Xbox One OWNS the PS4 with a technique called "Tiled Resources"

[QUOTE="RR360DD"]I guess thats what happens when Sony just grabs off the shelf parts and slaps its together to make a console :cool:tormentos

So where can i grab an off the shelf 8 core jaguar APU with a 78XX GPU,and 8GB of GDDR5.?

:lol:

Keep eating anything MS feed you,and you will have diarrhea in the brain.

If anything the xbox one is more off the shelf,DDR3,less custom GPU.

You can't anymore. All that hardware is outdated now, shops are stocking bigger and better things :cool:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL Open GL has had this technique for a couple of years now only now has direct X got a version of their own LOL. The PS4 will be able to do this aswell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA only its not new with open GL so it hasn't been in the news now Direct X comes out and says its got a new feature everyone goes heads over heals and laughs at the PS4 before checking, If they did they would have found the PS4 is going to have the exact same feature. LOL you Lems crack me upziggyww

This is the reason why sony say the PS4 GPU had features over DirectX1.1+,OpenGL has support this for ages and MS arrived now,is one of those ways were DirectX get in the way,if all developers were using OpenGL they would be using PRT for a long time ago,and lemmings ask them self why DirectX is a rock in the middle of developers road.

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

Shewgenja

If the data transfer between the DDR3 and the ESRAM is instant why not do away with the ESRAM and have instant data transfer from the DDR3 direct to the GPU.... Oh wait it does not work like that!!! Bandwidth does not make a huge difference to PRT. PRT is a way to more efficiently use the pool of memory you have so you can get higher resolution textures into a smaller Vram pool.btk2k2

They actually believe that 32MB of ESRAM will make that DDR3 work like GDDR5..:lol:

Exactly which i why i told Ron that it would also work on PS4,but he also refuses to admit it,and some think like this,Superclocked has actually copy some of the stupid things Ronvalencia say.

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

btk2k2

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

btk2k2

I wonder why GPU makers move to the more expensive GDDR5,is ESRAM which is cheap and move engines will make DDR3 work faster..

Oh those dumb GPU makers when will they learn from MS cheap way..:lol:

[QUOTE="btk2k2"]If the data transfer between the DDR3 and the ESRAM is instant why not do away with the ESRAM and have instant data transfer from the DDR3 direct to the GPU.... Oh wait it does not work like that!!! Bandwidth does not make a huge difference to PRT. PRT is a way to more efficiently use the pool of memory you have so you can get higher resolution textures into a smaller Vram pool.tormentos

They actually believe that 32MB of ESRAM will make that DDR3 work like GDDR5..:lol:

Exactly which i why i told Ron that it would also work on PS4,but he also refuses to admit it,and some think like this,Superclocked has actually copy some of the stupid things Ronvalencia say.

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

superclocked

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

tormentos

I wonder why GPU makers move to the more expensive GDDR5,is ESRAM which is cheap and move engines will make DDR3 work faster..

Oh those dumb GPU makers when will they learn from MS cheap way..:lol:

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"]If the data transfer between the DDR3 and the ESRAM is instant why not do away with the ESRAM and have instant data transfer from the DDR3 direct to the GPU.... Oh wait it does not work like that!!! Bandwidth does not make a huge difference to PRT. PRT is a way to more efficiently use the pool of memory you have so you can get higher resolution textures into a smaller Vram pool.superclocked

They actually believe that 32MB of ESRAM will make that DDR3 work like GDDR5..:lol:

Exactly which i why i told Ron that it would also work on PS4,but he also refuses to admit it,and some think like this,Superclocked has actually copy some of the stupid things Ronvalencia say.

Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...superclocked

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="superclocked"]Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...superclocked

[QUOTE="superclocked"]Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...tormentos

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

[QUOTE="ziggyww"]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL Open GL has had this technique for a couple of years now only now has direct X got a version of their own LOL. The PS4 will be able to do this aswell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA only its not new with open GL so it hasn't been in the news now Direct X comes out and says its got a new feature everyone goes heads over heals and laughs at the PS4 before checking, If they did they would have found the PS4 is going to have the exact same feature. LOL you Lems crack me uptormentos

This is the reason why sony say the PS4 GPU had features over DirectX1.1+,OpenGL has support this for ages and MS arrived now,is one of those ways were DirectX get in the way,if all developers were using OpenGL they would be using PRT for a long time ago,and lemmings ask them self why DirectX is a rock in the middle of developers road.

