Some things my creationist teacher said during an evolution debate with me

Him:"Evolution is just a theory,"

Me: "It is a scientific theory, which is an explanation of an observation in nature."

Him: "Exactly! What was the word you said after scientific?" *rest of class cheers*

Me: "Are you joking? A Scientific Theory is not a theory in the sense that aliens at Area 51 is. Evolution is the observation, natural selection is why it happens."

Him: "See, what you're doing right now is being a scientologist (he literally said this). You can't do that."

Me: "You don't even know what a scientologist is. How did you graduate from high school (he's pretty cool and didn't get mad at this)?"

Later down the line....

Him: "Evolution isn't fact because it's not even a scientific law,"

Me: "Ok seriously where did you go to school? Scientific theories don't get "promoted" to laws, they are two different things."

A short period of time passes...

Me: "If evolution does not occur, why is there an ever-growing need for stronger antibiotics?"

Him: "What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about evolution not germs."

Me: "Evolution can and does occur for all life forms."

Him: "Evolution only has to do with mankind."

More time passes

Him: "If evolution is true, who created the Earth? (lol)"

Him: "When did you see monkey turn into man?"

I think that about covers it. Can't remember anything else. Anyways, during this time, I was being called Lucifer, Satan, dumbass, atheist, and douchebag. Ooookkkkayyy then.

the conversation was lost by the first few lines.  He's already proven he knows jack **** about the scientific method.

Tell him he should stop taking antibiotics and stop using fossil fuels while you're at it.  Obviously he doesn't believe in those.

If you need to talk to any creationist on the subject in the future, here's a great place to start: An Index to Creationist Claims

(Edited to remove swearing by RA) 

Him:"Evolution is just a theory,"

Me: "It is a scientific theory, which is an explanation of an observation in nature."

Him: "Exactly! What was the word you said after scientific?" *rest of class cheers*

Me: "Are you joking? A Scientific Theory is not a theory in the sense that aliens at Area 51 is. Evolution is the observation, natural selection is why it happens."

Him: "See, what you're doing right now is being a scientologist (he literally said this). You can't do that."

Me: "You don't even know what a scientologist is. How did you graduate from high school (he's pretty cool and didn't get mad at this)?"

 

Later down the line....

Him: "Evolution isn't fact because it's not even a scientific law,"

Me: "Ok seriously where did you go to school? Scientific theories don't get "promoted" to laws, they are two different things."

 

A short period of time passes...

Me: "If evolution does not occur, why is there an ever-growing need for stronger antibiotics?"

Him: "What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about evolution not germs."

Me: "Evolution can and does occur for all life forms."

Him: "Evolution only has to do with mankind."

 

More time passes

Him: "If evolution is true, who created the Earth? (lol)"

Him: "When did you see monkey turn into man?"

 

 

I think that about covers it. Can't remember anything else. Anyways, during this time, I was being called Lucifer, Satan, dumbass, atheist, and douchebag. Ooookkkkayyy then.

Mithrandir50

I guess you go to a religious school, right?

Creationist ideas, like many others, can be firmly rooted. I recently saw an hour-long discussion between Richard Dawkins and Wendy Wright (a creationist campaigner). It reminded me that the depth of feeling is so strong that opposing thought is ignored, ridiculed and attacked for no other reason than to protect a fragile idea.

When ideas like this are questioned for a creationist, it can be seen as attacking the foundations for the entire belief system, so no wonder they can be protective and dismissive of an "opposing" view.

It must be tough for you be be called names because you can justify your beliefs rationally. It must be harder to cling to an idea like creationism that must eventually cause so much internal dissonance though.

@ Zeviander- Louisiana. I've only talked to two other teachers about it and they thought he was a dumbass.

@RA- I saw that interview too. LOL. Well actually it was funny at first and then damn annoying later on. Dawkins displayed much more patience than I would have.

