Zelda TP is the last of its kind, but will it be the last N franchise to get hit

To start it off...

http://insider.ign.com/teasers/756/756284.html

So, the trend is showing that Zelda will most likely, be some casual, easy to finish game rather than an adventure. Miyamoto had said before this gen started...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9318

"Speaking in an interview with CNN, Miyamoto said: "There's not a lot I want to play now. A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as Halo or Grand Theft Auto, that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play," he observed."

When this trend starts to hit the other big franchises, what will you do sheep? Donkey Kong is pretty much dead in a minigame loop or some lame kiddy racing game, Mario has more minigame iterations than an actual platforming game, and Zelda will get casualized into a 10 minute per mini-adventure game.

Expecting Metroid Party? Zelda Party?

The end of your franchises are being brought down by the Wii. Nintendo's "Epic Long" games won't make any cash for them and they will cut the string and start making games that are worth while. So will you sheeps weep if this turn of event happens and will you still defend the "casual" side of Nintendo in terms of this argument?

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

Gangans

Miyamoto, your saviour, says otherwise.

this coming someone who constantly bashes the wii...... riiiight...dirty_diaz

Miyamoto bashes the Wii? Amazing.

[QUOTE="Gangans"]

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

NobuoMusicMaker

Miyamoto, your saviour, says otherwise.

No you're saying otherwise. If miyamoto says he wants to make zelda more accessible, it doesn't mean he will target the game at 3 year olds.

Do you really think somebody as talented as him, with as much skill and experience as him, is going to all of a sudden start making games for babies?

When he says he wants to target everyone with his games, that is a good thing, everyone= everyone. SO the game may have a kid theme, be reasonably challenging in places, provide enough variety and content to be fun FOR ALL, not just babies. Seriously what is it with you 'hardcore' game hobbyists?

And zelda wouldn't be zelda wihout puzzles, adventure and some degree of exploration. Anything else wouldn't be zelda. Are you implying miyamoto will cancell the zelda franchise, one of the most successfull in the world? I want some of what you're smoking amigo.

To start it off...

http://insider.ign.com/teasers/756/756284.html

So, the trend is showing that Zelda will most likely, be some casual, easy to finish game rather than an adventure. Miyamoto had said before this gen started...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9318

"Speaking in an interview with CNN, Miyamoto said: "There's not a lot I want to play now. A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as Halo or Grand Theft Auto, that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play," he observed."

When this trend starts to hit the other big franchises, what will you do sheep? Donkey Kong is pretty much dead in a minigame loop or some lame kiddy racing game, Mario has more minigame iterations than an actual platforming game, and Zelda will get casualized into a 10 minute per mini-adventure game.

Expecting Metroid Party? Zelda Party?

The end of your franchises are being brought down by the Wii. Nintendo's "Epic Long" games won't make any cash for them and they will cut the string and start making games that are worth while. So will you sheeps weep if this turn of event happens and will you still defend the "casual" side of Nintendo in terms of this argument?

NobuoMusicMaker

if thats true then I'm straight

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Gangans"]

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

Gangans

Miyamoto, your saviour, says otherwise.

No you're saying otherwise. If miyamoto says he wants to make zelda more accessible, it doesn't mean he will target the game at 3 year olds.

Do you really think somebody as talented as him, with as much skill and experience as him, is going to all of a sudden start making games for babies?

When he says he wants to target everyone with his games, that is a good thing, everyone= everyone. SO the game may have a kid theme, be reasonably challenging in places, provide enough variety and content to be fun FOR ALL, not just babies. Seriously what is it with you 'hardcore' game hobbyists?

And zelda wouldn't be zelda wihout puzzles, adventure and some degree of exploration. Anything else wouldn't be zelda. Are you implying miyamoto will cancell the zelda franchise, one of the most successfull in the world? I want some of what you're smoking amigo.

