Why ECW Is Garbage Since One Night Stand 1....

Paul Heyman leaving ECW should come to no surprise to anyone especially if you have been watching the shows on the Sci-Fi Channel. Personally, I think the shows were going to be garbage after the they started talking about bringing back since the second One Night Stand. The main reason for this is to the simple fact that being that Vince bought the name and the library, he had to have his stamp of approval on the product at the cost of compromising the very spirit of ECW which was that of the anti-establishment showcasing hardcore,lucha-libre,and shoot fighting styles: all of which the WWE does not endorse.

First and foremost, storylines have to have Vince McMahon's approval. The same Vince McMahon who has been approving the garbage storylines that has made the WWE look stagnant, tired, and irrelevant since Wrestlemania 20. This meant all the edgy and intelligent content that should have made ECW a welcome change from WWE progamming was watered down into more mindless drivel geared toward today's MTV generation. Another aspect is that even ECW matches fall under WWE rules which is that you can expect to see more count-outs, disqualification victories, and tired ref-bumps on a regular basis. Vince McMahon also hates the ECW originals which is why Francine got fired (he didn't like her "look"), Rob Van Dam lose the title, Sandman feuding with Matt Striker(?), and Tommy Dreamer losing to Daivari(?). Probably the final disgrace for Heyman had to be the fact that after having all the energy and time crafted in building up Rob Van Dam and Kurt Angle as a contender, Bobby Lashley ends up winning the title after being kicked off of Smackdown due to a management problem. I don't have anything against Lashley winning the title (a proud moment for us Blacks who watch wrestling) but it seemed more like Vince was screwing over Van Dam (Heyman's original ECW leader) than taking the title off the Big Show.

Simply put, anything other than a financial influence by Vince McMahon and ECW could have been a success. With Heyman gone, the ratings can finally drop like the tank it has put off since the first show. Hopefully, Heyman could go to TNA where they at least use some of his ideas that garner their fanbase and get rid of Vince Russo as the lead booker and give people a reason to be excited about wrestling again.

ECW never was revived in the first place.

Entertaining Championship Wrestling was it's replacement.

the reason it wasn't revived...it was because of One Night Stand.

the people at both One Night Stands were basicly the epitomy of the old ECW fans...well kind of, but you get what i mean.

the fans they have now...the WWE fan that thinks they are a fan f "ECW" because "OMFG, I LOVE IT WHEN THEY USE CHAIRS AND RVD IS AWESOME1!!111!1!ELEVEN!!!1!!! I'VE NEVER SEEN A MATCH FROM THE OLD ECW BUT SINCE IT'S OWNED BY WWE NOW AND BEING REVIVED, I CAN ACT LIKE A STUPID OLD SCHOOL ECW SMARK AND THINK HIGHLY OF MYSELF EVEN THO I'LL BE ONE OF THE D BAGS AT RAW NEXT WEEK CHEERING CENA.!!!!11!?! >!$@^%#$%@ELEVENTY!!!!"

...they are the reason ECW was dead on arrival.

(that and poor matches besides the main events before angle left and horrible booking)

Rob Van Dam lose the title,

WESLY_SNYPES

Rob Van Damn lost the title because he was an unprofessional a***** who allowed himself to fall into a situation where he garnered negative press (and not the good kind of negative press Vince Mcmahon likes) while he was the Champion, got suspended, and screwed up all the booking plans which led to a makeshift Big Show title run. That's it. Facts are facts. Vince Mcmahon deserves no blame whatsoever for being hesitant to put the belt back on him, since Van Dam obviously wasn't mature enough to handle it. He was given his shot, and he blew it. End of story.

[QUOTE="WESLY_SNYPES"]

Rob Van Dam lose the title,

_Muta

Rob Van Damn lost the title because he was an unprofessional a***** who allowed himself to fall into a situation where he garnered negative press (and not the good kind of negative press Vince Mcmahon likes) while he was the Champion, got suspended, and screwed up all the booking plans which led to a makeshift Big Show title run. That's it. Facts are facts. Vince Mcmahon deserves no blame whatsoever for being hesitant to put the belt back on him, since Van Dam obviously wasn't mature enough to handle it. He was given his shot, and he blew it. End of story.

it's not that he was caugth with them...it's that Sabu forgot his glaucoma prescription :P

And exactly how many unprofessional people or people with substance problems have Vince McMahon given air time and title reigns to?!? Randy Orton, Edge, Chris Masters, Jeff Hardy, JBL,Test, and those are the people who are on the roster right now who made their names in the WWE. Look how long it took for Booker T. for example, to even gain a title run and he never had a management issue but made his name in WCW. If you didn't come from WWE Vince will do the very least to promote you headliner or otherwise and if you screw up and you're not WWE created you might as well be shown the door.WESLY_SNYPES

Okay, now you're just clutching at straws. You're missing the point. Almost none of those men were pulled over for driving under the influence of an illegal substance WHILE THEY WERE THE CHAMPION OF THE COMPANY. This is far more unprofessional and a slap in the face to the promotion than stealing some guy's girlfriend. When you're the champion, that is ultimate sign of trust from the promotion. The promotion should be able to depend on you.

