Why is it so hard for people to avoid unethical games?

In the wake of increasing unethical practices from the industry such as micro transactions and tact on DLCs, mainstream gaming is becoming more and more corrupt by the day.

I have seen online that gamers showed their disapproval of such practices. Many gamers were not happy with Star Wars Battlefront 2' and Shadow of War's micro-transaction practice, many gamers were not happy with EA shutting down visceral games, many gamers are not happy that some franchises have taken a more multiplayer centralized focus while single player has become a distant after thought.

and yet...you still buy those games.

why? I want to understand how could you be so tempted? I personally have never ever bought a COD game, a Battlefield game, any sports games, completely lost interest in Shadow of War and now Assassins Creed origins (a game I have been anticipating for a long time) has landed on my bargain bin list, ever since 2010 there hasn't been a game I have ever bought day 1. For me its just steam sales or CD key websites.

but some of you keep buying those games, further enabling greedy and corrupt practices that YOU hate, why? why can't you just keep your money in your wallet? I want to understand.

I think people who hang out on gaming forums are a small group of enthusiasts that don't make up the bigger picture. In reality, most people don't care what enthusiasts say and throw their money at anything. The rise of mobile games and unethical f2p practices lead me to believe most people can easily be manipulated and ripped off.

@Ghost120x: Its not just forums, I'm talking youtube, twitter, facebook every social media on the planet. Mainstream gamers are DEFINITELY aware of industry wide unethical practice, there is just no way they aren't, the only people that cross my mind that don't know about it are those who are not that invested in gaming at all, and those individuals can't possibly be driving revenues. I'm positive that there are gamers in these forums that support developers like EA and Activision, I just really want to understand why they give those developers and publishers their hard earned cash.

The masses who buy said crap aren't people who complain about it on forums. Some here claim they dislike it, but purcahse the games anyway sinve they are a "star wars whore" or whatever. I personally will not purchase Battlefront 2 BECAUSE I'm a huge star wars fan, and I'd like to see something GOOD created with it instead. But I wont, since idiot gamers are idiots and will continue giving asshole companies money.

They're a vocal minority. People who are content rarely make a big deal about things, therefore all you see are the people on either side of the spectrum.

Because people still like the games? Shocking, I know. It's kinda like people still buying animal products even though they are treated horrible or people buying clothes made by some children working in toxic gases.

I think what you need to understand is this simple fact:

• X amount of people avoid a game because they decide to boycot it because of certain practices
• The gaming industry keeps growing, there are more and more new players and so Y amount of new players will buy your game, because they are looking for something new and they just don't know any better. They never belonged to the boycotting group anyway. They are completely fresh.

In most cases Y > X

And you can boycot as much as you want, there are more and more new gamers coming every day so you could be 10.000 people that boycot Star Wars Battlefront II, it's simply that in the end it doesn't matter.

They just dont care. Nor do they pay attention to gaming news controversy or participate in this form of gamer activism. And it wont stop them from wanting to play a Lord of the Rings game, a Star Wars game, play a Racing Game features a lineup of their dream cars or play a game with their Sports team. Not hating on them or calling them stupid because it's certainly understandable why they would purchase a game they are interested in. They have no other choice other than to not buy the game and not enjoy anything at all with the game they are looking for. I totally plan on getting one of the games hit by controversy myself, im fully aware of it but it doesnt bother me at all with how I intend to play the product.

With certain practices, sometimes they are just conditioned to the practice and find it the norm based on their gaming background and history. Or they just dont see the wrong in certain practices because they just dont care enough to worry about how it affects them and the game.

Just because a prrson buys the games doesnt mean a person will support the micro transactions. I will be getting Star Wars but i wont buy any MT's. The amount of SW's and LOTR's games are is short supply. That is why some people buy them.

Because of apathy towards said changes, "Just give me the goddamn game".

Core gamers and soccer mom on the street looking for a game little Jimmy might like are two different things.,

Our shitty little opinions on a forum mean very little in the wilderness.

People like us are a vocal minority.

I estimate we have 40,000-50,000 hardcore fanboys who visit video game forums. Maybe a bit more.

The only reason I say this number is because every time we boycott a game, we get 40-50K signatures on those petition sites. That seems to be our effective range.

It’s not enough people to change mega games like Star Wars, cod or whatever, but it is enough to BURY SJW games like Mirrors Edge.

