Why Mandatory Install All of a Sudden?

Hard to say. The funny thing is that devs actually have the option whether or not to make it mandatory at all times. If they wanted to, they could make it optional and they should start doing that. Certain games like mgs4, I want it to run fluid like with the install but does anyone really care if its not on dmc4 or hotshots golf. I understand that it does help things in the long run so it does have its pros but it would be so-much-smarter to make it optional instead. Im willing to bet thats its mostly lazy devs. Mostly that is....

Eh, guess you could always choose 1 of the 3 paths to avoid/resolve the problem though. Whatever, out.

Blu ray, it's the trojan horse within the trojan horse within the trojan horse.

Lazy Devs. Before DMC4 did this games where fine without installs, Uncharted didnt have any loading and you didnt need to install anything.EVOLV3

It isn't lazy devs. Before the install came along many MP's looked/played much worse on the PS3 and complicated methods like spamming cloned data to the disc were needed to avoid the long load times and stuttering streaming.

Blame Sony for delaying the console to make it a movie player and forcing the next format on people before the consumer market or technology was truely ready for it.

some launch titles also had an install like resistance. it was very small though. ridge racer 7 also had an optional install.

the big reason for it though is because the blu-ray drive is too slow. its a bad drive for gaming (lovely movie drive though...even upscales DVDs very nicely). it can read data at a fine rate (its as good as the 360s and in some cases even better) but its seek time is far far inferior due to it only being a 2X drive. a game like GTA4 just wouldnt be feasilble on the PS3 without an install. the amount of texture pop in would be massive and i wouldnt be surprised if the game actually had to stop from time to time while the blu-ray drive caught up. same with oblivion....which installs itself completly to the HDD.

however theres is also an element of developer laziness in its defense (though nto for all games...rockstar certinaly couldnt be accused of being lazy, nor could bethesda or kojimas team). this doesent apply to all games but some games clearly dont need an install and having them is taking the piss. EG DMC4. uncharted has ably demonstrated that clever use of caching can cover up loading screens quite nicely for very linear games and DMC4 certainly falls into that category. i would be very surprised if the full version of gran turismo also needs a big install to play....a racing game is not demanding on the disc drive.

but yeah...alot of it is down to sonys decision to stick a blu-ray drive in there and demand that devs use it. that extra storage and HD movie playback has come at a cost with the drives performance. its fine for very focused, linear games like uncharted or gears (though caching would be necessary to keep loading screens out almost completly). but for an open game like oblivion or GTA4 or something like that...its rubbish.

The load times would be double what they are with install if there wasn't one.

The PS3s Bluray drive reads discs at 9MB per second.

In comparison, Xbox 360 reads discs at 16MB per second.

Thats why the PS3 needs an install of critical game components before gameplay.

Some devs use "padding" to reduce load times. It's kinda the same thing, only the dev duplicates critical data on the outsides of the disc to reduce load times. Big files are kept near the outside of the disc. So the 5GB install or an extra 5GB of duplicated data on the Bluray Disc.

The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?blazer224

I agree. I've questioned that as well. For the first 6-8 months there were really no large mandatory installs for PS3 games. Sure, there was some content that got installed, but most of it was under 500MB in size. Now every Capcom game released for the PS3 has a mandatory 3 - 4GB install. Even MGS4 is going to have a mandatory install I heard. WTH!!!

This really needs to change. I don't want to have to uninstall PS3 multiple PS3 games just to be able to play a new game. That would be dumb and this isn't a PC.

******************************************************

Because console gaming is slowly becoming PC gaming.supercubedude64

Right.. and PC gaming is slowly dying because of it. :lol:

My guess is that developers want their games to have little or no load times and would rather have no in game freezing or pop up, installations can stop that, I think.ONLYDOD

See this just debunk the saying "teh lazy devs". If they want little to no load times at all these devs works harder on the PS3 version.

[QUOTE="blazer224"]The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?blackace

I agree. I've questioned that as well. For the first 6-8 months there were really no large mandatory installs for PS3 games. Sure, there was some content that got installed, but most of it was under 500MB in size. Now every Capcom game released for the PS3 has a mandatory 3 - 4GB install. Even MGS4 is going to have a mandatory install I heard. WTH!!!