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

Gosh, if only my PC had Move engines.  I could use DDR2 forever!

btk2k2

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="ziggyww"]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL Open GL has had this technique for a couple of years now only now has direct X got a version of their own LOL. The PS4 will be able to do this aswell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA only its not new with open GL so it hasn't been in the news now Direct X comes out and says its got a new feature everyone goes heads over heals and laughs at the PS4 before checking, If they did they would have found the PS4 is going to have the exact same feature. LOL you Lems crack me upronvalencia

This is the reason why sony say the PS4 GPU had features over DirectX1.1+,OpenGL has support this for ages and MS arrived now,is one of those ways were DirectX get in the way,if all developers were using OpenGL they would be using PRT for a long time ago,and lemmings ask them self why DirectX is a rock in the middle of developers road.

[QUOTE="superclocked"]Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...tormentos

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="superclocked"]Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...ronvalencia

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

Why don't current GPU's use volatile but markers to improve concurrent GPU compute and stream processor performance? Because going by your logic, this PS4 advantage is inferior because it is not implimented in current GPU architectures...superclocked

No not no sony make some very small changes because they wanted more compute jobs,GCN has 2 Aces 4 compute commands,across all GCN,on PS4 is 8 Aces 64 commands,Aces is what allow in order instructions GPU like GCN do out of order executions.

ESRAM is not something that was only created for xbox one,ESRAM exist outside the xbox one,what sony did to the GPU doesn't.

The story goes that by the time MS chose 8GB of memory because that it what they need it,GDDR5 was impossible do to density of the chips not been there yet,so there was a big chance that if MS went GDDR5 they would not have enough chips for the unit and the console would have to be even bigger do to having more memory chiops.

So MS went DDR3 which was abailable on higher density and was cheaper 2 birds one stone,but DDR is slow for today graphics,so they use ESRAM to compensate for any bandwidth problem the unit may face,the 7770 which has 1.27 TF actually a tad higher than the xbox one,only has a 72Gb/s bandwidth,so MS chose that 32MB because with the 102GB/s they would compensate.

This is the same sh** all over again an i already prove how MS say on 2005 that the xbox 360 had way superior bandwidth to the PS3,based on EDRAM which ran even faster than the xbox one, at 256Gb/s..

The xbox one can have 1TB bandwidth it would not matter the xbox one GPU will never ever saturate that bus,the 7770 which has similar performance has only 72GB/s bandwidth,so i don't see why MS would need 200GGb/s with that GPU performance.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

 

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

Shewgenja

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="superclocked"]Meh, if you are not smart enough to understand the technology and advantages that they would bring to PRT, then that's your problem...ronvalencia

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"]

This is the reason why sony say the PS4 GPU had features over DirectX1.1+,OpenGL has support this for ages and MS arrived now,is one of those ways were DirectX get in the way,if all developers were using OpenGL they would be using PRT for a long time ago,and lemmings ask them self why DirectX is a rock in the middle of developers road.

btk2k2

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/opengl/specs/GL_NV_bindless_texture.txt

NVIDIA's partially resident textures like feature Since the amount of texture memory required by an application may exceed the amount of memory available to the system, this extension provides API calls allowing applications to manage overall texture memory consumption by making a texture resident and non-resident as required.

It uses shader resources.

lol..lemmings...

[QUOTE="ziggyww"]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL Open GL has had this technique for a couple of years now only now has direct X got a version of their own LOL. The PS4 will be able to do this aswell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA only its not new with open GL so it hasn't been in the news now Direct X comes out and says its got a new feature everyone goes heads over heals and laughs at the PS4 before checking, If they did they would have found the PS4 is going to have the exact same feature. LOL you Lems crack me upsuperclocked

No no no no no. Not even close.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"]

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

btk2k2

Tiled resource demo was limited to 16MB video memory.

Note that PCI-E is a full duplex bus i.e. 16 GB is for one direction. You also have DX9/DX10/ DX11's texture compression formats.

[QUOTE="superclocked"][QUOTE="ziggyww"]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL Open GL has had this technique for a couple of years now only now has direct X got a version of their own LOL. The PS4 will be able to do this aswell HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA only its not new with open GL so it hasn't been in the news now Direct X comes out and says its got a new feature everyone goes heads over heals and laughs at the PS4 before checking, If they did they would have found the PS4 is going to have the exact same feature. LOL you Lems crack me updream431ca

No no no no no. Not even close.

