Why the Wii is the way it is.

In the wake of the Wii's release, I've begun to notice a commonality among some of the hardcore gamers in their disdain of the Wii.

Those who do not like the Wii, simply dont understand why it has gained success. To them the 360/PS3 is a better system for graphics and its online play. Games are oriented to shooters and RPGs, and the games themselves are detailed with a beautiful presentation and well written.

To these gamers, the Wii is a joke, Nintendo couldn't possibly dominate this generation because they lack the graphics and online play. But thats the thing. That hardcore opinion is slowly shrinking, and gamers will enter into a, sort of... reborn era of videogames. After all, Super Mario Bros. when released in 1985 wasnt complicated, and Wii Sports was released in 2006 and is just as simple.

Nintendo does this best, while looking at Nintendogs the other day, I really started to notice the backgrounds while you take your dog on a walk. They were at random, images that would fade in and out of the surrounding to where you were in the city. Near a park and trees would appear and fade away once you passed, there is really no city at all. Your dog is walking in a straight path the whole time, the map may show that you've turned a corner, but the city itself isnt important to the task at hand. Same with Wii Sports, their is only one stadium in baseball, and only one arena in boxing, the environment isnt as diverse, but you are focusing on the actual physical part of the game.

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer. Shining light once again on what seems to be the forgotten position. Screenshots are all we hear about when PS3/360 games are announced. People rush to see the screenshots and talk rave about them, the graphic artist seems to be the most important in developing a PS3/360 game. 

Well as we know when a Wii game is released, screenshots are not something that is wise to bring up. But is their a reason? The Wii was designed to not accentuate graphical capability. But to accentuate the programmer's capability.

And I'm not touting gameplay either. Its not graphics vs. gameplay, its functionality within a videogame! Nintendo made the system graphically weak but program-ably strong.

The hardcore gamer, boasts of online capability and high visuals. But how many actually want to play that? It is fine for those who do, but I feel that as time goes on, there will be a less of demand for those games. And that the total online experience will lose a bit of momentum.

Sometimes you just want to sit down and play a game for 30 mins, not dealing with the hassle of a complex game.

I think that over time, this will become more evident, as the Wii and DS are just the first examples of a new generation of gaming.

If you think the reason people like me dislike the Wii is because of "graphics and online", then you don't understand us at all.Teufelhuhn

If you think the reason people like me dislike the Wii is because of "graphics and online", then you don't understand us at all.Teufelhuhn

Care to explain then? 

Wii is a weak console. Why do we want to play gamecube games twice on new hardware with non updated technology installed in it.

Wii= console of yesterday

and the games themselves are detailed with a beautiful presentation and well written.hiho24

Oh yes, wii has none of those ever :roll:

Wii is a weak console. Why do we want to play gamecube games twice on new hardware with non updated technology installed in it.

Wii= console of yesterday

Playstation00

its the first successful console to use full motion sensing in gaming which brings something new in the gaming industry. Do you like to play games with the old traditional controller for the rest of your life? Then you'll miss something. There has to be something new and different. It may be good or bad but its worth taking risk. If there's no something new like the wii mote for the next 10 years, games will be getting boring with just realistic graphics, physics, AI and the old traditional controller. This is my opinion though.

the reason why nintendo is weak cus they want companys to make games fun . not good looking! to make good sales the game must be fun not just good lookingdeadmeat59

You make the common failing point of wii fans, you assume games can't be fun if they aren't on the wii. GEoW sold well in part because it looks good graphically, but there is also an element of fun to the game that means many people buy it. Don't assume that just because the wii has the new controller that automatically invalidates any fun with traditional controllers. For the past 20 years have you been avoiding gaming because you can't stand a game pad? 

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]the reason why nintendo is weak cus they want companys to make games fun . not good looking! to make good sales the game must be fun not just good lookingreaperstoll

You make the common failing point of wii fans, you assume games can't be fun if they aren't on the wii. GEoW sold well in part because it looks good graphically, but there is also an element of fun to the game that means many people buy it. Don't assume that just because the wii has the new controller that automatically invalidates any fun with traditional controllers. For the past 20 years have you been avoiding gaming because you can't stand a game pad?

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]the reason why nintendo is weak cus they want companys to make games fun . not good looking! to make good sales the game must be fun not just good lookingreaperstoll

You make the common failing point of wii fans, you assume games can't be fun if they aren't on the wii. GEoW sold well in part because it looks good graphically, but there is also an element of fun to the game that means many people buy it. Don't assume that just because the wii has the new controller that automatically invalidates any fun with traditional controllers. For the past 20 years have you been avoiding gaming because you can't stand a game pad?