For the sake of money, talent has no place. I'm not going to argue that I think his games aren't even innovative, but since you guys defend "casual" 3rd party minigames because that's all 3rd party devs want to put on the Wii, what would happen if all your "not-as-sellable" hardcore titles get demolished for the sake of money.

The question is IF not has. Please look past your fanboyism and consider the argument.

Editing in your edit: Yes, Zelda won't be Zelda without those Zelda components. So the game would be destroyed. That's exactly what I'm saying. And Zelda didn't help sell Gamecubes so successful is up in questions. If Zelda TP wasn't a launch title in a Wii drought of games, then you can bet that some minigame will sell better than Zelda TP. If Wii Sports was seperate from the package, it would sell better than Zelda. Miyamoto will be looking to make some "fun" rather than "epically boring" Zelda which would cash-in money because that's all N cares about.

Ok, firstly, what do casual gamers like? Swearing and violence, if GTA is any indicator of this (and it should be - the GTA series is one of the best-selling 'casual' video game series ever - hell, the latest one is full of minigames!). Becoming 'more casual' can mean anything, and that isn't even the case here (it's just a rumour!).

Secondly, from what I remember, Miyamoto made the Zelda games because he liked the concept of a 'grand adventure' - he's not just going to throw away one of the most highly acclaimed video games series ever. Nintendo are addressing the complaints of the fans by changing the design of the series, yes, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The end of your franchises are being brought down by the Wii.NobuoMusicMaker

Wait, weren't you just arguing that Nintendo games could potentially become more casual because Miyamoto doesn't like long games?? How is the Wii to blame for his opinions?

Nintendo's "Epic Long" games won't make any cash for them and they will cut the string and start making games that are worth while.NobuoMusicMaker

...and you base this assumption on...? Nothing? Their best-selling games have always been their 'epic long' Zelda action-adventure games, and their Mario platformers.

So will you sheeps weep if this turn of event happens and will you still defend the "casual" side of Nintendo in terms of this argument?NobuoMusicMaker

It's "sheep". The plural of 'sheep' is 'sheep'. Why don't fanboys ever get these basic grammatical principles correct?

...and if Nintendo does decide to do something as ridiculous as 'casual'-ise all of their game series, then no, I don't think many sheep would continue buying their games. They know that, too...which is why it won't happen.

Why are you gloating about your own grim predictions? You DO realise that if what you're telling is true, allthough I highley doubt it, your precious PS4/XBOX720 will do the same thing. If Nintendo drops long epic games for short simple games to make tons of money, what makes you think sony an ms won't follow suit?

Sure, they "CARE" about games the would never abandon the hard core for a quick buck. They will keep on making long epic games that don't make money, while nintendo mini games them selves to the bank! /sarcas.

To me games have become too long. They are either games i've seen before, or games that take too long to get into and finish.
Sorry for letting the long epic games players down, but i've had it with those games, so i wish him the best of luck.

(Of course ultimately i would like to see a virtual world adhering to our reality, changing according to our desires. But would that be one longlasting epic journey, or would it be more like an endless collection of fulfilled desires? I think a bit of both.)

remember that other interview where he said that they don't usually listen to what their audience want? Well this is just what he meant with it. They're NOT going to make zelda a minigame franchise just because it would sell more.Son_of_Some

And which audience would that be? The hardcore audience or the MUCH more broader minigame casual audience.

Planeforger - It's not a speculation, it's a theory argument. What if the worst happens to N franchises? What would you do. Obviously you can't read because I didn't say, the N franchises WILL go down.

It's "sheep". The plural of 'sheep' is 'sheep'. Why don't fanboys ever get these basic grammatical principles correct?

...and if Nintendo does decide to do something as ridiculous as 'casual'-ise all of their game series, then no, I don't think many sheep would continue buying their games. They know that, too...which is why it won't happen.

Planeforger

Sorry, but sheeps on SW aren't actual sheep.

To me games have become too long. They are either games i've seen before, or games that take too long to get into and finish.
Sorry for letting the long epic games players down, but i've had it with those games, so i wish him the best of luck.

