A run evaluation done on TUGOWU proper? I would say it has been awhile (and it would have been), but I got back to SBK not too long ago (only took 5 years). Relatively speaking, I just got done with one, eh? Lithius is stalled thanks to a button issue (it is circle, so it makes it tough to progress when you can't effectively mash to do mini-games requiring this like some doors). Many others have disappeared for one reason or another. Here you are appearing from the aether. Well, then. Let's see what we've got.
>posting issues
Used to have lots of those here after saving the union from the GS purge. The way they set us up makes us hard to find, breaks all the old links and from time to time makes it a pain to post (this aside from no longer being able to police ourselves *among other things*).
>active
Not currently. I made sure it was clear Nu-GoW wasn't really welcome as part of the in-group, though it is up for 'academic discussion' (shitting on it, learning from it, etc.). I would have done the same with gow3forums had I taken over. At best, quarantining them to their own section (Nu-GoW).
Most recent post by someone other than me that comes to mind would be Raeng (maybe Deeb or somebody dropping in here and there). Prior to that, just me (with the only other talk along the way being Franchise advocating for an idiot named Bick) since SBK's run concluded (we used to have Off-Topic here, but it got moved to GFAQs *I believe around the time I had to fight to pull this place from the shadow realm GS had banished it to which is to say there was no board to post on at all*).
>VH PAIN+ ER woes
Hotel could sympathize. However, I'm guessing you triumphed (without my *direct* aid) where he failed (even with it *as he wasn't a good soldier who could properly take orders and give reports*) only to run off after Zelda or something. I'll be sure to give him his reminder before too long.
>read by no one
NOTE: Though I wonder about character limitations here. Don't know what they are currently.
---GoWII VH PAIN+ evaluation---
Rhodes Temple:Antechamber
-No need to get fancy, right? Still wish we had been given some control over which OS kill we get (DI had the same problem).
Rhodes Temple:Hall
-Mind you, you can just skip them if you like. We honor those who bother.
Colossus 1
-Already having trouble with memory? Helps to do reports while things are fresh in mind. Collisions would be an option, but that is overkill (and unnecessary). He can do it to himself (amusing, but more work to set-up). Lots of fancy approaches, but I tend to favor baiting his long range attack, quick rolling to the background-right corner (under where he plucks ammo from) as it cannot land there (no timing involved) and getting free hits in. What you denote with just baiting his close range attack and hopping over to punish is fine, too.
Rhodes' Bathhouse
-...
Colossus 2
-I take it the old skeleton skipped notation of the Rhodians just prior to this. They're not perfect, but they get the job done. I'm sure you mean to say you're standing by the torch area that baits his single arm slam. No need to roll it. You can simply build towards t3 while moving away, then turning back to unload after his whiff. You forgot to note how you chose to handle his rage pound (a few options there). I see you opt not to take the fight back to the first spot the moment you finish the QTE (just need to get well clear of his side switch slam).
Rhodes Palace:Hallways
-Just going wild with grabs, but with no priority targets, camera abuse, etc.?
-Go up the elevator and slap the Colossus in the eye
Rhodes Palace:Western Ramparts
-...
Rhodes Palace:Eastern Ramparts
-This is to say you dropped down to take foes out. Just the archers or everyone? I imagine the latter. Presumably the projectile boys first (if not using camera abuse to keep them from interfering with the kids below).
Colossus 3
Stage 1 –Got in for CQC, made him whiff, hopped his follow-up, light punish and repeat, eh? Wasn't confident in your ability to pull off an evade i-frame into his attacks, then? I'm glad you didn't choose to do slow chip from by the sword (much less use the 'stage skip' *hand toss* too soon).
Stage 2 – ...
Stage 3 – While it is the smartest play for runs where you had powerful tools (S1 with upgraded moves and S2 with spells *regarding NUR+*), some argue the hand toss should be forced for S4 here (I overruled this as it is intended by the game *just honored if you go the extra mile*).
NOTE: Quick trivia. We've had people argue things like tricking using things we aren't allowed to deal damage with shouldn't be allowed (among other things), but I reminded them how PAIN+ (for this entry, for instance) is kind enough to NOT punish you for merely parrying (without a counter) once you get the GF (replacing the old parry). That tends to silence them (we were perhaps overly kind *also, how we ruled PAIN conditions might be a bit out of line with its philosophy what with the tagged on requirement to not use resources, but whatever*).
Stage 4 – ...
Inside the Colossus
-...
(Shaft 1) Break it and navigate ahead
-...
(Shaft 2) Break it and navigate ahead
-...
-(Shaft 3) Break it
-(Puzzle) ...
-(Shaft 4) Break it and escape
Zeus
-Get killed
Hades
-You would hate it less if you took advantage of two things. Primarily, just spam grabs. Secondarily, the gap crossing counts as a collision in this entry (and they are mighty in your situation). A tertiary note being that you can somewhat rush to the top, but that takes practice (for the final bit). NGR+ NUR+ here is probably more what you were experiencing. Wish I had those old notes from gow3forums. I'm sure I made them there (along with NBR+ NUR+ of each game). Now the only entry I have coverage for either run on is fucking GoW:A. Of all titles, right?
Pegasus 1
-Working those collisions (and perhaps half collisions from the forward dash). You remember to restart the moment the Dark Griffin Rider cutscene finishes (so you avoid the mandatory death)?
PATTERN: D, L, U
-Think it was safer to just OS spam in this case (our modifier and Power % is too lacking for heavies to carry the day).
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern
-Just lept up and plucked them from the sky, did you? Could save them for later, lure them to their boundary or whatever. Just kept air OS up or did you follow with ground OS to finish (or go for collisions)?
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Walls
-One by one using a grab (not noted if side or up *likely the former*)? No collisions? No blocking crossing? You can lure some of these fools to the start, but that's more for NGR+ NUR+ (even then, you can chip if you like).
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway A
-How did you set-up the alt.OH and from where? Just rush to their spawn point? Was it t1, air t1, T, t0, t3 or what? Did you fight from in-bounds or work their boundary? You can just slam EM on them as an alternative, but harpies first is what I suggest (even if just air OS). I forget if they allow ring-out by the zipline. Can only retain so much knowledge at a time, you see. That will no doubt be a factor going forward (unless I feel like looking at old coverage of myself *and others*, but that seems needless when you're not stuck *and it isn't that troubling a spot*).