I agree with you 100%

Im refusing to give my money, even if its something like 1$, to greedy or shady or anti-value products for over 7-8 years now

Personal point, if the game has a really good single player aspect and yes lots of loot box or microtransactions, most gamers will buy it just to play single player and not bother with MP or thinking about buying loot box's. Granted, I'm still buying Battlefront 2 just for the single player campaign and I can say I will not buy loot box or bother with the MP unless I feel like it.

As for Shadow of War, I was really piss with WB shoving all the DLC, loot box in the single player and it's why I never bother buying it, despite I really love the first one, I couldn't bare to support WB with that tactic. But however, after watching Angry Joe review Shadow of War, it kinda shed some light what I saw but at the end of the day, I'm just gonna wait for GOTY edition and it looks like I'm not missing much for on the story.

As long as I feel that I’ll be able to enjoy a game without needing to purchase microtransactions then I don’t mind buying the game itself. Personally I never buy microtransactions like loot boxes even in free to play games as I just don’t care to purchase my gaming content like that. I don’t mind dlc though and if I like the content that is being offered then I’ll purchase it.

This is why I always prefer Nintendo. They find the best way to do these things. That includes Amiibo. (Optional crap that you don't need to play the game.) These are the third party games everyone says they're missing out on? lol, you can have it. Every day there's a new "destiny 2 sucks" video on youtube.

I'll be here playing Doom and Skyrim. The safe third-party titles. Everything else this fall is psychological gambling turned into video games.

Speaking of unethical... People who stand in the middle of the isle on the subway... Have you no dignity?

I don't anymore. I Stopped buying games that offer season passes, loot boxes, multi tiered editions, micro transactions, etc. I used to pre-order tons of games, until all this BS became so prevalent. I'll consider buying them when there is a complete edition and they are on sale for $10 or less or used for console games (I used to never buy used games). I'll continue to pre-order and buy day one for games that don't have all this shit. I was quite excited for Shadow of War and AC: Origins but I can be patient. I've never pirated a game before but publishers these days are starting to make it look like a compelling option.

There's plenty of good games that have microtransactions/loot boxes that you don't need to buy to enjoy the game

You can play the game and not buy the MT's? I never do and still can enjoy a game.

To be fair, there are some gameplay elements Nintendo hides behind Amiibos.

I'm sure it's more, since many are like me and don't care about petitions because they never lead anywhere. But I do agree that it's a minority

No, you're doing it wrong. You have to pirate everything like the TC.

Well that would explain a lot. :P

Its pretty simple imo. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY THE MICROTRANSACTIONS. People still want to play Shadow of War. I still do and will. It isn't my job to "save gaming". This is an entertainment hobby just like reading comics and watching film. If these "unethical" (your ethics don't have to be everyone else's) practice reach a boiling point, the mass market will react. I have enough in my life, real issues to deal with that worrying about the "bad practices" of the game industry isnt on the back burner, it hasn't even made it to the stove top yet.

Because there is literally nothing unethical going on in video games.

I can play COD the same way I've always played COD. Grind, prestige, unlock guns, make them out unlock camos, rinse repeat. Now not only can I do that I can earn tokens to unlock extra stuff for free. Stuff people use to have to pay $1.99 or more to have a special camo, or character, or buy map packs to get a certain gun that came with it. Guess what when the new maps drop now that new weapon shows up in the loot boxes for everyone.

All this stuff in the game costs money to put into the game, takes time and they continue support of the game. So yes of course they will gladly take suckers money that want to pay for tokens and loot boxes instead of earning them in game for free.

People can still play many games without having to spend any money on anything extra.

Making and supporting a large scale game costs millions of dollars. Mass majority are playing online. Single player focused games will suffer because of that. If a dev and publish sink 60+ million into making a single player game and it sells sub 6 million copies they are not gonna see the type of return they are hoping for. Just because 6million times $60 a pop equals $360mil doesn't mean thats what the dev and pub get as their return. That is split many times before it gets to the pub, then to dev.

The only thing unethical going on in gaming are the unreasonable expectation of gamer like TC.

