You Know, Gaming Really Hasn't Come That Far At All

I was playing a drunken session of RDR when I came to this sad realization. The tech has evolved but the forumla has always remained the same. It's like games have some inherent inferiority complex; very few games strive to provide anything more than instant gratification. Shallow entertainment. Kill a bunch of dudes and get your ending. This format hasnt changed since atari. Still the same character arhcetypes: big muscle men and scantily clad, rediculously proportioned women. People speak of bioshock like its high art but the gameplay is that of a typical fps. Not only that but the tech we have isnt all that impressive either. Transport yourself back to 1992 playing the SNES...If you would have thought about what gaming would be like in 2010, you would have probably said some virtual reality, photorealism type of stuff. Next-gen graphics arent even that good...I havent been wowed graphically by a game in a long time.

Developers need to take chances on subtle interactive experiences. Not every game has to be set in a war-torn country. Not every game needs guns. Why not make a game about a homeless kid in the punk rock scene just trying to survive. No save-the-world drama, just a simple story. That's the subtlety im talking about

Maybe I just set my expectations too high, but gaming to me really hasnt progressed all that much

same with movies. all it's been for decades is a camera just pointing at a bunch of stuff happening. sometimes its people talking, kissing or shooting at each other. its got really old now.

On the contrary, I believe gameplay is getting worse. Games are becoming more and more shallow to appeal to wider audiences. If you need examples, GTA: San Andreas to GTAIV, less features, smaller map area; Wow patch to patch, simplifying and dumbifying stats, class use, game difficulty, etc; FPS genre 2005-2010, each new FPS is more generic and demands less and less from the players in terms of team work, aiming abilitiy, and tactics. I think part of the reason Demon's Souls was so popular is because it is the first game that actually presented a real challenge in quite some time. By real challenge I mean you had to work hard to complete a section of the game, not now you need to do the same thing under ridiculous conditions for a lame achievement/trophy. Victory was actually gratifying, though DS may be an extreme case.

i know people that paid $150 for a home console that played pong so i have to disagree. you need to have more experence with what home consoles were in the past.

in addition if you wanted to change up the format a bit you can try the Japanese developed games then you can at least have a voluptious scantily clad man for a change hehehe...

Yeah who cares about the new "Create a map" mode, why cant we have a nice simple game.kris9031998

Look deeper than mainstream games dude. Gaming has come a LONG way.nintendo-4life

name some games then

Graphically gaming has come a long way,but for a hell of a lot of games, things like A.I,interactive and destructible environments and strorytelling are no more advanced than games from the PS1 era.

Graphically gaming has come a long way,but for a hell of a lot of games, things like A.I,interactive and destructible environments and strorytelling are no more advanced than games from the PS1 era.

stvee101

You are playing the wrong games then mate, especially for AI and destructible enviroments :|.

It never will. There will never be anything like the jump from 2D to 3D again.Parasomniac

This is why OoT remains the highest rated game of all time :P

TC: Have you played some Nintendo games? They are the ones doing wonders gameplay wise.

Play some Prime Trilogy, SMG/2, Wii Sports Resort and DS stylus games, in order to get the true next gen feel. Almost everything non Nintendo is basically an evolution of what has been done before, while Nintendo revolutionized gaming, which is what you are asking for right?

same with movies. all it's been for decades is a camera just pointing at a bunch of stuff happening. sometimes its people talking, kissing or shooting at each other. its got really old now.

Vinegar_Strokes

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]Look deeper than mainstream games dude. Gaming has come a LONG way.black_chamber99

name some games then

[QUOTE="stvee101"]

Graphically gaming has come a long way,but for a hell of a lot of games, things like A.I,interactive and destructible environments and strorytelling are no more advanced than games from the PS1 era.

SapSacPrime

You are playing the wrong games then mate, especially for AI and destructible environments :|.

Really? How many games this gen have destructible environments? And I mean truely destructible environments,being able to smash a floor tile or break the odd table doesn't count.

And as for A.I yes there are games with some great A.I,but many games do not. I've lost count of the amount of titles reviewed by GS where the games is lauded and was higly scored but the A.I is criticized in some way.Even big games like Halo 3 which had millions of dollars spent on it was criticized by GS because of poor A.I.

On the contrary, I believe gameplay is getting worse.

MajorGamer531

Agreed, with both this and the TC.

I suspect that gameplay is becoming so casual and formulaic because the new technology costs a hell of a lot of money to produce. Developers - especially console developers of big-budget titles - will generally avoid taking risks or doing anything different, especially when generic sequels (like Modern Warfare 2) are very likely to earn big bucks.