Mount Etna:Mountainside A
-Break it with what? Your attacks? If so, which ones? I prefer to let the Archers do the dirty work for me. With the scaffolding down, no more respawns for the EM. 360 toss tends to be the right call (just good to have X toss in mind for things like the ER when tossing down wind *especially for things close to you*). Air OS for EMs? Did you need HP or something? I was more expecting (if they are alive) OH for ring-out along the rightside cliff.
Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus
-get Prometheus down
Mount Etna:Mountainside B
-Nothing fancy like luring them to the top or rushing by to fight them below (maybe tossing their allies ahead at them as they try to dismount).
-Make any use of the cliffs, collisions, etc.?
Mount Etna:Typhon's Cavern
-This is a fight you can come back to if you want a different camera angle (though I'm fine with how it is from the start). Breaking the wall early lets you work an obvious boundary (not just for taunts, but being outside attack range while funneling them) and have access to the save point (checkpoint exploiting while things are going well). You can try to use Gorgons against harpies with the petrification, but I think that's more trouble than it is worth here (FP Guide says Gorgons get stuck at the vertical height they were aiming at when they start firing, so if you get them aiming up as they 'stare' the rest will go over your head when attacking right up on them). Got a gorgon set-up against a wall for the forced OH lock, did you? Another option is sending them into each other, but that's harder to keep up (not to say it is difficult, just more effort). Using harpies as ammo suits me.
Speaking of the FP guide, I evaluated it when I started my new account (better grab a Snickers for this one): GMG says your guide is sub-par shit
-Fight as you went, worked from the start until depleted, skipped to the end before killing them or what?
-That to say you killed from range, first? I tend to work the exit barrier for cover and a boundary while taking out the punks nearby prior to fretting about the archers.
-...
Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus
-Shoot down Prometheus
-I trust you know how this version of toss functions (and how best to weaponize it), yes? Also, the issue it has against EMs (if they are charging *looping around you during this toss*). Why always air OS to take chunks off the EM? Why not forced OH lock as with the gorgons? Shame we cannot ring-out here (nor send them into the pyre).
-(rope) This or slaps (on or off the rope). Best to keep it simple (maybe reverse should the first boy get his grab in).
Mount Etna:Mountainside A
-RotT the door
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway B
-For collisions, ring-out or damage (all the above)?
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway A
-Could take this to a boundary or the wall, but it is needless.
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Wall
-You leave some foes behind? It doesn't spawn new enemies that I can recall.
Mount Etna:Hand Cavern
-Free Pegasus
Pegasus 2
-Still suggest OS for the harpies. One could argue we shouldn't have access to the forward rush (uses MP *like stamina*), but we went light there (I seem like the only one who notices this conflict). It wouldn't even be necessarily forced by the Rocs (Ravens) thanks to side dashing at the right time letting you skip (this time), but exceptions that require exploits to get around can't be forced for these runs.
-(Dark Rider) Sounds like you were treating him as if he has HP to deplete. Many make the mistake. Just get to the center, make enough room to forward dash (without getting caught on him) and repeat. This isn't about doing damage or even surviving as a timer runs out. Just distance traveled to a trigger ahead. Wish it wasn't just some gimmick, but it is. Would have been nice to have proper fights with Griffins (like the GoW:A realization of the Manticore), Rocs and this rider (to take and keep his weapon early on), but that ain't how it panned out. They did a lot with this one (and had tons to cut *as with riding the Phoenix towards the Spire for a final flight segment*).
PATTERN: L, D, R, U, L
Temple of Lahkesis:Cliff 2
-Wish ring-out were available to us here with the tools we've got. Invisible walls anger me. Still, OH infinite for collisions then tossing at "O" does the trick just fine, true.
Temple of Lahkesis:Hanging Garden
-No need to bother with the boundary or anything fancy.
Temple of Lahkesis:Cerberus Courtyard
-At least the "O" aren't required for this version of the foe (more than I can say for certain other appearances). Wish the loss of heads affected its ability to use some attacks though. Skipping this bit is doable even without movement techniques, but it is a little troublesome (not encouraged, but just a tidbit to note). Can work from behind the block for cheap chip, but that's more a NGR+ NUR+ thing.
-(Ceiling) Better than trying to lure them below for chip (ain't got the damage for that to be advisable).
-(Platform/Ledge/Chest Garden) Go after the archers first? Work cover so you can do dogs first?
Temple of Lahkesis:Siren Sacrifice
-No notation of positioning, eh? I'm sure it is similar to how I handled it (thus you know about camera abuse here *aside from just being sufficiently off the ground for the shriek to miss*).
Steeds of Time:Saddle 4:Exterior
NOTE: Horse order (behind; left to right) yellow, green, red (Saddle 3), blue (Saddle 4)
Theseus
S1:P1/S1:P2 – Just throwing out safe 's,t' and nothing else even if you get him to bounce? No need to go so far as to provoke his grab (and reverse for ~50DMG) here (means more in GKPAIN+). What of his P2 pillars? I always forget which side does what between left and right. One is cardinal directions and the other is radial (aside form the outer 'circle'). Knowing where they appear lets you get up on him during the whole of the attack for free hits. Shame we cannot do anything to stop him from going above, can't get up there with him (without rule breaking) and this run doesn't have tools for hitting him from below (SoD could HJ into air PS or double launch into air PS for half collisions off knockbacks). Dumping him over the cliff is lovely, but doesn't kill him as I recall.
S2 – I learned a lot when helping one chap on YT with this around a year ago. Had a chance to really analyze how his shots work and where pillars appear. As you say, you can work the 'safe spot' to ignore shots between SEM waves. Paced shots can keep him locked when you're ready to open fire with TB.
