Why PC Gaming Can Get Away With It and Consoles Cant

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7586-Why-PC-Gaming-Gets-Away-With-It

A very good "Jimquisition" video explaining why PC's are the only ones that can get away with a "no used" games market and drm like Steam.  Also explains many other benefits of pc gaming that are directly and/or indirectly involved to why this system works on PC and not consoles.  Video is full of facts, please watch before chiming in your two cents.

Discuss!

Hightlights Short Version by ShadowDeathX

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming has backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Highlights Long Version by Rage010101

- Digital stores on PC are constantly competing with each other to best the other by selling pc games cheaper

- While it is slightly getting better, buying digitally on consoles is still alot more expensive, with alot of games selling at identical prices as their retail counter part.  This is due to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo calling the shots which leads to the next point below.

- On consoles this sysem does not work because of its closed platform nature where MS/Sony/Nin say what can or cant be done; affects game prices.

- Consoles were trying to create a structure of DRM which constantly demands but does not give any benefits to the end user.

- Valve has created an exceptional level of consumer trust by constnatly adding features to Steam that only benefit the consumer, instead of useless things like 24 hour check in's which have no benefit what so ever to the consumer.

- The community (PC gaming), constantly helping each other with issues concerning bugs, patches, compatibility, quick fixes, mods, etc.  Steam has made this even easier by adding official game forums for each game concerning anything regarding a particular game.  Steam has also added Guides that any user can submit at any time, helping the community further ( who needs manuals?).  There is offline mode, chat communities, achievements, and an excellent system to create groups/clans.

- If you don't like DRM in any form, there are digital stores that allow you to buy alot of games that are non-DRM, GoG.com mainly spearheading personally!

- Consoles don't do Backwards Compatibility anymore.  PC does.  We have the choice of how we store our games.  On consoles, limited downloads is a structure that doesnt help the end user.

- PC is at the front when it comes to providing indie devs with freedom.  The benefits are self explanatory.

what's the cliff's notes version?

PC games are cheaper

/thread

what's the cliff's notes version?

CaseyWegner

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming has backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

when a game is less than $10, it's really not worth my time to deal with used games

Would have thought everything he brought up to be obvious but there are a lot of dumb people out there.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

what's the cliff's notes version?

ShadowDeathX

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming is backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

no it isnt it uses windows which is not open

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

what's the cliff's notes version?

osirisx3

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming is backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

no it isnt it uses windows which is not open

And I said; PC is an open source platform. I didn't say anything about the operating system.

Summer Sales :Dmurat8

PC games are cheaper

/thread

seanmcloughlin

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

what's the cliff's notes version?

ShadowDeathX

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming has backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

Thanks!

Not in a mood for a Jimquisition video at the moment... but those are good points! :P

Summer Sales :Dmurat8

[QUOTE="murat8"]Summer Sales :DLordOfPoms

^Someone who has never participated to a summer sale, considering last summers sale saw Skyrim on sale at 20 euros 8 months after release

pwn'd

what's the cliff's notes version?

CaseyWegner

It's a good video that you probably would enjoy, but I'll still fit it in for you.  Things that make the "no used games"/drm structure work for pc are

- Digital stores on PC are constantly competing with each other to best the other by selling pc games cheaper

- While it is slightly getting better, buying digitally on consoles is still alot more expensive, with alot of games selling at identical prices as their retail counter part.  This is due to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo calling the shots which leads to the next point below.

- On consoles this sysem does not work because of its closed platform nature where MS/Sony/Nin say what can or cant be done; affects game prices.

- Consoles were trying to create a structure of DRM which constantly demands but does not give any benefits to the end user.

- Valve has created an exceptional level of consumer trust by constnatly adding features to Steam that only benefit the consumer, instead of useless things like 24 hour check in's which have no benefit what so ever to the consumer.

- The community (PC gaming), constantly helping each other with issues concerning bugs, patches, compatibility, quick fixes, mods, etc.  Steam has made this even easier by adding official game forums for each game concerning anything regarding a particular game.  Steam has also added Guides that any user can submit at any time, helping the community further ( who needs manuals?).  There is offline mode, chat communities, achievements, and an excellent system to create groups/clans.

- If you don't like DRM in any form, there are digital stores that allow you to buy alot of games that are non-DRM, GoG.com mainly spearheading personally!

