Stupidest person of the 3kingdoms era?

ok we know that Zhunge Liang is probably the smartest but thats not what we're arguing about.

who's the dumbest?

I think it's Liu Chan, maybe Zhao Yun  dropped him on his head when he rescued him

LOL

The big dude of wei.  Zhu Xu or sumthin? 

The person I dislike the most is Diao Chan though.  Is she even real?

The big dude of wei.  Zhu Xu or sumthin? 

The person I dislike the most is Diao Chan though.  Is she even real?

noahcycle12

actually no one was stupid you can't go by the game for the right information okay

Xu Zhu wasn't fat or slow

Liu Chan wasn't stupid had bad council that he listen to not his fault on that one well maybe alittle for listning

Jiang Wei was in Huang Zhung so he couldn't tell Liu Chan what to do for that fact

so this topic is really not good since no one is stupid

Based off what I've read from the book so far, I'd have to say Yuan Shao. Had he mobilized his forces when Cao Cao was campaigning to the west, he could've secured control of the North and reestablished the Han.

Based off what I've read from the book so far, I'd have to say Yuan Shao. Had he mobilized his forces when Cao Cao was campaigning to the west, he could've secured control of the North and reestablished the Han.

taisho_rolyat

pride isn't stupidity, he just wanted to destroy Cao Cao, that makes him stupid?, liu chan listened to random religious guys when he was in a jam, i read that he would often pull Jiang wei from battle for no apparent reason.

[QUOTE="taisho_rolyat"]

Based off what I've read from the book so far, I'd have to say Yuan Shao. Had he mobilized his forces when Cao Cao was campaigning to the west, he could've secured control of the North and reestablished the Han.

SirMothy

pride isn't stupidity, he just wanted to destroy Cao Cao, that makes him stupid?, liu chan listened to random religious guys when he was in a jam, i read that he would often pull Jiang wei from battle for no apparent reason.

There's a fine line between pride and stupidity.

I'll due a sum-up type thing instead of quoting.

1. Pride is only bad when it is the type Shao had.  He had that "born into money rich prick" type of pride.  He never did anything to deserve to be so prideful.  When you do something for yourself, then you can take pride in it.  When respect is earned.........
2. And to Hanzo..........  Youre right.  (for once. j/k)  Like for instance the games make Zhang He look, um...like...well............you know!  But for real he was an amazing addition to Wei, and accomplished a lot of great victories.  Why Koei made him..*cough* is beyond me.  He was one of the most manly men during that time.  But because he was eccentric and had his peaceful side that found beauty in life, he was turned into a *Honk!.* 

I'll due a sum-up type thing instead of quoting.

1. Pride is only bad when it is the type Shao had.  He had that "born into money rich prick" type of pride.  He never did anything to deserve to be so prideful.  When you do something for yourself, then you can take pride in it.  When respect is earned.........
2. And to Hanzo..........  Youre right.  (for once. j/k)  Like for instance the games make Zhang He look, um...like...well............you know!  But for real he was an amazing addition to Wei, and accomplished a lot of great victories.  Why Koei made him..*cough* is beyond me.  He was one of the most manly men during that time.  But because he was eccentric and had his peaceful side that found beauty in life, he was turned into a *Honk!.* 

noahcycle12

ok so winning the battle of hu Lao Gate and leading the frces aganist Dong Zhou doesn't earn him any right to be proud of himself? you're so wrong, i do agree though that zhang He wasn't a fruitloop in real life, but Koei wanted to make him look stupid because they favor Shu, so, they  made the Shu guys cooler

[QUOTE="noahcycle12"]

I'll due a sum-up type thing instead of quoting.

1. Pride is only bad when it is the type Shao had.  He had that "born into money rich prick" type of pride.  He never did anything to deserve to be so prideful.  When you do something for yourself, then you can take pride in it.  When respect is earned.........
2. And to Hanzo..........  Youre right.  (for once. j/k)  Like for instance the games make Zhang He look, um...like...well............you know!  But for real he was an amazing addition to Wei, and accomplished a lot of great victories.  Why Koei made him..*cough* is beyond me.  He was one of the most manly men during that time.  But because he was eccentric and had his peaceful side that found beauty in life, he was turned into a *Honk!.* 

SirMothy

ok so winning the battle of hu Lao Gate and leading the frces aganist Dong Zhou doesn't earn him any right to be proud of himself? you're so wrong, i do agree though that zhang He wasn't a fruitloop in real life, but Koei wanted to make him look stupid because they favor Shu, so, they  made the Shu guys cooler

To be honest he basically only gave financial backing for the campaign.  If credit has to go to someone, it would be a close call between Sun Jian and Cao Cao.  Liu Bei didnt even play a large role.  His brothers had more impact then he did.  It didnt take long for the alliance to split.  Dong Zhou wasnt even beaten until well after the alliance turned on Yuan Shao.  His "leadership" was very short lived, and the strategies werent even his own.  Im not trying to tick you off, but he really had nothing in the way of accomplishments to brag about.

