Why Nintendo is doing a disservice to hardcore gamers...

To start I owned the 360 before getting the wii. Nonetheless, I was still pumped for Nintendo's "revolutionary" system. Don't get me wrong, the console is fun, but not nearly as fun as it is made out to be and it gets tremendously boring.Dr_DudeMan

You are your entitled to your opinion, but don't confuse it for fact.

I used to defend the wii on these forums and now I feel like a sheep for being a blind fool.

Ever think that your being a "blind fool" has nothing to do with consoles at all?  I mean...you are judging a console based on only 3 months of time out of a potential 5 years.

For any hardcore gamer with a nice tv and surround sound system rig, the wii is aweful.

Don't confuse being rish and/or spoiled with being a hardcore gamer.  Being a hardcore gamer has NOTHING to do with what kind of TV or sound system you have.  If you think it does you need to think again.

Not only is the sound horrendous, but it looks worse in HD then in SD in most cases. I find myself having way more fun playing my 360 in full hd and 7.1 digital optical surround sound.

What does being a graphics whore have to do with being a "hardcore gamer"?

With the wii, I felt like I was back at the beginning of last gen, which resulted in it collecting dust as I continued to play my 360.

Right...because last gen sucked and had nothing worth playing.

About 3 months after getting it I traded my wii for a PS3.

Spoken like a true hardcore gamer...sold a console you only had for three months thinking it would never have any games worth your time.

Honestly, I am extremely glad I did. Nintendo games just don't have the longetivity that xbox live and PSN bring to games.

And hardcore gamers ONLY care about FPSers.

Finally, the reason I say that Nintendo did a disservice to the hardcore gamer, is because we want to be wowed by our games and stay addicted,

No...hardcore gamers want to play great games of all varieties.  Hardcore gamers want to be wowed but it isn't about graphics so much as quality and originality and fun. The kind of "wow" that you refer to is EXACTLY what most casuals and posers look for...pretty graphics and showing off.

 where as kids and casuals want to flail their arms around like idiots for a couple hours instead of just going outside and playing sports, etc.

This coming from the guy who wants to shoot people online? 

I have been gaming for over 20 years, and I LOVE zelda and I could not even finish Twilight Princess.

 It was frustratingly easy, and actually looked worse in HD then in SD. Sorry Nintendo but that is not what I, and most tech savy folk are looking for.

This explains a lot.  You think being a hardcore GAMER and being a hardcore techie are one and the same.  They aren't.  You are not a hardcore gamer.  You clearly don't care about games...only gadgets.  To you a console isn't about games but about owning some new peice of technology and that means you only want to show it off and inflate your own self esteem by owning new technology.  You are no gamer, sir, any more than someone who rushes out to buy every new model of i-pod is a hardcore gamer.

Congrats on getting back to the top and bringing more gamers in, but next time don't leave all of us hardcore adult gamers (and no I am not asking for mature games, I am asking for more challenging games with more longetivity) out in the cold.

While I am inclined to agree with you about the difficulty being too easy...I couldn't help buy note you make absolutely zero comments on the quality or fun of games and constantly come back to online and graphics.

Edit:  What peeved me off at the start was that Nintendo put a wireless card in the wii that costs nearly $100 whereas they could have put a $10 LAN port in and used the remainder of the money towards hardware.  I am sure that the wii could have been a nice little 720p console with amazing visuals had they done this, and in doing this they also alienate all the casuals who do not have wireless.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]You Sheep act like such babies when anybody has any opinions on your WII.  Everytime someone has legimate point you guys all start crying and start saying "oh but this, and oh but that", and then you start bashing because certain people don't like the Wii.  Who cares, you like it so go play it, don't sit here and cry and try to convience somebody to like something when they give two rat's a$$'s about it honestly.  Your just wasting your breath.frankeyser

everyone else cries when their system gets bashed.  why should the sheep not get to?

[QUOTE="Dr_DudeMan"]To start I owned the 360 before getting the wii. Nonetheless, I was still pumped for Nintendo's "revolutionary" system. Don't get me wrong, the console is fun, but not nearly as fun as it is made out to be and it gets tremendously boring.ZIMdoom

You are your entitled to your opinion, but don't confuse it for fact.

I used to defend the wii on these forums and now I feel like a sheep for being a blind fool.

Ever think that your being a "blind fool" has nothing to do with consoles at all?  I mean...you are judging a console based on only 3 months of time out of a potential 5 years.

For any hardcore gamer with a nice tv and surround sound system rig, the wii is aweful.