M1 – A good opener like you note (or s6) does wonders. For this run, the half collision is worth 25. This foe has 90HP. The full collision off air OS is worth 50. Can be worthwhile to set-up though risky, sure (don't want to get caught in the air). Depends on where you are standing. Does it need to be 7 waves? I forget the minimum requirement (get the most MP orbs from just doing the OS kill each time). For reference, this is a quick 'map' I'd made for his S2P1/P2 pillar patterns *better to link to rather than using just the image owed to the description though the format was ruined*: http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/BigVEE/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxNzk3Mjg5MjU=/?ref=1
NOTE: If it isn't obvious, the circles with the same color are of the same pattern. The circles with arrows are the starting points denoting the direction it travels. Studying this, you can see there are some points that will never have pillars hit, zones where you have the most time to react to any given pattern, etc. Helps with planning where to be (though it won't help with blasts coming your way *working the safe spot does that*). Since you're done with this fight, I don't feel much like I need to go over the exact number of shots he uses, which are homing or straight or any of that (though it is amusing he does an animation that tells SEMS to do the coordinated charge that EMs do of their own volition *during this time, he can't use other moves*).
Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Interior:CR Trial
-(CR trial) I feel like there was a place to stand that helped with this, but I forget where one is to turtle up before starting the business with 's,t' (or whatever) for the OH and such.
Steeds of Time:Bridle Puzzle
-Do it
Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Exterior
-Didn't lure them to either extreme corner (along the top) for funneling (s6, OH or whatever for collisions)? Just fought in the open? Know what really busts this bout? Using that Horse Key again. Open the door to the CR Trial and abuse it as a boundary while they bunch up for easy/safe set-ups for big collisions.
Temple of Lahkesis:Divine Pools
-Hades Nymphs. What sort of grab? Just snatched them up with ground OS or hopping into air OS? Or maybe some OH antics (alt.OH, even)? Presumably tossed at each other.
-navigate to the Amulet
-do the puzzle and press on (head through the window)
Temple of Lahkesis:Amulet Chamber
-Escape
Temple of Lahkesis:Courtyard
-Lacking AotF is a pity, but we have options. Leaping into air OS to take out Nymphs can help (with them gone, things are far simpler). Safely getting such things in might prove the trick. We have high ground/boundaries to exploit. Worth keeping in mind. More importantly, you can just break the statue head and work the boundary (if not skipping the fight). Makes things a lot easier, you would find. Bow tricking can't help with the Nymph webs and struggles with burrowing from Wraiths.
Destiny's Atrium
-Opted to just get rid of the boars before taking on the Tyrant, eh? That's sensible. It is more for GKPAIN+ that you would try to learn how to properly get them set-up for alt.OH use as ammo. Ranged t3 chip beyond this, was it? Working in close can be troublesome (more so without tricking). The grab comes out quick. You could work the very many boundaries (my video shows this) though your damage options aren't as good as mine. I forget how well the chest exploit I show off translates to other tools (you would be fighting on the other side of the chest once set-up, I believe *rather than leaping into air t1 over and over or whatever*). Worth noting that the toss of boars can happen from off-screen (at least it is a blockable).
Bog of the Forgotten
Barbarian King
S1 – From where? Its ass? The flank? The front? I'm sure I know, but I wish to be certain where you were and how you set it up (after the opening charge). It is more trouble, but slightly better dps is possible with building up to t0 (much less t3 *scoring double hits as that has meaning in GoWII where it can do this, it counts and t1 was nerfed from its GoW1 showing as is*) while moving ahead of BK as you've made him start up his hammer slap (and whiffed). Delicate dance to keep such antics up (much simpler to block and punish while getting in his way so he can't do other things).
S2 – Only NGR+ NUR+ gives reason to stray from this. Another option being to turtle up and reverse, but that takes a lot longer. Actually 'fighting' them can be done, but I forget what the good tactics for that are. Wish he could friendly fire on his boys. This bit is a gimmick anyway (he has infinite HP).
S3 – Got the skill to do that, do you? Even with air tricking, I can have trouble keeping it up. I remember one approach being to trick as you get to the rear and then going to town (repeat). Not having to range chip with the likes of t0 (in his original showing, Shin was using s1 slaps if you can believe it).
S4 – I've seen other approaches, but they need not apply.
-...
Bog of the Forgotten:Path to the Bog
-...
Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale
-Get Euryale's Key
-Presumably you mean to say OH infinite (not just the one and repeating the cycle). They have a boundary, but it is of little use (for this optional fight). Ring-out. I forget if OH can dunk them into the bog. I know it is an option, just can't remember what all allows it.
-This aside from screwing around by luring them to the door for petrification or even getting cute with knowledge of how their 'crumple' mechanic works (they have 50HP, but if anything *bounce, knockback, launch, etc.* causes this state, they go up/down to 20HP *with bad damage and lacking ways to work around it, this lets you get them near death faster and knowing it lets you avoid looking like a stooge as they keep getting HP back depending on how the fight is playing out*).
Work them taunts for openings, lads. You know the drill. I believe it was this very foe that first made me very aware of the hunt for taunt provocation as a means to make openings on VH in particular (after MistryMan brought up SoD t1 strats in the Spiked Elevator).
Ruins of the Forgotten
-OH infinite with the Berserker in range of your BL abuse, yes? Summon prevention is for the best.
Ruins of the Forgotten:Hallway
-Just some Sentries off the beaten path. Wish we could drop the hidden EXP chest on them for an insta-kill. Not enough death from above in GoW as is (GoW1 had its chance with the giant block on a crane *using it to murder the CDKs would be great*).
Ruins of the Forgotten:Pit
-Tossing 'nades from outside the pit or in it? At the wraiths are the pillar?
Ruins of the Forgotten:Bog Battle
-No ring-out, camera abuse, etc.? I suppose it isn't necessary.
Ruins of the Forgotten:Forgotten Chamber
-...
-Puzzle
River of the Forgotten
-Shame we can't (with this set-up) get foes to the starting shore (so they can't respawn). The far shore is achievable with tosses, but they are able to walk clean off it (if that weren't the case, that tech would go from meh to excellent).
Titan Minotaur 1
-Avoiding the rage pounds? You mean working its flank so they whiff while getting free hits, correct? Baiting spins is nice (or even punishing them with air attacks), but I'd rather rush to the sleep spot to reset the fight (just punishing wake-up rage pounds over and over). I fight dirty:
River of the Forgotten:Euryale's Guantlet
-Pull down the tree
-(Vine) ...
-(Gears) Use Amulet and cross.
-(Conveyor) I'm reminded how GoW:A failed to have us fight on one that was moving. The one it has is turned off before we fight on it. It left a lot of checkboxes unticked (while checking a bunch that should probably not have been).
