Why the Wii can NOT ruin gaming

Why the Wii can NOT ruin gaming.

1: The PC. It is because of companies like AMD/ATI, nVidia, and Intel that are always in competition with each other driving their respective business' to build something bigger and better and faster and more efficient. It is because of these advances in HARDWARE that drives the makers of consoles to play catch up. If they all decided to all of sudden take the same route as Nintendo then many console gamers would quickly migrate to the PC. Even the 360 and the PS3 are obsolete in the ever evolving world of the PC.

2: The Gamer. I have been gaming since I was 4, and so have many many people. In fact the average gamer is something like 28 years old, which is older then me and I started on an Atari 2600, then NES, Genesis, SNES, PSX, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, XBox, Wii, PS3 all in that order. And I will always demand quality from my games. I like everything from Mario to Metal Gear but the thing that all the games have in common is that they are fun, epic, and just plain great in their respective genre's. I do not except mediocrosy and I know that I am not alone. There will always be a market for the "core" gamer.

3. The Developers. Many people confuse the publisher with the DEV. The Dev is like the director, producer, writer, and actors of a movie. The publisher just funds said game. Now let's make an analogy here and I will use Lord of the Rings as an example here. When Peter Jackson said I want to do LotR, he needed funding, some publisher said they would fund the project. The publisher didn't say "no, we aren't going to give you money because we could make 10 mediocre movies and make more money that way." No they said "damn, this is going to be epic, it is going to sell ridiculously well and it will help keep the movie industry afloat." They saw a great director, with a great storyline, with amazing actors and saw success. Today game publishers see the same thing in DEV teams like Wii Wright, Sid Meier, Kojima, Bioware, Bethesda, Crytek, Valve, Epic, Irrational, Eat Sleep Play, Relic, Ubi Montreal, Mistwalker, Square-Enix, Blizzard, EALA (formerly Westwood studios), Infinity Ward, Bungie, Gas Powered Games, Ensemble, Turn 10, Polyphony Digital, Bizzare Creations, Capcom, Pandemic, Naughty Dog and so many more.

4. The programmer. No great game programmer has ever said they just want to make mini-games. Like Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, Martin Scorcese, Tom Hanks, Russle Crow, Stan Lee, JRR Tolkien, Frank Sinatra, The Beatles and the many other great directors/producers/actors/writers/musicians, they want to make something epic, something grand, something people will forever remember them for. Kojima has Metal Gear, Miyamoto has Zelda and Mario, Yamauchi has Gran Turismo. People in general don't want to be mediocre, it just is that it happens to most of us, people want to be great.

5. Legitamacy. Nintendo is trying to expand the market, we were all at one point or another just a casual gamer. I happened to start with pong, my Mom with Tetris, my girlfriend with Guitar Hero and Wii Sports, my Grandfather with Tiger Woods Golf, and so many more. People need a reason to start gaming and they aren't all of a sudden going to be turned on by something that hasn't garnered their intrest in the past. But if you can get them somehow, whether it is through WiiFit or BrainAge, then all we are doing is making more gamers. And when their are more gamers then the legitamacy of videogames will grow. It won't be until videogames touch a billion people that videogames will be considered a legitamate form of media entertainment. It is looked down on, less so now then 10 years ago, but society still blames it for it's faults and it won't stop until it is considered legitamate.

6. The Games. Nintendo is still making Zelda, Mario, Samus, and a franchise to be revived. They still cater to the "core" of the Nintendo Nation. What was their last great fresh IP, Pokemon, Nintendo has always been about it's core franchises and just because it's new IP's are geared at new gamers doesn't mean it doesn't know where the hearts of it's Nintendo Fanboy's reside. And I don't have a list right in front of me and after all this typing I don't feel like looking it up, but I am pretty sure that Nintendo does have some new IP's coming out that are geared more towards the "core" gamer.

7. The crap. There has always been crap that has sold well...Matrix Game anyone...and there will always be crap that sells. You want to blame someone for crap blame the EBGames that are pressured by corporate to push crap onto its consumers and not be informed about the games they are selling. Blame the publisher that pays corporate EB to push crap games by pressuring its employees, but do not blame Nintendo.