Ihave stated this before, and I will state it again: Lu Bu was the most dim-witted character. Lu_Bu01

I agree with you .

idk if he is really stupid but he sounds like it

Wei Yan

idk if he is really stupid but he sounds like it

Wei Yan

SoratheDeceiver

Wei Yan was quite smart

he had a plan that would have capture Chang An

but Zhuge being the B**ch he was didn't even listen to him

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

HanzoMaster

oh you make quite an argument (sarcasm) did Wei Yan really look like a weirdo in real life? and another thing did zhang he actually fight with those wolverine like claws

[QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

SirMothy

oh you make quite an argument (sarcasm) did Wei Yan really look like a weirdo in real life? and another thing did zhang he actually fight with those wolverine like claws

Wei Yan did not look like no retard

and my argument is enough if he listen to Wei Yan he wouldn't have died of stress they would have taken Chang An but no Zhuge had to be a B**ch and died

Zhang He was great and no he did not fight with those

those weapons are for women

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

HanzoMaster

[QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

Lu_Bu01

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

[QUOTE="Lu_Bu01"] [QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

HanzoMaster

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

He didnt like Wei Yan because he knew he wasnt trustworthy in the long run.  He used him while he was alive because he was an asset, but when he died Wei Yan did exactly what Zhuge said he would do.  He rebeled and tried to take over.  He knew Wei Yan better than anybody.  Dont question Zhuge's intellect.

[QUOTE="SirMothy"][QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

HanzoMaster

oh you make quite an argument (sarcasm) did Wei Yan really look like a weirdo in real life? and another thing did zhang he actually fight with those wolverine like claws

Wei Yan did not look like no retard

and my argument is enough if he listen to Wei Yan he wouldn't have died of stress they would have taken Chang An but no Zhuge had to be a B**ch and died

Zhang He was great and no he did not fight with those

those weapons are for women

Zhang He still kicks @$$ and is still my favorite officer

[QUOTE="HanzoMaster"][QUOTE="Lu_Bu01"] [QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

noahcycle12

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

He didnt like Wei Yan because he knew he wasnt trustworthy in the long run.  He used him while he was alive because he was an asset, but when he died Wei Yan did exactly what Zhuge said he would do.  He rebeled and tried to take over.  He knew Wei Yan better than anybody.  Dont question Zhuge's intellect.

again your wrong he didn't rebel they left him out in the middle of a battle and didn't tell him they were retreating so he got mad and attacked the person that left him out there so yea he attacked that person any would did that he was the one betryed it wasn't him betrying anyone they turned on him and Liu Bei trusted him that should have been enough for Zhuge but it wasn't for some reason and I hate Liu Bei so to defend him hurts me but I like Wei Yan more than others in Shu so thats the only reason

hey the plan was better than Zhuge

his plan was to attack Chang An doing its water delevery when they would have been alot easier to beat

but Zhuge was well Wu Zhang Plains and we saw what happen

so I do think Zhuge plan was not good since he lost dam near all his supplies

Wei Yan plan would have used less supplies and had a better % of succeding than Zhuge thats all I'm sayin

[QUOTE="HanzoMaster"][QUOTE="Lu_Bu01"] [QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

noahcycle12

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

He didnt like Wei Yan because he knew he wasnt trustworthy in the long run.  He used him while he was alive because he was an asset, but when he died Wei Yan did exactly what Zhuge said he would do.  He rebeled and tried to take over.  He knew Wei Yan better than anybody.  Dont question Zhuge's intellect.

he didn't believe Wei Yan for he feared that he would defect back to Wei, so he made him feel un important, that seems like a smart idea too me, even Sima Yi himself said that Zhunge Liang was the smartest man of the era, and I tend to agree with him

