Will MS' Natal and Sony's 'Arc' be a success?

Well, Sony's Motion Controller and Microsoft's Project Natal will go head to head with each other and try to take Wii's audience...

For the past few months, media have been predicting and speculating both of the accessories, whether it will be a success or how big is their game library. Michael Patcher even predict Natal will outsell PS3 'Arc' 5-to-1. I might agree with him with the Natal will outsell PS3, even though I can't predict the figures. But for 1 thing though, will both of them be a success? For me, I don't think so and I don't really like the idea of motion control in these two consoles.

The reason is because I can't imagine playing hardcore games using Natal or Arc. Yes, playing casual games using the Wiimote is fun, but I don't like the idea of playing Gears of War, Halo, Uncharted, Killzone, Resident Evil, Assassin's Creed 2 and other games by jumping up and down, moving forward and backward at my living room...

What do you guys think about those controllers? Traditional controllers? Arc? or Natal?

I personally don't expect either to be much of a success. I just don't see people going out in large numbers to buy these things. Unless they do something completely unexpected and spectacular, I expect them to be yet another gimmick in gaming's long history of gimmick devices. Waste of money IMO.

History says a resounding NO. Famicom Disk Drive, Sega CD, Sega 32x, N64 DD. Add ons of this magnitude should be a new system. You're dividing the market anyway, and devs are more receptive to a new generation.

I see more potential for natal in becoming a success, though thats not saying much, and as someone else mentioned, addons rarely become successes and should have been released as a new system in the first place

Natal will be a success because it can be used out of gaming

Natal looks crappy and gimicky and the motion controller is another gouging of PS3 owners who have arleady had to buy a rumble controller. There was no need for either, its just a sad attempt by both to cash in on Nintendo's success. Look if PS3 & 360 owners wanted a Wii they'd buy one. In all reality I'll buy Natal to mess around with and then like my Wii it will gather dust.

Far from a success and very idiotic to release it years after the consoles launches.

Definitely should've waited until next gen

Natal looks crappy and gimicky and the motion controller is another gouging of PS3 owners who have arleady had to buy a rumble controller. There was no need for either, its just a sad attempt buy both to cash in on Nintendo's success. Look if PS3 & 360 owners wanted a Wii they'd buy one. In all reality I'll buy Natal to mess around with and then like my Wii it will gather dust.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Natal looks crappy and gimicky and the motion controller is another gouging of PS3 owners who have arleady had to buy a rumble controller. There was no need for either, its just a sad attempt buy both to cash in on Nintendo's success. Look if PS3 & 360 owners wanted a Wii they'd buy one. In all reality I'll buy Natal to mess around with and then like my Wii it will gather dust.tikki25x

I think both will be useless.Omzzz

Arc - no

Natal - we'll see.

Basically Natal is heavily dependant on outside developers. Not only their support, but their ingenuity also. Considering that only 1 major developer has reportedly jumped on the Natal wagon (Lionhead), and 2 major MS supporters have declined involvement (valve, and bungie have said no natal for now) it's likely everybody will be holding off natal development, and it'll fail through no fault of its own. Personally I think it has tons of potential. MS is good at making development tools easy for developers, and the ideas behind the whole thing is awesome. Depending on the amount of detail in the motion it can capture the possibilities are amazing.

I think with the amount of support Natal is getting it will achieve some success however I don't see "Arc" really going anywhere.

[QUOTE="tikki25x"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Natal looks crappy and gimicky and the motion controller is another gouging of PS3 owners who have arleady had to buy a rumble controller. There was no need for either, its just a sad attempt buy both to cash in on Nintendo's success. Look if PS3 & 360 owners wanted a Wii they'd buy one. In all reality I'll buy Natal to mess around with and then like my Wii it will gather dust.blue_hazy_basic

Nope ... they'll fail like 99.9% of peripherals that has ever released.

The nature of Natal does basically limit the kinds of games it could be used in. Arc is a bit more practical in that sense. And titles like Metroid Prime 3 show that you can can effectively combine motion controls with serious gameplay.

i love how everyone says they will fail when they are basically doing the exact same thing that the wii has been doing to syphon money from children and seniors.mtradr43

No, there is a critical difference with the Wii: It came with the Wiimote standard. If you want to push a new controller, this is the best way to do it. Historically controllers (and most accessories in general) that came after the console were almost never properly supported.

It depends on the software support and price. If it can reach the quality and quantity, it can be considered a success. The Natal can be used outside of gaming so I'm more interested in that. I don't like using motion controls for gaming.