Ruins of the Forgotten
-Do the puzzle, navigate ahead
Cave of the Forgotten
-Talk to the corpse
-Don't think the minotaurs can come to life. I forget. I know I like using OH to send the assassin into the crusher though. Shame that doesn't at least partially count towards breaking the gear (maybe having the Minotaur able to break-out, then using it as well would allow the option to spare the talking corpse. At least until bringing him as tribute for skipping the 'boss' ahead (feed it to him, steal Jason's GF while the beast eats, reverse the fireball and leave). A lot of work going into something most would never see, I know. Goes against their ethos.
-Proceed with the corpse
Cave of the Forgotten:Coliseum
Cerberus Bastard
Stage 1 – Charge baiting strats aren't so much for this tool though box rolling to provoke taunts would be alright. Doing as you say is probably best. However, punishment of its fireball use can be more severe (building towards t3 while circling it from point blank to land hits and stay safe *this is the sort of tech used in a few others places in the GoW series like with Hades when up against the wall and doing the blade geyser barrage*).
Stage 2 - Real shame he can't be made to so much as drop the GF before this by hitting him with the fire ball (hard to pull the lever and get him in place as is). More so that it doesn't even do damage (having it do ~50DMG per instance would be the minimum acceptable amount for the effort put in relative to its HP *I'd be more for it being a full 'stage skip' like the Colossus 3 hand toss, so using it in S1 takes you to S2 and landing it in S2 takes to "O" every time*). How nice for us that the paw stomp can't even guard break for pressure and the flamethrower isn't unblockable (would make it a threat). Poor bastard doesn't even have a grab (could have recycled one from Breeders of GoW1).
NOTE: This foe wasn't meant to be a boss, originally. Even had 'Mole Spawn' it might have birthed like a Breeder, but they got cut entirely (opted out of using them to spice up this fight in S2 *even if they couldn't grow-up like Breeder Seeds*)
Cave of the Forgotten
-I recall being able to launch them up and over towards the cave mouth (boundary either way). The boss room is itself a boundary. Tricking and false OS help with handling these foes (having GF's 'return' allowed would make this a breeze, but you know that too well).
Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale
-Destroy the Gorgon Door
Euryale's Temple:Antechamber
-There's that, but you could also shatter those you can prior to their waking up, then working the boundary (entrance) to be extra cheap.
Euryale's Temple:Underground Chamber
-Shame about the lack of ring-out here. We can shatter a few foes, at least. OH infinite for collisions before 360 toss (probably X toss in close) is sensible. Use the ammo wisely. Were you somehow left alone with a Hades Minotaur, I wonder what your plan would be. If you had learned how to trick and/or false OS provoke its quick overhead string, you would have the tools needed to very easily handle such a foe without having to hope it lets you just chip from range (or fight in close only to run away during the unblockable or whatever).
Euryale's Temple:Elevator Puzzle
-...
Euryale's Temple:Lowland Vista
-Forced OH lock with cued T, is it? You can just dump him down the shaft, but that technically doesn't kill him, granted (should be a kill floor for him down there). Shame we lack the tools to ring him out by the save point in this run.
Euryale's Temple:Temple Hazards
-Navigate through
NOTE: Shame there was no version of this platforming bit with foes that could be led into hazards. I'm reminded how even Euryale here has a mini-temple, but the Furies of GoW:A? Aegeon doesn't count (nor does the Statue of Apollo). Their Citadel should have served this purpose, but they were so focused on the MP they lacked resources to realize it fully (among other problems).
Euryale's Chamber
Euryale
Stage 1 – How sporting of you not to abuse the sweet spot (checking ahead, not even for S3) set-up.
Stage 2 – Don't think the hits when she gets off the pillar count (not sure). I know baiting her blasts, going in for a punish and repeating is a thing.
Stage 3 – Tricking the slams is far harder than just abusing the sweet spot or even working ranged chip. I feel like there was another option, but I can no longer recall it. Might not have been for this run (outside it, there are certainly a few that come to mind).
Euryale's Chamber:EH Trial
-Petrify and crush 5 Sentries
Euryale's Temple:Pillar Puzzle
-(Center Pillar Battle) Sentry? Ah, the Hades Juggernaut. Using Fiends on it for collisions speeds things along. Definitely better to have the Fiends dead (if not working the camera), but without AotF, your dps is lacking for Juggs (becomes a slog).
Euryale's Temple:Stone Crusher
-Rare are the times this isn't the answer in life.
Euryale's Temple:Cavern
Titan Minotaur 2
-Bothering with alt.OH is fine (air OS would be overreaching *should be GKPAIN+ where that would end the fight in a hurry*). Like before, sleep spot abuse is suggested (can even get on the rope before the room, get near the top, leap off at grouped up harpies into air OS infinite and rush the wake-up rage pound over and over), but that doesn't jive well with using the harpies as ammo.
Catacombs of the Fallen
-Could ring-out at the start or use collisions along the way. All the same to me.
Destiny's Atrium
-Break the door
Island of Creation:Walkway
-Captains. You could just ring them out at the cliffs.
Courtyard of Atropos
-Shin's handling? Ruh-roh. Hopefully he wasn't faffing about with low-tier strats (letting his skill prop him up). Not good to learn from such things (much less emulate them in the hopes of finding easy success). Let's see.
Ah, that's fine. I like to work boundaries for relatively safe collisions (even dump them over the rightside *ladder* as a psuedo-kill), but the entrance to the Lower Halls is a-okay for grouping up for collisions.
NOTE: Should I take it you're mostly using video reference of some old run from Shin?
Halls of Atropos (lower)
-(Priests/Minotaur Grunts) Yes, best to kill the priests first (stopping summons) unless you badly want more HP from the Minotaur Grunts (not really worth it here, I'd say). You can work a boundary when taking on foes by the crank. Nice of them to let the on-hit grab of MGs not just **** us up for failing to block (to earn the mini-game *which should be super damaging to them given the visible harm we're doing*).
-I forget if ring-out is an option here. I know we can use harpies against them (or exploit a boundary down the steps *or the entrance*).