@Wis3boi- LOL I made a powerpoint over the weekend about scientific theories, laws, and evolution. Explained the whole antibiotics and fossil fuel thing. Asked him if he would let me share it but apparently it is "atheist propaganda". Things got heated. Asked him if he was scared of the truth and preferred living in fairytale land. He told me that the bible is fact and that people like me (atheists) are what's wrong with America. WTF, this guy is like 25.

Anyways, now his stance is that evolution occurs, but not for humanity. I asked him what makes us so special and (as you could expect), the answer was that God made us or something. I was too dumbfounded really to come up with an adequate response. I searched your link, Wis, and couldn't find anything on that particular stance.

What should I say tomorrow?

What should I say tomorrow?Mithrandir50

If I were you I'd read up on vestigial organs and mention them to him. They are useless parts of our body that probably used to have a function millennia ago but are currently without purpose and are probably gradually disappearing generation after generation. They are positive evidence of evolution applied to the human body.

I would also watch this series of very insightful videos called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, which are made to explain evolution even to themost crass of creationists. The link I provided has all of them put together.

[QUOTE="Mithrandir50"]What should I say tomorrow?Black_Knight_00

If I were you I'd read up on vestigial organs and mention them to him. They are useless parts of our body that probably used to have a function millennia ago but are currently without purpose and are probably gradually disappearing generation after generation. They are positive evidence of evolution applied to the human body.

I would also watch this series of very insightful videos called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, which are made to explain evolution even to themost crass of creationists. The link I provided has all of them put together.

the silver fox experiment is also a prime example of evolution being seen.  Also, girraffe neck dissection by Dawkins on youtube.

Would this help explain things? 

Would this help explain things? 

RationalAtheist

[QUOTE="Mithrandir50"]What should I say tomorrow?Black_Knight_00

If I were you I'd read up on vestigial organs and mention them to him. They are useless parts of our body that probably used to have a function millennia ago but are currently without purpose and are probably gradually disappearing generation after generation. They are positive evidence of evolution applied to the human body.

I would also watch this series of very insightful videos called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, which are made to explain evolution even to themost crass of creationists. The link I provided has all of them put together.

Thank you for this idea. Will do some more research for tomorrow then.

Also, here's another thing he said during today's debate: "I don't care what you believe, but God created the earth and that is a FACT. Ask any scientist,"

Calling him brain dead would be a compliment

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="Mithrandir50"]What should I say tomorrow?Mithrandir50

If I were you I'd read up on vestigial organs and mention them to him. They are useless parts of our body that probably used to have a function millennia ago but are currently without purpose and are probably gradually disappearing generation after generation. They are positive evidence of evolution applied to the human body.

I would also watch this series of very insightful videos called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, which are made to explain evolution even to themost crass of creationists. The link I provided has all of them put together.

Thank you for this idea. Will do some more research for tomorrow then.

Also, here's another thing he said during today's debate: "I don't care what you believe, but God created the earth and that is a FACT. Ask any scientist,"

Calling him brain dead would be a compliment

meanwhile the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists or deists

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="Mithrandir50"]What should I say tomorrow?Mithrandir50

If I were you I'd read up on vestigial organs and mention them to him. They are useless parts of our body that probably used to have a function millennia ago but are currently without purpose and are probably gradually disappearing generation after generation. They are positive evidence of evolution applied to the human body.

I would also watch this series of very insightful videos called The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, which are made to explain evolution even to themost crass of creationists. The link I provided has all of them put together.

Thank you for this idea. Will do some more research for tomorrow then.

Also, here's another thing he said during today's debate: "I don't care what you believe, but God created the earth and that is a FACT. Ask any scientist,"

Calling him brain dead would be a compliment

I'd be interested in knowing how the followup conversation went. Regardless, that last quotation from your teacher (God created the world, ask any scientist) makes me think he's a complete idiot neck deep in denial. I say avoid further confrontation unless provoked. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't listen no matter how much sense you make. A rational person must learn to pick his battles

Considering about 45% of the US thinks the earth is 6000 years old, you should feel quite good about your position :P  Take those creationist 'insults' as a compliment :Dwis3boi

Assuming these figures are correct, the sad reality is that:

