Is fearing god a good thing?

Fear is incompatible with love, so no, not in the modern sense of the word.  At the time the books in the Bible were written, "to fear" was basically synonymous with "to revere" (the word "revere" comes from the Latin word vereri, which contains both of these meanings), which has led to no end of confusion and misunderstanding as people look at the commands in the Bible and think that we're supposed to be deathly afraid of God.

I think it's good in some cases, but fearing god like you're scared of god is just insane in my opnion. What do you think?ghoklebutter

I think people fear either because they think they will be done harm, or that they don't understand something. 

What cases do you think can make fearing God better than not being fearful?

God is your heavenly father compared to your earthly father. Even your earthly father, you should be afraid of, since if you do something wrong, he will condemn you for it. The heavenly father is the same way, although he deals with the same earthly affairs as well as eternal affairs.

At least that's true with Christianity. 

No. A fear of God implies a lack of understanding and inability to learn. It also promotes ignorance and blind acceptance. And the most important thing about religion is understanding why you believe in God and accept his/her/its teachings.

~~~

I know this seems redundant, but from what I know about Hinduism, the focus is on always striving to understand God (that is for the most part, either Brahman or Krsna/Visnu/Siva/Sakti), why God "is" and why it is important to uphold God's standards and be respectful and compassionate. Not to just "accept" God through faith, and fear God's wrath if you are "bad."

As an outlined idea contained within the Bhagavad Gita and many of the Upanishads, living life "properly," according to one's dharma (duty) is essential. The entire structure of an "ideal" Hindu lifestyIe (the ashramas), is a person must live for 25 years as a "student" (of the Vedas), 25 years as a "house-holder" (creating a family to continue on your line), 25 years as a forest hermit with the wife (to promote religiosity) and 25 years as an ascetic/yogi (to promote knowledge of Brahman/God and reach moksha, or liberation from samsara).

All throughout this time, one must live in constant mindset that you are doing everything "for God" (the practice of Bhakti Yoga, or the practice of life as veneration of God (Krsna mostly)) and realize why you as a human being, with atman (or divine soul) are capable of doing these things for God. Not just going about your life in constant fear of God, but under the impression that God will always love you and make sure to help you uphold your dharma (like Arjuna being coached by Krsna in the Gita).

I could go on and on about Hinduism, but I'll just leave it at that.foxhound_fox

And does the hindu God not punish?

And islam also has an incredibly datailed "outline" of living your life from the cradle to the grave...

Also with the amount of suffering in this world, God is simply not an all out good guy, He simply ISNT. There is no incredulity in it, we can all create our loving Gods...

Absolutely. Imagine a world without fear, where everyone do as they wish. It would be chaos.woonsa

What cases do you think can make fearing God better than not being fearful?

RationalAtheist

1) Are you trying to say that the abrahamic religions arent about what you described of hinduism??
2) Which religion is about the "constant fear of God"?
3) And does the hindu God not punish?
4) And islam also has an incredibly datailed "outline" of living your life from the cradle to the grave...
5) Also with the amount of suffering in this world, God is simply not an all out good guy, He simply ISNT. There is no incredulity in it, we can all create our loving Gods... Gambler_3

The ominipotent God is what I am refering to. If God isnt omnipotent like the hindu God then why bother worshipping?

What effect is it claimed to have on your life if one could give a rats ass about God in hinduism?

The problem with karma is the starting point, if you dont believe in the four rishes and how everything was perfectly fair in the start then the whole thing falls apart as far as the "all-goodness" of God is concerned...

The very nature which governs living organisms is extremely cruel and brutal, who created that nature? Not God?

1)The ominipotent God is what I am refering to. If God isnt omnipotent like the hindu God then why bother worshipping?

2) What effect is it claimed to have on your life if one could give a rats ass about God in hinduism?

3) The problem with karma is the starting point, if you dont believe in the four rishes and how everything was perfectly fair in the start then the whole thing falls apart as far as the "all-goodness" of God is concerned...

