XboxOne may get a performance boost from DX12 - Dev

sauce

Sebastian Aaltonen: We are eagerly waiting to get our hands dirty with DirectX 12. It's definitely possible that Xbox One will also get a performance boost from a new low-level API.

Sebastian Aaltonen: Microsoft has announced that DirectX 12 has several efficiency improvements over DirectX 11. It seems to be a very well-designed API. As a long time console developer, I love to get my hands dirty with the low-level resource handling and data synchronisation also on PC. This will allow developers to create games that will never drop frames. On current high-level PC APIs, you can get unexpected stalls, because the GPU driver chooses to do memory reallocation or transfer some data unexpectedly though the slow PCI Express bus.

This performance boost won't bring it up to PS4 level of performance. It will narrow the gap slightly, but the PS4 with its current API will still be better.

cool, now lets see these games

I don't think anyone has ever said that aside from system fan boys. Note the dev said "possible".

DX12 IS DUE/TARGETING HOLIDAY 2015! The fanboys keep talking about it like it's about to release and change everything. That's amusing. It's not going to change the hardware. This is just marketing PR and people should just stop talking about it until after it's released, instead of a thread every other day promising marketing jargon. When and if there are improvements, let's allow those 2015-2016 Xbone games speak to us. The hardware performance boost won't tip the scales, if that's what you are praying for.

Misleading thread title:

"XboxOne will also get a performance boost from DX12 - Dev"

Dev actually said it's merely "possible" Xbone will get performance boost and the dev admits they don't have DX12.

There is a HUGE difference from "it's possible it will get boost" to "it will get a boost".

Way to inaccurately spin TC. This is exactly what PR wants and you oblige. inb4lock.

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EDIT 1: The TC changed his thread title from 'will" to "may". It's now accurate and not misleading.

EDIT 2: I just noticed this...You need 500 posts to be allowed to create threads in the SW GS forum, TC.

Quick Rules in SW To Always Follow:

• Must have at least 500 posts to create topics.
• Keep your discussions around what belongs here: platforms, games, developers, publishers, and stats.
• Do NOT quote more than two images in your post.
• Do NOT have more than four quotes in your post (quote pyramids).

well ain't that a bitch

inb4lock and that performance boost won't do much

Well DirectX12 is suppose to lower CPU usage compared to DirectX11 and that has shown to help a lot in Low Resolution instances...

Fits perfectly with the Xbox One then.

Also on esram. It seems that its big enough for this dev

Can you go into depth on how you approached ESRAM?

Sebastian Aaltonen: Actually that 32MB discussion wasn't about our engine; it was about an unoptimised prototype of another developer. The general consensus in that discussion thread was that it is not possible to fit a fully featured G-buffer to a 32MB memory pool. I, of course, had to disagree, and formulate a buffer layout that had all the same data tightly packed and encoded to fit to the target size.

Modern GPUs, such as AMD Graphics Core Next (GCN), have full rate integer processing (except for 32-bit integer multiplies) and are able to perform combined shift + mask instruction in a single cycle. With these tools, we can do very fast bit packing. For every value stored to the memory, you should analyse the numeric distribution and range, and determine the best mapping to encode it with the least amount of bits while still preserving the desired quality. Packing data tightly is very important in achieving the best possible performance, as bandwidth is usually the limiting factor in GPU compute kernels on modern hardware.

With compute shaders you can also do processing 'in-place' (output data to same buffer as input) just like you usually do in cache-optimised CPU code. For example you can write your RGBA16F lighting output on top of your first two G-buffers, and save eight bytes per pixel storage cost. There are also two additional performance bonuses with this method: It guarantees that memory writes always occur to L1 cache, as the G-buffer read from the same buffer has just loaded that cache line to L1. Also direct memory writes from a compute shader sidestep ROPs completely. You will never be fill-rate bound this way.

We had our own unique way of maximising the ESRAM usage. We used an Excel sheet to track the lifetime of each resource during a frame. We split the frame into four passes (shadows, G-buffer rendering, lighting and post processing), and then tried to get as many as possible live resources simultaneously to ESRAM in each pass, while trying to keep as many resources in ESRAM that were needed later. This was a really successful strategy and allowed us to utilise over 95 per cent of ESRAM space in three out of our four passes. We have also planned to automate this process in the future using an algorithm similar to those used by compilers to do register allocation and spilling.