If they do anything too radical, they'll lose the casual market and thus a lot of money...which I guess is why I'm really starting to avoid mainstream gaming this gen.

I agree wiht the TC. The gaming industry is stuck in this "action hero" phase, and has been for too many years. Games have become too Michael Bay-ish. The majority of the developers don't realize the potential that games possess. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is a great example of what can be done with games other than shooting bad dudes repeatedly in the face. It actually tells a story that's very deep and touching.

No need to fix what is not broken.IronBass

Probably the best point made on here.

Yes i understand for some people certain games are boring butif you are bored of playing games where you kill people then get your ending then i have a tip for you. DON'T PLAY THEM...seems SIMPLE doesn't it. Other people like variety in their gaming, others like simplicity. I like both. Sports games for instance seem to be what you are looking for. Simplicity in the game but advanced in the gameplay.

Gaming has come far from the likes of paperboy and Sonic.They may have been the great games of their time and games that have set up the gamingworld for what it is butnobody wants a game like that nowadays. They want over the top action and epic games that make you go "WOW" everytime you leap across a canyon on games like Motorstorm orshoot a guy at 400 yards on COD.Jumping on arobotic bug orthrowing a paper at a door would justseem a waste of the technology that we have in this day and age.

In terms of graphics you clearly haven't played games such as Metal Gear Solid 4 and Heavy Rain. If you have then I believe you have something wrong with your eyes...

well look at it this way

in the movie industry, most of the inventiveness of the industry came in its first 10-20 years, but that didn't stop movies like 2001 A Space Odyssey from being made

You just described the growing pangs of modern mass media be it TV, movies, advertising, comics, even literature. Heck, they STILL cater to stereotypes and very black-and-white win/lose scenarios with feel-good endings. Video games are really no different. Why should they be?

This trend will change when people change.

You just described the growing pangs of modern mass media be it TV, movies, advertising, comics, even literature. Heck, they STILL cater to stereotypes and very black-and-white win/lose scenarios with feel-good endings. Video games are really no different. Why should they be?

This trend will change when people change.

VoodooHak

so you're saying it'll never happen?

From Run and Gun to FPS to a Hybrid of Run and Gun FPS.

From 2D Platformers to 3D Platformers.

From Duengon Crawler RPGs to Turn Based Open World RPGs.

Gaming has evolved but people that keep wanting "evolution" in games just make me sick. If the Game is fun then why evolve?

Heck some "gaming evolutions" just suck so much that they go back to what made a game good in the first place.

But that's not to say there shouldn't be any evolution. I just don't want something that completely changes the entire genre. The Legend of Zelda changes but it's core is still the same. going dungeon to dungeon and swinging your sword to kill enemies and gathering equipment. But then there's something like Mortal Kombat where it went from awesome 2D fighting with great Fatalities to Making your own Fatalities to just overall not being good.

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

You just described the growing pangs of modern mass media be it TV, movies, advertising, comics, even literature. Heck, they STILL cater to stereotypes and very black-and-white win/lose scenarios with feel-good endings. Video games are really no different. Why should they be?

This trend will change when people change.

black_chamber99

so you're saying it'll never happen?

There will always be exceptions, but for the most part, if it changes it all, it will be a slow evolution. They will still depend on all the tropes that have sustained all these media for decades.

I agree wiht the TC. The gaming industry is stuck in this "action hero" phase, and has been for too many years. Games have become too Michael Bay-ish. The majority of the developers don't realize the potential that games possess. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is a great example of what can be done with games other than shooting bad dudes repeatedly in the face. It actually tells a story that's very deep and touching.

OniStrat

most underrated game this gen IMO. good example of a dev thinking outside of the box with the use of the wii mote

considering Bioshock isn't typical fps gameplay, you talk about generic characters but the two games you made don't have any, and you spelt ridiculous wrong... makes me thing your argument isn't very well thought out.