I reckon they will fail. Nothing but an attempt at competing with the Wiimote and I hated that. Found myself switching to a classic controller for any game that took any sort of accurate inputs.

first. i think natal should be pronounced "Natel". instead its pronounced natale..like isspanish or something. thats a bit dumb.

as for success... i think it will sell ok but not like the wii.i really have no idea on how casuals will take to it.

i really hope both dont become a success because its cool to do motion controls now but before this was announced everybody hated motion controls just for general purpose

The nature of Natal does basically limit the kinds of games it could be used in. Arc is a bit more practical in that sense. And titles like Metroid Prime 3 show that you can can effectively combine motion controls with serious gameplay.

[QUOTE="mtradr43"]i love how everyone says they will fail when they are basically doing the exact same thing that the wii has been doing to syphon money from children and seniors.ThePlothole

No, there is a critical difference with the Wii: It came with the Wiimote standard. If you want to push a new controller, this is the best way to do it. Historically controllers (and most accessories in general) that came after the console were almost never properly supported.

Project Natal is not oging to be just limited to the Xbox360 and games btw.

I've never been one for gimmick peripherals (eye toy type of things) but i can imagine definite use for Natal, not as a primary control system but as more of a support role.

I'd like to see games like Mass Effect where with convo choices you could say the first word in the sentence or maybe two words to begin the reply instead of using the controller and choice "wheel" thingy. Or in game options and menus activated and manipulated by hand gestures and voice. Imagine an RTS run totally on hand gestures and voice (Minority Report kinda gestures if ya get my meaning).

If they focus on uses like that for games that wouldnt work with primary Natal control i'd be very happy and would definitely use it (if it can do all that).

No, there is a critical difference with the Wii: It came with the Wiimote standard. If you want to push a new controller, this is the best way to do it. Historically controllers (and most accessories in general) that came after the console were almost never properly supported.ThePlothole

That's definitely one concern. Personally, I believe both will fail. Arc is a better product than Natal, but what I've seen of Sony's strategy, it's the second-worst possible approach to try tackling a disruptor like Nintendo. They're basically just slapping the Arc on the PS3, going all "now we have motion controls too, and better graphics! How's that for winning it?". Sadly, people only buy hardware for the software, and Sony's general mindset is largely unsuitable for making big Expanded Audience hits.

Microsoft will probably take a wiser approach: They'll rebrand the Xbox and package Natal with the new SKU, essentially trying to co-opt Nintendo's disruption. They even tried to one-up Nintendo on the new, disruptive values that they brought into the industry instead of just copycatting them and relying on graphics to win (relying on graphics is a bad idea - the Wii was made as weak as it was precisely because the general public doesn't see value in HD graphics).

Microsoft has two problems: First, Natal will likely end up being a bad product for controlling anything but menus and the very simplistic games they've shown in the demos. I'm not convinced about the latency issues being solved, either. Second, and more importantly: People buy hardware for the software, and Microsoft's first party is crap. It'll be excruciatingly difficult for them to come up with a hit on the level of Wii Sports - and both Sony and MS are going to need one if they hope to have the slightest amount of success.

Project Natal is not going to be just limited to the Xbox360 and games btw.

AdmiralBison

True. But since we are on a gaming forum, it's only natural to focus on this particular usage.

Umm, though I think it will be even more niche on the PC. Nothing in the way of new control methods has ever really caught on there since the mouse. I suppose touch screens a becoming a little more popular now... but look how long that technology has been around in comparison.

History says a resounding NO. Famicom Disk Drive, Sega CD, Sega 32x, N64 DD. Add ons of this magnitude should be a new system. You're dividing the market anyway, and devs are more receptive to a new generation.

Jamisonia

I think they will both sell well enough. The Wii despite all the short comings mentioned on here has outsold the PS3 2-1 and 360 is only about 6 million better off so there is an obvious demand for motion controls. I think the natal controls can offer more as it can still be used with the standard controller, where PS3 Arc can only be used on its own. Natal also should work with your PC so a 2 for 1 bonus especially with peeps who use computer as an HTPC.

[QUOTE="Jamisonia"]

History says a resounding NO. Famicom Disk Drive, Sega CD, Sega 32x, N64 DD. Add ons of this magnitude should be a new system. You're dividing the market anyway, and devs are more receptive to a new generation.

PandaBear86

And how many games actually required the DualShock or Expansion Pak? Not many. In the former's case most games simply let you use the left analog stick in place of the d-pad (often without any real "analog" input). In fact the DualShock probably wouldn't have been as "successful" had Sony not bundled it with later PlayStations. The expansion pak was something developer's could easily implement optionally... it was just RAM! And what actually sold the thing was probably Nintendo's three punch combo (DK64, Majora's Mask, and Perfect Dark).

Okay, through all that rambling my point is developers hate employing something that the console owner isn't guaranteed to have. Unless they can make it completely optional and it doesn't take much time or effort to implement.

I have been thinking heavily all the ins, outs and possiblities on how Natal will actually be good and practical and im sorry im just not thinking of anything. I mean how can Devs make games for this thing? I personally see a disaster for natal due to devs not knowing how or what the hell to make with this thing.