58% of americans can't identify the Taliban
10% of american high school seniors think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc
14% of americans cannot read
49% of americans have no idea who dropped the atom bomb in WW2
29% of americans can't name their own vice president

I wonder how many of these also call themselves believers. Religion prospers where education starves.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]Considering about 45% of the US thinks the earth is 6000 years old, you should feel quite good about your position :P  Take those creationist 'insults' as a compliment :DBlack_Knight_00

Assuming these figures are correct, the sad reality is that:

58% of americans can't identify the Taliban
10% of american high school seniors think that Noah's wife was Joan of Arc
14% of americans cannot read
49% of americans have no idea who dropped the atom bomb in WW2
29% of americans can't name their own vice president

I wonder how many of these also call themselves believers. Religion prospers where education starves.

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

wis3boi

Yes, and that's is precisely why america is the home of the worst kinds of christianity imaginable. I mean, the worst we get here are Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. You guys have Church of Christ and similar congress-infiltrating crackpots.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

Black_Knight_00

Yes, and that's is precisely why america is the home of the worst kinds of christianity imaginable. I mean, the worst we get here are Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. You guys have Church of Christ and similar congress-infiltrating crackpots.

Where is here?

"Education" is a big reason why many people are religious. It just depends what you're taught.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

Black_Knight_00

Yes, and that's is precisely why america is the home of the worst kinds of christianity imaginable. I mean, the worst we get here are Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. You guys have Church of Christ and similar congress-infiltrating crackpots.

I'm proud to have been born and raised around the boston region.  Least religions section of the country, also home to the best colleges and all other forms of education.  

I'm proud to have been born and raised around the boston region.  Least religions section of the country, also home to the best colleges and all other forms of education.  

wis3boi

I can't even remember the last time there were any religiously inspired terrorist atrocities there! 

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I'm proud to have been born and raised around the boston region.  Least religions section of the country, also home to the best colleges and all other forms of education.  

RationalAtheist

I can't even remember the last time there were any religiously inspired terrorist atrocities there! 

And they were not from the US

And they were not from the US

wis3boi

So? 

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

And they were not from the US

RationalAtheist

So? 

so your statement has nothing to do with the culture of new england

so your statement has nothing to do with the culture of new england

wis3boi

Doesn't New England have many different cultures?

I expect a certain degree of jingoism from many Americans, but making unqualified remarks about the purity of culture and greatness of "all other forms of education" in a region seems somewhat bizarre.

There is obviously some connection between events, people and the society where they were raised and educated. Those events don't necessarily reflect any particular culture of New England, but are now placed within it.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

so your statement has nothing to do with the culture of new england

RationalAtheist

Doesn't New England have many different cultures?

I expect a certain degree of jingoism from many Americans, but making unqualified remarks about the purity of culture and greatness of "all other forms of education" in a region seems somewhat bizarre.

There is obviously some connection between events, people and the society where they were raised and educated. Those events don't necessarily reflect any particular culture of New England, but are now placed within it.

you read too much into my statements

you read too much into my statements

wis3boi

I think the reverse is true, although I guess the irony is lost on you. 

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

you read too much into my statements

RationalAtheist

I think the reverse is true, although I guess the irony is lost on you. 

I just don't think your desire to poke fun at a local tragedy in my backyard and make seemingly irrelevant comments was necessary

I just don't think your desire to poke fun at a local tragedy in my backyard and make seemingly irrelevant comments was necessary

wis3boi

Don't you?

I didn't poke fun at the bombing at all.

I'm not convinced that many of your posts here are relevent or necessary either.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I just don't think your desire to poke fun at a local tragedy in my backyard and make seemingly irrelevant comments was necessary

RationalAtheist

Don't you?

I didn't poke fun at the bombing at all.

I'm not convinced that many of your posts here are relevent or necessary either.