(Of course ultimately i would like to see a virtual world adhering to our reality, changing according to our desires, but would that really be one longlasting epic world, or would it be more like an endless collection of fulfilled desires to us?)

KungfuKitten

There, see, this person wants the end of Zelda and Metroid. What will you say to these people?

[QUOTE="Gangans"]

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

NobuoMusicMaker

Miyamoto, your saviour, says otherwise.

Miyamoto never said anything of the sort. He's stated many times that although casuals are important,

so are the hardcore, and metroid, mario, and zelda (to name the huge franchises) ,will always remain a

single player experience.

So...this thread is based on speculation that the Zelda series may possibly become 'more casual'?

Ok, firstly, what do casual gamers like? Swearing and violence, if GTA is any indicator of this (and it should be - the GTA series is one of the best-selling 'casual' video game series ever - hell, the latest one is full of minigames!). Becoming 'more casual' can mean anything, and that isn't even the case here (it's just a rumour!).

Secondly, from what I remember, Miyamoto made the Zelda games because he liked the concept of a 'grand adventure' - he's not just going to throw away one of the most highly acclaimed video games series ever. Nintendo are addressing the complaints of the fans by changing the design of the series, yes, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"]The end of your franchises are being brought down by the Wii.Planeforger

Wait, weren't you just arguing that Nintendo games could potentially become more casual because Miyamoto doesn't like long games?? How is the Wii to blame for his opinions?

Nintendo's "Epic Long" games won't make any cash for them and they will cut the string and start making games that are worth while.NobuoMusicMaker

...and you base this assumption on...? Nothing? Their best-selling games have always been their 'epic long' Zelda action-adventure games, and their Mario platformers.

So will you sheeps weep if this turn of event happens and will you still defend the "casual" side of Nintendo in terms of this argument?NobuoMusicMaker

It's "sheep". The plural of 'sheep' is 'sheep'. Why don't fanboys ever get these basic grammatical principles correct?

...and if Nintendo does decide to do something as ridiculous as 'casual'-ise all of their game series, then no, I don't think many sheep would continue buying their games. They know that, too...which is why it won't happen.

TC = OWNED

Well, if what I've seen from Mario Galaxy is any indication, it does seem like Nintendo is changing their classic franchises in order to make them easier to play (Read: Let's face it - they're dumbing it down. Though that's not to say it won't be a good game.)

I wouldn't be surprised if that philosophy started affecting their other franchises as well, though I won't worry until it actually happens.

However, does anyone else notice that Nintendo never mentions the "Core Gamer" anymore. Before the Wii launched, Nintendo kept reiterating, "We're committed to catering to both new mainstream gamers, and what we call 'The Core Gamer.'" I haven't heard them say that once.

And if Project H.A.M.M.E.R. actually is cancelled - well, it just doesn't look too good for the people who want some substantial gaming on their Wii.

Well, if what I've seen from Mario Galaxy is any indication, it does seem like Nintendo is changing their classic franchises in order to make them easier to play (Read: Let's face it - they're dumbing it down. Though that's not to say it won't be a good game.)

I wouldn't be surprised if that philosophy started affecting their other franchises as well, though I won't worry until it actually happens.

However, does anyone else notice that Nintendo never mentions the "Core Gamer" anymore. Before the Wii launched, Nintendo kept reiterating, "We're committed to catering to both new mainstream gamers, and what we call 'The Core Gamer.'" I haven't heard them say that once.

And if Project H.A.M.M.E.R. actually is cancelled - well, it just doesn't look too good for the people who want some substantial gaming on their Wii.

AtomicLightbulb

MARIO GALAXY DUMBED DOWN?????!??!?!

SO do tell, how is mario galaxy dumbed down compared to mario 64 or sunshine?

Wake up and smell the coffee! It's morning!

[QUOTE="AtomicLightbulb"]

Well, if what I've seen from Mario Galaxy is any indication, it does seem like Nintendo is changing their classic franchises in order to make them easier to play (Read: Let's face it - they're dumbing it down. Though that's not to say it won't be a good game.)

