Wouldn't a slim 360 make problems worse?

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

ktrotter11

32nm processors

new and much improved heat sink

big cooler master fan on the heat sink

cpu/gpu near the end of the console instead of in the middle

=

much much better cooling & airflow

hell at 32nm i wouldn't expect the cpu/gpu to put off much heat altogether, the extra steps taken should ensure reliability

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

ktrotter11

Smaller CPU, smaller GPU..makes less heat/////thread.

This is just baseless speculation until we actually get to see what kind of hardware it is running. With a smaller manufacture process, better cooling and obviously the source of the original issue; better adhesive, a Slim could actually prevent a lot of the issues with over-heating. Just remember, smaller =/= more constricted airflow. In many cases it means there is less space for confined heat to build up and makes it easier to push out exhaust air.

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

crusadernm

Smaller CPU, smaller GPU..makes less heat/////thread.

I highly doubt that MS would screw a slim up , I don't think their bottomline would be very healthy with another round of RROD. If this is true about a slim 360 , I expect MS to be doing alot more testing this time around

[QUOTE="88mphSlayer"]

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

32nm processors

new and much improved heat sink

big cooler master fan on the heat sink

cpu/gpu near the end of the console instead of in the middle

=

much much better cooling & airflow

hell at 32nm i wouldn't expect the cpu/gpu to put off much heat altogether, the extra steps taken should ensure reliability

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

ktrotter11

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

ktrotter11

OK, basically, this thread pretty much shows the widespread ignorance about the RROD, it can be caused by overheating yes, but the problem itself is not primarily about heat.

The problem that lead to widespread failure rates in the launch 360's was because the type of solder that was used in the manufacturing of 360's at many of the plants became brittle and separated from the motherboard when it got too hot, and the board warped away from it because it was not properly attached. This is why some people have had multiple failures and some have launch systems still going strong.

This problem was fixed in the first console redesign, The zephyr, not the falcon, not the Japer, the Zephyr. This is also why things like the towel trick and after market cpu clamps will fix RROD'd consoles with no other problems.

So, just to sum up, RROD is caused by the CPU becoming separated from the motherboard because of bad solder and warping, while this is caused by heat, the heat is not the reason for the failure.

Oh, and yes, it is possible for newer consoles to get 3 red lights, it is not the same problem as the launch consoles had, and it is not as widespread.

OK, basically, this thread pretty much shows the widespread ignorance about the RROD, it can be caused by overheating yes, but the problem itself is not primarily about heat.

The problem that lead to widespread failure rates in the launch 360's was because the type of solder that was used in the manufacturing of 360's at many of the plants became brittle and separated from the motherboard when it got too hot, and the board warped away from it because it was not properly attached. This is why some people have had multiple failures and some have launch systems still going strong.

This problem was fixed in the first console redesign, The zephyr, not the falcon, not the Japer, the Zephyr. This is also why things like the towel trick and after market cpu clamps will fix RROD'd consoles with no other problems.

So, just to sum up, RROD is caused by the CPU becoming separated from the motherboard because of bad solder and warping, while this is caused by heat, the heat is not the reason for the failure.

iamdanthaman

I dont understand.. How is this going to be a problem at all? The heat problem was a design flaw in the original 360 design.... SO... if they redesign it.. to get RID of that problem, which shouldnt be hard at all because its 6 year old technology, why would it be a problem? I dont get it

OK, basically, this thread pretty much shows the widespread ignorance about the RROD, it can be caused by overheating yes, but the problem itself is not primarily about heat.

The problem that lead to widespread failure rates in the launch 360's was because the type of solder that was used in the manufacturing of 360's at many of the plants became brittle and separated from the motherboard when it got too hot, and the board warped away from it because it was not properly attached. This is why some people have had multiple failures and some have launch systems still going strong.

This problem was fixed in the first console redesign, The zephyr, not the falcon, not the Japer, the Zephyr. This is also why things like the towel trick and after market cpu clamps will fix RROD'd consoles with no other problems.

So, just to sum up, RROD is caused by the CPU becoming separated from the motherboard because of bad solder and warping, while this is caused by heat, the heat is not the reason for the failure.

Oh, and yes, it is possible for newer consoles to get 3 red lights, it is not the same problem as the launch consoles had, and it is not as widespread.

iamdanthaman

[QUOTE="iamdanthaman"]

OK, basically, this thread pretty much shows the widespread ignorance about the RROD, it can be caused by overheating yes, but the problem itself is not primarily about heat.

The problem that lead to widespread failure rates in the launch 360's was because the type of solder that was used in the manufacturing of 360's at many of the plants became brittle and separated from the motherboard when it got too hot, and the board warped away from it because it was not properly attached. This is why some people have had multiple failures and some have launch systems still going strong.

This problem was fixed in the first console redesign, The zephyr, not the falcon, not the Japer, the Zephyr. This is also why things like the towel trick and after market cpu clamps will fix RROD'd consoles with no other problems.

So, just to sum up, RROD is caused by the CPU becoming separated from the motherboard because of bad solder and warping, while this is caused by heat, the heat is not the reason for the failure.

DropTarget

they could be making a more effecient cooling system. and the 360 slim is rumoured to be using 32nm chips meaning less heat than the current 360. they'll move the CPU so that its not directly under the DVD drive, I doubt they'll just slap it together like the launch console, and the cooling system is now a lot closer to the CPU (directly above it actually)[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

[QUOTE="88mphSlayer"]

32nm processors

new and much improved heat sink

big cooler master fan on the heat sink

cpu/gpu near the end of the console instead of in the middle

=

much much better cooling & airflow

hell at 32nm i wouldn't expect the cpu/gpu to put off much heat altogether, the extra steps taken should ensure reliability

mayceV

the leaked picture was from the same people that leaked the ps3 slim

nobody believed the ps3 slim, they all said it was fake, etc.... then Kaz walks out with it, oh snap it's the one in the pictures whoda thunk it?

as for the heatsink/fan deal what's important isn't that they use that exact setup but that the configuration is 10000x better than the current configuration

[QUOTE="DropTarget"]

[QUOTE="iamdanthaman"]

OK, basically, this thread pretty much shows the widespread ignorance about the RROD, it can be caused by overheating yes, but the problem itself is not primarily about heat.