That about sums it up, I haven't even looked at the store in Shadow of War and I'm about 75% of the way through. Should really have a look and see if there is any free shit. ;)

@GarGx1: People just ignore basic human facts. Throughout history humans will take a stand when they don't like something ONLY when it reaches a boiling point. The gaming crash after ET shows it. Consumers saw many games they enjoyed in arcades look and play like crap on Atari and pathetic quality control with games as well. They stopped buying en masse. If this situation really gets so bad, it will happen again. As it is now? It isn't this emergency that some posters claim it is. Lighten the fvck up, ya know?

except that people who buy animal products don't get hurt by the product, its the animals that get hurt (very extreme example btw...) Supporting current industrial practices actually affects gamers, because it affects the dev's decision about the quality of the game, gamers are basically shooting themselves in the foot.

Big developers like Activision, EA and Ubisoft get HUGE return in their investments! what on earth are you talking about? Activision for example got over 400% return in their investment from the first black ops, EA has reported to have gained 39% in total profit in 2016 from all their games (Thats over $850 Mlillion), all these big companies make huge truck loads of money as is and can definitely pay developers and staff, they have the resources to afford several failed million dollar budget games, they don't need DLCs and Micro-transactions! Those are not average joes, those are billion dollar companies with ridiculously rich CEOs. The purpose of micro transactions is to play off the addiction of people and children for extra profit, it is a clear cut definition of unethical.

@Dark_sageX: Loot crates are just the nerd rage flavor of the moment because hardcore gamers arent happy unless they are drama whining about something. Gamers in general are hypocritical assholes full of faux outrage. Most talk shit about it until its a game they like then they are pre-ordering the ultimate edition and buying every lootbox and DLC they can afford.

That said, I dont really see microtransactions and dlc as unethical unless its pay2win stuff which you dont really see that much nowadays except in Korean games. Most of this stuff is just cosmetic and you dont have to buy it.

Game devs need income to keep developing and updating their games, especially the competitive games and the AAA games that can cost hundreds of millions to make. I dont see a problem with supporting devs with money if you like a game and want it to stay alive.

You have never bought a CoD, BF or sports game? Thats the bubble mentality that dominates this forum in a nutshell which kinda shows how out of touch you are not the other way around. Not to mention you talk about using CD keys then wonder why devs are doing things to try and supplement their income?

Because I still want to play the game. I just ignore everything related to loot boxes and microtransactions.

This is why they wont go away.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/someone-spent-15000-on-mass-effect-multiplayer-car/1100-6454294/?ftag=GSS-05-10aab8e&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_content=59ef0f2b00bd470008c8083d&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

This is a topic that has been discussed for 10+ years. At this point, DLC, microtransactions and what not, are here to stay. Gaming is now using the movie theater pricing model to cover rising costs and inflation, while still keeping the entry price (MSRP at $60 USD). The DLC and what not, are concession goods that can be crucial to support a game.

Personally, the only pre-order bonus I ever got this gen. Other than getting extremely lucky with finding a discounted new MGSV day one edition; was Destiny 2. A game that is also pretty much a MMO, without the monthly subscription. I almost never get DLC for any game. As I feel fine with the main campaign. And I really only play Destiny 2 online. Still, my purchasing habits are part of a minority. As while I almost never pay more than $30 for a game (usually less). Millions are buying new games at full price all year round. Their purchasing habits though, are also making it possible for me to save money and play games.

@Dark_sageX: First and foremost children shouldn't be buying anything online in games. If they are that is just poor parenting. 2nd weak/dumb people have been getting taken advantage of for centuries, ever hear of the lottery. You're gonna be really hard pressed to tell me anything about microtransactions are addicting or related to gambling the evidence is just not there. Everything you can acquire in microtransactions brings nothing relevant to the game. A lot of the microtransactions and everything going on now was to combat the people that would sit on their computer level up a character then sell that account to the same dumb people for $100's online. Now those people can do that straight from the game.

To sit here and whine about a practice and call them unethical when most games revolve around killing, stealing, whether for good or bad reasons is a bit misguided. Maybe a new hobby is in order ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've bought plenty of DLC, pre ordered games that have pre order bonus, and I've open plenty of loot crates, but with the loot crates I've never spent a dime of real money and no one ever has to. Your restraint and willingness to purchase in game nonsense is not the responsibility of a company it's the responsibility of yourself, or your responsibility to your children.