[QUOTE="OniStrat"]

I agree wiht the TC. The gaming industry is stuck in this "action hero" phase, and has been for too many years. Games have become too Michael Bay-ish. The majority of the developers don't realize the potential that games possess. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is a great example of what can be done with games other than shooting bad dudes repeatedly in the face. It actually tells a story that's very deep and touching.

black_chamber99

most underrated game this gen IMO. good example of a dev thinking outside of the box with the use of the wii mote

I was playing a drunken session of RDR when I came to this sad realization. The tech has evolved but the forumla has always remained the same. It's like games have some inherent inferiority complex; very few games strive to provide anything more than instant gratification. Shallow entertainment. Kill a bunch of dudes and get your ending. This format hasnt changed since atari. Still the same character arhcetypes: big muscle men and scantily clad, rediculously proportioned women. People speak of bioshock like its high art but the gameplay is that of a typical fps. Not only that but the tech we have isnt all that impressive either. Transport yourself back to 1992 playing the SNES...If you would have thought about what gaming would be like in 2010, you would have probably said some virtual reality, photorealism type of stuff. Next-gen graphics arent even that good...I havent been wowed graphically by a game in a long time.

Developers need to take chances on subtle interactive experiences. Not every game has to be set in a war-torn country. Not every game needs guns. Why not make a game about a homeless kid in the punk rock scene just trying to survive. No save-the-world drama, just a simple story. That's the subtlety im talking about

Maybe I just set my expectations too high, but gaming to me really hasnt progressed all that much

black_chamber99

What would be an evolved game for you TC. Can you think of an ideas or do you just complain. It isn't easy is it.

I just think you are playing the wrong games. Indie games and mods are where most innovation has always happened and is still happening.

I'd say you have to look beyond the mainstream titles. Those are designed to sell to the casual crowd of gamers who want that instant gratification, and the big action scenes.

Now, that's not to say you will find a game without some sort of gratification about it. I can't recall one game like that, but I can't recall a single form of any entertainment that involves absolutely NO gratification. Whether it be you enjoying the characters of a movie, or being immersed in the imaginative scenes in a book, or rocking out to the guitar solo of a good song. It has to be there, or else people have no incentive to involve themselves with it.

But trust me there are games with subtle hints of gratification that don't come from shooting someone, or blowing up something, or tearing someone's head off. I've played games where all I did was maintain a farm, or go around a hotel searching for clues on the whereabouts of my old partner, or walk around a town looking for sailors, or be el Presidente of an island nation. There's many MANY more games beyond that, but the point is that you aren't going to find these games if all you do is keep up with the latest CoD game, or Rockstar game, or Space Marine Shooter #7034712. Each of my examples came from a different system, so don't think it's all limited to one. I'm sure you could find a game like that on any system.

It has changed from the begining, you can't deny that. Recently not so much as alot of ideas are alredy in the industry and now they're just evolving, guitar hero/rock band for example are just new versions of those old arcade dance machines. Also the recnet achievement trend is just a new version of top score board developed so anyone can say their above someone else with out the other person saying there are still 70000 people ranked higher than them. Developemnts have been made but they are all small developemnts on the same old themes.

As for general themes that's because that's where the money is, big publishers can't afford to risk cash on big projects that don't sell. Shooters always sell no matter how generic they are therefore they're made in huge quantities.

Oh and just picking on the "rediculously proportioned women". Personally i think they should start adding more clothes rather than removing them and adding jiggle physics, lack of clothes makes them sexy, adding clothes promotes intimacy providing more emotional connection for the story to play with.

Actually, not not at all. Games have evolved a LOT.

There are new game mechanics, new types of games, new objectives in games, new ways to play games that what we didn't have in the Atari era, the NES era and even the SNES era, so, i'm sorry, but i'm not agree at all with you TC.

This is a really interesting thread and some great points were made, but I don't see anyone listing any of these indie games with great innovation. The only game people have talked about is Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.

What other games are out there for people looking to change things up?

Game went from this:

To this:

In just about 20 years.

Think about games will be in another 20...when the graphics are maxed...

I see no reason to think that.

Game went from this:

To this:

In just about 20 years.

Think about games will be in another 20...when the graphics are maxed...

WiiMan21

and yet the fundemental goal of both games remains the same: Compete and win

Take a game a game like flower. That's an example of a game with a radical concept. You dont compete, there are no high scores. The gratification doesnt come from 'beating' the game, it comes from the experience itself. There should be more games thinking outside of the box like this.

[QUOTE="WiiMan21"]

Game went from this:

To this:

In just about 20 years.

Think about games will be in another 20...when the graphics are maxed...

black_chamber99

and yet the fundemental goal of both games remains the same: Compete and win

Take a game a game like flower. That's an example of a game with a radical concept. You dont compete, there are no high scores. The gratification doesnt come from 'beating' the game, it comes from the experience itself. There should be more games thinking outside of the box like this.

Gaming is to have fun, not neccessarily win.

