Xbox One OWNS the PS4 with a technique called "Tiled Resources"

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

Sorry, but games already do something similar called texture streaming. Bioshock Infinite, or the whole Unreal Engine in general does what "Tiled Resources" already does. So how does this own the PS4 exactly? Oh wait...fanboys.

I'm not completely technologically illiterate, but a lot of stuff is over my head.

What this sounds like to me is blur on the edges of your screen and none in front of you, but I have the feeling something a bit more clever is at work here.

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

Baurus_1

If anyone remembers "Blast Processing" and "Mode 7", this is what this is. Marketing lulz.

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

Baurus_1

Frustrum Culling, tiled resources, mega textures etc. all work on the idea of providing less details for things u dont see or just dont render them at all. Some of these techniques have been around for a long time, and I'd argue that the recent techniques are helpful, but don't have as much an effect on performance as people make them out to have.

Tiled resources? Is that what Microsoft's calling the dashboard ads now?

That technique is old hat really. Epic designed it into their engine so it could be implimented by a developer, AMD has something similliar to it also.

But at the end of the day it doesnt really make much of a front end difference. Its more impressive sounding on paper than in reality. Its kind of like when a TV manufacturer brags about having some insanely high number to :1 on contrast ratio but in the real world it makes no difference, it just sounds good on a product portfolio.

.

That technique is old hat really. Epic designed it into their engine so it could be implimented by a developer, AMD has something similliar to it also.

 

But at the end of the day it doesnt really make much of a front end difference. Its more impressive sounding on paper than in reality. Its kind of like when a TV manufacturer brags about having some insanely high number to :1 on contrast ratio but in the real world it makes no difference, it just sounds good on a product portfolio.

Gargus

Damage control?

[QUOTE="Gargus"]

That technique is old hat really. Epic designed it into their engine so it could be implimented by a developer, AMD has something similliar to it also.

 

But at the end of the day it doesnt really make much of a front end difference. Its more impressive sounding on paper than in reality. Its kind of like when a TV manufacturer brags about having some insanely high number to :1 on contrast ratio but in the real world it makes no difference, it just sounds good on a product portfolio.

Baurus_1

Damage control?

How is that damage control :? 

[QUOTE="Baurus_1"]

[QUOTE="Gargus"]

That technique is old hat really. Epic designed it into their engine so it could be implimented by a developer, AMD has something similliar to it also.

 

But at the end of the day it doesnt really make much of a front end difference. Its more impressive sounding on paper than in reality. Its kind of like when a TV manufacturer brags about having some insanely high number to :1 on contrast ratio but in the real world it makes no difference, it just sounds good on a product portfolio.

dream431ca

Damage control?

How is that damage control :? 

Where does the article mention it in comparison to what the PS4 can do? Man the trolls here suck =/soulitane

thank you. ./thread. 

Baurus_1 fail thread :lol:MonsieurX

Found some info, may or may not help explain the difference.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7231

It is definitely going to be an interesting development.

March 2012 an article talking about how AMD was putting PRT into their cards

Quote:"but will that be exposed as a new API or as a new texture fetch command for GLSL? I would bet on the API solution, making this fixed per texture is probably easier to implement. But if the pipeline stalls anyway, using the MMU for large data could also be interesting for other buffers beside textures

NVidia has also announced MMUs in there next GPU generation Kepler but has given even fewer details about that.

I hope that the long wait for the OpenGL extension is a good sign and AMD is already talking to NVidia to create a unified extension, the Kepler GPUs are just around the corner"

They have definitely been dealing with this ideal of PRT for a few years and from what people have been saying is that the development of the XB1 was only going back like 2 or so years ago.

In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EswYdzsHKMc (only 3 mins) he clearly mentions that it is for Intel, AMD & NVidia and specifically only says next gen console (doesn't say next gen console(s) )

What we need to remember is he is talking about PRT being at a Hardware level now and not just at a software level (which can be done anywhere except way less efficient)

Then there is this video http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2013/4-063

This goes for a lot longer but PLEASE before ANYONE posts on this thread please spend the time and watch it or please don't post. It answers so many questions people keep on trying to say otherwise in these threads.