-(2 Satyrs) I forget where and when we advise T over t1 for set-ups in this entry. This might be one of them. Provoking taunts helps create openings (though blocking and punishing can work, too). Positioning for collision is important for speeding this up. The OS damage is a bit too weak to interest me (or pure focus on even air OS *or the OH*) unlike with the Olympus Satyrs of GoWIII. Wish the floor spike was an enviro-hazard (air OS them on it for an insta-kill of at least one if not getting a knockback just right so it lands on the thing). 'Champions' are a pretty lacking design for the 'Satyr' name (even before handhelds made their 'faun' alternative *then GoW:A makes them the main mooks*).
Hall of Atropos (upper)
-(Exterior) ...
-(Interior) No talk of working boundaries to make this even easier?
-navigate
-(Root 1) No ring-out?
-(Root 2) Yeah, the last spot was troubling (think I went with air OS to slam them out of the sky, then ground OS rather than trying for air OS infinite *I'd have to check notes*).
-(Root 3) ...
Bathhouse of Atropos
Perseus
Stage 1 – Just taking turns, eh? Can't use rage tanking. Of course, you could just spot his charge (big splash), rush around 3 roll's distance away and begin cooking up t3 to land where he'll stop (increasing the damage per opening). Use of 's,t' punishes is more for when you see other openings. Can be hard to get in on the sling without return (jumping forward air block can help).
Stage 2 – Block and punish does fine, true. You can time the tricking of his flash, but that's hard. Easier would be switching between EH and TB rapidly (gent's way). Air tricking is just holding the draw animation as you fall (constant i-frames until on-landing). Increases the window, but you still need to time when you jump, get decent height and properly hold the pose while falling through the attack. Can't really punish him rushing for flash points, but you can rush to where you see him going and land a free hit as he stops to flash (won't dodge that).
NOTE: S3 is when he begins getting blown around when you strike his shield. For that bit, it is a good idea to just get by a way during 'flash'. It deals no damage and is easily escape well before he can even hit (can block it anyway) while warping him to your location (not the other way around). Thus, you just have him warp near a wall, get clear of his attack and slap him to push him into the wall for the bonus damage (~10) and free shots on his body. His rush from S3 to S4 (unlike the other times he runs like this) won't dodge attacks, so you can land some along the way (not a huge help without magic, mind you). S4 being when he is just pressed against the back wall and spamming flash or slings. Thinking on it, I don't know that I've ever tried letting flash hit while I'm away from the wall (to pull him from it for free hits as he *hypothetically* runs back).
Stage 3/4 – No need to trick his slings (or block early)?
Courtyard of Atropos
-Do the puzzle and press on.
Lowlands:Exterior Hallway
-...
Lowlands:SoD Trial
-...
Lowlands:Bridge
-Get across
Lowlands:Crossing
-Cross it
Lowlands:Caves
-(Fight 1) Spawn order counts for something depending on what you want from the fight (just to get rid of sirens before they get back-up or to keep one around as ammo *as with GKPAIN+*). Should have pulled a feather from GoW1's cap while you could (you can still air OS infinite the sirens). Spawn order can help with not needing to fret about getting both near death before killing them as I recall. 2x Hades Minotaurs even with knowledge of the techniques from before can indeed be a bother, true. Helps to get just one out of the way before trying such things (punishing their charge recovery is okay and even their unblockable start-up, but you have to beware their ability to counter on a whim).
-(Fight 2) Against the barrier, yes. And what of the second? You were chipping away at him with t3, too? No fishing for openings (like its punishable enders) to T to OH at the Juggs? Difficult, but worth getting good at, I'd say (speeds things up a lot). Think you can taunt provoke the Satyr while having the Juggs on you if you just want to slowly/lazily chip them with 's,t' (best to focus damage and thin their numbers versus trying to spread it around, I'd say).
Great Chasm
Icarus
-...
Atlas:Face
-...
Atlas Innards:Spine Chamber
-Only one 'Champ' at a time. If he isn't dead, but is alone, you can do as you say (or even spam ground OS *or air OS*). If you pull the block out, you can work that boundary to make things easier.
Atlas Innards:Battle Arena
Titan Minotaur 3
Stage 1 – Not comfortable in close on this one (mostly about learning the tell for pound and then how to safely get around it without having to 'get out' as I'd done in my video)? It is dubious, but I don't care for them wasting my time (S3 doesn't change anything), so I use my old trick for ending S1 right away.
Stage 2 – You an R1 guy (drop) or X guy (hop to sides or even up)? Shame AI abuse here just causes doubled HP for S3.
Stage 3 – ...
Atlas Innards:Puzzle Room
-Navigate ahead
Atlas Innards:Hades Nymph Hive Chamber
-I suppose we should be glad hives don't infinitely spawn in GoW:A. It was nice of them to have a block to leap from under one here (as a shortcut *able to avoid bothering with all this*).
Atlas Innards:Climbing Section
-...
Atlas Innards:Puzzle Room
-Use the Thermal Draft to exit
Atlas:Hanging Platforms
-(Atlas Lift) It takes a bit of getting used to. That the Harpy pool is inexhaustible until the Caps (Hades Legionnaires) are dead is a little shitty (could have just been a large pool of say 21 in total *so 3 pools of 7*). Worse is the invisible wall preventing the easy ring-out option (if they wanted it to work that way, at least put a damned barrier or something up to let us know there is fuckery afoot).
You can't easily get breathing room enough (for long) to do a forced OH lock (take what you can get). Can be easier to just go for air OS. The bomber antics of Hades Harpies is super annoying (especially their fake-out dives). Just have to get used evading clear, getting in for air OS (collisions if not set-up) into some means to get them ready for alt.OH goodness (regular OH being a bad idea). Infinite ammo strongly encourages use of the pests as weapons on the major grunts. Might even be good to outright kill a harpy or so for a brief moment with less of them around. As before, you can pluck one from the sky that is near 'caps' (slam the birb on its head).
Atlas' Arm:Wall A
-...
Atlas' Arm:Rock Puzzle
-Do it
Atlas' Arm:Wall B
-Navigate it
Atlas' Arm:Hand
-Break the Chain, resist Atlas' grip
-(AQ trial) I should remind that Guardians job to t0 set-up for OH more than t1.