With that logic, you can say that the concept of anything hasn't changed.

Cars aren't changing because all they do is get you places.

Toilet paper is not getting any different because all it does is wipe your ass.

The basic formula for how to make an entertaining game was mastered by quite a few people. Since then it's just been evolving tech, and I think evolution in technology has done a beautiful job of bringing out the true potential in gaming. While it may not be evident in all games, in some great progress has been shown. Lemme show you a few ways gaming has evolved.

Demon's Souls

What did it do? It took new technology available (i.e. powerful internet) and incorporated it to enhance the game. This type of thing greatly enhances the experience the game provides. Was this possible years ago? No, and hence you never saw it. Advancing tech brought out true potential here.

Crysis

Was it even possible to create game experiences this immersive back in the day? Well maybe, but it took a ridiculous amount of talent and a great writer, something not seen much. With the ability to produce near photo-realistic graphics, the immersion of games has increased. This also enhances the game as a whole.

Just two examples, I'll maybe put some more later. But you're partially right: maybe at the core of things gaming hasn't fully evolved, but the advancing technology has forced gaming forward.

And hell sometimes the evolution I see has nothing to do with tech...

Machinarium

The adventure/puzzle genre is nothing new, it was the biggest thing out there about 15-20 years ago. But Machinarium, an indie game that came out last year, bests all of them (only POSSIBLE exception being Secret of Monkey Island, and I played the Special Edition so I don't know about the original). Why? Well maybe it has a little to do with tech, graphics like this weren't entirely possible a while ago, but they have been for at least a bit over 10 years. So what is it? It's evolution in gameplay, such clever nuances and genius subtleties that have arisen out of gaming once the foundation was set.

By the way was very hesitant to get this game, took me months to decide if I wanted. Needed a game to entertain me on my computer for a week so I tried it: GET THIS GAME. Support an indie dev, this game is absolutely genius, and retains the comedy of old adventure games, but cuts the BS like endless dialogue scenes. That's another area gaming has evolved: storytelling, which I'll get to in my last example.

Shadow of the Colossus

Let's get one thing straight: SotC's gameplay, while perfectly adequate, is not that special. I've seen plenty of games with better gameplay. But I have not seen many games better than it. Why? The atmosphere is an obvious pick. The epic feeling of being a lone hero taking down massive beasts is too. And ya, the gameplay itself is pretty fun. But the #1 reason I love this game: the storytelling. Back in the 16-bit days the only method of storytelling was through dialogue. Everyone made epic RPGs with endless cutscenes explaining what was happening. SotC completely innovates this method, leaving it all to the mind of the gamer, telling a deep story through subtlety and surroundings (seriously look up an interpretation of it). This wasn't being done years ago. They could've, I mean what was stopping them? You don't need top of the line hardware to do this, I mean the PS2 itself wasn't that powerful. It's an evolution in gaming.

I'd mention Braid too but I think that's a given.

So maybe gaming as an art form hasn't ALL evolved, but you can't say it hasn't come a long way. In both subtle and huge ways, both through genius game design and advancing technology, gaming is evolving.

"photorealism type stuff."

Crysis in 3d with the Extreme Quality Mod anyone?

gaming is still very limted and has very little origianl content .

San Andreas to GTAIV,MajorGamer531

"photorealism type stuff."

Crysis in 3d with the Extreme Quality Mod anyone?

ChubbyGuy40

crysis is not close to photorealism. we're still a long way from that

Games have actually come a long way with improved graphics, controls, new genres, etc. You are just worrying for the future because you believe that gaming has hit the wall for creativity. I already answered your question so I'll provide some of the console maker's opinions on this at the start of this generation.

Nintendo: Graphics can only go so far, we don't want to limit creativity with production costs, simplicity like Tetris is a good thing, we want to give a new experience to everyone! (and then we will capture their loyalty and slowly bring them up the ladder of quality quality gaming and prepare them for next gen)

Microsoft & Sony: We will use our brand names and add more horsepower!

considering Bioshock isn't typical fps gameplay, you talk about generic characters but the two games you made don't have any, and you spelt ridiculous wrong... makes me thing your argument isn't very well thought out.

savagetwinkie

Perhaps, but Bioshock's gameplay didn't really do anything new, as far as I can remember. If anything it was basically just a step 'backwards' for gaming, becoming more like a generic shooter and less like the complex RPG/shooter hybrid that System Shock 2 was.

I think there will always be original games and unoriginal games. The original games have come a very long way. The unoriginal games have been progressing backwards.