Also on this video he mentions next gen console (not consoles)

Then there is this company called Graphine which makes middleware software 'for game developers' he is in the longer video also and said their system to make games into PRT & old shader type is relatively painless (so no massive development times to change games to take advantage of Hardware PRT and if there is no Hardware PRT it uses the Normal Rendering methods) http://graphinesoftware.com/Announcing-Granite-2.0 

From their website posted just above

"Hardware tiled resources offer several improvements over the shader based method available in Granite 1.8. Especially when using high-quality filtering modes such as full anisotropic trilinear filtering with a high degree of anisotropy (>= 8x) there are clear advantages. Firstly, the shader can be simplified, reducing the instruction count from around 30 to 10-15 shader instructions in the case of anisotropic filtering. Secondly, since no overlap needs to be used on tile borders cache use and compression can be improved. Finally, streaming throughput is improved by 33% as no mipmaps have to be generated for uploaded tiles"

It also goes on to say

"Of course Granite 2.0 still has full support for shader emulation on older API´s and hardware. This makes using tiled resources in multi-platform games or engines very easy. If there is hardware Granite will use it, if not it will automatically fall back to a shader based implementation."

So I think MS has a hardware implementation of the PRT (as evident by the reviews of the 7790) and I think even though sony may be able to do it (it would be software based and not take advantages of the improvements noted above)

*Also at 29 minutes and 45 seconds in the longer video with the Middleware company (Graphine Software) he talks about what is needed to really work well with Tiled Resources.

*Minimize Latency
*Minimize Texture Cache Size
*Minimize Storage Size
*Minimize Production Overhead
*Maximize Uniquie Texture Data


So this is my take on it

Sony has chosen a method that is 'currently' employed with games, standard rendering, standard use of textures that take up a lot of space (hence the need for high bandwidth), where as I believe MS has gone for the forward thinking approach which is what AMD has been wanting for many years with its Hardware PRT, because with Hardware PRT, smaller textures the issue then becomes not the bandwidth (because file size is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, ie only needing 16mb for a 1920x1080 resolution, but latency is then the single most limiting factor) which would explain the use of DDR3 ram, move engines and Low latency eSram.

The key will definitely be if the developers take advantage of it, but given that from over 2 years ago AMD has been creating this as an open standard, getting Intel & NVIDIA on board (as they are all moving towards having on die cache) I think developers will (if not already) be right on board with it.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458866

Have a look at that slide directly from AMD (besides John Carmack saying he will implement it in Doom 4) but

*Texture Sizes up to 32GB
*Expected to feature in next gen game engines (this is a biggy, nearly all game designers are spending more time with AMD now)
*Notice the bottom bit of the Slide (AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series) doesn't say 7000 series!!!

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

Baurus_1

PRT's already exist, AMD has had an OpenGL extension for a while, and use it in one of their tech demos. -http://developer.amd.com/resources/documentation-articles/samples-demos/gpu-demos/amd-radeon-hd-7900-series-graphics-real-time-demos/

Found some info, may or may not help explain the difference.

 

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7231

GravityX

TCHBO

7850 > underclocked 7770

gddr5 > ddr3

that is not pr bs, that is fact

#dealwithit

Old. and in the original thread that discussed this, it was brought up that OpenGL, the primary one Playstation use, already has this.

Old. and in the original thread that discussed this, it was brought up that OpenGL, the primary one Playstation use, already has this.

lx_theo

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

7850 > underclocked 7770

gddr5 > ddr3

that is not pr bs, that is fact

#dealwithit

Krelian-co

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

This is a marketing gimmick. What they call "tiled resources" is really a sort of tessellation BUT instead of increasing the amount of detail in a 3d object, it removes objects you don't see. Current gen games like COD, Battlefield, and many other PC/PS3/Xbox games already utilize this type of technology and have since the PS1 days.

Ever try playing COD in wire frame mode? Go inside a building and you will see trees and other 3d models disappear from the scene until you can physically see them again. They are only adapting this technology to how close your view port is to something which replaces LOD models and textures. I wouldn't expect much or anything at all from this.

Don't be fooled by this marketing scheme.

More like a downgrade to me. Not pushing it to its true potential.

Where does the article mention it in comparison to what the PS4 can do? Man the trolls here suck =/soulitane

If some of the more vocal and crazier  cows just disappeared we wouldn't have to deal with trolls like the TC.

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

 

 

xboxiphoneps3

People really need ot stop screen capturing terrible pics  from titanfall videos.