This is what irritates me about Wii fans.  All of a sudden, the Wiimote makes gamepads completely inferior, when it really has yet to deliver better control for the gamut of genres than a traditional gamepad.  There is not one Wii game I've played where I would have rather had the Wiimote than a traditional controller.  

I'm aware Rayman and Elebits could not have been done without the Wiimote or a "lightgun" instrument.  But every other game suffers because of the Wiimote, in my opinion. 

Riddle me this:
As you claim, wii games are in fact not fun, and are completely inferior to anyone with common sense who looks at them. Now here comes the big paradox in your logic... how did wii games end up scoring so high than?kittykatz5k

Who is this directed at? :? 

Wii is a weak console. Why do we want to play gamecube games twice on new hardware with non updated technology installed in it.

Wii= console of yesterday

Playstation00

Retro Forever. :3

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]the reason why nintendo is weak cus they want companys to make games fun . not good looking! to make good sales the game must be fun not just good lookingreaperstoll

You make the common failing point of wii fans, you assume games can't be fun if they aren't on the wii. GEoW sold well in part because it looks good graphically, but there is also an element of fun to the game that means many people buy it. Don't assume that just because the wii has the new controller that automatically invalidates any fun with traditional controllers. For the past 20 years have you been avoiding gaming because you can't stand a game pad? 

Wasn't fun for most people, less than 5 million bought it, not even half the 360's install base 

[QUOTE="reaperstoll"]

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]the reason why nintendo is weak cus they want companys to make games fun . not good looking! to make good sales the game must be fun not just good lookingrykaziel

You make the common failing point of wii fans, you assume games can't be fun if they aren't on the wii. GEoW sold well in part because it looks good graphically, but there is also an element of fun to the game that means many people buy it. Don't assume that just because the wii has the new controller that automatically invalidates any fun with traditional controllers. For the past 20 years have you been avoiding gaming because you can't stand a game pad?

This is what irritates me about Wii fans.  All of a sudden, the Wiimote makes gamepads completely inferior, when it really has yet to deliver better control for the gamut of genres than a traditional gamepad.  There is not one Wii game I've played where I would have rather had the Wiimote than a traditional controller.  

I'm aware Rayman and Elebits could not have been done without the Wiimote or a "lightgun" instrument.  But every other game suffers because of the Wiimote, in my opinion. 

I think of it like this.  Wii gamers get the equivelant of "Anchorman" or "Napolean dynamite."  While everyone else gets the "Babel's" and "28 Weeks later" of videogaming.iamwaffle

Wrong, GTA, GeOW, DMC, FF, etc. are not anywhere near the qaulity of a movie like Babel, those are die hards and terminators etc. 

I think of it like this.  Wii gamers get the equivelant of "Anchorman" or "Napolean dynamite."  While everyone else gets the "Babel's" and "28 Weeks later" of videogaming.iamwaffle

I honestly don't see a reason to buy one until SMG, MP3, and SSBB come out. Everything on it right now just feels so shallow to me. That's why I don't own one.Sooshy

Thanks for the update 

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots? You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track.

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite. I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry. Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys. I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form. An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Wow...Panda for President! 

Wii is a weak console. Why do we want to play gamecube games twice on new hardware with non updated technology installed in it.

Wii= console of yesterday

Playstation00

typical response from someone with PS or playstation in there name. 

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

this is gunna be the first compliment ive made on this forum but i do enjoy reading your posts sir always a good read :)

i do hope that developers do chuck in some final touchs to games or whatever there lacking as it just seems at the mo with games like spiderman and there was a few on launch that just looked...well wrose then PS2. 

Theres alot of games im looking forward to this year on wii thou and i do hope they end up good (counted 12 on a recent forum post of 2007 games)

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience 

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots? You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track.

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite. I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry. Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys. I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form. An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

Not exactly how I would phrase it, but again I agree with the core idea.  To video games have so much potential to become a bone fide means of expression, yet Nintendo seems intent on relegating them to the status of simple diversions.  Whether or not Nintendo's philosophy will affect the entire industry is up for debate, but I'm most definitely not a fan.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.axt113

Gamings roots? You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track.

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite. I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry. Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys. I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form. An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience

He is saying that Nintendo is lowering the bar by letting the games be the way they are. The bar at the time of those consoles were not as high as todays bar. You fail I believe. 