8. The PC enthusiast. This one goes hand and hand with number 1. The reason those companies continue to push hardware is because of A: Moores Law, B: The PC enthusiast. C: The need to be more powerful. A: Self Explanatory, B: This is the guy who takes the latest and greatest, throws it in his PC, runs a bunch of Benchmarks after painstakingly OverClocking his CPU for 2 weeks just to have the highest PCMark score. These people exist and there are a lot of them. C: If there wasn't a need for more power then we would still be using Comodore's, but we aren't we are using CPU's that were considered SuperComputer's 2 decades ago and that trend is not about to halt because of the ever growing need for more computing power in order to do research in everything from medicine to weather to rocket science to aerodynamic design.

Not this again :roll:

We know.

DLP I'm taking partial credit for this post :lol:PBSnipes

It's yours man.

2. in all those years of gaming didn't is strick you as odd that ever generation the hardware would become very advanced from that last? except it wii's case that is

3 and 4. if wii becomes completely dominatine(which it is) that gives less room (becoase of hardware) for all those big names even kojima to make epic and ground breaking games

5. sony, nitendo, MS, and almot ever major gaming devlopering company is in it for the money nothing else. facts of life bud

6. the games aren't the problem

7. there is crap on everthing but wii could be limiting games to being crap

1. if wii sells like it is that means there doesn't need to be big graphical advancements so why would ATI and Nividia keep making high end graphics cards if they only used for PC gaming which could turn toward wii?

2. in all those years of gaming didn't is strick you as odd that ever generation the hardware would become very advanced from that last? except it wii's case that is

3 and 4. if wii becomes completely dominatine(which it is) that gives less room (becoase of hardware) for all those big names even kojima to make epic and ground breaking games

5. sony, nitendo, MS, and almot ever major gaming devlopering company is in it for the money nothing else. facts of life bud

6. the games aren't the problem

7. there is crap on everthing but wii could be limiting games to being crap

Ragashahs

1. Read # 8
2. The Wii did something different. So what, the technology to make movies has increased just as fast as the console business yet they continue to push the envelope. And some don't some prefer to use older equipment, it's a matter of taste.
3 and 4. Continue to ignore Moore's Law and the PC enthusiast.
5. And so are all the people that I mentioned, but great things yield great returns.
7. The Wii is not limiting games, bad developers are, even MiniGames can be done well, look at WarioWare

[QUOTE="Ragashahs"]1. if wii sells like it is that means there doesn't need to be big graphical advancements so why would ATI and Nividia keep making high end graphics cards if they only used for PC gaming which could turn toward wii?

2. in all those years of gaming didn't is strick you as odd that ever generation the hardware would become very advanced from that last? except it wii's case that is

3 and 4. if wii becomes completely dominatine(which it is) that gives less room (becoase of hardware) for all those big names even kojima to make epic and ground breaking games

5. sony, nitendo, MS, and almot ever major gaming devlopering company is in it for the money nothing else. facts of life bud

6. the games aren't the problem

7. there is crap on everthing but wii could be limiting games to being crap

dlp21

1. Read # 8
2. The Wii did something different. So what, the technology to make movies has increased just as fast as the console business yet they continue to push the envelope. And some don't some prefer to use older equipment, it's a matter of taste.
3 and 4. Continue to ignore Moore's Law and the PC enthusiast.
5. And so are all the people that I mentioned, but great things yield great returns.
7. The Wii is not limiting games, bad developers are, even MiniGames can be done well, look at WarioWare

enough with this PC enthusiast crap unless there are hundreds of millions of enthusists they by themselves can't keep high end graphics cards afloat because if wii dominates there will be no need for high end card again and again only minor advances every once in a while

Ragashahs

OK, well then I will cite Pixar, Dreamworks, and the many other companies and industries that rely on the power of the videocard to help with rendering, floating point precision, and the million other applications it has outside of gaming,

And there doesn't have to be hundreds of millions, just enough to make a profit, and considering that it's like a 4 week wait for Dell's high end system because they can't turn them out that fast I would def say there is a demand. And that is from people who don't just build them. I think you totally underestimate the PC enthusiast crowd.