I wouldn't be surprised if that philosophy started affecting their other franchises as well, though I won't worry until it actually happens.

However, does anyone else notice that Nintendo never mentions the "Core Gamer" anymore. Before the Wii launched, Nintendo kept reiterating, "We're committed to catering to both new mainstream gamers, and what we call 'The Core Gamer.'" I haven't heard them say that once.

And if Project H.A.M.M.E.R. actually is cancelled - well, it just doesn't look too good for the people who want some substantial gaming on their Wii.

Gangans

MARIO GALAXY DUMBED DOWN?????!??!?!

SO do tell, how is mario galaxy dumbed down compared to mario 64 or sunshine?

Wake up and smell the coffee! It's morning!

I'm just judging based on the gameplay footage I've seen. It seems like much of the adventure is automated. You're not really in control, you just the Wii controls to manipulate movement that's pre-planned. They're just doesn't seem to be much depth in a game that's about jumping from mini-planet to mini-planet. And while I never played Sunshine, Mario 64 was an epic adventure - one that was actually quite deep.

[QUOTE="Gangans"][QUOTE="AtomicLightbulb"]

Well, if what I've seen from Mario Galaxy is any indication, it does seem like Nintendo is changing their classic franchises in order to make them easier to play (Read: Let's face it - they're dumbing it down. Though that's not to say it won't be a good game.)

I wouldn't be surprised if that philosophy started affecting their other franchises as well, though I won't worry until it actually happens.

However, does anyone else notice that Nintendo never mentions the "Core Gamer" anymore. Before the Wii launched, Nintendo kept reiterating, "We're committed to catering to both new mainstream gamers, and what we call 'The Core Gamer.'" I haven't heard them say that once.

And if Project H.A.M.M.E.R. actually is cancelled - well, it just doesn't look too good for the people who want some substantial gaming on their Wii.

AtomicLightbulb

MARIO GALAXY DUMBED DOWN?????!??!?!

SO do tell, how is mario galaxy dumbed down compared to mario 64 or sunshine?

Wake up and smell the coffee! It's morning!

I'm just judging based on the gameplay footage I've seen. It seems like much of the adventure is automated. You're not really in control, you just the Wii controls to manipulate movement that's pre-planned. They're just doesn't seem to be much depth in a game that's about jumping from mini-planet to mini-planet. And while I never played Sunshine, Mario 64 was an epic adventure - one that was actually quite deep.

IT adds even more dimensions thus complexity to the mix, yet this is balance dout my more flexibile controlls.

Mario galaxy looks far more intricate than sunshine, so many more gameplay possibilities abound!

[QUOTE="Gangans"][QUOTE="NobuoMusicMaker"][QUOTE="Gangans"]

Zelda will continue to be a high quality series. It will continue to emphasise the single player adventure. I am not worried.

NobuoMusicMaker

I'll tell you what you should do if you want more "hardcore games", you should go out and buy a few million copies of LoZ: TP, and that'll show them that hardcores will still support them. "Hardcores" bought sweet damn all thrid party games for the N64 and GC, and they whine about how third parties don't support Nintendo, as though it's Nintendo's fault you didn't buy the games. And maybe you sshould have bought Nintendo's "hardcore" games in higher nubers, andthey might have been more inclined to make you some more. They've found a market much larger and much more likely to make money, and I can't say i'm too pleased about it, but at least I can admit it's the hardcore gamers own fault.

Miyamoto, your saviour, says otherwise.

No you're saying otherwise. If miyamoto says he wants to make zelda more accessible, it doesn't mean he will target the game at 3 year olds.

Do you really think somebody as talented as him, with as much skill and experience as him, is going to all of a sudden start making games for babies?

When he says he wants to target everyone with his games, that is a good thing, everyone= everyone. SO the game may have a kid theme, be reasonably challenging in places, provide enough variety and content to be fun FOR ALL, not just babies. Seriously what is it with you 'hardcore' game hobbyists?