I would appreciate you not piggy backing my comments to derail something that was indeed relevant to this topic.  I'm sorry that you cannot see this.  You aren't living up to your username and frankly I avoid this union a lot these days because of the types of replies you give to certain things.  I was relating the education system of new england and its standards compared to bruce's down in Louisiana and comparing it with my university and high school experiences up north.  The bombs in boston have zero relevance to US education, geography, or creationism.  Frankly  I don't see where you want to go with this and I don't see it as productive in any way shape or form. 

I would appreciate you not piggy backing my comments to derail something that was indeed relevant to this topic.  I'm sorry that you cannot see this.  You aren't living up to your username and frankly I avoid this union a lot these days because of the types of replies you give to certain things.  I was relating the education system of new england and its standards compared to bruce's down in Louisiana and comparing it with my university and high school experiences up north.  The bombs in boston have zero relevance to US education, geography, or creationism.  Frankly  I don't see where you want to go with this and I don't see it as productive in any way shape or form. 

wis3boi

I only saw it as another one of your boasts, as if you were living up to your own username, unfortunately.

During the last "discussion" I had with you in this union you chose to prefer insult and evasion over discourse. Then you further baited me shortly afterwards with numerous insulting comments about me in OT while I was discussing stuff with other people. I don't think you have any moral high ground about posting relevency or productivity. I lost much respect I had for you after those hurtful OT comments you made in retailiation of our "big bang" discussion.

That sort of behaviour, in tandem with your previous expletive-filled posts here and general "keyboard warrior" insulting style, make it hard for me to believe you had a decent higher education - let alone be able to comment on it's quality: I wonder that you don't think yourself responsible for the consequences of your actions.

I think the bombs and shootouts in Boston are relevent to its perception as a place that has had "minimal religious impact". Your varied responses to that show me this isn't really about my comment, but about my perceived attacks on your own righteousness. As to where I want to go with this; I think you are the one inflating my comments.

If you don't like discussion and examination of your statements, or even dealing appropriately with an opposing view, then - as you say - perhaps this place is not the "most productive" for you. I'd welcome a change of approach.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

RationalAtheist

Yes, and that's is precisely why america is the home of the worst kinds of christianity imaginable. I mean, the worst we get here are Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. You guys have Church of Christ and similar congress-infiltrating crackpots.

Where is here?

"Education" is a big reason why many people are religious. It just depends what you're taught.

"Here" is Europe, Italy to be specific, where no one I ever heard of thinks evolution is a lie from satan and where no one believes the Earth is 6000 years old. Why? Because we have a real separation of church and state for one, meaning we do not allow religious nutjobs (of which we have very little to start with) to influence politics and society, therefore the idea of teaching creationism in schools is unheard of and frankly sounds like a bad joke to us when we hear what happens concerning religious fanaticism in the US.

"Here" is Europe, Italy to be specific, where no one I ever heard of thinks evolution is a lie from satan and where no one believes the Earth is 6000 years old. Why? Because we have a real separation of church and state for one, meaning we do not allow religious nutjobs (of which we have very little to start with) to influence politics and society, therefore the idea of teaching creationism in schools is unheard of and frankly sounds like a bad joke to us when we hear what happens concerning religious fanaticism in the US.

Black_Knight_00

That seems good.

In the UK (where I am) we do have some religious influence in politics and indeed there are a few creationists in this country too (Christian and Islamic). Alarmingly, there are moves to create more and more "faith schools" - for no other reason (it seems to me) than the economic one that churches and mosques can afford to invest in education and the government gets more "schools" funded on the cheap. I think this will only damage society with religious division from childhood.

That seems good.

In the UK (where I am) we do have some religious influence in politics and indeed there are a few creationists in this country too (Christian and Islamic). Alarmingly, there are moves to create more and more "faith schools" - for no other reason (it seems to me) than the economic one that churches and mosques can afford to invest in education and the government gets more "schools" funded on the cheap. I think this will only damage society with religious division from childhood.

RationalAtheist

Yes, I'm aware of the islamic problem in the UK, thanks to Pat Condell's videos. It's a tough situation I must say. Italy has been kept safe from it, probably because this country is way too racist to grant any sort of political power to any minority. Integration, welfare and social rights are as far as "non caucasian" immigrats can hope to achieve around these parts. Political influence? No. It's sort of an "unwritten law."