You literally sound like a crackhead crying, it ain't me, it's just that this crack is so good, I can't help it. Uh yeah you can, it'll be alright

If not being a sucker is being "out of touch" then call me Ebenezer Scrooge and drive me back to my mansion, because I'd rather be out of touch than be played.

Not to mention you talk about using CD keys then wonder why devs are doing things to try and supplement their income?

I could ALSO be pirating their games you know? and then that way they get absolutely nothing from me. But at least with CD keys they can get revenue from me (be it partial). And just so that you don't get things twisted, you should understand that I do it in response to their practices, its not the other way around, if they want me to stop then they should stop first and earn my trust again. For starters, give me a complete game and NOT shave off the rest intentionally and lie to my face about it when confronted with the subject in the media, otherwise do not charge me full price for it, and if you don't want to do that then do not expect me to support you, I think thats a very reasonable demand.

I'm not saying parent's shouldn't take responsibility, but do you think this excuses unethical practice by publishers and developers? they KNOW there are parents out there who don't watch their kids and targets those kids with the sole intention of exploiting their immaturity. You can't tell me that ONLY parents are to blame, you should give developers agency as well.

2nd weak/dumb people have been getting taken advantage of for centuries, ever hear of the lottery. You're gonna be really hard pressed to tell me anything about microtransactions are addicting or related to gambling the evidence is just not there.

Ah, the good ol "Others do it so why can't I do it to" argument, well people have been maimed, raped, crucified, mutilated, humiliated and castrated for centuries as well, guess its OK for devs to do that to?

and paid loot crates IS gambling. The core principle of gambling is that you invest in chance/probability, meaning whatever you invest will not guarantee to give you the out come you want, and when personal currency is being used to initiate this chance/probability then its gambling, even if its in a video game.

Everything you can acquire in microtransactions brings nothing relevant to the game. A lot of the microtransactions and everything going on now was to combat the people that would sit on their computer level up a character then sell that account to the same dumb people for $100's online. Now those people can do that straight from the game.

This is new to me, there are people that BUY accounts? well aside from how pathetic it is, how does selling an account affect the developers exactly? and how is micro-transaction an appropriate response? last I checked people selling accounts doesn't happen so frequently that it warrants this kind of mass response from developers (especially on consoles).

To sit here and whine about a practice and call them unethical when most games revolve around killing, stealing, whether for good or bad reasons is a bit misguided. Maybe a new hobby is in order ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know you think you are being clever but really you are just stringing a bunch of words together and thought you had something of weight to say when its all just hot air...

I've bought plenty of DLC, pre ordered games that have pre order bonus, and I've open plenty of loot crates, but with the loot crates I've never spent a dime of real money and no one ever has to. Your restraint and willingness to purchase in game nonsense is not the responsibility of a company it's the responsibility of yourself, or your responsibility to your children.

But you KNOW that those contents have been intentionally separated and the prices jacked up to an unreasonable amount for additional profit right? because if you did know then perhaps you can answer my original question, which was: "why can't you resist despite being aware of how unethical the practices are?"

You literally sound like a crackhead crying, it ain't me, it's just that this crack is so good, I can't help it. Uh yeah you can, it'll be alright

I think I made it clear that I don't support developers who make these practices and I have specifically said I don't give them the money they demand, so how am I the "crackhead"?

Dear lord....

DLC and Loot Crates are not unethical. Just saying. It's not "pro consumer" to be sure. But unless you were tricked in some way, you bought the product you were willing to buy. Someone could buy a car without a radio (well... you used to be able to), and then buy it as an add-on later. It doesn't make the car an "unethical product" because the radio wasn't included in the initial purchase - no matter how much we consider it as an obvious standard

Unless it really inhibits the way i'm going to play a game, then i'm not really into the "vote with your wallet" thing, as it rarely works. People complained about Shadow of War, but I played and enjoyed it, even without buying the premium lootboxes.

@Dark_sageX:

except that people who buy animal products don't get hurt by the product, its the animals that get hurt (very extreme example btw...) Supporting current industrial practices actually affects gamers, because it affects the dev's decision about the quality of the game, gamers are basically shooting themselves in the foot."

This is something that is just a part of being Human: People must suffer before handing together to enact change. Humans are stubborn and until this situation is a massive hindrance to daily turning on a console and firing up a game, masses will not band together about it. I know some of you swear it is at the tipping point but it's not to many of us. I just don't buy microtransactions. I still enjoy the games I play.

