Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will push 360 to the limit - EPIC GAMES

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

Epic Games producer Rod Fergusson believes that Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will wring every ounce of possible performance out of the Xbox 360:

"I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

hmmm hopefully we wont see the end of what consoles can do by thenstereointegrity

Most likely will be. 2011 will be when the 360 starts to slow down, and games start getting developed for the new Xbox.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

Epic Games producer Rod Fergusson believes that Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will wring every ounce of possible performance out of the Xbox 360:

"I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

aoshi_shinumori

So in other words, the Xbox 360 hasn't been maxed out yet.

Good to know for the legions of fanboys that tend to think it is around these parts...

Anyway, I think that's a good timeframe for it to start being maxed out. Even then, I'm willing to bet developers will find other ways to eke a bit more power out of the Xbox 360. After all, I don't believe there is one console in history that has ever truly been pushed to its absolute limits.

So in other words, the Xbox 360 hasn't been maxed out yet.

Good to know for the legions of fanboys that tend to think it is around these parts...

Anyway, I think that's a good timeframe for it to start being maxed out. Even then, I'm willing to bet developers will find other ways to eke a bit more power out of the Xbox 360. After all, I don't believe there is one console in history that has ever truly been pushed to its absolute limits.

The_Game21x

Pushing to the limits can cause instability, that's why they won't do it.

We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.loco145

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

And countless other games

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

So in other words, the Xbox 360 hasn't been maxed out yet.

Good to know for the legions of fanboys that tend to think it is around these parts...

Anyway, I think that's a good timeframe for it to start being maxed out. Even then, I'm willing to bet developers will find other ways to eke a bit more power out of the Xbox 360. After all, I don't believe there is one console in history that has ever truly been pushed to its absolute limits.

Espada12

Pushing to the limits can cause instability, that's why they won't do it.

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

Even Bioshock, Mass effect & a couple of others look better than Geow.... there are many games on 360 looking better...

Its good news though that 360 has still some potential left, shows its a powerful console... too bad devs always tend to utilise a console's true power in its final year...

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

It's an optical illusion. Gears Of War 1 does in fact look better than Gears Of War 2.

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Malta_1980

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

Even Bioshock, Mass effect & a couple of others look better than Geow.... there are many games on 360 looking better...

Its good news though that 360 has still some potential left, shows its a powerful console... too bad devs always tend to utilise a console's true power in its final year...

but I guess games tend to look better at the end of the generation because devs have to work hard to improve their engine and such. And devs tools getting better, more support from the console maker etc.

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Not-A-Stalker

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

It's an optical illusion. Gears Of War 1 does in fact look better than Gears Of War 2.

Developers learn how to work around the hardware better over time.

The hardware does not magically improve through "optimisation".

Fanboys love to pull the 'performance card'

Fact is Gears of War 1 is using just as much hardware as Gears of War 2.
Difference is with Gears of War 2 the developers have learns how to work around the hardware better.

The idea of 'squeezing more out of hardware' is an invention designed to make people think the hardware is still good. It isnt. Its aged and outdated, and developers have to think of better ideas to work with it.
Happens with every freaking console every gen.

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Not-A-Stalker

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

It's an optical illusion. Gears Of War 1 does in fact look better than Gears Of War 2.

Only in system wars...

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"][QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

It's an optical illusion. Gears Of War 1 does in fact look better than Gears Of War 2.

LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P

LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P Al3x_n90

It's an optical illusion.:P because it has the same setting

Gears 2 has more detail, more enemies on screen and more.

I agree the difference isn't THAT great, but it sure has improved over the first (from what I've seen).

[QUOTE="Al3x_n90"]LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P killerfist

It's an optical illusion.:P because it has the same setting

Gears 2 has more detail, more enemies on screen and more.

I agree the difference isn't THAT great, but it sure has improved over the first (from what I've seen).

OPTICAL ILLUSION

Well yeah it is improved but not by THAT much, that's wut i was saying :P

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="Al3x_n90"]LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P Al3x_n90

It's an optical illusion.:P because it has the same setting

Gears 2 has more detail, more enemies on screen and more.

I agree the difference isn't THAT great, but it sure has improved over the first (from what I've seen).

OPTICAL ILLUSION

Well yeah it is improved but not by THAT much, that's wut i was saying :P

Well you could at least wait until its released and you've played it before you make that assumption. Before Gears 1 was released, i had never seen any media of that rainy level. When i bought the game and played through it, that was the level that impressed me the most, it looked awesome. Could be a similar case with Gears 2.