4) The very nature which governs living organisms is extremely cruel and brutal, who created that nature? Not God?

Gambler_3

4) Well considering that despite there being "creation" myths within Hinduism, most (modern, educated) Hindu's will probably tell you that those stories are merely for educational purposes on the topic of morality, and that the actual makeup of the universe itself falls more in line with the currently accepted scientific model.

Hinduism is a method of understanding the universe and the reason why humanity is not only "here" but why we are capable of complex thought. There are tons of varying schools of thought within Hinduism itself that disagree on many issues (see: Advaita, Dvaita and Viśishṭādvaita Vedānta).

The point I am trying to get across is that Hindu's do not "fear" God, the concept of "God" within Hinduism is not a "wrathful" or "retributive" one and that fear of God leads only to ignorance and misunderstanding. It is essential that one who ascribes to a religion, understand the true meaning of that religion and not fall victim to unreasonable thoughts or practices.

1. And why should I bother with what Bhakti Yoga did? How is he any different than muhammad and jesus?

3. Good people dont always get good things and are often treated miserably, the leap of faith of afterlife has to come in to resue that which makes it no different than hell and heaven.

4. Cop-out cop-out cop-out and a massive one just like adam eve. These stories are simply an attempt to make things fair so God can seem fair. It is an attempt to answer why God creates people unequal. Natural selection has shown us that it was never meant to be fair in any way...how do those educated people know that they were meant to be educational stories?

So hindu God is incapable of inflicting his wrath and no wonder hindus dont fear God. Am I missing something?

1. And why should I bother with what Bhakti Yoga did? How is he any different than muhammad and jesus?

3. Good people dont always get good things and are often treated miserably, the leap of faith of afterlife has to come in to resue that which makes it no different than hell and heaven.

4. Cop-out cop-out cop-out and a massive one just like adam eve. These stories are simply an attempt to make things fair so God can seem fair. It is an attempt to answer why God creates people unequal. Natural selection has shown us that it was never meant to be fair in any way...how do those educated people know that they were meant to be educational stories?

5. So hindu God is incapable of inflicting his wrath and no wonder hindus dont fear God. Am I missing something?

 

Gambler_3

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]I think it's good in some cases, but fearing god like you're scared of god is just insane in my opnion. What do you think?RationalAtheist

I think people fear either because they think they will be done harm, or that they don't understand something. 

What cases do you think can make fearing God better than not being fearful?

I don't accept fear of god per se, but I think consciousness of god is good. The only good thing I can think of from fearing god is self-restraint. But even then it's ridiculous to be honest.

[QUOTE="woonsa"]Absolutely. Imagine a world without fear, where everyone do as they wish. It would be chaos.Gambler_3

That was what I was implying. Looks like I misread the topic, I didn't read the first post :P But still, both are equal in my opinion. God = Morality = Law (in most cases)

3. Positive actions dont always bring positive results, we have verfifiable evidence of that and there is no if and but or incredulity about it.

4. I would if they were always taken like that. Most people considered them to be "fact" before science proved it wrong then all of a sudden the metaphorical comes in.:roll:

Just because they have a much bigger value when taken metaphorically doesnt mean that it is the way the founders meant it to be. So if one day science proves(although not happening) that God doesnt exist, people will say that God was just a parable to instill morals and to give a sense of purpose right?

Wow did you really just say that the hindu creation story could possibly be true? Do you even know what it is?:?

Nothing is 100% certain but we should only be humble to an extent, you are taking it too far.

Again what a terrible argument is this? They provide answers to people that science doesnt? You know why? Because these are merely self assuring stories with zero evidence, that is the case with every religion not just hinduism. 

There is no "why" to our existence atleast not that we know of yet. We give our life whatever purpose we want to, just because a religious story seems most desirible does not in any way make it any more true. You dont need to go to religion for philosophy.

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Well you brought up hinduism and passed it off as if it is leaps and bounds different and superior than other religions which I have failed to see.