The problem that lead to widespread failure rates in the launch 360's was because the type of solder that was used in the manufacturing of 360's at many of the plants became brittle and separated from the motherboard when it got too hot, and the board warped away from it because it was not properly attached. This is why some people have had multiple failures and some have launch systems still going strong.

This problem was fixed in the first console redesign, The zephyr, not the falcon, not the Japer, the Zephyr. This is also why things like the towel trick and after market cpu clamps will fix RROD'd consoles with no other problems.

So, just to sum up, RROD is caused by the CPU becoming separated from the motherboard because of bad solder and warping, while this is caused by heat, the heat is not the reason for the failure.

mythrol

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="DropTarget"] Thank-you for taking the time to post that (and save me the trouble of typing something similar :) ). I simply cannot believe how many people think that still think it is overheating that causes the RRoD and still think it is a major problem.

iamdanthaman

Yes it will make the problems worse only if you have a misconception and have an ignorance on how a newer, more efficient technology works. :|:P

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

32nm processors

new and much improved heat sink

big cooler master fan on the heat sink

cpu/gpu near the end of the console instead of in the middle

=

much much better cooling & airflow

hell at 32nm i wouldn't expect the cpu/gpu to put off much heat altogether, the extra steps taken should ensure reliability

88mphSlayer

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

88mphSlayer

32nm processors

new and much improved heat sink

big cooler master fan on the heat sink

cpu/gpu near the end of the console instead of in the middle

=

much much better cooling & airflow

hell at 32nm i wouldn't expect the cpu/gpu to put off much heat altogether, the extra steps taken should ensure reliability

With all due respect, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. If the cpu's had been attatched properly, there would be no problem, no matter how much heat there was. And just because you have friends with zephyrs that failed means nothing. The failure rate dropped drastically when the zephyr was released. I could tell you that I have two friends with PS3's that exploded, but that does not indicate a trend.iamdanthaman

You confuse me for a PS3 fanboy. I am not. Otherwise, what was your point in mentioning the PS3? We're talking about the 360 revisions.

The CPU being attatched properly was NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem was the heatsink did not allow for proper heat dissipation, which in turn heated up the solder joints, which caused the solder to weaken and eventually break. Yes, had they had better solder joints the system would have been less likely to RROD. However as you pointed out, the solder joints were fixed with the Zyphere revision and yet RROD STILL HAPPENED. Which points to what? Heat dissipation issues.

This was drastically reduced in the Falcon revision with the CPU was dropped to 65nm, and completely eliminated with Jasper when they both dropped to 65nm. Zyphere was NOT the fix for RROD.

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

ktrotter11

[QUOTE="iamdanthaman"]With all due respect, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. If the cpu's had been attatched properly, there would be no problem, no matter how much heat there was. And just because you have friends with zephyrs that failed means nothing. The failure rate dropped drastically when the zephyr was released. I could tell you that I have two friends with PS3's that exploded, but that does not indicate a trend.mythrol

You confuse me for a PS3 fanboy. I am not. Otherwise, what was your point in mentioning the PS3? We're talking about the 360 revisions.

The CPU being attatched properly was NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem was the heatsink did not allow for proper heat dissipation, which in turn heated up the solder joints, which caused the solder to weaken and eventually break. Yes, had they had better solder joints the system would have been less likely to RROD. However as you pointed out, the solder joints were fixed with the Zyphere revision and yet RROD STILL HAPPENED. Which points to what? Heat dissipation issues.

This was drastically reduced in the Falcon revision with the CPU was dropped to 65nm, and completely eliminated with Jasper when they both dropped to 65nm. Zyphere was NOT the fix for RROD.

I dont know how there gonna do it but the 360 surly needs a make-over.

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

crusadernm

Smaller CPU, smaller GPU..makes less heat/////thread.

butit still hasa 12x DVD, and if you don't install your games, that beast will make a lot of heat.

but they're obviously going to put money into the cooling system, so it really wouldn't matter. a vent in the top would solve most of the DVD's heat.

well if thats the case from what im reading in this thread, why on earth did MS release such a crappy board design in the first place? They arent "noobs" when it comes to these things (i think). Fuhgeddabouditt

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

[QUOTE="ktrotter11"]

So with the new rumors going around of a slim 360 in the makings I had to think-

Wouldn't a slim version of the 360 amplify the heat problems that they took so long to iron out? If you think about it they wont be shrinking any of the dies of either the cpu are gpu because i believe they are already down to 45nm process on both, the power supply is already external, and the dvd drive has to be past its time of innovation. So what could they possibly do design wise to ensure that this move wont bring back the RROD phenomenom of recent pasts?

Please all of this is just going from a design standpoint has nothing to do with games or sales, etc.

HavocV3

Smaller CPU, smaller GPU..makes less heat/////thread.

butit still hasa 12x DVD, and if you don't install your games, that beast will make a lot of heat.

but they're obviously going to put money into the cooling system, so it really wouldn't matter. a vent in the top would solve most of the DVD's heat.

I have high hopes for the 360 "slim," to be honest.

MS are not stupid enough to fall for another mistake they did with early launch 360s.

I think they've made great strides for this generation, more than enough not to fck it all up (i could say the same for Sony).

It's really time for MS to ante up, especially with Natal around the corner.