Shameful as it is, the one good thing about it is it kept the muslim expansionists away from any sort of influential position. A decade ago they tried to twist  the mistry of instruction's arm into removing crucifixes from classes (an old remnant of a catholic tradition) but failed miserably. Nothing comes to mind after that.

Boston is a pretty liberal and secular place.  I would not say that we should consider it a radical religious place.  One occurrence is an anomaly, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern.

That being said it clearly does have some nutcases.  As do all places.

 I know it's a late reply but I feel I must repsond to this

I only saw it as another one of your boasts, as if you were living up to your own username, unfortunately.

During the last "discussion" I had with you in this union you chose to prefer insult and evasion over discourse. Then you further baited me shortly afterwards with numerous insulting comments about me in OT while I was discussing stuff with other people. I don't think you have any moral high ground about posting relevency or productivity. I lost much respect I had for you after those hurtful OT comments you made in retailiation of our "big bang" discussion.

 Your big bang thread was an abortion of a topic after you insisted going back further than the big bang itself, in spite of the entire scientific community's inability to do so, thanks to the laws of the universe. Every person in the field of astrophysics and astronomy knows this.

 

That sort of behaviour, in tandem with your previous expletive-filled posts here and general "keyboard warrior" insulting style, make it hard for me to believe you had a decent higher education - let alone be able to comment on it's quality: I wonder that you don't think yourself responsible for the consequences of your actions.

 

One curse in a post is not "expletive filled", and using the Socratic method of questioning is not insulting...though on OT and system wars, sometimes calling a spade a spade is all you can do.  And how nice of you to assume I bombed school when I went to a 5 year private college in one of the most well educated and well funded states in the US.  I studied IT networking and web design and minored in philosophy/critical thinking, both in the science department. The school requires students affiliated in the science department to pass courses in all science fields, like evolution, biology, astronomy, regardless of chosen major.  I compared my experience there with TC's professor's lack of understanding of evolution and the huge shift in it's teaching between the north and south of the US (It's required teaching up here, not taught much or at all in many portions of the south.) 

 

I think the bombs and shootouts in Boston are relevant to its perception as a place that has had "minimal religious impact". Your varied responses to that show me this isn't really about my comment, but about my perceived attacks on your own righteousness. As to where I want to go with this; I think you are the one inflating my comments.

 

You're not even from my country, let alone my state.  I love how you think the Boston marathon terrorists reflect the people living here and their schooling and religion.  A militia fighter from the Chechnya war and his brother and their idiot parents has no relevance to what I was talking about. The mastermind of the bombing stated his hatred for the US government and it's wars in the middle east, becoming very radical even against his own neighborhood mosques. and acted as revenge for the long conflict. You bringing it up was silly and a waste.  It very much is about your comment, that you still have yet to explain the purpose of going "I can't remember the last time a religious incident occurred there!" in regards to a largely different topic.  I'd still be interested in hearing what the hell it meant in greater detail than what appears to be a side joke.

 

If you don't like discussion and examination of your statements, or even dealing appropriately with an opposing view, then - as you say - perhaps this place is not the "most productive" for you. I'd welcome a change of approach.

 I'm a skeptic.  I want people to look at my views and discuss them.  My views change with new information, and they have changed rapidly in the past 6-7 years due to offline discussion with professors and colleagues of mine, and family and friends.  Instead here, you've decided to make rather massive assumptions about my life, my home, my background, and more, of which you have zero possibility of knowing.  Instead, you could have asked for clarification on my background if you wanted to know more instead of making up an imaginary character you think I am.  I didn't make up an idea about you, it would be nice if you did the same.Ask me about my private university life.  Ask me about work.  Ask me about my family.  Ask me about Massachussetts science education levels compared to the TC's bible belt levels, rates of religion, whatever.  Don't pretend to know.