This really needs to change. I don't want to have to uninstall PS3 multiple PS3 games just to be able to play a new game. That would be dumb and this isn't a PC.

******************************************************

Because console gaming is slowly becoming PC gaming.supercubedude64

Right.. and PC gaming is slowly dying because of it. :lol:

you install data before every act in mgs4

[QUOTE="blackace"]

[QUOTE="blazer224"]The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?blackice1983

I agree. I've questioned that as well. For the first 6-8 months there were really no large mandatory installs for PS3 games. Sure, there was some content that got installed, but most of it was under 500MB in size. Now every Capcom game released for the PS3 has a mandatory 3 - 4GB install. Even MGS4 is going to have a mandatory install I heard. WTH!!!

This really needs to change. I don't want to have to uninstall PS3 multiple PS3 games just to be able to play a new game. That would be dumb and this isn't a PC.

******************************************************

Because console gaming is slowly becoming PC gaming.supercubedude64

Right.. and PC gaming is slowly dying because of it. :lol:

you install data before every act in mgs4

why is every one of your posts a bash on sony in some way or form.

[QUOTE="blackice1983"][QUOTE="blackace"]

[QUOTE="blazer224"]The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?LastOfTheBest

I agree. I've questioned that as well. For the first 6-8 months there were really no large mandatory installs for PS3 games. Sure, there was some content that got installed, but most of it was under 500MB in size. Now every Capcom game released for the PS3 has a mandatory 3 - 4GB install. Even MGS4 is going to have a mandatory install I heard. WTH!!!

This really needs to change. I don't want to have to uninstall PS3 multiple PS3 games just to be able to play a new game. That would be dumb and this isn't a PC.

******************************************************

Because console gaming is slowly becoming PC gaming.supercubedude64

Right.. and PC gaming is slowly dying because of it. :lol:

you install data before every act in mgs4

why is every one of your posts a bash on sony in some way or form.

[QUOTE="blackice1983"][QUOTE="blackace"]

[QUOTE="blazer224"]The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?LastOfTheBest

I agree. I've questioned that as well. For the first 6-8 months there were really no large mandatory installs for PS3 games. Sure, there was some content that got installed, but most of it was under 500MB in size. Now every Capcom game released for the PS3 has a mandatory 3 - 4GB install. Even MGS4 is going to have a mandatory install I heard. WTH!!!

This really needs to change. I don't want to have to uninstall PS3 multiple PS3 games just to be able to play a new game. That would be dumb and this isn't a PC.

******************************************************

Because console gaming is slowly becoming PC gaming.supercubedude64

Right.. and PC gaming is slowly dying because of it. :lol:

you install data before every act in mgs4

why is every one of your posts a bash on sony in some way or form.

how was that a bash

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]Lazy Devs. Before DMC4 did this games where fine without installs, Uncharted didnt have any loading and you didnt need to install anything.Stonin

It isn't lazy devs. Before the install came along many MP's looked/played much worse on the PS3 and complicated methods like spamming cloned data to the disc were needed to avoid the long load times and stuttering streaming.

Blame Sony for delaying the console to make it a movie player and forcing the next format on people before the consumer market or technology was truely ready for it.

I also have too chock it up too the lazy devs, the ps3 has complicated architecture no doubt.

But also uncharted had zero install and load times and its still the best looking console game.

[QUOTE="Stonin"]

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]Lazy Devs. Before DMC4 did this games where fine without installs, Uncharted didnt have any loading and you didnt need to install anything.LastOfTheBest

It isn't lazy devs. Before the install came along many MP's looked/played much worse on the PS3 and complicated methods like spamming cloned data to the disc were needed to avoid the long load times and stuttering streaming.

Blame Sony for delaying the console to make it a movie player and forcing the next format on people before the consumer market or technology was truely ready for it.

I also have too chock it up too the lazy devs, the ps3 has complicated architecture no doubt.

But also uncharted had zero install and load times and its still the best looking console game.

lol uncharted best looking game. no

[QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"][QUOTE="Stonin"]

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]Lazy Devs. Before DMC4 did this games where fine without installs, Uncharted didnt have any loading and you didnt need to install anything.blackice1983

It isn't lazy devs. Before the install came along many MP's looked/played much worse on the PS3 and complicated methods like spamming cloned data to the disc were needed to avoid the long load times and stuttering streaming.