It's easy to say a particular plan was better than another one when looking back on history.  At the moment of the decision, however, one cannot see all ends, or what circumstances may happen.  Those who are considered great generals tends to foresee more of these than others, and so generally can make the best decisions.  What would we be saying now if Zhuge had listened to Wei Yan and enacted his plan, only for that plan to fail?  That he should not have listened to Wei Yan, of course. JeffSteel

man you always step into arguements and say something like that, it's kinda cool

[QUOTE="noahcycle12"][QUOTE="HanzoMaster"][QUOTE="Lu_Bu01"] [QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

SirMothy

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

He didnt like Wei Yan because he knew he wasnt trustworthy in the long run.  He used him while he was alive because he was an asset, but when he died Wei Yan did exactly what Zhuge said he would do.  He rebeled and tried to take over.  He knew Wei Yan better than anybody.  Dont question Zhuge's intellect.

he didn't believe Wei Yan for he feared that he would defect back to Wei, so he made him feel un important, that seems like a smart idea too me, even Sima Yi himself said that Zhunge Liang was the smartest man of the era, and I tend to agree with him

Kinda true I guess.  But to clearify myself, I meant that he felt he would rebel authority.  Which he did.  Something that cant be argued with is that Zhuge didnt care for him, and he knew he was "trouble" in so many words.

[QUOTE="SirMothy"][QUOTE="noahcycle12"][QUOTE="HanzoMaster"][QUOTE="Lu_Bu01"] [QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

I pick Zhuge Liang for this reason alone his alittle B**ch enough said

noahcycle12

what so ignorant by saying that

Wei Yan had a better plan to take Chang An and he didn't do it cause he hated Wei Yan for some reason

so that is stupid not to take a plan that was better than his does make him stupid

and what in the hell are you talking about every one of my post is like that I need some proof of that

thanks and good night

He didnt like Wei Yan because he knew he wasnt trustworthy in the long run.  He used him while he was alive because he was an asset, but when he died Wei Yan did exactly what Zhuge said he would do.  He rebeled and tried to take over.  He knew Wei Yan better than anybody.  Dont question Zhuge's intellect.

he didn't believe Wei Yan for he feared that he would defect back to Wei, so he made him feel un important, that seems like a smart idea too me, even Sima Yi himself said that Zhunge Liang was the smartest man of the era, and I tend to agree with him

Kinda true I guess.  But to clearify myself, I meant that he felt he would rebel authority.  Which he did.  Something that cant be argued with is that Zhuge didnt care for him, and he knew he was "trouble" in so many words.

noah i completely agree with you

Hanzo likew Wei Yan cause he's a former Wei, Zhunge is smart for recruiting Wei dropouts into his army, like Jiang Wei, wei Yan, and Huang Zhong, think of shu without those guys, It wouldn't even be the three kingdoms, It'd be the one kingdom and the Shu advesarySirMothy

Wei Yan was never in Wei

he was part of Liu Biao army

were again someone betrayed him and he killed that person

then they tried to put him to death but Huang Zhung came and saved him

agian he was turned on and he defended his self from them

Wei Yan was Loyal to Shu and like I said Zhuge was a b**ch not to trust him

Henzo I think you hate Zhuge Liang so much to say he is stupid . I want to say without him Shu wousln't become a kingdom , who made the alliance with Wu in the battle of ( Guan Du I'm not sure ) , and I think in that battle without the alliance there were no win for Shu and Wu and who thinked of that Zhuge Liang . Many things without Zhuge they couldn't happen . So if you want to say that Zhuge stupid your wrong . you should say he was wrong when he didn't take Wei Yan's advice not stupid , cause every man make mistakes but not evey man is stupid .and Thanks .

okay I see what your saying

but to say that is not true

Mi Zhu was with Liu Bei in the start

he was in a higher postion than Zhuge and he was just as smart so

Shu would have still formed

and the alliance at Chi Bi was just a ploy of Sun Quan not Wu since Wu was formed in 227 20 years after Chi Bi but back on topic Zhou Yu was using Zhuge and tried to have him killed before Chi Bi started but couldn't get the job done

and like I said alot of people was with Liu Bei before Zhuge again Mi Zhu,Sun Qian also and Fa Zheng came after wards but was said to be smarter than Zhuge

so again went overboard calling him stupid but that was a dumb move to attack Chang Ang head on when Wei Yan plan would have been alittle more fitting since Shu was small

i think that the stupidest person was ma su for that dumb move utop the hill when zhuge liang sed not 2 soooo........ thats my answermart_mart

let me do this very slow for you people that think Ma Su was dumb for what he did