3. Positive actions dont always bring positive results, we have verfifiable evidence of that and there is no if and but or incredulity about it.

4. I would if they were always taken like that. Most people considered them to be "fact" before science proved it wrong then all of a sudden the metaphorical comes in.:roll:

5. Just because they have a much bigger value when taken metaphorically doesnt mean that it is the way the founders meant it to be. So if one day science proves(although not happening) that God doesnt exist, people will say that God was just a parable to instill morals and to give a sense of purpose right?

6. Wow did you really just say that the hindu creation story could possibly be true? Do you even know what it is?:?

7. Nothing is 100% certain but we should only be humble to an extent, you are taking it too far.

8. Again what a terrible argument is this? They provide answers to people that science doesnt? You know why? Because these are merely self assuring stories with zero evidence, that is the case with every religion not just hinduism. 

9. There is no "why" to our existence atleast not that we know of yet. We give our life whatever purpose we want to, just because a religious story seems most desirible does not in any way make it any more true. You dont need to go to religion for philosophy.

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10. Well you brought up hinduism and passed it off as if it is leaps and bounds different and superior than other religions which I have failed to see.

Gambler_3

'A God-fearing person' stated as a virtue, is a pretty rotten ethic, as it inevitably implies that one is acting out of compulsion of fear, and a lack of their true will, rather than truly acting for a cause they believe in.

So no, I don't really see any benefit of 'fear', well from the perspective of a human. From the perspective of God, I would say that fear is a marvelous thing.

3. I am not claiming this as "fact." Not only that, but both cause and effect, and karma do not work directly on events leading into one another. A positive action now, may not bring a positive result for a very long time... it could take many hundreds of years (in reference to a scientific cause & effect) or several life-times (in terms of a Hindu perspective). I think the point of karma, within the perspective of Hinduism, seems to be "you reap what you sew" and to act positively all the time, so that you can make sure that the results of your actions will almost always be positive.

foxhound_fox

I agree.

Foxhound as far as I understood your OP you simply passed off people who feared God as having a lack of understanding, inabilitiy to learn and possibly blind and ignorant. You then went on about how hindus dont fear God and all that. But what was your point?

Are you trying to say that hindus are more rational or somethin? That's what I thought you meant and that is just not right. You cant simply nitpik the fear of God thing as it is something one's religion tells them. Hindus simply dont believe in such a God so why would they fear? Christians and muslims believe in a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and who destryed the whole of humanity(naoh's event) just because people were "sinning". If you believe in such a God, how can you possibly not be afraid? It is only rational for you to be afraid of the abrahimic God if you believe in him.

You can say that believing in christianity or islam is irrational all you want, but you cant just nitpick the fear of God. Being a hindu requires alot more leaps of blind faith than it ever does with being a muslim. Muslims or christians who arent afraid of God either dont really believe in one or simply believe in a different character of God than the one depicted in the bible and quran. 

Foxhound as far as I understood your OP you simply passed off people who feared God as having a lack of understanding, inabilitiy to learn and possibly blind and ignorant. You then went on about how hindus dont fear God and all that. But what was your point?Gambler_3

Are you trying to say that hindus are more rational or somethin? That's what I thought you meant and that is just not right. You cant simply nitpik the fear of God thing as it is something one's religion tells them. Hindus simply dont believe in such a God so why would they fear? Christians and muslims believe in a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and who destryed the whole of humanity(naoh's event) just because people were "sinning". If you believe in such a God, how can you possibly not be afraid? It is only rational for you to be afraid of the abrahimic God if you believe in him.

You can say that believing in christianity or islam is irrational all you want, but you cant just nitpick the fear of God.Gambler_3

Being a hindu requires alot more leaps of blind faith than it ever does with being a muslim. Muslims or christians who arent afraid of God either dont really believe in one or simply believe in a different character of God than the one depicted in the bible and quran.  Gambler_3

Fearing god is natural during repentance, because you're afraid of what might happen to you. Other than that, there is no need to (so long as you have repented from all your sins). As Gabuex pointed out, perfected love casts out fear.