And zelda wouldn't be zelda wihout puzzles, adventure and some degree of exploration. Anything else wouldn't be zelda. Are you implying miyamoto will cancell the zelda franchise, one of the most successfull in the world? I want some of what you're smoking amigo.

For the sake of money, talent has no place. I'm not going to argue that I think his games aren't even innovative, but since you guys defend "casual" 3rd party minigames because that's all 3rd party devs want to put on the Wii, what would happen if all your "not-as-sellable" hardcore titles get demolished for the sake of money.

The question is IF not has. Please look past your fanboyism and consider the argument.

Editing in your edit: Yes, Zelda won't be Zelda without those Zelda components. So the game would be destroyed. That's exactly what I'm saying. And Zelda didn't help sell Gamecubes so successful is up in questions. If Zelda TP wasn't a launch title in a Wii drought of games, then you can bet that some minigame will sell better than Zelda TP. If Wii Sports was seperate from the package, it would sell better than Zelda. Miyamoto will be looking to make some "fun" rather than "epically boring" Zelda which would cash-in money because that's all N cares about.

When he says he wants to target everyone with his games, that is a good thing, everyone= everyone. SO the game may have a kid theme, be reasonably challenging in places, provide enough variety and content to be fun FOR ALL, not just babies. Seriously what is it with you 'hardcore' game hobbyists?Gangans

I disagree with it necessarily being a good thing that a game targets everyone (apart from from the developers perspective. If a game decides to start targeting a wide spectrum of the audience that will result in dumbing down most of the time and will lead to a game which could have been much better if targeting a smaller group. I dont care whether other people enjoy the game, only if I am, which is why I'm sceptical when a game expands its target audience, because compromise is inevitable.

You said it yourself "SO the game may have a kid theme, be reasonably challenging in places, provide enough variety and content to be fun FOR ALL, not just babies.", I don't want a game being " reasonably challenging in places" just so little timmy can have it a little easier.

Though I very much doubt nintendo will do this to zelda, I just disagree with the idea that its somehow OK for it to happen...

If Nintendo makes a Zelda based mini-game spinoff, I'll sell my Wii and never support them again.
True Storynadirb1

True.... well, it's only really true for me if they stop making the traditional sort of Zeldas all together. If they made another proper game in the series and a minigame spinoff I wouldn't care... but if the minigame spinoff is all they release that would be all she wrote for me.

"Speaking in an interview with CNN, Miyamoto said: "There's not a lot I want to play now. A lot of the games out there are just too long. Of course, there are games, such as Halo or Grand Theft Auto, that are big and expansive. But if you're not interested in spending that time with them, you're not going to play," he observed."

Mr Miyamoto, there are such things in big games called SAVE POINTS, where it lets you come back and play another day from the same spot.. The solution for people who don't like big games isnt to make games shorter, you just have to put frequent save points in the game and there you go.... but they already exist in almost every game today... So stop BSing..

IT adds even more dimensions thus complexity to the mix, yet this is balance dout my more flexibile controlls.

Mario galaxy looks far more intricate than sunshine, so many more gameplay possibilities abound!

Gangans

Not more gameplay possibilities, just new ones. They took out everything that was Mario and making it into a new, tacky Wiimote Mario. I see absolutely no platforming in everything I seen about SMG.

[QUOTE="Gangans"]

IT adds even more dimensions thus complexity to the mix, yet this is balance dout my more flexibile controlls.

Mario galaxy looks far more intricate than sunshine, so many more gameplay possibilities abound!

NobuoMusicMaker

Not more gameplay possibilities, just new ones. They took out everything that was Mario and making it into a new, tacky Wiimote Mario. I see absolutely no platforming in everything I seen about SMG.

If you didn't see any platforming in SMG than you didn't look hard enough or you didn't want to see it. Matter a fact you just didn't want to see it. In the vids I saw there was plenty of platforming.