 4 rrods

1 disc read error problem

2 e74s

and 1 av problem

buying my ninth unit just this month i am facing even more horrror ,

it froze 4 times already since owning it , ,

causing my pd data to become corrupt

and freeze 3 other occasions whilst watching movies/rugrats on zune

yet people claim oh the jaspers are more reliable -i havent tried doing one of my mix cds in the 360 i just got but in my other newest one from 2008 i wasnt able to ,

so i doubt im able to on this one either

jaspers are not more reliable they are overheating they freeze and they probably do not rip all of your music

mariokart64fan

Sounds to me like you're doing something wrong.

Just some wild stabs here but:

On carpet:

360 with something on top of it:

Dirty enviorment for 360:

360 in none-breathable enviorment:

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godzillavskong

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#41 godzillavskong
Member since 2007 • 7904 Posts
The cooling in the 360 was poor, causing components to overheat and some vital parts lose contact with each other. KHAndAnime
This. It was rushed to store shelves, obviously without enough testing, therefore we see the results. I hope they do enough research and development with their next console, because they cannot afford to have the same situation with faulty hardware. I think if that were to happen, a lot of Xbox supporters would leave for good. I've went through a couple of Xbox 360s, one was mine, and one was my kids, but I was appeased because they were fixed for free. I just don't want to keep going through something like that.
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KarateeeChop

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#42 KarateeeChop
Member since 2010 • 4666 Posts

so ms can show sony that people would rather buy a second 360 than a ps3 at all :P

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imprezawrx500

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#43 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts
Microsoft screwed upG-O-M-J
it's because last gen they didn't really make the bits nvidia and intel still made it, but this gen they tried making hardware which they don't do much of, plus they rushed it. you only have to look at the internal design to see why the fail. the airflow design is terrible.
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XboximusPrime

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#44 XboximusPrime
Member since 2009 • 5405 Posts

It has to do with the way they designed the Heatsinks and the internals of the console itself. Funny, because last gen XBOX was solid as a rock from what I can tell.

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Suffca

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#45 Suffca
Member since 2008 • 666 Posts

It's because you touch yourself at night.

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Infinite_Access

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#46 Infinite_Access
Member since 2007 • 2483 Posts

so ms can show sony that people would rather buy a second 360 than a ps3 at all :P

KarateeeChop

or they dont want their hundreds of dollars worth of games to go to waste

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Shenmue_Jehuty

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#47 Shenmue_Jehuty
Member since 2007 • 5211 Posts

What I want to know is if they've done anything about it? I love the 360, but I refuse to buy another one because I'm afraid it breaking and MS not giving me compensation.

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I-liek-u

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#48 I-liek-u
Member since 2010 • 64 Posts
over half the people that "get RRoD" are just trolls. it's so rare now.
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04dcarraher

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#49 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23859 Posts
over half the people that "get RRoD" are just trolls. it's so rare now. I-liek-u
Its so rare that over 20% of the newer chipsets still get the RRoD.
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CZVA

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#50 CZVA
Member since 2009 • 1166 Posts

MS is a software company that's why.

Swift_Boss_A

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