Thanks you M$. us lemmings could use some Hope during this hard time

Might help stop it being both a resolution and framerate difference with the PS4 version of games and frame dips in games that aren't very taxing like Trials.

Dat PS4 compute advantage. And lol at dx11.

Digital Foundry: What's your take on GPU Compute? You did some groundbreaking work on GPU utilisation on Xbox 360 - what opportunities did next-gen open up for you?

Sebastian Aaltonen: I love GPU compute! You can do many things more efficiently using compute than using a pixel shader. Unfortunately for Trials Fusion we couldn't use that much GPU compute, as we needed to run the same game also on Xbox 360 and on DirectX 10.1 compatible PCs.

However things will change radically in the future when we no longer need to support last-generation consoles and DirectX 10 PC GPUs. At that point we can run the whole graphics engine inside the GPU, freeing CPU cores for improved physics simulation and gameplay, and simultaneously allowing massive rendering performance improvements. I am eagerly waiting to see what kinds of crazy things developers will achieve with these new consoles once we know them as well as we know the last-generation.

Sebastian Aaltonen: Currently OpenGL is the most feature-rich graphics API on PC. OpenGL 4.4 exposes most of the new hardware features of AMD GCN and Nvidia Kepler GPUs that are not yet exposed in DirectX 11. Features such as indirect multi draw call, bindless resources and sparse textures are very important for us in the future.

Maybe so. Guess we'll know in a year and a half.

This is what I find interesting:

Well No shit open GL is feature rich. First its open source. This means anyone can develop new materials and features for Open GL. DX is a linear controlled development process. MS extended functions for 11 by writing extensions. DX12 will come out and smash Open Gl until a couple months then it will be reverse engineered and added to open gl. Unless AMD releases the source for mantle prior.

everyone knows there will be a performance boost. just don't expect anything amazing.

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

Another one for Tormento... boom...

How many times i have say that DX 12 is basically playing catch up with the PS4 API and OpenGL.?

MS is behind and DX12 is nothing more than a me to Api to catch Mantle,libGNM and OpenGL..

@ttboy: Be prepared for cows to come in and damage control this to death. Eventually more developers will get their hands on DX12 and come out with good news.

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It'll be out for the XB1 before the PC. PC is fall 2015. XB1 early 2015. The XB1 already has some DX12 features on it.

Is already on xbox one buffoon it has always been,DX12 is basically MS xbox one API on PC..

Reason why it wasn't demo on xbox one,and it was on PC,several developers already have say that the xbox one API does have DX12 features already,that is because DX12 is DX for xbox one on PC..

Get a nice chair so you have seat and wait for the so call visuals enhancements..

You should re-read the post and the interview.

I already read your misleading thread,and i know what MS say about bringing to PC features on the xbox one APi...

So yeah get one nice chair you to so you can wait alongside Blackace ....

Already have my chair. This will be an interesting place in 5 weeks.

joke post below

MS is listening to cows/sony fans instead of XBOX fans !

DX12 100% percent boost will decrease to 4% thanks to Sony fans pleas and crying. PS4 will remain more powerful since MS is so humble to the competition.

Planets are hollow earth is flat etc..

Sarcasm

ps4 will remain more powerful because it's not relying on magic and clouds.

DX12 is released. Xbone gains 3fps on average. Microsoft tell everyone "see? performance did increased!". What a joke.

To be fair, MS have to do it properly on a much bigger scale. Sony had to do it for one machine.

You said it yourself in that most of the features are in the Xbox One, so MS did that, but they have to bring it to everything now.

And Sony are catching up with the multithreading balance feature which is why they're just hiring people now to work on it for the PS4 and retrospectively the PS3.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/18/sony-working-on-improving-multithreading-and-parallel-processing-for-ps4-and-ps3/

It will most likely improve frame latency rather than increase performance.

LOL. "may". also, may not.

It's "possible" the Xbone will get a performance boost in 1.5 years time. Is that seriously what all this cretinous chest puffery and boasting has been centred around? It's as if every console ever made ever in the history of everything doesn't get perfomance & visual improvements over time...