- Consoles don't do Backwards Compatibility anymore.  PC does.  We have the choice of how we store our games.  On consoles, limited downloads is a structure that doesnt help the end user.

- PC is at the front when it comes to providing indie devs with freedom.  The benefits are self explanatory.

Those are a good bulk of the highlights, but there are more and they're explained in the vid in detail.  I recommend you still watch.  Ima add this to the OP.

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

what's the cliff's notes version?

osirisx3

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming is backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

no it isnt it uses windows which is not open

Because it's an open platform, MS doesnt see a cent when we buy games, software, etc that have nothing to do with MS.  MS doesnt see any royalties even if we use their OS, because it is just that, OPEN PLATFORM!  You really need to educate yourself on what "open platform" means.

[QUOTE="murat8"]Summer Sales :Dparkurtommo

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"][QUOTE="murat8"]Summer Sales :Dmurat8

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

what's the cliff's notes version?

ShadowDeathX

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming has backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

Updating...

I'm going to add your version in the OP along with mine for ppl who want short version, since mine is super long

[QUOTE="LordOfPoms"][QUOTE="murat8"]Summer Sales :DN30F3N1X

^Someone who has never participated to a summer sale, considering last summers sale saw Skyrim on sale at 20 euros 8 months after release

pwn'd

I'm going to add your version in the OP along with mine for ppl who want short version, since mine is super long

Rage010101

when a game is less than $10, it's really not worth my time to deal with used games

lostrib

exactly, which is probably the main but just one of the many reasons why "no used games" work on pc and not consoles.

[QUOTE="murat8"]Summer Sales :DLordOfPoms

Bro... alot of new games (within months of release) go on sale too, especially during the summer sale.  Seriously, what are you talking about?

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

when a game is less than $10, it's really not worth my time to deal with used games

Rage010101

exactly, which is probably the main but just one of the many reasons why "no used games" work on pc and not consoles.

PC gaming FTW?metal_zombie

Yes

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

[QUOTE="ShadowDeathX"]

> PC is an Open Source Platform.

> PC digital retailers compete against each other; brings price down.

> PC gamers have easy access to see if a game is worth it or not. Reviews are published on store fronts.

> PC gaming is diverse enough that small, medium, and large AAA developers can co-exist and compete. Consoles are controlled by mightly publishers.

> PC gaming has many perks and a few disadvantages. Adding used DRM to console is just adding more disadvantages and no perks. No Plug and Play.

> Console experience is limited to what is given. PC experience is limited by yourself.

> PC gaming is backwards compatablity. Consoles are limited or NOT backwards compatablity. Current Gen Digital Downloads won't transfer to upgraded new consoles.

> Consoles are heavily controlled by first party and powerful publishers.

> Patches and Updates take forever to go through console loops. PC is instant.

 

Updating...

Rage010101

no it isnt it uses windows which is not open

Because it's an open platform, MS doesnt see a cent when we buy games, software, etc that have nothing to do with MS.  MS doesnt see any royalties even if we use their OS, because it is just that, OPEN PLATFORM!  You really need to educate yourself on what "open platform" means.

they sure do because you have to buy windows to run those games.Just because you can change your hardware does not make it open when you have to use what ever os ms puts out.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

when a game is less than $10, it's really not worth my time to deal with used games

LordOfPoms

exactly, which is probably the main but just one of the many reasons why "no used games" work on pc and not consoles.

And in its current form in PC does nothing but help the end user by providing cheap/affordable prices, freedom of storage, multiple downloads, great community...ah hell just watch the video man all this is explained on why this structure works on PC.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

no it isnt it uses windows which is not open

osirisx3

Because it's an open platform, MS doesnt see a cent when we buy games, software, etc that have nothing to do with MS.  MS doesnt see any royalties even if we use their OS, because it is just that, OPEN PLATFORM!  You really need to educate yourself on what "open platform" means.

they sure do because you have to buy windows to run those games.Just because you can change your hardware does not make it open when you have to use what ever os ms puts out.

^ still has no clue what open platform means.

[QUOTE="metal_zombie"]PC gaming FTW?Rage010101

Yes

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="metal_zombie"]PC gaming FTW?metal_zombie

Yes

Ya, it's a vid explaining why the "no used games" and "drm" don't work well with consoles and in order for him to explain that, he needs to use the PC as a comparison, since it works so well with PC.