The Great Chasm
-Navigate ahead
Palace of the Fates:Palace Courtyard A
-(Entrance) Good to stop the summons and leave the Fiend for later (else you get multiple pools and respawns you didn't have to deal with). I see no talk of ring-out. Didn't think to take BLs to the bridge where that is an option? My old video shows this well (though you lack my choice tool *ain't too hard to adjust accordingly*):
Palace of the Fates:Spiked Floor Chamber
-(Spike Room) That to say you did this throughout? I prefer FLIGHT (harder without the right tools when the time comes to spring into action), but FIGHT works too:
-Get the Crank
Palace of the Fates:Palace Courtyard B
-Puzzle
East Auditorium:Hallway A
-Navigate
East Auditorium:Hallway B
-...
-Get the block
NOTE: A lot could have been done differently with this bit. Early plan was fighting Hercules here, but that got pushed into the next game. Stripping save point access from the 'waves' is rough (perhaps overly so). Having it in the block room would have been reasonable (punish the stupid for not making use of the option). Not having any chests inside the W3 (altar) room is a bit mean. I had plans for how to make this room have a bonus fight, but I forget the details (think I go on about this in one of Mikey's comments sections as I was evaluating him *hard to recall who I say what to*). I still say it would have been great if there was an AoTF jewel (not that it helps with PAIN+) on the Athena statue to break off, carry and drop where we want to use (read: abuse) the amulet. Alternatively, have the block replaced with a statue (like in the West Auditorium) that can block the gate open for us, but we can break off the portion that has the jewel or some such antics that enables access (same end result). I don't advocate hugging the tranny for HP transfer (for rage) like our family, but I do think it should have been an option to pick him up and move him elsewhere. Preferably not near enemy spawn points (at all) with him in a corner well to the side of the action. Also, we should be able to ring-out foes if knocked through the opening 'windows'. Don't like Priests speeding up summons when off-screen or being active off-screen (much less warping in to use 'pillar').
Auditorium of Lahkesis
-(Wave 1) Sounds like normal handling. No abuse (be it v1 or v2).
-(Wave 2) Ah, so you went with v2 here. Good. While v1 had its time (chipping through the door), v2 is just superior (we already have a boundary where W3 takes place). Gives plenty of room to move, full access to our moves and (for SoD boys) even ring-out (just wish the invisible walls weren't stupid high *otherwise this would be a thing to use on the Pandoran Satyrs*). I see you've done your research here (even know of my checkpoint exploit). It's dirty, but this is a fucked up fight. Imagine the horror of ToA if W1 was actually W3 (or worse, there were even more waves before it without checkpoints or chests).
-(Wave 3) I think Tid and Mikey were the runners (might be more) that insisting on doing a long 'series' for this fight (lots of winning showings to analyze for how the fight works in all that chaos). Hard to give clear advice on this (versus tidbits to keep in mind). I'm sure you've done your homework, so I'll spare myself the effort (unless something need be said). That the tactic would be Priests first is hardly surprising (can't leave them to their own devices).
Jump exploit being another finding I'd made to help with getting in (don't want that opening summon). It was originally intended to get the tranny stuck on the high ground nearby (ideally not soft locking us had it worked), but he walks clean off. Camera abuse to control where foes go, eh? Sticking to the left and facing right can be troubling (especially without rage in the event trajectory lines up with tranny for a collision we cannot redirect *just have to avoid letting that happen or even really losing track of hounds near death as you may get the OS kill rather than OS damage, which isn't ideal*). I presume you're facing left despite along that side of the room. Double tap with priest from hound punts. GKPAIN+ is easier here (despite the possibility of one-shotting tranny) thanks to OP collisions and the glorious canine companions being plentiful.
NOTE: Having a proper plan for controlling things during the double spawn (Priests) is where things get rough. Again, I'd recommend (for PAIN+) the gents I'd denoted. Even Findlestick has a good showing or so on that front. This bit is easier to show than tell (though telling while showing doesn't hurt).
-Crush his Head, get the key, open the door and head through Hallway C and Hallway A to Palace Courtyard B then use the key on the Ram Door.
NOTE: Shame it is impossible to skip all this given how triggers work. Speedrunners would have loved it, but my attempt at finding such a thing at least gave us a checkpoint to use.
West Auditorium:Spiked Wall Hallway
-A lot easier than the GoW:A version with flame jets (a bit too many foes for the time given and too greatly limits viable tactics for not getting burned to death as they close up on you *aside from pushblock sending you flying into the hazard, which is a bother*).
West Auditorium:Garden of the Gods
-Hear yourself, break wall, navigate ledge leading ahead
West Auditorium:Sacrificial Chamber
-That's certainly one way. There was a way or two for setting up the widow (without needing "O" state keeping her dizzy). I think one was launch to OH towards top-left corner, pull lever, then either launch or false OS as she tries to shriek. I'd have to refer to notes. The gent has a video for an old version, but my improved take never got a runner to record it that I can recall.
West Auditorium:Blood Tunnel Chamber
-Navigate it.
West Auditorium:Iced Phoenix Puzzle
-Do the puzzle and proceed.
West Auditorium:Nymph Nest Chamber
-...
West Auditorium:Pantheon of Atropos
-I never quite fully 'got' how to keep total Breeder spawns down to just 3 (rather than 4). People had ideas (bunch of Seeds out during a kill), but it wasn't consistent (from what I recall). Easier to understand how to use kill order to only have one fresh Breeder with the 2x FJ spawn. With how alt.OH can glitch, you need to toss them away (and look away) from all foes before attempting else you might get OS instead, which is annoying. False OS antics on Breeders can be helpful, but aren't really worth a ton. Their shrinkage glitch (tied to what should be their taunt) sucks ass.
Probably better to kill the seeds until down to one fresh pup for use (collisions ground OS *maybe into air OS* as it is more reliable than the GoW1 version that constantly tossed them to their feet without doing a thing *already noted issue with OH attempts becoming OS and shrinkage, which can easily shit on your collision goals*). If feeling ballsy, you can try to keep the Breeder around, let it birth and attempt using the seed for collisions on FJs to speed along their death, but that's more for GKPAIN+. I'd sooner recommend just using the little shits to bash their parent to death, then settle for chipping Juggs (be it t0/t3 or baiting one into 1v1 to turtle up and punish with 's,t' *taking turns* or whatever).