It sure will i just want to see what excuses you people will bring when the xbox one version of games still trail behind the PS4.

The whole 100% is a joke and the reason nothing was show on xbox one,when the PC version is do to late 2015 is because the xbox one already has those gains,since before launch because console API are more stream line and i can quote MS again on that if you like,hell i can quote them saying how they will bring the xbox one APi gains to PC which is what DX12 is...lol

Don't you get it.?

What MS is doing on DX12 is already done on xbox one,is for 1 machine as well,they will bring that to PC which is why it will take until 2015,but on xbox one it has been since launch.

In fact on the xbox 360 was the same as well the api was very streaming since the go.

Sony has multithreading balance already,one thing is making it and another IMPROVING it,improving refer to something you already have,like improving your car performance you already have it now you fine tune it..

The PS4 API already works like Mantle so yeah sony has it,and once again the PS3 also had load balancing between SPU,is call Spurs,which if the program in charge of distributing workloads evenly..

So is not the same not having it like the developer claim here,as improving it which even your own link claims.

OpenGL4.4> DX11 OpenGL 4.4 = DX12 Oh but mind you that by late 2015 OpenGL may very well be ahead again,because the tool is always improving and is not tied to windows release..

There is a performance gap that is here to stay,and will not leave no matter what API MS comes with,because it a hardware one,and since both GPU on the PS4 and xbox one are the same family both can do the exact same thing,so there is no 1 feature on DX12 that the PS4 doesn't support already or can't support..lol

What are you doing TY? you know better than most that you don't need to upgrade the hardware itself on consoles to get a performance boost, thats why games look so much better at the end of a generation compared to the beginning of a generation.

And honestly, do you think MS would bother to go to the trouble of putting DX12 on the Xbone for Zero benefits to performance?

It wouldn't make any sense for them and every gamer worth there salt knows that optimising console Code can give considerable boosts to performance.

EXAMPLE: developers really struggled with the Ps3 to begin with because of a bloated operating system that gave developers far less useable RAM than was available on the 360, they lowered the Overhead on the operating system and gave more RAM back to developers, the 360 still ended up having more usable RAM but the gap was closed, a classic example of a performance boost from optimising there code.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2009/12/18/ps3-reduces-os-footprint-by-more-than-half/

Also, SONY learned to offload certain tasks that the RSX couldn't handle onto the RSX, another Example of optimising your code increasing hardware performance.

I find it funny that when a DEV says the Xbone CANNOT do something that the Developer should be believed and they know what they are talking about but wehn developers say the Xbone CAN do something the same Developers are called unreliable or biased.

You should understand that while I expect some improvements however big or small from DX12 on, I would never make the claim that it would close the gap. The only way that would be possible is if the PS4 had a significant hardware flaw.

Completely agree with that first bold part.

The second bold part is wrong,DX12 is already on xbox one,it has been since before launch,DX12 is basically MS xbox one API ported to PC,they bring those gains of having lower over head and better multithreading to PC,basically it was also on xbox 360 last gen,obviously with less features because the xbox 360 hardware didn't have PRT and other things as well that GCN has.

But the API is always very streamline on consoles,it is the reason it wasn't demo on xbox one,and rather PC because on PC the gains would show,on xbox one they would not.

The struggle with the PS3 wasn't just OS been bloated,it was also the total lack of use of SPE and extremely hard to code Cell.

The time to triangle a PS3 game was from 6 to 12 months,compare that to the PS2 which was say to be difficult but only took 3 to 6 months for a game to triangle,and on PS1 it was from 1 to 2 months.

But yeah i get your point optimization will help get better performance,but that also apply to the PS4,so if you have a difference of 4 between both consoles on launch,and the xbox one cut that to 2 with optimization,when the PS4 also get optimize the difference will be again 4,this is why i say the gap is here to stay,sure we could see fewer or even no more 720p but 900p probably will be the norm on demanding games,because there is a hardware disparity between both units.