[QUOTE="metal_zombie"][QUOTE="Rage010101"]

Yes

Rage010101

Ya, it's a vid explaining why the "no used games" and "drm" don't work well with consoles and in order for him to explain that, he needs to use the PC as a comparison, since it works so well with PC.

[QUOTE="LordOfPoms"][QUOTE="Rage010101"]

exactly, which is probably the main but just one of the many reasons why "no used games" work on pc and not consoles.

Rage010101

And in its current form in PC does nothing but help the end user by providing cheap/affordable prices, freedom of storage, multiple downloads, great community...ah hell just watch the video man all this is explained on why this structure works on PC.

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

Because it's an open platform, MS doesnt see a cent when we buy games, software, etc that have nothing to do with MS.  MS doesnt see any royalties even if we use their OS, because it is just that, OPEN PLATFORM!  You really need to educate yourself on what "open platform" means.

Rage010101

they sure do because you have to buy windows to run those games.Just because you can change your hardware does not make it open when you have to use what ever os ms puts out.

^ still has no clue what open platform means.

No you don't windows is closed software. Its not open source! bu bu teh royalties!!! sorry that does not make it open.

what's the cliff's notes version?

CaseyWegner

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

 

they sure do because you have to buy windows to run those games.Just because you can change your hardware does not make it open when you have to use what ever os ms puts out.

osirisx3

^ still has no clue what open platform means.

No you don't windows is closed software. Its not open source! bu bu teh royalties!!! sorry that does not make it open.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="metal_zombie"] kool he mostly talked about consolesmetal_zombie

Ya, it's a vid explaining why the "no used games" and "drm" don't work well with consoles and in order for him to explain that, he needs to use the PC as a comparison, since it works so well with PC.

That's fair, preferences are preferences, I can't argue against that.

People still say "pwn'd"? OK then...

Bought a ton of stuff from Summer/Winter sales, but rarely are the best AAA games people want on sale immediately. 8 months after release is pretty early, but that's still so long after the initial launch window. Point is, PC gamers love to hype Steam Sales as a magical time of year where every game you could ever want is on sale, but the reality is that indies/older games/collections are the best deals and it's rare for a newly release AAA game to get a big cut. The value of a Steam Sale is buying the big $80 collections of an entire publisher. The price per game gets insane at that level, but people shy from them because of the initial buy in.LordOfPoms

No shit Sherlock, the fact that Steam sales are so great doesn't mean they can defy the laws of supply and demand or the desires of the game producers. Take an economy 101 course and then come back, cause now you are really just talking out of your ass.

Unlike console gamers who are too dumb to be independent buyers and need to be hiveminded into buying a new game, PC gamers buy games when it fits them. Sales of PC games aren't an all or nothing that gets exhausted one month after the game is released. That's why what you are saying regarding the "so long after the intial launch widow" is plain and utter bullshit.

Also, on what f*cking planet do you live? Have you ever bought anything other than groceries in your life? Because the fact that bulk sales have a much more convenient per-unit price goes for every industry ever, especially outside entertainment.

Now go into the corner, put your dunce hat on and start meditating over the stupidity of what you said.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

 

they sure do because you have to buy windows to run those games.Just because you can change your hardware does not make it open when you have to use what ever os ms puts out.

osirisx3

^ still has no clue what open platform means.

No you don't windows is closed software. Its not open source! bu bu teh royalties!!! sorry that does not make it open.

Lol just no!  It's time for you to stop and just listen to the adults conversate.

to me the fact that my games are cheap, i control what goes in and out of my system, i can modify my games, I can get to play games that simply don't work on console. All this and more means DRM is ok on PC. Also steam has an offline mode anyway although you have to be online first. DRM on console kinda takes away from the "console" experience imo. Being able to pop in a disk and play, trade in games even though its a scam to do so, sell your games second hand, all these things make up the console experience. Take them away and you might as well just make a PC. But DRM is coming to the industry whether we like it or not and this is why the gaming console as we know it wont exist next gen. Just look at what MS is doing now.NFJSupreme

Personally I feel like I have more ownership of my games on PC since I can install them as many times as I want across multiple computers, I can store them on the storage device of my choosing, and I can mod my games.  You can't do that on consoles.