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

The Wiimote is just 80's? Besides Nintendo said themselves that their next system will be more focused on advancing the graphics.

[QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.jfkunrendered

Gamings roots? You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track.

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite. I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry. Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys. I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form. An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience

He is saying that Nintendo is lowering the bar by letting the games be the way they are. The bar at the time of those consoles were not as high as todays bar. You fail I believe. 

If you think games like DMC, and GeOW etc. compare to fallout and Deus ex, etc. the older classics,

 you must be a new gamer or a child, seriously, the power of the consoles do not dictate the quality of the game,

go back and educate youself on classic gaming

If at any point in time you make a thread that you feel will change how the world outside this forum thinks...Please refrain from posting.

If at any point in time you make a thread that you think will change how people on this forum think....Spend some more time in the real world.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.axt113

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience 

You make a warped assumption that hardware and graphical quality have a inverse porportional relationship with graphics.  I hate to tell you this, but graphics and hardware quality share a direct relationship with the quality of a game experience (the extent of which we can debate).

Could you really tell me that a 1940's "Oh crap, Play-Dough Dinosaur Attacking People" movie carried as strong as most people feel while watching a modern dinosaur movie like Jurassic Park?  Graphics are a vital factor in games and can depict a whole range of new ideas, or simply augment emotions through epic and surreal imagery.  Graphics are not everything, but they have an enormous value.

Most Nintendo fans have reordered their value systems, to rationalize their support for a company who has supplied them with an inferior product, so they come to devalue a concept like graphics, or they explicitly limit the function of gaming to little more than a child's play thing -- mediocre games are elevated to the pinnacle of the industry and seen as good games.

But step back, and view these games from the perspective of all this generation has to offer us in terms of innovation, technology, depth, and quality. 

Nintendo games fall shorter of the bar than any other games, nine times out of ten.

I have the wii and u know why i dont like it right now

NO GOOD GAMES

and no ONLINE GAMES !!!!!!!

THats all i got to say

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.CJL13

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

The Wiimote is just 80's? Besides Nintendo said themselves that their next system will be more focused on advancing the graphics.

I like the Wiimote, but I do not consider it an innovation within itself.  Let me explain:

1. Input should not be considered a form of CONSOLE innovation when USB devices can allow developers, if consoles would only support USB technology, to design games around the form of input that best suits their games.  The Wiimote made provide fun control for some types of games, but it provides terrible and counter-intuitive control for other types.
2. Input, unlike something that has easily identifiable max and limitation, is strictly a matter of personal preference.  I hate analog sticks with such a passion that I'd chose to use the wiimote over them, any day of the week.  But at the same time, I understand that the function of input is to simply provide the most intuitive and direct form of input possible.  Wiimote has failed to provide a universal "improved" benchmark in terms of control.  You might enjoy using it, but it isn't exactly an innovative progression in input.

Even if the Wiimote could be considered a form of innovation within itself, the way it is being used is the most wasteful, demeaning, and petty way possible.

[QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.FoamingPanda

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience 

You make a warped assumption that hardware and graphical quality have a inverse porportional relationship with graphics.  I hate to tell you this, but graphics and hardware quality share a direct relationship with the quality of a game experience (the extent of which we can debate).

Could you really tell me that a 1940's "Oh crap, Play-Dough Dinosaur Attacking People" movie carried as strong as most people feel while watching a modern dinosaur movie like Jurassic Park?  Graphics are a vital factor in games and can depict a whole range of new ideas, or simply augment emotions through epic and surreal imagery.  Graphics are not everything, but they have an enormous value.

Most Nintendo fans have reordered their value systems, to rationalize their support for a company who has supplied them with an inferior product, so they come to devalue a concept like graphics, or they explicitly limit the function of gaming to little more than a child's play thing -- mediocre games are elevated to the pinnacle of the industry and seen as good games.

But step back, and view these games from the perspective of all this generation has to offer us in terms of innovation, technology, depth, and quality. 

Nintendo games fall shorter of the bar than any other games, nine times out of ten.

Graphics have only up to a certain point, you bring up the comparison of a 1950's movie to a modern day film like Jurrassic park, 

but forget to note that Jurassic Park was entirely a special effects flick, now on a movie that isn't dependant on its special

effects, but its story you've got a totally

different result, the movies of the past hold up quite well, when the basis of their quality wasn't based on special effect, its why a movie like Casablnca is still popular decades after its release, so no I don't agree that the modern games are that good, in fact they seem driven by their graphics more than the quality of their gameplay, GeOW with out its graphics would be nothing 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.axt113

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience 

You make a warped assumption that hardware and graphical quality have a inverse porportional relationship with graphics.  I hate to tell you this, but graphics and hardware quality share a direct relationship with the quality of a game experience (the extent of which we can debate).