Don't confuse being rish and/or spoiled with being a hardcore gamer.  Being a hardcore gamer has NOTHING to do with what kind of TV or sound system you have.  If you think it does you need to think again.

Not only is the sound horrendous, but it looks worse in HD then in SD in most cases. I find myself having way more fun playing my 360 in full hd and 7.1 digital optical surround sound.

What does being a graphics whore have to do with being a "hardcore gamer"?

With the wii, I felt like I was back at the beginning of last gen, which resulted in it collecting dust as I continued to play my 360.

Right...because last gen sucked and had nothing worth playing.

About 3 months after getting it I traded my wii for a PS3.

Spoken like a true hardcore gamer...sold a console you only had for three months thinking it would never have any games worth your time.

Honestly, I am extremely glad I did. Nintendo games just don't have the longetivity that xbox live and PSN bring to games.

And hardcore gamers ONLY care about FPSers.

Finally, the reason I say that Nintendo did a disservice to the hardcore gamer, is because we want to be wowed by our games and stay addicted,

No...hardcore gamers want to play great games of all varieties.  Hardcore gamers want to be wowed but it isn't about graphics so much as quality and originality and fun. The kind of "wow" that you refer to is EXACTLY what most casuals and posers look for...pretty graphics and showing off.

 where as kids and casuals want to flail their arms around like idiots for a couple hours instead of just going outside and playing sports, etc.

This coming from the guy who wants to shoot people online? 

I have been gaming for over 20 years, and I LOVE zelda and I could not even finish Twilight Princess.

 It was frustratingly easy, and actually looked worse in HD then in SD. Sorry Nintendo but that is not what I, and most tech savy folk are looking for.

This explains a lot.  You think being a hardcore GAMER and being a hardcore techie are one and the same.  They aren't.  You are not a hardcore gamer.  You clearly don't care about games...only gadgets.  To you a console isn't about games but about owning some new peice of technology and that means you only want to show it off and inflate your own self esteem by owning new technology.  You are no gamer, sir, any more than someone who rushes out to buy every new model of i-pod is a hardcore gamer.

Congrats on getting back to the top and bringing more gamers in, but next time don't leave all of us hardcore adult gamers (and no I am not asking for mature games, I am asking for more challenging games with more longetivity) out in the cold.

While I am inclined to agree with you about the difficulty being too easy...I couldn't help buy note you make absolutely zero comments on the quality or fun of games and constantly come back to online and graphics.

Edit:  What peeved me off at the start was that Nintendo put a wireless card in the wii that costs nearly $100 whereas they could have put a $10 LAN port in and used the remainder of the money towards hardware.  I am sure that the wii could have been a nice little 720p console with amazing visuals had they done this, and in doing this they also alienate all the casuals who do not have wireless.

[QUOTE="frankeyser"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]You Sheep act like such babies when anybody has any opinions on your WII.  Everytime someone has legimate point you guys all start crying and start saying "oh but this, and oh but that", and then you start bashing because certain people don't like the Wii.  Who cares, you like it so go play it, don't sit here and cry and try to convience somebody to like something when they give two rat's a$$'s about it honestly.  Your just wasting your breath.xscrapzx

everyone else cries when their system gets bashed.  why should the sheep not get to?

I'm a hardcore gamer,and I don't feel like Nintendo is doing a disservice to me.VGobbsesser

:roll: more threads about nintend and wii...

give it a rest comon you should be playing 3 60 games than compaing about wii games grapchis

god fahter looks like and xbox game

POST of the YEAR. You should have started a thread with this one. It gets to the heart of gaming and consumer values. I would put it in my sig if it wasnt so long.  BRAVO!!!!11111!one!111!TSCombo

It was my first thread *wipes eyes*, I couldn't summon the urge to go searching through my posting history to find the link.

[QUOTE="Dr_DudeMan"]They also don't have much visual appeal because all but Nintendo's first party art is bland and limited by weak hardware.
YellowPik

Wait, what? :?

Counterpoint number two, yes yet another cut and paste job but I am too tired to address your specific posts.

The 'RPG Theory'

As I browse through the topics here on System Wars I see one sustained attack on the credibility of the Wii, that is the graphics argument and the attack on the technical specifications of the console in general. I was pondering what it really means for something to be 'cutting-edge' or 'advanced' when a thought dawned upon me: technology never truly progresses.

You may be questioning the significance of the title, after all this topic has nothing to do with RPGs as such, however since this is a gaming forum I thought that an analogy directly relating to games would be the best way to orchestrate my points. As I run through my argument keep the phrase 'technology never truly progresses' in the back of your mind and relate it to each point.