Tiled resources? Is that what Microsoft's calling the dashboard ads now?

Vari3ty

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="superclocked"]The point is, the XBox One will be much better at it, due to the near instantaneous movement of data between the 32MB of L4 cache and 8GB of DDR3 memory...superclocked

No no no no no. Not even close.

WOW man you're a genius :roll:

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] AMD's OpenGL PRT is a vendor specific extension and it's not part of the official OpenGL standard.ronvalencia

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/opengl/specs/GL_NV_bindless_texture.txt

NVIDIA's partially resident textures like feature Since the amount of texture memory required by an application may exceed the amount of memory available to the system, this extension provides API calls allowing applications to manage overall texture memory consumption by making a texture resident and non-resident as required.

It uses shader resources.

[QUOTE="superclocked"]The point is, the XBox One will be much better at it, due to the near instantaneous movement of data between the 32MB of L4 cache and 8GB of DDR3 memory...Douevenlift_bro

WOW man you're a genius :roll:

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

Actually you are not smart enough to understand that MS chose ESRAM as a patch for bandwidth problems do to them chosing cheap DDR3 over GDDR5.

 

Nor move engines or ESRAM will magically inject flops into the xbox one,PRT is a feature of GCN which the majority is based on GDDR5 memory,without any ESRAM help,PRT were not created for ESRAM.

Shewgenja

Oh I see now! So THATS how they get Source engine games to run on it.

pelvist

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] AMD PRT is designed smaller/fast memory pool. AMD PRT's value is less for single speed memory pool.ronvalencia

Tiled resource demo was limited to 16MB video memory.

Note that PCI-E is a full duplex bus i.e. 16 GB is for one direction. You also have DX9/DX10/ DX11's texture compression formats.

[QUOTE="dream431ca"]

[QUOTE="superclocked"]The point is, the XBox One will be much better at it, due to the near instantaneous movement of data between the 32MB of L4 cache and 8GB of DDR3 memory...superclocked

No no no no no. Not even close.

Always :cool:

Kidding aside, the ESRAM is a convoluted way of enhancing the bandwidth issue. In the XB1, the DDR3 bandwidth alone is 68.3 GB/s, while the GDDR5 in the PS4 is around 176 GB/s. Pretty big gap. The ESRAM is an unknown at this point:

1. Is the ESRAM a cache, or software managed memory?
2. Can the ESRAM read and write at the same time?
3. Do developers need to jump through hoops to access the ESRAM, potentially making development more complicated?

As of right now, the PS4 is in a much better position when it comes to bandwidth. It's also a very simple architecture to develop games for.

And regarding "Tiled Resources", this feature will also be on PS4 because of the AMD GFX processor.

[QUOTE="superclocked"][QUOTE="dream431ca"]

No no no no no. Not even close.

dream431ca

Always :cool:

Kidding aside, the ESRAM is a convoluted way of enhancing the bandwidth issue. In the XB1, the DDR3 bandwidth alone is 68.3 GB/s, while the GDDR5 in the PS4 is around 176 GB/s. Pretty big gap. The ESRAM is an unknown at this point:

1. Is the ESRAM a cache, or software managed memory?
2. Can the ESRAM read and write at the same time?
3. Do developers need to jump through hoops to access the ESRAM, potentially making development more complicated?

As of right now, the PS4 is in a much better position when it comes to bandwidth. It's also a very simple architecture to develop games for.

1. Most likely a cache since it doesn't have the ROPs units like in Xbox 360's EDRAM.

AMD PRT's treatment on the fast memory domain.

2. SRAM has dual ports

3. less latency can have less cache size.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"] Yup. A system where you have 16GB of slow memory moving through a slow PCiE bus (8 or 16GB/s depending on if its gen 2 or gen 3) and a pool of 2GB(or more) of Vram on a fast 150GB/s+ bus. The difference in size between the large pool at the small pool is about 8x on a mid range PC. On the X1 the difference in size is 256x the size. Not so sure that AMD designed the system to work well when the Vram pool is 0.004% the size of the main memory pool. The good news though is that PRT is not really bandwidth limited so the 8GB of DDR3 should still work fine for PRT. btk2k2

Tiled resource demo was limited to 16MB video memory.

Note that PCI-E is a full duplex bus i.e. 16 GB is for one direction. You also have DX9/DX10/ DX11's texture compression formats.