Could you really tell me that a 1940's "Oh crap, Play-Dough Dinosaur Attacking People" movie carried as strong as most people feel while watching a modern dinosaur movie like Jurassic Park?  Graphics are a vital factor in games and can depict a whole range of new ideas, or simply augment emotions through epic and surreal imagery.  Graphics are not everything, but they have an enormous value.

Most Nintendo fans have reordered their value systems, to rationalize their support for a company who has supplied them with an inferior product, so they come to devalue a concept like graphics, or they explicitly limit the function of gaming to little more than a child's play thing -- mediocre games are elevated to the pinnacle of the industry and seen as good games.

But step back, and view these games from the perspective of all this generation has to offer us in terms of innovation, technology, depth, and quality. 

Nintendo games fall shorter of the bar than any other games, nine times out of ten.

Graphics have only up to a certain point, you bring up the comparison of a 1950's movie to a modern day film like Jurrassic park, 

but forget to note that Jurassic Park was entirely a special effects flick, now on a movie that isn't dependant on its special

effects, but its story you've got a totally

different result, the movies of the past hold up quite well, when the basis of their quality wasn't based on special effect, its why a movie like Casablnca is still popular decades after its release, so no I don't agree that the modern games are that good, in fact they seem driven by their graphics more than the quality of their gameplay, GeOW with out its graphics would be nothing 

A horror game or movie without convincing sources of terror is meaningless.  Thus the analogy between the 1940s dino flick and JP.  However, look at what Bioware is bringing to the table with a massive galaxy to explore, animation and facial movements that make characters seem lifelike and significant.  Nearly impossible on last gen hardware on the scope and scale ME is being done.

A better example is Splinter Cell.  Its gameplay is HEAVILY dependent on the graphics it produces.  Without soft and dynamic shadows, there would be only line-of-sight stealth.

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

 Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

THey COUld have!! , and because they didn't and want to market to "everyone" , You guys suffer with mediocre ports, last-gen graphics, Friend codes, and Shoddy implementation of the wiimote...

Gameplay and graphics are supposed to evolve together. EVERyTHING is relative. You can't say graphics dont matter just because Zelda was excellent on NES.. that was the technology available at that time.

and theres new technology now, and nintendo isnt using it. sad. at least IMO

[QUOTE="iamwaffle"]I think of it like this.  Wii gamers get the equivelant of "Anchorman" or "Napolean dynamite."  While everyone else gets the "Babel's" and "28 Weeks later" of videogaming.axt113

Wrong, GTA, GeOW, DMC, FF, etc. are not anywhere near the qaulity of a movie like Babel, those are die hards and terminators etc. 

I was talking about Mass Effect, Half Life, and the TEAM ICO game.  On par or above the quality of Babel. 

Those games you singled out are in fact the big budget stuff that don't bring a compelling and moving experience.

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

springz300

Didn't you know?  If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore and not a "true gamer".  :roll:

[QUOTE="springz300"]

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

Teufelhuhn

Didn't you know?  If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore and not a "true gamer".  :roll:

Just like how if you don't think graphics are all that important, you're just brainwashed into thinking that :roll:

[QUOTE="springz300"]

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

Teufelhuhn

Didn't you know?  If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore.

Fixed 

[QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]

In a sense, Nintendo is going back to videogaming's roots. I think that these videogames give a testament to the programmer.iamwaffle

Gamings roots?  You speak as if an entertainment medium exercised its full potential back in the 80's. You overlook the fact that games were only simple back in the 80's because technology could not even contemplate rendering things like a baseball arena full of fans, a huge boxing arena, or a really nice race track. 

We have the ability to render truely incredible things now -- we have the technology to present ideas that are as grand, complex, and entertaining as any other entertainment medium.

But Nintendo is supplying us with a console and games that do the exact opposite.  I think these games are the single most regressive force in this industry.  Nintendo isn't doing what you accuse them of doing, which is quite accurate, for the good and advancement of gamers and the industry -- they're lowering your standards, and the quality of games, because it's cheap and can be marketed to an audience who comes to understand that games are only simple little toys.  I believe, as I posted in a recent rhread, that Nintendo has simply re-defined their fans standards and caused a fundamental reordering in value when it comes to video games.