Firstly what are the core gameplay elements of an RPG:

- In most RPGs the main goal regardless of story is to 'level-up', to become stronger as you progress. Shigeru Miyamoto once likened it to being bound by chains/ropes that slowly loosen as you advance into the game. In this respect technology is very similar, as we progress through time the technology becomes more powerful, more advanced and more complex.

-Now consider your position as a character in an RPG in relation to your enemies. You start the game as a weakling with few abilities and attacks, however your enemies are also weak allowing you to defeat them. As you progress you 'level-up', become stronger, learn new attacks, gain new abilities and so forth. Here is the problem: as you become stronger so too do your enemies. This effectively leaves you in the same position as you were at the start, both you and your enemies are of similar strength. It is this false sense of progression evident in RPGs that also manifests itself in technology.

You see, as the capacity of our technology increases so do the demands upon it in addition to the consumer expectations. This is why we still have the same problems of slowdown, pop-up, glitches and 3D 'clipping' to name a few. So whilst hardware may be more powerful, its ability to rectify the recurrent problems is negated due to the additional demands of the software. Just like an RPG we have progression matched equally by the threats to the progression leaving us in the same position we have always been. That is why graphical advancement through technological means is but a transient and short-lived feat, it is through art that graphics can remain on the 'cutting-edge' forever, as great art only becomes better with age; like a fine wine or a stunning composition.

To start I owned the 360 before getting the wii. Nonetheless, I was still pumped for Nintendo's "revolutionary" system. Don't get me wrong, the console is fun, but not nearly as fun as it is made out to be and it gets tremendously boring.

I used to defend the wii on these forums and now I feel like a sheep for being a blind fool. For any hardcore gamer with a nice tv and surround sound system rig, the wii is aweful.  Not only is the sound horrendous, but it looks worse in HD then in SD in most cases. I find myself having way more fun playing my 360 in full hd and 7.1 digital optical surround sound. With the wii, I felt like I was back at the beginning of last gen, which resulted in it collecting dust as I continued to play my 360. About 3 months after getting it I traded my wii for a PS3.

Honestly, I am extremely glad I did. Nintendo games just don't have the longetivity that xbox live and PSN bring to games. They also don't have much visual appeal because all but Nintendo's first party art (to those color lovers, art doesn't necessarily mean painting a game in a rainbow) is bland and limited by weak hardware. I don't care if casuals and kids are dumb enough to buy the wii, and if the wii wins because of this, the 360 and even ps3 are still better consoles.

Finally, the reason I say that Nintendo did a disservice to the hardcore gamer, is because we want to be wowed by our games and stay addicted, where as kids and casuals want to flail their arms around like idiots for a couple hours instead of just going outside and playing sports, etc. I have been gaming for over 20 years, and I LOVE zelda and I could not even finish Twilight Princess. It was frustratingly easy, and actually looked worse in HD then in SD. Sorry Nintendo but that is not what I, and most tech savy folk are looking for. Congrats on getting back to the top and bringing more gamers in, but next time don't leave all of us hardcore adult gamers (and no I am not asking for mature games, I am asking for more challenging games with more longetivity) out in the cold.

Edit:  What peeved me off at the start was that Nintendo put a wireless card in the wii that costs nearly $100 whereas they could have put a $10 LAN port in and used the remainder of the money towards hardware.  I am sure that the wii could have been a nice little 720p console with amazing visuals had they done this, and in doing this they also alienate all the casuals who do not have wireless.
Dr_DudeMan

I am a hardcore gamer, im wowed by my games and i stay addicted and guess what? Im still getting a Wii, and my TV is sh*t. Ive no intention of wasting money on an HD TV with surround sound because you just dont need it for games. Or anything for that matter. Sorry, but you guys are getting ripped.

"Tech savy folk"......there's your problem. No offense, but there needs to be less "tech savy folk".

" Dn't care if casuals and kids are dumb enough to buy the wii" well they were dumb enough to buy the PS2 because of brand names, yet something cheap and unique and god forbid accessible comes along and thats wrong? Ive been gaming all my life and not once have I cared about technical specs, hardware, graphics.....because none of these things gave me the joy and excitement that Nintendo'a games and games consoles have given me. Same goes for many other consoles as well.