I'd love to come to an understanding, but you're making it hard and tap-dancing around pulling what almost sounds like one large "No, you." argument.  Please, stop making assumptions and turning everything into "boasting", "righteousness", or whatever other euphemisms you can come up with.  

 

Thank you.

RationalAtheist

Boston is a pretty liberal and secular place.  I would not say that we should consider it a radical religious place.  One occurrence is an anomaly, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern.

That being said it clearly does have some nutcases.  As do all places.

 

 

Mithrandir50

I like that, the "Anomaly -> coincidence -> patter" thing.  And yes, all places have weird people, though Boston isn't breeding jihadists.  Actualy, the boston bomber mastermind (the older brother) hated his local muslims and mosques.  He went from mosque to mosque trying to fit in.  When local muslim leaders did services for patrons and told them to conform to their American brothers and sisters and make peace by celebrating days like MLK day and Thanksgiving, the bombing guy stood up and yelled and threatened the people in the building and stormed out of service.  He did this at multiple place.  The crazy part is, this guy wasn't even religious at all until his newfound hatred of the US government and it's policies came into his life.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

education in the US is terrible outside of many colleges

Black_Knight_00

Yes, and that's is precisely why america is the home of the worst kinds of christianity imaginable. I mean, the worst we get here are Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics. You guys have Church of Christ and similar congress-infiltrating crackpots.

Where is here?

"Education" is a big reason why many people are religious. It just depends what you're taught.

"Here" is Europe, Italy to be specific, where no one I ever heard of thinks evolution is a lie from satan and where no one believes the Earth is 6000 years old. Why? Because we have a real separation of church and state for one, meaning we do not allow religious nutjobs (of which we have very little to start with) to influence politics and society, therefore the idea of teaching creationism in schools is unheard of and frankly sounds like a bad joke to us when we hear what happens concerning religious fanaticism in the US.

Interesting stuff.  I would have thought Italy would be a little less like that.  Good to hear.  That's the difference between Europe and the US.  These people that think evolution is a lie, a spawn of satan, etc. or who fear and don't understand the big bang....they are very active in our education system and politics. 

How do people like the man below even get a job in the office they hold?  How can ~47-50% of the US population think the Earth is 6000 years old?  Fortunately, they are a dying breed.  Non-belief in gods and science litteracy is on the rise.

 Your big bang thread was an abortion of a topic after you insisted going back further than the big bang itself, in spite of the entire scientific community's inability to do so, thanks to the laws of the universe. Every person in the field of astrophysics and astronomy knows this.

wis3boi

It was a thread that you posted quite a bit in, so if it is an abortion, then that's somewhat down to you too. Many theoretical physicists are able and can conceive of previous states to our universal big bang, as I've shown in that thread with the long video I posted (from those at the Perimeter Institute and other notable theorists in the field). Seen it yet? Please give it a go! It may well be difficult for you to conceive a previous state to the big bang and easier to rely on those fallacious claims for popularity. I've never thought much of popularity though and am more interested in ideas in themselves.

 

One curse in a post is not "expletive filled", and using the Socratic method of questioning is not insulting...though on OT and system wars, sometimes calling a spade a spade is all you can do.  And how nice of you to assume I bombed school when I went to a 5 year private college in one of the most well educated and well funded states in the US.  I studied IT networking and web design and minored in philosophy/critical thinking, both in the science department. The school requires students affiliated in the science department to pass courses in all science fields, like evolution, biology, astronomy, regardless of chosen major.  I compared my experience there with TC's professor's lack of understanding of evolution and the huge shift in it's teaching between the north and south of the US (It's required teaching up here, not taught much or at all in many portions of the south.) 

wis3boi

I've removed at least two of those posts of your's from this union. Please don't make an equivalence between being abusive, insulting and sweary and using the Socratic method! There is none. I made no assumptions about you "bombing" school at all. I make no pretense of knowing anything about you. If you read my posts, you'll see I said "it makes it hard for me to believe you had a decent higher education". What I meant was that from what you'd been writing and the way you'd been behaving towards me (serially trolling me in OT after the "big bang" thread - you want those links?) had created a difficulty with my perception of you as a well-educated person. It was about my belief rather than your actual status. I think I had fairly good grounds for having that perception - purely based on your own actions. I wonder where your previous tactics I referred to in my last post relate to critical thinking or the Socratic method in any way. Note, the TC mentioned a teacher, rather than a professor.