My point was exactly that... to answer the question posed by the OP. :|
foxhound_fox

And why can't I express that I think theylack understanding about their religion (quote taken out of context), an inability to learn(about other religions or ideas) and being blind and ignorant (to the truth).

foxhound_fox

And fear of God IS an important part of the abrahimic religions, there is no doubt about it as the scriptures clearly say that, so who lacked understanding of their religion again?? Maybe you dont know much about the abrahimic religions?

Stop creating strawmen, and start reading what my posts actually say.foxhound_fox

No it doesn't. Many Hindu's can be termed weak theists, and even agnostic and atheist. I think YOU are the one making absurd and sweeping claims about religions that frankly, doesn't seem like you understand.

foxhound_fox

You certainly have more knowledge about hinduism but I am pretty sure I am more exposed to their traditions and people than you have been. I have been watching indian movies and television since by childhood and I understand their language for the most part. Hindus have every bit as superstitious beliefs and traditions as it gets. I wouldnt challenge your knowledge about the concept of God in hinduism since I dont have knowledge but I am not sure about the fear thing that you are saying cuz I have several times seen in indian movies and television hindus literally weeping and crying in mandirs for repentence. I have also heard "dont do it, be afraid of God" etc.

I'm not the only one who doesn't think fear of God is "good" or productive to a proper religious mindset.

foxhound_fox

To all people who think it's ridiculous to fear God, what's the difference between fearing nature and fearing God?

Dont you fear getting caught in a terrorist attack? Getting caught in a terrible natural disaster? Getting infected by a deadly virus? Having a terrible road accident?

I am not afraid of God cuz I have a very positive lack of belief but I am afraid of all the things above. I dont lose sleep over it but neither do the religious people. The only difference is in the fact that they believe in God and I dont. The amount of suffering in the natural world makes it only reasonable to be afraid of God if you believe in one. If you believe that there is a supreme power controlling all those things than how can you not be afraid of that power? How can you be afraid of natural disasters and not the one whoz controlling them and has "all power" over them?

And I think society is better off with fear of God then none but I am not entirely sure on the issue, what brings the real trouble is the "hope of reward" which changes the sceranio entirely.

I dont know of any theists who lose sleep over fear of God, they are afraid but it's not like they are "deadly afraid" or something...

And fear of God IS an important part of the abrahimic religions, there is no doubt about it as the scriptures clearly say that, so who lacked understanding of their religion again?? Maybe you dont know much about the abrahimic religions?

Gambler_3

No, it isn't.  Respect for and reverence of God is an important part of the Abrahamic religions, or at least Judaism and Christianity (I'll leave Islam to those more knowledgeable on it than I).  The concepts of fear and reverence were interchangeable back then, and the translators rather unfortunately translated the relevant words as "fear" when that was not the intended sense.  If we were intended to fear God, then how does one reconcile this idea with the fact that we are told (at least in Christianity) both that we are to love God and that there is no fear in love?

No, it isn't.  Respect for and reverence of God is an important part of the Abrahamic religions, or at least Judaism and Christianity (I'll leave Islam to those more knowledgeable on it than I).  The concepts of fear and reverence were interchangeable back then, and the translators rather unfortunately translated the relevant words as "fear" when that was not the intended sense.  If we were intended to fear God, then how does one reconcile this idea with the fact that we are told (at least in Christianity) both that we are to love God and that there is no fear in love?

GabuEx

In Islam revering and respecting God is important too. But there's another element thrown in, called "taqwa". Taqwa is commonly mistranslated as "fear", but in actuality it means "God-conscious". So to have taqwa is to be aware that God is watching whatever you do. Not a fear, per se, but just an acknowledgement of God.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

And fear of God IS an important part of the abrahimic religions, there is no doubt about it as the scriptures clearly say that, so who lacked understanding of their religion again?? Maybe you dont know much about the abrahimic religions?