Blame Sony for delaying the console to make it a movie player and forcing the next format on people before the consumer market or technology was truely ready for it.

I also have too chock it up too the lazy devs, the ps3 has complicated architecture no doubt.

But also uncharted had zero install and load times and its still the best looking console game.

lol uncharted best looking game. no

yes /thread

I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.AmyMizuno

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.LastOfTheBest

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

lol you take things way to serious

[QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.blackice1983

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

lol you take things way to serious

I just want the ps3 too thrive, the ps2 was one of my favorite gaming consoles ever, had a wide range of titles and was very consumer friendly.

Im a sony fan, I never liked microsoft, but that doesn't mean I outright hate them.

some evils are neccesary for pc gaming, such a windows :P

[QUOTE="blackice1983"][QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.LastOfTheBest

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

lol you take things way to serious

I just want the ps3 too thrive, the ps2 was one of my favorite gaming consoles ever, had a wide range of titles and was very consumer friendly.

Im a sony fan, I never liked microsoft, but that doesn't mean I outright hate them.

some evils are neccesary for pc gaming, such a windows :P

snes is the best system ever made but that doesnt mean i go around praising the wii and talking down on other console all day.

lol blind fanboys

[QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.AmyMizuno

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

Other then running out of space I agree. But then again it would be kind of annoying to bring a game over a friends house and have to install it before even playing.

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.Blackbond

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

Other then running out of space I agree. But then again it would be kind of annoying to bring a game over a friends house and have to install it before even playing.

The only thing I have too say about mgs4 is its not really for those with short attention spans, so I guess the installs don't hurt lol.

seriously, mgs is one of those types of series that's meant too be savored, although I still don't like this whole mandatory install thing.

[QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"][QUOTE="blackice1983"][QUOTE="LastOfTheBest"]

[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"]I think that level meshes are becoming bigger and must first be cached into the hard drive in order to be streamed appropriately. This shortens the load times considerably. Besides, 360 also has mandatory installations. It's just called cacheing and it does it in the background.blackice1983

I just hope devs figure a way around this with the ps3's complex architecture.

its still very early in the life of the ps3 with almost 3 years on the 360, time will tell.

But still, I hope they can some how fix this or make it less apparent.

if games on the ps3 are getting this large, I can only see how doomed the 360 is, no hdd.

lol you take things way to serious

I just want the ps3 too thrive, the ps2 was one of my favorite gaming consoles ever, had a wide range of titles and was very consumer friendly.

Im a sony fan, I never liked microsoft, but that doesn't mean I outright hate them.

some evils are neccesary for pc gaming, such a windows :P

snes is the best system ever made but that doesnt mean i go around praising the wii and talking down on other console all day.

lol blind fanboys

And I loved my snes, i played that when I was like 6 and its one of my favorite systems ever, same with ps1 and ps2.

I also have a wii, I just wish they would stop making shovel ware for it and get back to the real games.

IMO wii fit does not count.

And I loved my snes, i played that when I was like 6 and its one of my favorite systems ever, same with ps1 and ps2.

I also have a wii, I just wish they would stop making shovel ware for it and get back to the real games.

IMO wii fit does not count.

aslong as they keep making zelda,mario and metroid games im all good

blackice1983

And I loved my snes, i played that when I was like 6 and its one of my favorite systems ever, same with ps1 and ps2.

I also have a wii, I just wish they would stop making shovel ware for it and get back to the real games.

IMO wii fit does not count.

aslong as they keep making zelda,mario and metroid games im all good

true that.

The last metroid game was really fun, but i wish they would make a return too a 3rd person view action adventure type

actually i wouldnt really mind a first person one again.

*ranting* *goes off too play sigma*

The ps3 has been out for what, a year and a half now, and only recently, it seems like every game requires a mandatory install. We havent had to do this before, why now all of a sudden?blazer224

Installs arent anything new. PC gamers have done it forever with many of the same games that are on the consoles and its not because their hardware is worse or their DVD drive its slow, its just because the game preforms better uploading from the HDD rather then the Disk.

The reason that consoles are getting it now is becoming they are coming with HDD and the PS3 gets it because HDDs are standard. Dont fool yourself into thinking it wouldnt be the same situation if the 360 had a standard HDD.