I've spent a bit of money on cosmetics. It's ok and fun. But, I have stayed away from pay 2 win games so far. As long as my favorite games don't go that route than I'm fine.

Loot crates are definitely unethical.

@xxyetixx: I've bought plenty of DLC, pre ordered games that have pre order bonus, and I've open plenty of loot crates, but with the loot crates I've never spent a dime of real money and no one ever has to. Your restraint and willingness to purchase in game nonsense is not the responsibility of a company it's the responsibility of yourself, or your responsibility to your children.

You literally sound like a crackhead crying, it ain't me, it's just that this crack is so good, I can't help it. Uh yeah you can, it'll be alright"

So well said. Reminds me of people that try to sue McDonald's for making them obese. It wasn't old Ronny that ordered the large chocolate shake with your two quarter pounder meals for the last 6 years LOL

Because I am not your fckn robot and you are not a dictator telling me what is "corrupt" or not just because you don't agree with capitalism which is what microtransactions, loot crates..etc in games is all about. If you want to live in an anti-capitalist place, then feel free to move to China, N Korea or Cuba.

Second, it's no one else's business who buys what and for what reason. Ethics and business go together about as much as pancakes and mayonnaise. You might as well debate religion if you're going to complain about how businesses in capitalist countries function. So why do so many gamers publicly complain about buying loot crates? Because those publicly complaining are cheap skates, plain and simple. They can't tolerate to open that wallet yet another time for something they feel should never have been split apart from the game. Those same people also never seem to realize how the business world works at all nor the economy and markets for that matter. Meanwhile they have proven to be very viable and therefore will continue. Ones personal morals on the matter or any other matter is completely separate from the real world.

And finally it should be noted games are one of the few products that has not increased in price over the years. Actually if compensating for inflation, they have gone down. Some games on N64 retailed over $70.00. In 1986 an NES game that retailed for $49.99 Is in todays cost of nearly $100.00.....so I don't think those loot crate prices and DLC's are really a big deal on $60 games do you?

@GameboyTroy: how?

When I see a game that has loot crates/random generated winnings like WWE 2K18 that takes 1000 hours of grinding just to get a moustache or a certain move....

I give up, stop playing and trade the game in.

I STILL play Smackdown Here Comes The Pain almost 15 years later because it is addicting. It has a simple unlock system/Fair cash and XP for gameplay...it is perfectly balanced.

The new games aren’t and the gameplay sucks.

1. Maybe people managed to enjoy the game without buying into any of its "unethical" parts. I bought BraveryDefault yet never spent a penny on any microtransaction stuff it had. I've never spent any real-life cash to acquire loot boxes in Overwatch; anything I got in that game was just through playing it alot.

2. People maybe don't see certain things as "unethical" and view things differently? Maybe as long as the content fro, DLC, microtransaction, pre-order bonus seems like it's worth the asking price, they'll get it, regardless if others feel it shouldn't have a price tag to begin with.

3. People just simply have bad control over themselves, and thus throw money towards things even if they themselves feel the certain practice in hand is bad, because they just want it that badly.

The average person is not very intelligent or don't care much.

I don't see microtransactions as unethical for F2P games, but I do for full-price games. I pay for microtransaction for games like Neverwinter, Dungeons & Dragons Online, as well as Path of Exile. I am happy to do so, because I enjoy those games and wiling to support them financially.

Who's to say what is ethical or not? If people are willing to pay... well.. then they are going to offer the transactions. The bottom line is that the gaming industry (as has pretty much every industry) has become bloated and unsustainable. The only way to keep it afloat in its current state is to do the things that nobody wants (well, at least the vocal minority that try to be white knights). Sad to say, but we actually NEED another video game crash in order to save the industry and to lessen production costs and strip the power from greedy corporate fat fish that are only trying to screw over their customers by overcharging while continuously increasing their bottom line. These microtransactions pretty much pay employee wages and those at the top of the totem pole reap all the benefits.

@Dark_sageX:

If a game is popular then a vast majority will always buy more no matter the circumstances. You being just one person who refuses to buy it in protest - that's just going to screw yourself over instead of the company. Sure microtransactions suck but if it's on a game you love then why not buy it? You can still avoid those microtransactions, anyway. None of that is going to stop you from enjoying the base game and finishing the ending.