West Auditorium:Fate Statue Puzzle
-Do it
Auditorium of Atropos
-Save the Translator then crush him
-Get Warrior Skull, open door
West Auditorium:Thermal Lift Puzzle
-Do it
Palace of the Fates:Courtyard B
-Low on HP? That is a good reason to bother. Otherwise I'd suggest provoking charg- *reads ahead* Ah, good. You figured that out for yourself:
The Underground:Bone Crusher
-(Spiked Ceiling Elevator) It just works:
The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway A
-(Rope) ...
The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway B
-Ring-out is limited to just the break in the wall, sadly. Camera abuse and false OS helps with a control a bit (and tricking for Flash). Can still use the gorgon on the others, but the other way around (as you note) is preferable. Just have to set-up toss spacing well when using Sentries (easy with archers).
The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway C
-And at the wall across the way (if you want to remove the spikes *not that it matters*).
The Underground:Lava Chamber B
-Navigate ahead
Phoenix Chamber:Platform A
-Navigate ahead.
Phoenix Chamber:Platform B
-Dumped into lava like some T2 re-enactment, I see. The other way is to do a MK reference from "The Pit" by sending them up and over onto the spikes (still up). Or collide them with each other. Lots of options, really. I prefer lava for skellies and impalement for cap.
Phoenix Chamber:Boreas Puzzle
-Easy to get them both with BH (MotK breaks the walls while the spikes are up and they spawn into death). Harder here. Just need to time it right and rush away (or get away and keep them out with attacks). Just getting one (as you note) is enough, really. Then you can easily send the other up and over (or even bring it to the molten rock pool from before). All this enviro-hazard talk sure does please me. Would be a shame if they were to have tons of them only for messing with us while foes are mostly immune (GoW:A's ToA reference). Real fucking shame that would be.
Phoenix Chamber:Hallway
-Navigate ahead
Phoenix Chamber:Flame Wall Chamber
-When you get the starting set-up right, things become easier. Then you take the fight to the boundary and make this affair a joke. Though these are flame foes, it is a little annoying they don't even get blown around by the flame wave.
Phoenix Chamber:Platform B
-Didn't exploit the savepoint to make a checkpoint? Be it s6 or OH, it is good to use skellies as ammo (more so in GKPAIN+). Though maybe getting them down to just one before starting this process (for jacking up the big boys *don't be too close unless you want a possible counter to hit you*). Not great to be left with 2x Hades Minotaurs (preferably none, but, again, that's more of a GKPAIN+ priority).
-Pull the lever
Phoenix Chamber:Circular Stairwell
-...
Phoenix Chamber:Exit Chamber
-Pull the lever
Palace of the Fates:Palace Courtyard B
-Use Boreas
Palace of the Fates:Interior A
-Chain
Palace of the Fates:Interior B
-Blow Horn, navigate to door, open it
Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace A:Elevator Puzzle
-...
Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace B
-Use the levers
Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace B:Palace Window
Last Spartan
-Could have used just a tiny bit more to him (or less HP if he was going to be so simple).
Palace of the Fates:Palace Courtyard B
Kraken
NOTE: Definitely plenty of glitches, yes. Invisible tentacle in S2 is perhaps my 'favorite' (thankfully, it is very rare).
Stage 1 – Found the sweet spot for melee, did you? More of a semi-sweet spot here, but if working medium range in S2, it is entirely so. On the first attempt, you can grab the body and bring it closer. Otherwise, lead his attacks away before trying to move the body, I'd say (else you get hit or blow far away with the corpse *bit of a piss off*). Since we can't use magic, can't use the other sweet spot and blast him with wind to skip using the body at any point (making S1 and S2 pretty easy *no need to go after the tentacle sore or glide when going for the head sore*).
When needing to glide, even tricking can only do so much if you don't bait him to attack such that you're given a safe opening to move in (favoring the side he's not attacking on with your approach into air light spam or whatever). Have to be quick. Even then, your dps can be found lacking, making you do the previous part to continue this chip. The good news? He doesn't regenerate head sore HP for being too slow. Bad news? Pretty sure he gets ALL of his tentacle sore HP back (rather than say 20% of it *speeding this up*). Worse still? If you botch the knob part (after doing enough on the head sore), the HP on his face resets (effectively resetting you to the start of that 'stage'). That was a bad call on their part.
Again, reset to maybe 20% of the full HP. I forget his actual HP total, but I think it was ~100 on the head sore each time (probably a little less given what we can do with TB shots and have change to spare). Failure leading to having to redo a tentacle (say 50HP) at 10HP, move the corpse, glide and deal a mere 20DMG to the head to try again (for that Stage) is much more reasonable.
NOTE: Skorpius was an ass in this same manner (and then some).
Knob 1 – ...
Stage 2 – Same as S1, slightly easier to control the flying since one tentacle is gone.
Knob 2 – It is indeed a bit troublesome to mount (though it shouldn't be that troubling for you). Sucks that you can't get super cheeky with the timer (have it reset upon mounting the tentacle, so you need only land enough hits shy of breaking the knob, get on, get to it, slap it off and grab *lesser runs enjoy this freedom*).
Stage 3 – Foreground center, yes. If you don't know how many hits it can take, alternating is for the best.
-Cross the Bridge
Palace of the Fates:Phoenix Platform
-Tame the beast and ride
NOTE: Wish it had been the realization of the Upper Pandora's Guardian (harpy boss) of GoW1. Beat it into submission before using the thing for a quick lift.
Spire:Temple of the Fates:
-Do the puzzle
Temple of the Fates:Throne of Lahkesis
Lahkesis
NOTE: GKPAIN+ Kraken isn't so bad. Just breaking Knob 2 (it is impossible with our dps, so you have to use RotT). Lahkesis has just tons of HP, so that's a little annoying (not particularly hard). Not having a way to lock her in the air state sort of sucks, too. Fights lacking enviro-hazards or collisions to exploit can be a real bother with our pitiful damage. Your trespass will be forgiven (even if it had hit her, I'd take pity *no DQ*). I've seen plenty of guys mess up here and there. You wouldn't be the first getting some slack cut.
S1:P1 – I don't remember fighting her in this manner. CQC was tough. Think it was more to the tune of baiting her to attack with her melee string as I dialed up t3 to slap her with.