1. if wii sells like it is that means there doesn't need to be big graphical advancements so why would ATI and Nividia keep making high end graphics cards if they only used for PC gaming which could turn toward wii? There are other industries that require high end computers. Graphic design, simulators and many design programs (for achatecture and the like) require high end PCs with both high processing and graphical power.

2. in all those years of gaming didn't is strick you as odd that ever generation the hardware would become very advanced from that last? except it wii's case that is To keep the price/cost down, its a pretty simple concept. Just because its not a graphical powerhouse doesn't mean the Wii is going to ruin gaming. The 360 doesn't have an HD storage medium like HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, its holding back gaming too.

3 and 4. if wii becomes completely dominatine(which it is) that gives less room (becoase of hardware) for all those big names even kojima to make epic and ground breaking games The 360 sold about 10 million units in its first year, about half of what the Xbox did in its entire lifetime. Assuming this trend continues the 360 will easily surpass the Xbox within its lifetime, and could potentially sell well north of 50-60 million units. Halo 1 and 2 each sold 7 million copies on the Xbox, even at the current 360 sales levels that still means about 3.5 million copies of Halo 3 will be sold. On the PS2 (with its exponentially bigger install base) the MGS games never broke 4 million copies sold if my memory serves me correctly. If Kojima (and other traditional developers) made their games multiplat they would already have a market of 15+ million consoles+gaming PCs, more than enough to sell the 7 million copies Halo did.

5. sony, nitendo, MS, and almot ever major gaming devlopering company is in it for the money nothing else. facts of life bud And a significant market segment is the hardcore gamer, who buys more consoles, games and other gaming related items than any other market segment. It would be foolish to ignore hardcore gamers because of how much revenue they provide.

6. the games aren't the problem So you would be fine if MS and Sony scapped all their current games for SceneIt and generic movie based games because their console could still technically provide a better experience than the Wii even if no one took advantage of it?

7. there is crap on everthing but wii could be limiting games to being crap How so? If you were to poll people on what their favourite game of all time is I'd bet you dollars to donuts that at least 75% of those games came from the previous generation or even before.

Ragashahs

[QUOTE="Ragashahs"]

enough with this PC enthusiast crap unless there are hundreds of millions of enthusists they by themselves can't keep high end graphics cards afloat because if wii dominates there will be no need for high end card again and again only minor advances every once in a while

dlp21

OK, well then I will cite Pixar, Dreamworks, and the many other companies and industries that rely on the power of the videocard to help with rendering, floating point precision, and the million other applications it has outside of gaming,

you forget one very important thing all those companies use CGI technology the THEY DEVELOPE pixar makes their own equipment and all other copanies hire there own privet CGI movies companies liek weta production in LOTR. even with that that does not translat in to gaming at allRagashahs

Umm, are you trying to tell me that Pixar makes it's own hardware, because if you are you are wrong, Pixar hasn't developed hardware the early 90's, they have been using Apple hardware which is now Intel/AMD/nVidia based. The creators of Shrek use a total Linux/Intel/nVidia solution. And what do you think those out of house companies use to render their CGI films??

[QUOTE="dlp21"][QUOTE="Ragashahs"]

enough with this PC enthusiast crap unless there are hundreds of millions of enthusists they by themselves can't keep high end graphics cards afloat because if wii dominates there will be no need for high end card again and again only minor advances every once in a while

Ragashahs

OK, well then I will cite Pixar, Dreamworks, and the many other companies and industries that rely on the power of the videocard to help with rendering, floating point precision, and the million other applications it has outside of gaming,

[QUOTE="Ragashahs"]1. if wii sells like it is that means there doesn't need to be big graphical advancements so why would ATI and Nividia keep making high end graphics cards if they only used for PC gaming which could turn toward wii? There are other industries that require high end computers. Graphic design, simulators and many design programs (for achatecture and the like) require high end PCs with both high processing and graphical power.

2. in all those years of gaming didn't is strick you as odd that ever generation the hardware would become very advanced from that last? except it wii's case that is To keep the price/cost down, its a pretty simple concept. Just because its not a graphical powerhouse doesn't mean the Wii is going to ruin gaming. The 360 doesn't have an HD storage medium like HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, its holding back gaming too.