GabuEx

No, it isn't.  Respect for and reverence of God is an important part of the Abrahamic religions, or at least Judaism and Christianity (I'll leave Islam to those more knowledgeable on it than I).  The concepts of fear and reverence were interchangeable back then, and the translators rather unfortunately translated the relevant words as "fear" when that was not the intended sense.  If we were intended to fear God, then how does one reconcile this idea with the fact that we are told (at least in Christianity) both that we are to love God and that there is no fear in love?

Ah there are many things in the abrahimic religions which flatly contradict each other like God created us and is omniscient and yet we have free will, God loves us but yet will throw us into hell if we dont believe in him andor do bad deeds.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

No, it isn't.  Respect for and reverence of God is an important part of the Abrahamic religions, or at least Judaism and Christianity (I'll leave Islam to those more knowledgeable on it than I).  The concepts of fear and reverence were interchangeable back then, and the translators rather unfortunately translated the relevant words as "fear" when that was not the intended sense.  If we were intended to fear God, then how does one reconcile this idea with the fact that we are told (at least in Christianity) both that we are to love God and that there is no fear in love?

ghoklebutter

In Islam revering and respecting God is important too. But there's another element thrown in, called "taqwa". Taqwa is commonly mistranslated as "fear", but in actuality it means "God-conscious". So to have taqwa is to be aware that God is watching whatever you do. Not a fear, per se, but just an acknowledgement of God.

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5359, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Allah's Messenger said, "If, through fear of Allah, tears--even to the extent of a fly's head--fall from any believer's eyes and drop on some part of his cheek, he will be kept away from Hell by Allah."

Verse No. 9 in the Noble Quran

Chapter 2: 2

this is the book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

The word "fear Allah" is used countless times in the quran.

How do you know that it is the way it was meant to be? Your interpretation is simply based on incredulity.Gambler_3

When a translation tells us that we should fear God in one breath, love God in the next, and that fear is incompatible with love in the third, don't you think it's kind of time to ask whether this makes any sense at all? 

Ah there are many things in the abrahimic religions which flatly contradict each other like God created us and is omniscient and yet we have free will,Gambler_3

There is no statement in the Bible that says we have free will, and in fact one of the main tenets of the doctrine of Calvinism is the nonexistence of free will.

God loves us but yet will throw us into hell if we dont believe in him andor do bad deeds.Gambler_3

As I've said in the past, the original conception in Christianity of the punishment sinners receive after death - and the only one that is congruent with the Greek used to describe it - is that of a corrective chastisement whose ultimate intention is to bring us to the love of God and to reconcile us to God.  Christianity has been infused with many pagan and secular traditions over the centuries, and the concept of a place of eternal torment is one of them.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

In Islam revering and respecting God is important too. But there's another element thrown in, called "taqwa". Taqwa is commonly mistranslated as "fear", but in actuality it means "God-conscious". So to have taqwa is to be aware that God is watching whatever you do. Not a fear, per se, but just an acknowledgement of God.

Gambler_3

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5359, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Allah's Messenger said, "If, through fear of Allah, tears--even to the extent of a fly's head--fall from any believer's eyes and drop on some part of his cheek, he will be kept away from Hell by Allah."

Verse No. 9 in the Noble Quran

Chapter 2: 2

this is the book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

The word "fear Allah" is used countless times in the quran.

Considering that ghoklebutter's argument was that "fear" was a mistranslation, don't you kind of think that pointing to an instance of that alleged mistranslation is not exactly a very effective counterargument?

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

No, it isn't.  Respect for and reverence of God is an important part of the Abrahamic religions, or at least Judaism and Christianity (I'll leave Islam to those more knowledgeable on it than I).  The concepts of fear and reverence were interchangeable back then, and the translators rather unfortunately translated the relevant words as "fear" when that was not the intended sense.  If we were intended to fear God, then how does one reconcile this idea with the fact that we are told (at least in Christianity) both that we are to love God and that there is no fear in love?