S1:P2 – I feel like a good portion of the dive animation is invincible.
Stage 2 – Such a pity none of our air options can hit her without knocking her out of air state. Sub-weapons ruin her anus.
Athens:Sword Bridge
Atropos
-Helps to know the spacing for making the tosses count (that's about all there is to know other than the AotF doing jack, spells from range being worthless, stupid invisible walls preventing some ring-out/collision, etc.).
Temple of the Fates:Throne of Lahkesis
Sisters of Fate
S1:P1 – For lack of some tools, we can't keep Lahkesis in air state meaningfully. What a pity. Still, not so bad as is.
Mirror 1 – Lahkesis does good by us here.
S1:P2 – ...
Mirror 2 – ...
Stage 2 – Amusingly, her pillars ignore i-frames (a rare case). Just being on one of the grapples makes you safe against them if you're too lazy to learn where to stand otherwise.
-Crush the Mirror
Inner Sanctum:Hallway A
-Navigate ahead
Inner Sanctum:Circular Chamber
-Navigate ahead
Inner Sanctum:Hallway B
-Break through the wall
Inner Sanctum:Endurance Run
Wave 1 –Hear that Hotel? Easy wave, easy life. *laughs in vet* I like to go right in on the FJs myself (get air OS or air OH set-up for infinite on their position then X toss). Tons of ammo. Making good use of it will limit the amount of chip you have to do. But you know all this (didn't have to resort to working from behind barriers with t0/t3).
Wave 2 - ...
Wave 3 – Not a walk in the park with GF taken away, eh? Even NBR+ NUR+ had a taste of this. Tougher to use gorgons on the sirens like this. I had some silly approach with false OS to provoke blasts, then lead the homing attacks at a siren (that I would then attempt to shatter). Trying to bait out Stare to use like this was dangerous. Still want sirens gone first. With just queens, it was all about getting them away from each other enough to either force OH lock in a corner (or against the barrier for a moment) or go for collision set-up. Getting them petrified wasn't in the cards. Prior to the point of just fretting about these sneks, one might also consider barrier use to isolate a siren (though you can catch them among others for air OS infinite *tougher to use as ammo against the others*). Chipping through the barrier? Only if there is nothing else to be done (circumstantial).
NOTE: GKPAIN+ is often easier then the regular PAIN+ for those in the know, but Zeus? With BH? S1? Dohohoho. Now there's a good time. Still, it's nothing at all compared to ToA W1 (which itself might still fall shy of the Clones *hard to say without beating them*). Pity someone like Taz can't be recruited to properly test it out. He's had a small taste and no more (of that hated entry).
Wave 4 - ...
Wave 5 –Trying to get too greedy can get you jacked up, true. Barrier abuse tends to be the safest call. If you'r more comfortable, you can try for ground OS on an isolated Satyr, but it is better to go for something like air OS. I only advise OH uphill thanks to downhill use sometimes freezing them in the air (soft locking you *restart the fight*). Shame as that would be a big help. Learning Satyrs well enough to punish with s6 where you can for half collisions helps. These are foes I have people practice 1v1 in the Arena, then 2v1, learn the other foe (Hades Minotaur) in the same way, then combine them and figure out how to engage them that way (knowing the ER will be a very different arena). Some just refuse to use that resource (fucking wish I had it for GoW:A like many other things that are missing *a damned guide with the stats, values, etc. I have to test for would have been appreciated...don't even need tactics from them since they would all be worthless anyway*). I never recommend trying to fight all of them in one zone, but I do think there are times you can fight with more than one in there with you (even a mix). Just troubling with the Hades Minotaurs. If 1v1 with the bigg'n, you will probably want to have your false OS strats at the ready (get some decent damage in before fleeing). Hell, false OS control can help even with others around from time to time (almost no value to it in GoW:A).
Wave 6 - ...
Wave 7 – No plan? If being extra safe, your plan would be to NOT be stuck in the same 'zone' as any Brutes other than the open one with chests. Working the long hall can help make the Sentry toss more viable (got to have range if not a straight shot with a wall right behind the target *keeping the agent touching it during flight*). Barrier abuse is still a factor (just don't advise t0/t3 stuff here). You have SO many things you can toss. While Cursed Legionnaires are not 'general' types, you can still easily enough get them into air OS (riskier) or OH infinities to use as Brutes close in (annihilating them) before using the "O" for more damage dealing. But really, you may as well use up the Sentries first (unlikely to bottom out) as they are plentiful and 'general' (don't need to be dizzy or wandering). What 'plan' did you come up with?
>CoO/GoS NUR+
Why not PAIN+? Or is this a warm-up before circling back? I believe you noted (recently) some intent to suffer with me (GoW:A). That right? The many things I've learned will perhaps prove of some small use (though you've got a ton of runs after NUR+ and PAIN+ to sift through for things learned that would have helped with those). Had I learned all this back then, I could have taught people interested in recording things, too. What a pity.
Clotho
Loom Chamber:Floor 1
-You can insta-down her arm (means more for GKPAIN+) using a launcher when it is resting (between attacks). I think even bounced work on downed arm (to reset recovery clock). Can't really avoid getting grabbed by the other hand (forced damage) if I remember right.
Loom Chamber:Floor 2
-More insta-downing is suggested. I wouldn't hold it against you to skip this section.
Loom Chamber:Floor 3
-Weakening her from the wall before dropping down is something I've done before. Too bad spreading the damage between arms wasn't as effective as I'd hoped.
Loom Chamber:Floor 3:Hallway
-Navigate
Loom Chamber:Floor 4
-Navigate, pull lever and get to threads
Loom Chamber:Floor 3:Strands of Time
-Operate correct strands, get to Mirror and leap through
Summit of Sacrifice
Zeus
Stage 1 – Flaunting it, were you? Did you DR with some purpose (regarding widows and the boss)?
Stage 2 – How good of you to let him fight at all (rather than ranged DR lock).
Stage 3 – ...
Stage 4 – ...
Stage 5 – ...
-Do the CS mini-game
The Loom Chamber
-Puzzle/mirror
NOTE: I can't say for sure when I'll get to CoO, GoS and GoWIII. No later than next Thursday. CoO in particular should be a quick one to go over (lot of filler, simple fights, etc.).