PC has legacy support that doesn't use DX11.2's tiled resource.

There's nothing wrong with having more.

I'm just point out the full bandwidth for the PCiE bus.

I just have to laugh sometimes at how insane people get on here.

This forum is just a sad group of people trying to justify their purchase by any means necessary.

Just because you're buying one black box, that doesnt mean you have to hate the other one and all of their fans.

Why cant a Sony fan check out tiled resources and just be like "Oh thats interesting, lets see what Sony does!"

but they dont, because its pre-programmed in their mind that everything MS announces is a lie or gimmick.

I just have to laugh sometimes at how insane people get on here.

This forum is just a sad group of people trying to justify their purchase by any means necessary.

Just because you're buying one black box, that doesnt mean you have to hate the other one and all of their fans.

Why cant a Sony fan check out tiled resources and just be like "Oh thats interesting, lets see what Sony does!"

but they dont, because its pre-programmed in their mind that everything MS announces is a lie or gimmick.

Crypt_mx

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Tiled resource demo was limited to 16MB video memory.

Note that PCI-E is a full duplex bus i.e. 16 GB is for one direction. You also have DX9/DX10/ DX11's texture compression formats.

ronvalencia

PC has legacy support that doesn't use DX11.2's tiled resource.

There's nothing wrong with having more.

I'm just point out the full bandwidth for the PCiE bus.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"] If the texture compression formats were that great we would not need 2GB+ of Vram on high end PC graphics cards for anything other than professional workloads. The fact that games can make use of 2GB+ of Vram means that even though the D3D compression helps it does not offset the size increases of the textures. The size of the demo is meaningless as it is just a demo and the bandwidth of the PCiE bus were pretty irrelevant to my point other than to show that PRT works even when the bandwidth is low.btk2k2

PC has legacy support that doesn't use DX11.2's tiled resource.

There's nothing wrong with having more.

I'm just point out the full bandwidth for the PCiE bus.

DX11.2 is released with Windows 8.1 preview and WDM 1.3 drivers e.g. http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalystWIN8-1PreviewDriver.aspx

Windows 8.1 RTM will be released on 1st of August 2013 and it's free upgrade for Windows 8.0 users.

Current PC game dosesn't use DX11.2.

Sorry, but games already do something similar called texture streaming. Bioshock Infinite, or the whole Unreal Engine in general does what "Tiled Resources" already does. So how does this own the PS4 exactly? Oh wait...fanboys.dream431ca

This. Get over it & accept the truth, OP. Xbox One is weaker than the PS4.

[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

PC has legacy support that doesn't use DX11.2's tiled resource.

There's nothing wrong with having more.

I'm just point out the full bandwidth for the PCiE bus.

ronvalencia

DX11.2 is released with Windows 8.1 preview and WDM 1.3 drivers e.g. http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalystWIN8-1PreviewDriver.aspx

Windows 8.1 RTM will be released on 1st of August 2013 and it's free upgrade for Windows 8.0 users.

Current PC game dosesn't use DX11.2.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"] I am not surprised that the PC does not use DX11.2 since it is not out yet. Besides what does that have to do with texture compression not offsetting the size of textures required in a modern game being significantly larger than 32MB? btk2k2

DX11.2 is released with Windows 8.1 preview and WDM 1.3 drivers e.g. http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalystWIN8-1PreviewDriver.aspx

Windows 8.1 RTM will be released on 1st of August 2013 and it's free upgrade for Windows 8.0 users.

Current PC game dosesn't use DX11.2.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="btk2k2"] Yup. A system where you have 16GB of slow memory moving through a slow PCiE bus (8 or 16GB/s depending on if its gen 2 or gen 3) and a pool of 2GB(or more) of Vram on a fast 150GB/s+ bus. The difference in size between the large pool at the small pool is about 8x on a mid range PC. On the X1 the difference in size is 256x the size. Not so sure that AMD designed the system to work well when the Vram pool is 0.004% the size of the main memory pool. The good news though is that PRT is not really bandwidth limited so the 8GB of DDR3 should still work fine for PRT. btk2k2

Tiled resource demo was limited to 16MB video memory.

Note that PCI-E is a full duplex bus i.e. 16 GB is for one direction. You also have DX9/DX10/ DX11's texture compression formats.

Texture compression increases the effective memory bandwidth.