Gambler_3

In Islam revering and respecting God is important too. But there's another element thrown in, called "taqwa". Taqwa is commonly mistranslated as "fear", but in actuality it means "God-conscious". So to have taqwa is to be aware that God is watching whatever you do. Not a fear, per se, but just an acknowledgement of God.

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5359, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Allah's Messenger said, "If, through fear of Allah, tears--even to the extent of a fly's head--fall from any believer's eyes and drop on some part of his cheek, he will be kept away from Hell by Allah."

Verse No. 9 in the Noble Quran

Chapter 2: 2

this is the book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

The word "fear Allah" is used countless times in the quran.

I see your point, but taqwa means "God-consciousness", not fear. Fear is a close translation but it's not very accurate.

Taqwa is the Islamic concept of "God-consciousness" or higher consciousness. It is related to the concept of conscience. Having taqwá allows a person to be constantly aware of both God's all-encompassing knowledge and attributes and a reminder of their relationship and responsibility to God as his creation and servant...

Source

Granted, there is fear to an extent, but not so much of being afraid of God.

Also, the Qur'an says:

O you who believe, fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam 3:102

Ibn Mas`ud explained what it means to fear Allah as He ought to be feared by saying, "It means that He is to be obeyed, not disobeyed; remembered, not forgotten; and shown gratitude, not ingratitude." This parallels with the translation of taqwa as "God-consciousness".

And "fear" in that verse is from taqwa because it has the root Taa-Qaaf-Yaa:

Right before the word "Allah" is the word "attaqu" which is from "taqwa".

When a translation tells us that we should fear God in one breath, love God in the next, and that fear is incompatible with love in the third, don't you think it's kind of time to ask whether this makes any sense at all? GabuEx

There is no statement in the Bible that says we have free will, and in fact one of the main tenets of the doctrine of Calvinism is the nonexistence of free will.GabuEx

As I've said in the past, the original conception in Christianity of the punishment sinners receive after death - and the only one that is congruent with the Greek used to describe it - is that of a corrective chastisement whose ultimate intention is to bring us to the love of God and to reconcile us to God.  Christianity has been infused with many pagan and secular traditions over the centuries, and the concept of a place of eternal torment is one of them.

Gambler_3

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

In Islam revering and respecting God is important too. But there's another element thrown in, called "taqwa". Taqwa is commonly mistranslated as "fear", but in actuality it means "God-conscious". So to have taqwa is to be aware that God is watching whatever you do. Not a fear, per se, but just an acknowledgement of God.

GabuEx

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5359, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud

Allah's Messenger said, "If, through fear of Allah, tears--even to the extent of a fly's head--fall from any believer's eyes and drop on some part of his cheek, he will be kept away from Hell by Allah."

Verse No. 9 in the Noble Quran

Chapter 2: 2

this is the book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;

The word "fear Allah" is used countless times in the quran.

Considering that ghoklebutter's argument was that "fear" was a mistranslation, don't you kind of think that pointing to an instance of that alleged mistranslation is not exactly a very effective counterargument?

I presented him with yousuf ali translation which is the most widely regarded translation of the quran. The burden of proof is on him.:)

I see your point, but taqwa means "God-consciousness", not fear. Fear is a close translation but it's not very accurate.

Taqwa is the Islamic concept of "God-consciousness" or higher consciousness. It is related to the concept of conscience. Having taqwá allows a person to be constantly aware of both God's all-encompassing knowledge and attributes and a reminder of their relationship and responsibility to God as his creation and servant...

Source

ghoklebutter

And from the same source,

The origin of the word taqwá "carefulness, Godfearing-ness" is from the Arabic root WQY from the 8th form verb, ittaqá "be wary, Godfearing."

Granted, there is fear to an extent, but not so much of being afraid of God.

ghoklebutter

Also, the Qur'an says:

O you who believe, fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam 3:102

Ibn Mas`ud explained what it means to fear Allah as He ought to be feared by saying, "It means that He is to be obeyed, not disobeyed; remembered, not forgotten; and shown gratitude, not ingratitude." This parallels with the translation of taqwa as "God-consciousness".