[QUOTE="soulitane"]Where does the article mention it in comparison to what the PS4 can do? Man the trolls here suck =/super600

If some of the more vocal and crazier the cows just disappeared we wouldn't have to deal with trolls like the TC.

Your blaming crazy cows for crazy lemmings? So now it's the cows fault that lemmings are so bad? What??????

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="soulitane"]Where does the article mention it in comparison to what the PS4 can do? Man the trolls here suck =/dream431ca

If some of the more vocal and crazier the cows just disappeared we wouldn't have to deal with trolls like the TC.

Your blaming crazy cows for crazy lemmings? So now it's the cows fault that lemmings are so bad? What??????

If the cows keep on bragging about the ps4 and making dumb posts with their alts users like the TC will do the same thing to.

This is a marketing gimmick. What they call "tiled resources" is really a sort of tessellation BUT instead of increasing the amount of detail in a 3d object, it removes objects you don't see. Current gen games like COD, Battlefield, and many other PC/PS3/Xbox games already utilize this type of technology and have since the PS1 days.

Ever try playing COD in wire frame mode? Go inside a building and you will see trees and other 3d models disappear from the scene until you can physically see them again. They are only adapting this technology to how close your view port is to something which replaces LOD models and textures. I wouldn't expect much or anything at all from this.

Don't be fooled by this marketing scheme.

TrooperManaic

This "tiled resources" deals textures and the smaller/faster VRAM issue, and it's hardware accelerated.

Tessellation deals with geometry.

"Tiled resources" reduces the need for 8 GB of GDDR5.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="super600"]

 

If some of the more vocal and crazier the cows just disappeared we wouldn't have to deal with trolls like the TC.

super600

Your blaming crazy cows for crazy lemmings? So now it's the cows fault that lemmings are so bad? What??????

If the cows keep on bragging about the ps4 and making dumb posts with their alts users like the TC will do the same thing to.

So what happens if lems keep bragging about the XB1?

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

 

super600

People really need ot stop screen capturing terrible pics  from titanfall videos.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

7850 > underclocked 7770

gddr5 > ddr3

that is not pr bs, that is fact

#dealwithit

ronvalencia

trying to care about your opinion, but i really couldn't, sorry :(

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

Your blaming crazy cows for crazy lemmings? So now it's the cows fault that lemmings are so bad? What??????

dream431ca

If the cows keep on bragging about the ps4 and making dumb posts with their alts users like the TC will do the same thing to.

So what happens if lems keep bragging about the XB1?

The bragging is not really a problem it's the combination of the alt creation by the cows and the bragging/dumb posts.If the lemings bragged about something the exact same thing will happen probably.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

 

TrooperManaic

People really need ot stop screen capturing terrible pics  from titanfall videos.

It looks better in videos, but it's still not that impressive.

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

 

 

super600

People really need ot stop screen capturing terrible pics  from titanfall videos.

This is real computer science, not some fanboy pseudo-science.

Read this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125435-Microsoft-Tiled-Resources-Key-To-Xbox-One-Graphics

So it looks like it will be another console gen of Sony's console being owned in the graphics department.

Baurus_1

This is DX, nothing to do with your console.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="xboxiphoneps3"]

dat DirectX 11.2 exclusive "Tiled Resources"

 

 

Gaming-Planet

People really need ot stop screen capturing terrible pics  from titanfall videos.

The game looks better in motion anyway even though it's not that impressive.

Can we please stop comparing X1 to ps4? There's a much better opponent for X1. Its called the wiiu. Both are selling/will sell like crap, both have no games and both are underpowered. X1 vs WiiU need to happen.silversix_

In terms of graphics the xbox one and the ps4 are pretty close to each other.

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Can we please stop comparing X1 to ps4? There's a much better opponent for X1. Its called the wiiu. Both are selling/will sell like crap, both have no games and both are underpowered. X1 vs WiiU need to happen.super600

In terms of graphics the xbox one and the ps4 are pretty close to each other.

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Can we please stop comparing X1 to ps4? There's a much better opponent for X1. Its called the wiiu. Both are selling/will sell like crap, both have no games and both are underpowered. X1 vs WiiU need to happen.super600

In terms of graphics the xbox one and the ps4 are pretty close to each other.

What?? I haven't seen them in action yet in person. Please do tell. (I know, I'm a jerk.) :P