They are butchering the function of gaming back to its most primitive, shallow, and linear form.  An individual may enjoy simple games, but these games should not come to define an entertainment medium, nor should they be hailed as the best products this generation has to offer consumers.

 

Gotta disagree, some of the best storeis in games have been told on hardware even weaker than the Wii, Fallout, Deus ex, etc., your argument fails because you believe that only powerful hardware can deliver a truly great experience 

You make a warped assumption that hardware and graphical quality have a inverse porportional relationship with graphics.  I hate to tell you this, but graphics and hardware quality share a direct relationship with the quality of a game experience (the extent of which we can debate).

Could you really tell me that a 1940's "Oh crap, Play-Dough Dinosaur Attacking People" movie carried as strong as most people feel while watching a modern dinosaur movie like Jurassic Park?  Graphics are a vital factor in games and can depict a whole range of new ideas, or simply augment emotions through epic and surreal imagery.  Graphics are not everything, but they have an enormous value.

Most Nintendo fans have reordered their value systems, to rationalize their support for a company who has supplied them with an inferior product, so they come to devalue a concept like graphics, or they explicitly limit the function of gaming to little more than a child's play thing -- mediocre games are elevated to the pinnacle of the industry and seen as good games.

But step back, and view these games from the perspective of all this generation has to offer us in terms of innovation, technology, depth, and quality. 

Nintendo games fall shorter of the bar than any other games, nine times out of ten.

Graphics have only up to a certain point, you bring up the comparison of a 1950's movie to a modern day film like Jurrassic park, 

but forget to note that Jurassic Park was entirely a special effects flick, now on a movie that isn't dependant on its special

effects, but its story you've got a totally

different result, the movies of the past hold up quite well, when the basis of their quality wasn't based on special effect, its why a movie like Casablnca is still popular decades after its release, so no I don't agree that the modern games are that good, in fact they seem driven by their graphics more than the quality of their gameplay, GeOW with out its graphics would be nothing 

A horror game or movie without convincing sources of terror is meaningless.  Thus the analogy between the 1940s dino flick and JP.  However, look at what Bioware is bringing to the table with a massive galaxy to explore, animation and facial movements that make characters seem lifelike and significant.  Nearly impossible on last gen hardware on the scope and scale ME is being done.

A better example is Splinter Cell.  Its gameplay is HEAVILY dependent on the graphics it produces.  Without soft and dynamic shadows, there would be only line-of-sight stealth.

Again even then why is the Shining one of the best horror films, even though it has none of the modern special effects?  Because graphics and special effects only matter to a point 

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="springz300"]

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

SER69

Didn't you know?  If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore.

Fixed 

So the sheep who drooled over RE4 are.....

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="springz300"]

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

kittykatz5k

Didn't you know?  If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore and not a "true gamer".  :roll:

Just like how if you don't think graphics are all that important, you're just brainwashed into thinking that :roll:

 how are we brainwashed?? ever since the beginning of gaming graphics ADVANCE. not remain STAGNANT..

i swear u wii fans are so funny

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"][QUOTE="springz300"]

Wii fans act like just because a game has excellent graphics the game cant have GOOD gameplay. wth???

Guys its OKAY to want THIS GEN Graphics... You act like nintendo couldnt just put in ps3/360 level graphics AND motion sensing.

kittykatz5k

Didn't you know? If you enjoy graphics, it means you're a graphics whore and not a "true gamer". :roll:

Just like how if you don't think graphics are all that important, you're just brainwashed into thinking that :roll:

But they are important.  I don't even see how that point is up for debate.  Graphics are the primary means by which games interact with us.   Aside from rumble, they're the sole source of feedback we rely on when playing games.  They may not be as important for some games, but they're an important part of great games.  

[QUOTE="axt113"]

[QUOTE="iamwaffle"]I think of it like this.  Wii gamers get the equivelant of "Anchorman" or "Napolean dynamite."  While everyone else gets the "Babel's" and "28 Weeks later" of videogaming.iamwaffle

Wrong, GTA, GeOW, DMC, FF, etc. are not anywhere near the qaulity of a movie like Babel, those are die hards and terminators etc. 

I was talking about Mass Effect, Half Life, and the TEAM ICO game.  On par or above the quality of Babel. 

Those games you singled out are in fact the big budget stuff that don't bring a compelling and moving experience.