ghoklebutter

How does HE know that's what it means?:roll:

Btw are you literate in arabic or you are just going with the interpretations that seem more reasonable to you?

Gambler_3

1. The root from taqwa is in that verse. Therefore the word taqwa is relevant to my argument. (I don't have the Arabic version of the Hadith you posted so I had to use a surah instead). The same source ALSO says:

The traditional understanding is negative: "to stay away from everything forbidden and do all things that are ordered by God." Alternative definitions are sometimes quite positive, such as: "to pursue the Path of God with single-minded, energetic devotion." Literally it means to protect yourself from diverging from the path of God.

Bold: How is that "fear"? 

One of the early Companions of the Prophet gave an example of taqwá. If one is walking through a forest where there are many thorns, one walks carefully so as not to get pricked or get one's clothes torn.

Bold: The translation of taqwa as "God-consciousness" paralells with this example. In this light taqwa means either "God-consciousness" because this companion's example is that one should be careful in his deeds as God is watching.

2. I am denying the kind of fear that is related to being afraid of something, not fear altogether.

3. He probably knows because, I don't know, he was a companion of the prophet? The accounts of these companions are usually very accurate. He must have known the meaning because he asked Muhammad about it. That's just speculation though. Either way his quote is authentic.

4. I'm still studying it but I know quite a bit about Arabic and its root system. I think cherry-picking interpretations is a bad idea since it can usually lead to contradicting yourself.

I was never arguing about being "afraid", since you have agreed on the fear part, I think this argument is done.:)Gambler_3

I guess it is. :P

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I was never arguing about being "afraid", since you have agreed on the fear part, I think this argument is done.:)ghoklebutter

I guess it is. :P

Aww, I thought you both could have stretched this out another few pages at least.

Please try harder not to agree to disagree next time.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I was never arguing about being "afraid", since you have agreed on the fear part, I think this argument is done.:)RationalAtheist

I guess it is. :P

Aww, I thought you both could have stretched this out another few pages at least.

Please try harder not to agree to disagree next time.

lol.:P

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I was never arguing about being "afraid", since you have agreed on the fear part, I think this argument is done.:)RationalAtheist

I guess it is. :P

Aww, I thought you both could have stretched this out another few pages at least.

Please try harder not to agree to disagree next time.

Aww it's okay RA. I'll fire-up another debate one of these days. :P

I think it's good in some cases, but fearing god like you're scared of god is just insane in my opnion. What do you think?ghoklebutter

I'm not afraid of a God whose "prophet" married a 9 year old girl when he was 54. I'm talking about Aisha and Muhammad ofcourse

Being afraid of Allah, a non-existing God is no use at all. Leave Islam today, Ghokle.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]I think it's good in some cases, but fearing god like you're scared of god is just insane in my opnion. What do you think?Maxstar1

I'm not afraid of a God whose "prophet" married a 9 year old girl when he was 54. I'm talking about Aisha and Muhammad ofcourse

Being afraid of Allah, a non-existing God is no use at all. Leave Islam today, Ghokle.

Good to see you sir! Please stop trolling already.

Why are you calling my post trolling?

Another point: Why should I be afraid of a God who threatens to burn me in Hellfire? (Quran 48:13). I dont need to respect or fear this kind of cruel God. Allah is not a God anyway. Muhammad was a false prophet.

Why are you calling my post trolling?

Another point: Why should I be afraid of a God who threatens to burn me in Hellfire? (Quran 48:13). I dont need to respect or fear this kind of cruel God. Allah is not a God anyway. Muhammad was a false prophet.

Maxstar1

1. You keep asking me to apostate. I'm not offended by your comments but by definition you're doing this solely to annoy me .

2. Same thing could be said for pretty much every religion that has the belief of hell. What's your point again?