3 and 4. if wii becomes completely dominatine(which it is) that gives less room (becoase of hardware) for all those big names even kojima to make epic and ground breaking games The 360 sold about 10 million units in its first year, about half of what the Xbox did in its entire lifetime. Assuming this trend continues the 360 will easily surpass the Xbox within its lifetime, and could potentially sell well north of 50-60 million units. Halo 1 and 2 each sold 7 million copies on the Xbox, even at the current 360 sales levels that still means about 3.5 million copies of Halo 3 will be sold. On the PS2 (with its exponentially bigger install base) the MGS games never broke 4 million copies sold if my memory serves me correctly. If Kojima (and other traditional developers) made their games multiplat they would already have a market of 15+ million consoles+gaming PCs, more than enough to sell the 7 million copies Halo did.

5. sony, nitendo, MS, and almot ever major gaming devlopering company is in it for the money nothing else. facts of life bud And a significant market segment is the hardcore gamer, who buys more consoles, games and other gaming related items than any other market segment. It would be foolish to ignore hardcore gamers because of how much revenue they provide.

6. the games aren't the problem So you would be fine if MS and Sony scapped all their current games for SceneIt and generic movie based games because their console could still technically provide a better experience than the Wii even if no one took advantage of it?

7. there is crap on everthing but wii could be limiting games to being crap How so? If you were to poll people on what their favourite game of all time is I'd bet you dollars to donuts that at least 75% of those games came from the previous generation or even before.

PBSnipes

1. true but thats when privets companies play in lucas arts, weta all make alot of big hollywood production and CGI movies and in either case that doesn't mean anything in gaming

2. i'm not talking about graphic advanced A.i., physics, facial detail, levels, ammount of enemies, interactions, animation all of it is limited by the wii hardware and true 360 does kinda hold the gen back with HDD and not nex gen media but not to the point of wii

3 & 4. your right it sold 10 million consoles in it's first year. second years when competeing with wii? they are about to come on 2 years and are close to 11.5 million shipped!!! 1.5 million in one year since wii came out halo will boost but it can't do it by itself

5. i'm not saying nitendo is or isn't abadoning hard core gamers all i can tell you that their isn't much for hard core fans

6. thats not what i meant the games, while not good, are not the problems it's the system that limits the quality of games that is the problems. were seeing amazing gameplay come out of 360 ps3 and pc we never thought possible. wii? nothing we haven't seen before but just with the wii mote

7. same as 6

Pixar, Dreamworks, Weta etc. do not develop and manufacture their own hardware. They have to buy it from hardware manufacturers like, you guessed it, AMD/ATI. Because the amount of CGI in movies is increasing as well as the quality of that CGI work then AMD/ATI will be forced to produce higher quality CPUs and GPUs capable of processing the various calculations involved in producing CGI.PBSnipes

Once again you are wrong, did you know that:

7 out of 10 global finacial services firms rely on nVidia tech for their multi displays

3 out of 4 AMD Opteron PCI Express servers depend on nVidia core logic

10 out of 10 automobiles are designed on nVida powered workstations

Along with the fact that nVidia doesn't make very specific hardware, they make their quadro line, which is the same technology that is later used to make the GPU that use to play videogames. nVidia's main business is not videogames, it just the one everyone knows nVidia for.

I understand why nintendo made the wii

1. It's a oc'd cube with more memory and motion that is cheap to make.

2. Nintendo could not compete with the hardware for the 360 and ps3 and they are cheap.

3. Nintendo has no online

4. They made motion for non gamers to be able to play games

I can understand and appreciate the marketing savvy of nintendo who were losing the traditional gamer to ms and sony. So they went in the opposite direction and went after the casual gamer that knows nothing. The trouble is the traditional gamer has been left out imo in the rush for the casuals money with crappy ports with inferior graphics and sound. After all the casual gamer does not have the expectations of the traditional gamer so all the old stuff could be reused at a profit well done nintendo.

However I am a hardcore traditional gamer and the wii holds little appeal for me and for gamers like me. The hardcore traditional gamer buys the most games, plays the most games, games online, buys extras and generally sets the tone for the industry as to what' s the next big thing. When people want to know what to buy they ask the hardcore gamer ie us. Nintendo has basically given the hardcore gamer the finger with all the motion mini games and fired the quality control dept.