 

You're not even from my country, let alone my state.  I love how you think the Boston marathon terrorists reflect the people living here and their schooling and religion.  A militia fighter from the Chechnya war and his brother and their idiot parents has no relevance to what I was talking about. The mastermind of the bombing stated his hatred for the US government and it's wars in the middle east, becoming very radical even against his own neighborhood mosques. and acted as revenge for the long conflict. You bringing it up was silly and a waste.  It very much is about your comment, that you still have yet to explain the purpose of going "I can't remember the last time a religious incident occurred there!" in regards to a largely different topic.  I'd still be interested in hearing what the hell it meant in greater detail than what appears to be a side joke.

wis3boi

I've already explained why I wrote the comment, so I won't repeat myself. In your opinion; it was silly and a waste, but that is just your opinion. We can have different ones and express them - and you are welcome to your one. By the way, I've not read that either of the bombers were "militia fighters" and thought they had been resident in the US from the ages of 15 and 8, unlike myself. 

 

I'm a skeptic.  I want people to look at my views and discuss them.  My views change with new information, and they have changed rapidly in the past 6-7 years due to offline discussion with professors and colleagues of mine, and family and friends.  Instead here, you've decided to make rather massive assumptions about my life, my home, my background, and more, of which you have zero possibility of knowing.  Instead, you could have asked for clarification on my background if you wanted to know more instead of making up an imaginary character you think I am.  I didn't make up an idea about you, it would be nice if you did the same.Ask me about my private university life.  Ask me about work.  Ask me about my family.  Ask me about Massachussetts science education levels compared to the TC's bible belt levels, rates of religion, whatever.  Don't pretend to know.

wis3boi

I make a personal assessment of you, based on your words here and actions on this website, rather than make any assumptions. I'd rather not make any assessment or assumption as to peoples' characters, since it only interferes with what's being expressed - in my mind. Separating ideas from the people expressing them is important to me. I think you project something, but I'm not particularly interested in what you're like, especially given your previous behaviour towards me (as I presented in my last post). I don't think I've made any claims to knowledge at all, but quite the reverse instead.

 

I'd love to come to an understanding, but you're making it hard and tap-dancing around pulling what almost sounds like one large "No, you." argument.  Please, stop making assumptions and turning everything into "boasting", "righteousness", or whatever other euphemisms you can come up with.  

Thank you.

wis3boi

There is no argument from me (nor any euphemisms). I think we already have an understanding of sorts, although I think perhaps you're making some assumptions that don't exist. Please, stop directing me and concentrate on what you can control - your own actions and behaviours. I think its too late for any resolution with me here though.

I like that, the "Anomaly -> coincidence -> patter" thing.  And yes, all places have weird people, though Boston isn't breeding jihadists.  Actualy, the boston bomber mastermind (the older brother) hated his local muslims and mosques.  He went from mosque to mosque trying to fit in.  When local muslim leaders did services for patrons and told them to conform to their American brothers and sisters and make peace by celebrating days like MLK day and Thanksgiving, the bombing guy stood up and yelled and threatened the people in the building and stormed out of service.  He did this at multiple place.  The crazy part is, this guy wasn't even religious at all until his newfound hatred of the US government and it's policies came into his life.

wis3boi

It is interesting how the Islamic Society of Boston (connected with the younger Tsarnaev) has rather worrying links to the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist and Jihadist groups, as exposed here. After all, it is quite difficult to become self-radicallised in a vacuum.

Interesting stuff.  I would have thought Italy would be a little less like that.  Good to hear.  That's the difference between Europe and the US.  These people that think evolution is a lie, a spawn of satan, etc. or who fear and don't understand the big bang....they are very active in our education system and politics. 

wis3boi

Europe is a place with many different countries, cultures, languages, faiths and outlooks. We have creationists and evangelicals in some places here too. 