[QUOTE="Al3x_n90"][QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="Al3x_n90"]LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P -DrRobotnik-

It's an optical illusion.:P because it has the same setting

Gears 2 has more detail, more enemies on screen and more.

I agree the difference isn't THAT great, but it sure has improved over the first (from what I've seen).

OPTICAL ILLUSION

Well yeah it is improved but not by THAT much, that's wut i was saying :P

Well you could at least wait until its released and you've played it before you make that assumption. Before Gears 1 was released, i had never seen any media of that rainy level. When i bought the game and played through it, that was the level that impressed me the most, it looked awesome. Could be a similar case with Gears 2.

Yeah...maybe :) who knows...

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Not-A-Stalker

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

It's an optical illusion. Gears Of War 1 does in fact look better than Gears Of War 2.

Just like the Michigan wolverines beating the Utah Utes, right?

It's a good thing none of us are Graphics whores. We don't need pretty pictures on our HD sets anyway.

I'm sure developers have a few more tricks of their sleeves for some shortcuts to get around

the processing limitations of the 360.

Just like the Michigan wolverines beating the Utah Utes, right?

AlphaGamer469

:( I never had high hopes for this season. The whole team was recruited with Lloyd Carrs offense in mind. The Spread Offense is radically different. Let Rich Rodriguez get the chance to recruit his own players for his own offense and we'll be back in the Rose Bowl every year again. It'll take a couple years for the Wolverines to get back in that winning form that the Wolverines have always been in.

Perfect timing as I want the new Xbox(720) to come out in 2010/2011FantasySports02

We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.loco145

Yeah, and we all know the PS3 will be maxed out with LBP:o ......idiot.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

Epic Games producer Rod Fergusson believes that Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will wring every ounce of possible performance out of the Xbox 360:

"I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

aoshi_shinumori

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

They look almost the same.

[QUOTE="FantasySports02"]Perfect timing as I want the new Xbox(720) to come out in 2010/2011angelkimne

microsoft has stated afew times that their wont be a new xbox untill 2012

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.loco145

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

They look almost the same.

I agree. If you remove the extra enemies on screen, take out the better particle and liquid effects, remove the more detailed Marcus character model and replace it with the old one, downgrade the lighting a little and draw in some more jaggies, Gears 2 looks identical to Gears 1.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Ninja-Hippo

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

They look almost the same.

I agree. If you remove the extra enemies on screen, take out the better particle and liquid effects, remove the more detailed Marcus character model and replace it with the old one, downgrade the lighting a little and draw in some more jaggies, Gears 2 looks identical to Gears 1.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.Ninja-Hippo

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

They look almost the same.

I agree. If you remove the extra enemies on screen, take out the better particle and liquid effects, remove the more detailed Marcus character model and replace it with the old one, downgrade the lighting a little and draw in some more jaggies, Gears 2 looks identical to Gears 1.

seriously...

[QUOTE="aoshi_shinumori"]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

Epic Games producer Rod Fergusson believes that Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will wring every ounce of possible performance out of the Xbox 360:

"I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

blackdreamhunk

[QUOTE="killerfist"]

[QUOTE="Al3x_n90"]LAWL, but you gotta admit the difference between Gear1 and 2 isn't that great :P Al3x_n90

It's an optical illusion.:P because it has the same setting

Gears 2 has more detail, more enemies on screen and more.

I agree the difference isn't THAT great, but it sure has improved over the first (from what I've seen).

OPTICAL ILLUSION

Well yeah it is improved but not by THAT much, that's wut i was saying :P

awesome illusion lol, but yeah Gears 2 looks better but not that much better, anyone who says it's the same needs to put on some glasses

[QUOTE="loco145"]We all know that the 360 was maximized in 2006 by GeoW.killerfist

Then explain to me how Gears 2 manages to look better?

Man peaople really thinks Gears 2 looks far better than Gears 1, they have the same grafffics or almost the same it only lok better because they add more bushes cars and objects on screen but nothing more if you looks the models very closely they the same no better texture no better nothing maybe they can manage better the engine now that have more experience by adding ore things on screen more AI and other things but graffics are the same just a more things on the screen. I you look for improvemnt you have to look resistance 1 to resistance 2 thats improvment and i'm not saying that the game look better than gears but by improvment you will notice the diference in that game other is mlb the show 07 to 08.