Zhuge never told him not to he gave Ma Su free reign to do as pleased

at the Time the moutain thing was the best course of action since he could see inside the Wei Camp

Wang Peng was the only one that asked was it the right thing to do then Ma Su quated some guy about the abilty to change stragties or something like that in the middle of a battle the only thing that made it fell was Sima Yi and Zhang He had a better plan thats all that beat him there a better plan not him being stupid because he wasn't

he like alot others were in higher postions than Zhuge was

[QUOTE="mart_mart"]i think that the stupidest person was ma su for that dumb move utop the hill when zhuge liang sed not 2 soooo........ thats my answerHanzoMaster

let me do this very slow for you people that think Ma Su was dumb for what he did

Zhuge never told him not to he gave Ma Su free reign to do as pleased

at the Time the moutain thing was the best course of action since he could see inside the Wei Camp

Wang Peng was the only one that asked was it the right thing to do then Ma Su quated some guy about the abilty to change stragties or something like that in the middle of a battle the only thing that made it fell was Sima Yi and Zhang He had a better plan thats all that beat him there a better plan not him being stupid because he wasn't

he like alot others were in higher postions than Zhuge was

True.  He was actually testing Jiang Wei.  And,..he pasted.:D

[QUOTE="HanzoMaster"]

[QUOTE="mart_mart"]i think that the stupidest person was ma su for that dumb move utop the hill when zhuge liang sed not 2 soooo........ thats my answernoahcycle12

let me do this very slow for you people that think Ma Su was dumb for what he did

Zhuge never told him not to he gave Ma Su free reign to do as pleased

at the Time the moutain thing was the best course of action since he could see inside the Wei Camp

Wang Peng was the only one that asked was it the right thing to do then Ma Su quated some guy about the abilty to change stragties or something like that in the middle of a battle the only thing that made it fell was Sima Yi and Zhang He had a better plan thats all that beat him there a better plan not him being stupid because he wasn't

he like alot others were in higher postions than Zhuge was

True.  He was actually testing Jiang Wei.  And,..he pasted.:D

whatcha you talking about Jiang Wei wasn't even there

Huang Hao. Not saying Jiang Wei was a genius or anything (far from it, but then I don't think there were any true geniuses in the TK era, Zhuge, Sima and the Wu advisors included), but you do need an army to protect against, if not attack the enemy. Huang Hao had the ear of Liu Chan, and abused it. He pays the price in the end.blackjack4124

thats the priest guy who told Liu Chan what to do, Liu Chan is stupid for listening, and Jiang Wei got closer then anyone to restoring the Han before he was killed, Hanzo what was the name of that guy that got him killed, the guy from Wei who defected and they both died, basically ending the Tk era? repot back on that one

[QUOTE="taisho_rolyat"]

Based off what I've read from the book so far, I'd have to say Yuan Shao. Had he mobilized his forces when Cao Cao was campaigning to the west, he could've secured control of the North and reestablished the Han.

SirMothy

pride isn't stupidity, he just wanted to destroy Cao Cao, that makes him stupid?, liu chan listened to random religious guys when he was in a jam, i read that he would often pull Jiang wei from battle for no apparent reason.

His pride is not nearly as bad as it was in DW, but he was a proud man because he came from a very long family line with many notable ancestors, and his clan had always been close to the Han court. This, however, had little or nothing to do with his downfall.

Wow! There's actually a quite debate here..:shock:

Allow me to join everyone! I'm gonna say the most one is Liu Bei for executing Liu Feng. Because I think Liu Chan won't be his successor if Liu Feng still live and Shu kingdom won't be in crumble as well?

As for Zhuge, I think there's a lot personal opinion but, I don't think his plan on using Wei Yan is a good idea to me. After Wei Yan betrayed Han Xuan to defend Huang Zhong, I may think a good point that Zhuge suspect that he'll betray Shu as well.

Ma Chao is not stupid, he's indeed low-grade-inteligence officer but his action rushing toward Cao Cao is just an enraged respon. He can't even think why would a person like Liu Bei killed Ma Teng, it's obvious that he's controlled by emotion that time.

I agree with the statement; Zhao Yun should have drop the baby that cause misfortune to SHU..He's not stupid actually, he just did his duty.(But why can't I disagree, I'm wondering myself :( )

Agreed. Ma Su was a moron.

But seriously Jeff, you got awfully passionate there about such an old thread...