[QUOTE="LordOfPoms"]People still say "pwn'd"? OK then...

Bought a ton of stuff from Summer/Winter sales, but rarely are the best AAA games people want on sale immediately. 8 months after release is pretty early, but that's still so long after the initial launch window. Point is, PC gamers love to hype Steam Sales as a magical time of year where every game you could ever want is on sale, but the reality is that indies/older games/collections are the best deals and it's rare for a newly release AAA game to get a big cut. The value of a Steam Sale is buying the big $80 collections of an entire publisher. The price per game gets insane at that level, but people shy from them because of the initial buy in.N30F3N1X

No shit Sherlock, the fact that Steam sales are so great doesn't mean they can defy the laws of supply and demand or the desires of the game producers. Take an economy 101 course and then come back, cause now you are really just talking out of your ass.

Unlike console gamers who are too dumb to be independent buyers and need to be hiveminded into buying a new game, PC gamers buy games when it fits them. Sales of PC games aren't an all or nothing that gets exhausted one month after the game is released. That's why what you are saying regarding the "so long after the intial launch widow" is plain and utter bullshit.

Also, on what f*cking planet do you live? Have you ever bought anything other than groceries in your life? Because the fact that bulk sales have a much more convenient per-unit price goes for every industry ever, especially outside entertainment.

Now go into the corner, put your dunce hat on and start meditating over the stupidity of what you said.

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

^ still has no clue what open platform means.

Rage010101

No you don't windows is closed software. Its not open source! bu bu teh royalties!!! sorry that does not make it open.

Lol just no!  It's time for you to stop and just listen to the adults conversate.

Actually Osiris is correct. In your post you state that "PC is an Open Source Platform". As Osirisx pointed out, that is incorrect for the vast majority of PC Gamers. Since windows is the defacto OS for PC gamers and since Windows is NOT open source its somewhat misleading to claim that the PC is open source.

If you were to say that the PC is an open platform you would have a valid argument since no one can prevent you from releasing a game or piece of software for the platform. But that's not what you post says, I think thats what Osirisx tried to point out.

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]to me the fact that my games are cheap, i control what goes in and out of my system, i can modify my games, I can get to play games that simply don't work on console. All this and more means DRM is ok on PC. Also steam has an offline mode anyway although you have to be online first. DRM on console kinda takes away from the "console" experience imo. Being able to pop in a disk and play, trade in games even though its a scam to do so, sell your games second hand, all these things make up the console experience. Take them away and you might as well just make a PC. But DRM is coming to the industry whether we like it or not and this is why the gaming console as we know it wont exist next gen. Just look at what MS is doing now.Rage010101

Personally I feel like I have more ownership of my games on PC since I can install them as many times as I want across multiple computers, I can store them on the storage device of my choosing, and I can mod my games.  You can't do that on consoles.

The reason why PC gets away with it is because the Herms allowed it to happen.bbkkristian

And we are rewarded with benefits consoles can only dream of.  Oh noes how dare they sell us games for such a low price!  What will us herms ever do!?!?

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="NFJSupreme"]to me the fact that my games are cheap, i control what goes in and out of my system, i can modify my games, I can get to play games that simply don't work on console. All this and more means DRM is ok on PC. Also steam has an offline mode anyway although you have to be online first. DRM on console kinda takes away from the "console" experience imo. Being able to pop in a disk and play, trade in games even though its a scam to do so, sell your games second hand, all these things make up the console experience. Take them away and you might as well just make a PC. But DRM is coming to the industry whether we like it or not and this is why the gaming console as we know it wont exist next gen. Just look at what MS is doing now.LordOfPoms

Personally I feel like I have more ownership of my games on PC since I can install them as many times as I want across multiple computers, I can store them on the storage device of my choosing, and I can mod my games.  You can't do that on consoles.

Yes, Gabe Newell himself said that out of his own mouth.  Praise be thy Gaben, hollowed be thy name.

[QUOTE="LordOfPoms"][QUOTE="Rage010101"]

Personally I feel like I have more ownership of my games on PC since I can install them as many times as I want across multiple computers, I can store them on the storage device of my choosing, and I can mod my games.  You can't do that on consoles.

Rage010101

Yes, Gabe Newell himself said that out of his own mouth.  Praise be thy Gaben, hollowed be thy name.