The difference here is that Jaguar doesn't = Cell,Cell was a hybrid CPU it could handle GPU task and was very powerful when it came to power and parallelism, The Jaguar on the xbox one and PS4 sadly doesn't have the same power,is more efficient running things,but is not as strong as cell,hell GT6 has adaptive tessellation that can't be done by RSX it was done by Cell.

In this case i have been saying all alone that DX12 was playing catch up,i have months saying that Tile Resources was nothing more than Partially Resident Textures with another name,MS wasn't been upfront like always and they did imply that Tile Resources was a windows 8 and xbox one exclusive feature,when every one knows is not true,when you have MS doing thing like that,any one you see defending them in subject like those will seem suspicious.

It's pretty obvious the XB1 will not close the performance gap with the PS4, as you say, SONY are not going to 'stand still' as far as optimising there code is concerned, i just find it really frustrating on here that people think that DX12 will not improve the Xbones hardware performance at all, i don't expect Ground breaking improvements But any Gain in hardware performance, no matter how small, is a bonus to any console.

LEMS need to wake up and smell the coffee though, DX12, the cloud, none of these will close the Gap between the Ps4 and Xbone completely.

In my opinion the 360 was the more powerful console performance wise last gen by a small margin, this gen it's the Ps4 by quite a margin.

I just really hope that if SONY does go under that they Don't take the playstation brand with them, the playstation brand is BIGGER than SONY, it's bigger than all of us.

The full version of DX12 is NOT on the XBox One dum dum. lol!! Phil Spencer said this himself that there are only a few DX12 features on XB1. It wasn't demo on the XBox One because it's not the complete version. Why would anyone demo DX12 on the XB1 when it's not the complete version od DX12 with ALL the powerful goodness. That's just stupid (just like you comments). You find youself a nice hole in the ground, because that's where you'll need to hide after the E3 conferences are over.

Unfotunately for you, that's not what devs, nVidia, AMD & tech analyst are saying. Stay frosty and find yourself a hole next to El Tormo.

Yes it is only 2 missing features the rest already are there including the more important,lower CPU over head.

We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies.

With Xbox One we have also made significant enhancements to the implementation of Direct3D 11, especially in the area of runtime overhead. The result is a very streamlined, “close to metal” level of runtime performance. In conjunction with the third generation PIX performance tool for Xbox One, developers can use Direct3D 11 to unlock the full performance potential of the console.

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

The PC version is not complete you joke of a poster why do you think it arrived on late 2015,and it was demo on PC,in fact is more complete on xbox one than it is on PC..lol

Let me ask you this,don't you get tire or getting owned.?

Didn't you claim the xbox one was selling 70% better than the PS3,when it was in fact wrong.?

What did you do.? Did you refute my claim.? No you went and stick your head in the ground hole you say i should find for a few days,and act like you didn't saw it..lol

Man after E3 we would not probably see you for a week..lol

And the PS4's optimizations would just stop then? The gap will always be there and remain consistent. Trust me ;)

In fact several developers doubt it,and some even mock it..

Anything Nvidia and AMD say about DX should be take with a truck load of salt,because after all their GPU run on windows,and MS is a partner to them.

I just can't wait for E3,but actually i can't wait for after E3 so that the games keep coming in inferior form on xbox one and you still have to hold tied to the wait for the tools to arrive or wait until E3 2015..ahahahahaaa

oh oh ohhhhhh im not saying pc isn't getting any boosts, pc most certainly receive a good one. What im saying is that a box with ddr3 and a 7770 won't do shit because,,,,,, just look at the specs of this thing hahaha

LMAO@ El Tormo. You are such a fool, it's not even funny. I don't remember saying the XB1 outsold the PS3 by 70%. I know I said the XB1 was selling 60% better then the XBox 360. The XB1 was selling better then the PS3 and XBox 360 over the first 5 months. Find me the link where I said that. It might have been a typo. In any case the full version of DX12 is NOT on the Xbox One. Phil Spencer said it will be eventually. He said it would be on the XB1 before the PC. Also, the developers who are doubting it haven't seen it being utililzed on the XB1. Only a few devs have gotten the full scoop on what the XB1 will do with DX12. Having doubts and actually using it are two different things. Yes, the E3 will be fun. We'll see how many cows stick around after it's over.

Nvidia has said nothing about DX12 on Xboxone.