Developers learn how to work around the hardware better over time. True, but they DO also learn to better utilize the hardware, not all improvements are strictly from working around the hardware, but from working WITH the hardware.

The hardware does not magically improve through "optimisation".

No, but the use of hardware DOES.

Fanboys love to pull the 'performance card'

Fact is Gears of War 1 is using just as much hardware as Gears of War 2.
Difference is with Gears of War 2 the developers have learns how to work around the hardware better.

This isn't true, while I can't speak for G2 or G1 situation, keeping the execution units of the machine(in both the CPU and GPU)full can vary and does later in the generation. I guarantee that Gears 1 keeps a smaller percentage of the execution units full than Gears 2 does.

The idea of 'squeezing more out of hardware' is an invention designed to make people think the hardware is still good. It isnt. Its aged and outdated, and developers have to think of better ideas to work with it.
Happens with every freaking console every gen.

No, you DO squeeze more out of the hardware...however that doesn't make it good. The consoles GPU feature set will really get exloited. Whereas on the PC the hardware is gone and obsolete long before you really learn its intricacies.

skrat_01

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

Developers learn how to work around the hardware better over time. True, but they DO also learn to better utilize the hardware, not all improvements are strictly from working around the hardware, but from working WITH the hardware.

The hardware does not magically improve through "optimisation".

No, but the use of hardware DOES.

Fanboys love to pull the 'performance card'

Fact is Gears of War 1 is using just as much hardware as Gears of War 2.
Difference is with Gears of War 2 the developers have learns how to work around the hardware better.

This isn't true, while I can't speak for G2 or G1 situation, keeping the execution units of the machine(in both the CPU and GPU)full can vary and does later in the generation. I guarantee that Gears 1 keeps a smaller percentage of the execution units full than Gears 2 does.

The idea of 'squeezing more out of hardware' is an invention designed to make people think the hardware is still good. It isnt. Its aged and outdated, and developers have to think of better ideas to work with it.
Happens with every freaking console every gen.

No, you DO squeeze more out of the hardware...however that doesn't make it good. The consoles GPU feature set will really get exloited. Whereas on the PC the hardware is gone and obsolete long before you really learn its intricacies.

Steppy_76

Yes use of hardware does. The term 'optimisation' is thrown around that anything can be scaled to the hardware. It has its set limitations, and even if you learn to use it better those limitations are still going to impact on your game design. Hence why its impossible for a game like Crysis to run - because of game design, and designers like Kojima had to scale their original ideas back a notch, because of the limitations.

Fair enough

I dont think the term 'squeeze more out' fits at all. It gives the imagery that the consoles hardware is producing more than it should be, exeeding its boundaries... when in reality its boundaries are set and pre determined. Even if a developer learns to use the hardware better, they arent somehow jumping over its limitation hurdles, just learning how to deal with them better. There is way too much focus on the 'hardware' rather than the developers use of it.

As for PC hardware, I wouldent say that - too a degree. Developers arent limited by pre set hardware restrictions, and ultimatley it comes down to how your software scales for your target audience. Hence why games like the Total War series grace the platform. Though how your software utilises the hardware comes into play, and it seems more about how well - lets say - the game engine is optimised, than how X card utilises it.

[QUOTE="blackdreamhunk"][QUOTE="aoshi_shinumori"]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

Epic Games producer Rod Fergusson believes that Xbox 360 titles launching in 2010 will wring every ounce of possible performance out of the Xbox 360:

"I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

Steppy_76

it all depends on the texture artist/levels designers how skilled they are.

Developers learn how to work around the hardware better over time.

The hardware does not magically improve through "optimisation".

Fanboys love to pull the 'performance card'

Fact is Gears of War 1 is using just as much hardware as Gears of War 2.
Difference is with Gears of War 2 the developers have learns how to work around the hardware better.

The idea of 'squeezing more out of hardware' is an invention designed to make people think the hardware is still good. It isnt. Its aged and outdated, and developers have to think of better ideas to work with it.
Happens with every freaking console every gen.

skrat_01

For some odd reason, I didn't think anyone was thick enough to take the "squeeze more out of hardware" catchphrase quite literally.

In fact, I think what you've stated is the obvious.

Might have gone a bit too overboard there, mate.