How do people like the man below even get a job in the office they hold?  How can ~47-50% of the US population think the Earth is 6000 years old?  Fortunately, they are a dying breed.  Non-belief in gods and science litteracy is on the rise.

wis3boi

I think you answered your first question with your second one.

Interesting stuff.  I would have thought Italy would be a little less like that.  Good to hear.  That's the difference between Europe and the US.  These people that think evolution is a lie, a spawn of satan, etc. or who fear and don't understand the big bang....they are very active in our education system and politics.

 

How do people like the man below even get a job in the office they hold?  How can ~47-50% of the US population think the Earth is 6000 years old?  Fortunately, they are a dying breed.  Non-belief in gods and science litteracy is on the rise.
wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Interesting stuff.  I would have thought Italy would be a little less like that.  Good to hear.  That's the difference between Europe and the US.  These people that think evolution is a lie, a spawn of satan, etc. or who fear and don't understand the big bang....they are very active in our education system and politics.

 

How do people like the man below even get a job in the office they hold?  How can ~47-50% of the US population think the Earth is 6000 years old?  Fortunately, they are a dying breed.  Non-belief in gods and science litteracy is on the rise.
Black_Knight_00

This is great :D  I was raised catholic myself, and around here, even they don't really seem to care about the pope, they just see him as another talking head on the world stage looking for people to bow to them.  Sad when a world power like the US has a problem with science litteracy.  Some places still even segregate white and black students at prom

Some places still even segregate white and black students at prom

wis3boi

Is there evidence of this you can show, or is it just BS? I can't quite believe that from a country with a black president. 

Is there evidence of this you can show, or is it just BS? I can't quite believe that from a country with a black president.RationalAtheist

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Is there evidence of this you can show, or is it just BS? I can't quite believe that from a country with a black president.Zeviander

This should settle the dispute. Holy crap, america still has some serious work to do, socially.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Is there evidence of this you can show, or is it just BS? I can't quite believe that from a country with a black president.Black_Knight_00

This should settle the dispute. Holy crap, america still has some serious work to do, socially.

The link referenced in the wiki article states that segregated proms have now faded away and the one written about was the last one to integrate.

"Paul Saltzman, who directed a film about Charlestons desegregation, Prom Night in Mississippi, said he did not know of any other proms that were still segregated. He praised Wilcox County students for breaking with tradition."

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]Is there evidence of this you can show, or is it just BS? I can't quite believe that from a country with a black president.RationalAtheist

This should settle the dispute. Holy crap, america still has some serious work to do, socially.

The link referenced in the wiki article states that segregated proms have now faded away and the one written about was the last one to integrate.

"Paul Saltzman, who directed a film about Charlestons desegregation, Prom Night in Mississippi, said he did not know of any other proms that were still segregated. He praised Wilcox County students for breaking with tradition."

Ok, but you see nothing alarming in the fact that in 2013 we are still talking of racial segregation in america?

Ok, but you see nothing alarming in the fact that in 2013 we are still talking of racial segregation in america?

Black_Knight_00

I don't see anything alarming in the actual circumstances of this segregation; since it has now passed and only existed in privately organized events (rather than events organized by the schools themselves, which would have been illegal in that country anyway).

I find it more alarming that religious segregation is not being scrutinized and commented on with the same degree of social distaste that ended the school proms in the southern states. The organizers of those events cited pressure and publicity on social networks as a factor in ending such racism.

My alarm is about people who criticize Islam and Judaism (especially in regards to Sharia and Zionism) being branded misguidedly as "racist". There are government policies and many places that actively encourage the separation of people according to religion. In my country (UK) this happens in schools, community centres and particularly in certain regions that have become enclaves of a particular religious culture (be it Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, Catholicism, etc).

I find that growing development far more alarming than some alarmist comment about the very end of segregation in an "enlightened" country that did enforce fairly unique race division laws within my own lifetime.