M$ and P$3 are doing a disservice to gamers. Nintendo is old school and the other two are from the new generation. So whos better: the hardcore video game fans of Nintendo or the causal 'think they know everything about video games' crowd Sony and Microsoft have. These ppl think that Halo and GTA are the greatest games in the world when TRUE gamers know that Nintendo makes all the classics.

the last hard core gamer i met was 25 years ago... my father played legend of zelda, mario bors 1, duck hunt, hogans alley, gumshoe and two rob the robot games straight through without sleeping. now that is hard core. you kids now days and softcore gamers that would not know a good game if it bit you in the butt. once you have beat super contra without loossing a life (easy compared to some other challenges) come back here and talk about how any company is doing a disservice to hardcore gamers... there has not been a hard game since 1997frankeyser

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Dr_DudeMan"]To start I owned the 360 before getting the wii. Nonetheless, I was still pumped for Nintendo's "revolutionary" system. Don't get me wrong, the console is fun, but not nearly as fun as it is made out to be and it gets tremendously boring.xscrapzx

You are your entitled to your opinion, but don't confuse it for fact.

I used to defend the wii on these forums and now I feel like a sheep for being a blind fool.

Ever think that your being a "blind fool" has nothing to do with consoles at all? I mean...you are judging a console based on only 3 months of time out of a potential 5 years.

For any hardcore gamer with a nice tv and surround sound system rig, the wii is aweful.

Don't confuse being rish and/or spoiled with being a hardcore gamer. Being a hardcore gamer has NOTHING to do with what kind of TV or sound system you have. If you think it does you need to think again.

Not only is the sound horrendous, but it looks worse in HD then in SD in most cases. I find myself having way more fun playing my 360 in full hd and 7.1 digital optical surround sound.

What does being a graphics whore have to do with being a "hardcore gamer"?

With the wii, I felt like I was back at the beginning of last gen, which resulted in it collecting dust as I continued to play my 360.

Right...because last gen sucked and had nothing worth playing.

About 3 months after getting it I traded my wii for a PS3.

Spoken like a true hardcore gamer...sold a console you only had for three months thinking it would never have any games worth your time.

Honestly, I am extremely glad I did. Nintendo games just don't have the longetivity that xbox live and PSN bring to games.

And hardcore gamers ONLY care about FPSers.

Finally, the reason I say that Nintendo did a disservice to the hardcore gamer, is because we want to be wowed by our games and stay addicted,

No...hardcore gamers want to play great games of all varieties. Hardcore gamers want to be wowed but it isn't about graphics so much as quality and originality and fun. The kind of "wow" that you refer to is EXACTLY what most casuals and posers look for...pretty graphics and showing off.

where as kids and casuals want to flail their arms around like idiots for a couple hours instead of just going outside and playing sports, etc.

This coming from the guy who wants to shoot people online?

I have been gaming for over 20 years, and I LOVE zelda and I could not even finish Twilight Princess.

It was frustratingly easy, and actually looked worse in HD then in SD. Sorry Nintendo but that is not what I, and most tech savy folk are looking for.

This explains a lot. You think being a hardcore GAMER and being a hardcore techie are one and the same. They aren't. You are not a hardcore gamer. You clearly don't care about games...only gadgets. To you a console isn't about games but about owning some new peice of technology and that means you only want to show it off and inflate your own self esteem by owning new technology. You are no gamer, sir, any more than someone who rushes out to buy every new model of i-pod is a hardcore gamer.

Congrats on getting back to the top and bringing more gamers in, but next time don't leave all of us hardcore adult gamers (and no I am not asking for mature games, I am asking for more challenging games with more longetivity) out in the cold.

While I am inclined to agree with you about the difficulty being too easy...I couldn't help buy note you make absolutely zero comments on the quality or fun of games and constantly come back to online and graphics.

Edit: What peeved me off at the start was that Nintendo put a wireless card in the wii that costs nearly $100 whereas they could have put a $10 LAN port in and used the remainder of the money towards hardware. I am sure that the wii could have been a nice little 720p console with amazing visuals had they done this, and in doing this they also alienate all the casuals who do not have wireless.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="frankeyser"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]You Sheep act like such babies when anybody has any opinions on your WII. Everytime someone has legimate point you guys all start crying and start saying "oh but this, and oh but that", and then you start bashing because certain people don't like the Wii. Who cares, you like it so go play it, don't sit here and cry and try to convience somebody to like something when they give two rat's a$$'s about it honestly. Your just wasting your breath.TSCombo

everyone else cries when their system gets bashed. why should the sheep not get to?

M$ and P$3 are doing a disservice to gamers. Nintendo is old school and the other two are from the new generation. So whos better: the hardcore video game fans of Nintendo or the causal 'think they know everything about video games' crowd Sony and Microsoft have. These ppl think that Halo and GTA are the greatest games in the world when TRUE gamers know that Nintendo makes all the classics.

Sonicplys