I think the Arc will be a big hit among all type of different gamers.. At E3 last year Sony showed several examples where the Arc could really work well in games from Shooters, to action adventure games. Like how he used the bow and arrow or how you can use a flashlight.

I can think of a number of possiblities how the arc could work and work well and it would be so much easier for devs to make worthwhile games for the arc. I mean MLB10 right off the start is one game that could be used with the ARC and work well and also games like GOW3.

I mean just think about all the genres out there.. ok FPS, no way in hell you can play a real FPS with natal.. How would you walk, shoot, jump etc etc? Ok racing yea i could kind of see that but that would be extremely tiring after a few mins, heck i get tired after 30 mins using the 360 wheel for Forza 3. Ok fighting games, i mean seroiusly.. do you think your average hardcore Tekken and Street fighter gamers are going to put hours into a game where you constantly have to move your body?

Natal will be good for strickly casual party games.. Maybe some kind of basketball game, that dodgeball game they already showed.. That game where you paint zoo animals on a "wall" other than that i see it being completly pointless for practical gaming.

With the arc you have a lot more potential?

@Kennysolidsnake:
That's basically my thinking. It's been demonstrated that the Arc can function... well, pretty much the same way the Wiimote does for shooter and action games. The "pseudo-lightgun" effect that generally works quite well. I don't see how Natal could emulate this.

i think they will do well . Controllers we have now are very limited . I think that next gen it may even get rid of k and m controls for fps and rts .

@Kennysolidsnake

I think you may be missing some of the points that Natal can offer that the Wii or PS3 remotes cant. I think Natal will be marketed as an enhancement and not a replacement control method for all games.Im gonna make a few suggestions for things, some related to gaming and im sure some will not be to all tastes. The casual market is big business as the Wii and DS prove and make no mistake, Natal and Arc are aimed at it.

1. Natal can obviously be used for Keep Fit applications, it also offers the possibilityfor boxing training or martial arts(as keep fit basis)

2. Natal could be used to allow you to edit photos on photoshop type apps.

3. Natal could be used to allow better custom paint jobs for Forza 4. Print a template out and pick your design, natal scans it in.

4. No headsets required for games, voice controlled responses

5. Rockband Guitar Hero could make music videos or allow you and your friends to appear on stage

I think the main benefit Natal offers is that you can still use your controller and have it offer enhancements for the games. Will Halo or Gears of War, Uncharted or MGS use motion controls as primary control? Not a chance, they may allow exclusive features though.

2. Natal could be used to allow you to edit photos on photoshop type apps.

ccagracing

Oy vey, even a mouse is really inaddiquate for that sort of stuff. I guess you could do very basic editing with gestures... :?

4. No headsets required for games, voice controlled responses

ccagracing

That is somewhat contingent on how well Natal can isolate voices from background noise. Now voice recognition I am potentially quite excited for.

I think the main benefit Natal offers is that you can still use your controller and have it offer enhancements for the games. Will Halo or Gears of War, Uncharted or MGS use motion controls as primary control? Not a chance, they may allow exclusive features though.

ccagracing

Still, the fact that the Wiimote and Arc can work as the primary controls for types of games is something worth pointing out. Even if Natal has notable advantages of its own (and it will be interesting to see if more conventional games explore some of these).

Depends on the support.

The issue is that both of these are peripherals where as the Wiimote is integral to using the Wii, as in, you have no other choice. So when development teams make something for the Wii, the Wiimote is front and center. Natal and the Arc can be avoided for the more traditional route...

In my honest opinion Natal will go the way of the Eyetoy and the Arc just won't have the support.

Although, I'm really hoping Natal does work because I want to be able to play a hardcore game using it. Imagine a Halo or a Gears where I'm acting it out.. although I think Natal will never get to that point, here's to hoping.

Although, I'm really hoping Natal does work because I want to be able to play a hardcore game using it. Imagine a Halo or a Gears where I'm acting it out.. although I think Natal will never get to that point, here's to hoping.

sonic_spark

How would you control your character's movements? Look up or down? Switch guns/grenades? Toggle the flashlight?

I personally don't expect either to be much of a success. I just don't see people going out in large numbers to buy these things. Unless they do something completely unexpected and spectacular, I expect them to be yet another gimmick in gaming's long history of gimmick devices. Waste of money IMO.

myke2010

I could be way off the mark on this but is natal not the same as the Eyetoy for PS2 and PS3?dezzyfiesta

Not quite. They are similar in that they use camera technology. However the EyeToy/PSEye is a fairly ordinary webcam device. Natal actually has two cameras. One sees visible light, while the other captures near-infrared light. From what I understand it is the latter that does all the tracking. Natal also has an infrared emitter to "bathe" the player, making them stand out better from the background and so the system can work in a dark room.