I have been a long time supporter of the nintendo brand through the nes to the cube but I draw the line at the wii. How can I in good conscience play the wii after playing with my 360 and ps3 ??

My old xbox has better games, online and graphics's than nintendo's next gen system. Think about that the old xbox from 2001 is better across the board than the wii from 2006 wtf ??

The xbox can be found for 99 bucks or less for a samung version and the games used cost 20 bucks or alot less for great games and live still is great on the old box (just ask the halo 2 players). Has the wii ruin gaming no, not for casuals but for the traditional hardcore gamer the answer is most definitely yes imo.

Once again you are wrong, did you know that:

7 out of 10 global finacial services firms rely on nVidia tech for their multi displays

3 out of 4 AMD Opteron PCI Express servers depend on nVidia core logic

10 out of 10 automobiles are designed on nVida powered workstations

Along with the fact that nVidia doesn't make very specific hardware, they make their quadro line, which is the same technology that is later used to make the GPU that use to play videogames. nVidia's main business is not videogames, it just the one everyone knows nVidia for.

dlp21

If there was no demand then why did Sony build the PS3 and MS the 360. When all is said and done I guarantee that there will be more nVida 8800+ GPU's, PS3's and 360's sold which means that there still is more demand for those products then the Wii. Even if the Wii sells 200million, it won't do so on the merits of just minigames. It will need good 3rd party support and good "core" games.

nVidia and AMD/ATI make so much more money on their PC branded hardware then console hardware and even more on corporate hardware. Which means it will continue it's R&D cycle for GPU's.

And the only way that the Wii will ruin gaming is if the 160 million people who bought a console last generation just roll over and die and not demand excellence.

You are so closed minded in your arguments. It goes so far beyond just the technical abilities of the Wii.

You can give me 100 reason, i still hate it for the childish fad that it is.

If there was no demand then why did Sony build the PS3 and MS the 360. When all is said and done I guarantee that there will be more nVida 8800+ GPU's, PS3's and 360's sold which means that there still is more demand for those products then the Wii.

dlp21

It won't happen. Because there still is demand right now for all those products and there will continue to be a brand.

Once again I will use the movie industry as an example. You have comedies which are usually low production as far as costs go yet they net millions upon millions but you don't see everyone just giving up on making the next great movie.

It won't happen. Because there still is demand right now for all those products and there will continue to be a brand.

Once again I will use the movie industry as an example. You have comedies which are usually low production as far as costs go yet they net millions upon millions but you don't see everyone just giving up on making the next great movie.

dlp21

I think you give the Wii more credit then it deserves. You are right, it is a polished version of last gen's tech. In fact most systems don't sell that well until the Gen is in full swing, look at the PS and PS2, both of which had better sales then it's succesor for a good amount of time.

But what eventually happened is people moved away and adopted the new technology. The Wii, while I won't call it a Fad or gimmick, will not last as long as the 360 or the PS3.

Sales will taper off in comparision to the other systems and I have the PS3 and 360 being 1 and 2 by the time this gen gets ready to move on.

There is just to much of a demand for bigger and better and no matter how many systems the Wii sells that demand won't go away, maybe dwarfed, but will def not go away.

And you missed my point with Movie Industry...it was an analogy, of course it has nothing to do with gaming.

I think you give the Wii more credit then it deserves. You are right, it is a polished version of last gen's tech. In fact most systems don't sell that well until the Gen is in full swing, look at the PS and PS2, both of which had better sales then it's succesor for a good amount of time.

But what eventually happened is people moved away and adopted the new technology. The Wii, while I won't call it a Fad or gimmick, will not last as long as the 360 or the PS3.

Sales will taper off in comparision to the other systems and I have the PS3 and 360 being 1 and 2 by the time this gen gets ready to move on.

There is just to much of a demand for bigger and better and no matter how many systems the Wii sells that demand won't go away, maybe dwarfed, but will def not go away.

And you missed my point with Movie Industry...it was an analogy, of course it has nothing to do with gaming.

dlp21

grr the Wii is not ruining gaming.dlp21

No, it's not ruining gaming, it's just bringing it back to last generation.