Randy Orton was suspended after being caught with a joint in an arena just before they were going to give him the belt. Because of this, they're clearly holding off on giving him the belt now, but keeping him in the limelight by pairing him with Edge.

Chris Masters was taken off the road after failing a drug test. He hasn't been pushed since and will likely never be pushed again now that his physique is gone. Jeff Hardy was eventually released for failing a drug test  in the latter part of 2002 and early 2003.

Since when has Test been highly unprofessional?

The only one i'll bend on is JBL, because of the whole Munich/CNBC incident. That was unprofessional. Other than that, he kept his nose clean.

Vince McMahon has too many damn wrestlers on his roster so he decided to bring back ECW so certain "superstars" would get more tv time along with a bigger "push" and up and coming "superstars" would be able to make thir presence known and get a chance to make na impression,but while it has done that...he chose a federation ot ressurect that did not wrestle like WWE and did not feel like WWE.

so when he put his "new vision" of ECW in play...no one liked it,no one will ever like it and it will probably die down if he doesnt do something to change it(chances are it will die),because the fans dont wanna see WWE style programs and wrestlers take over an ECW ring and ruin what was once special to all of us ECW fans.

Heyman deserves an applause and a punch to the face for leaving WWE and ECW behind.An apllause for finally seeing his services were going into nothing and a punch for ever selling ECW to a McMahon.
Some say he did it for the wrestlers so they would have somewhere to gobut who know...that wouldnt be a bad reason,but look how many ECW wrestlers...not superstars,but wrestlers are reall happy.

Sabu isnt,Dreamer isnt and RVD definately isnt and the whole ECW(WWE additions not included) are not happy.

Striker,Burke,Terkay,Daivari,Lashley...none of them care about the ECW tradition,they just have a place to be where they have more attention on them.

Even though they were similar,WWE would probably been better off remaking WCW...at least no one would have really been that pissed at how his "vision" of that would have played out. 

Somethings are just meant to stay gone...unless Paul Heyman buys the rights back somehow and goes back to the old days...but that seems unlikely...for now!

eyman deserves an applause and a punch to the face for leaving WWE and ECW behind.An apllause for finally seeing his services were going into nothing and a punch for ever selling ECW to a McMahon.
RamboneForever

Maybe you should learn your history, Heyman didn't "sell" ECW to McMahon, McMahon bought it in Bankruptcy court.

[QUOTE="WESLY_SNYPES"]And exactly how many unprofessional people or people with substance problems have Vince McMahon given air time and title reigns to?!? Randy Orton, Edge, Chris Masters, Jeff Hardy, JBL,Test, and those are the people who are on the roster right now who made their names in the WWE. Look how long it took for Booker T. for example, to even gain a title run and he never had a management issue but made his name in WCW. If you didn't come from WWE Vince will do the very least to promote you headliner or otherwise and if you screw up and you're not WWE created you might as well be shown the door._Muta

Okay, now you're just clutching at straws. You're missing the point. Almost none of those men were pulled over for driving under the influence of an illegal substance WHILE THEY WERE THE CHAMPION OF THE COMPANY. This is far more unprofessional and a slap in the face to the promotion than stealing some guy's girlfriend. When you're the champion, that is ultimate sign of trust from the promotion. The promotion should be able to depend on you.

Randy Orton was suspended after being caught with a joint in an arena just before they were going to give him the belt. Because of this, they're clearly holding off on giving him the belt now, but keeping him in the limelight by pairing him with Edge.

Chris Masters was taken off the road after failing a drug test. He hasn't been pushed since and will likely never be pushed again now that his physique is gone. Jeff Hardy was eventually released for failing a drug test  in the latter part of 2002 and early 2003.

Since when has Test been highly unprofessional?

The only one i'll bend on is JBL, because of the whole Munich/CNBC incident. That was unprofessional. Other than that, he kept his nose clean.

i'd like to add another point.

most cases like the times when Orton was suspended...the company was the one that found out first and dealt with it quickly before mainstream press got a hold of it. besides the IWC and some casual fans...no one knew Orton was suspended before because of a joint, trashing a hotel room, pissing off the hotel staff during WM 22, etc.

RVD getting caught on the road...that got a lot of flack for the WWE from the mainstream press like CNN, MSNBC, newspapers, etc. because not only did it show that the WWE can't keep track of their superstars when it comes to illegal things...but also that it was a huge damper to their Wellness program that Vinnie Mac is priding himself on (and he should to because it's been doing a great job this past year) and showed that even tho the WWE was "cracking down" or whatever on offenses and potential offenses and just generally being concerned with the well  being and safety of their performers, that as good as the Wellness program is...WWE's main guy at the time (i say main guy cuz RVD was at the top of the biggest feud and holding 2/3 heavyweight belts) could infringe this program and get caught.

RVD really made a fool of Vince McMahon.

oh and the JBL thing...so what if he did some nazi stuff...it may be distasteful but jeez Germany and CNBC, grow up

When Test was released he did nothing but trash the WWE and more specifically, Triple H.

And? It's not like he's been pushed for the title. Test is just a prop. You forget that RVD has criticized both the WWE and, very backhandedly, HHH in the past, too. Both pretty much have the same status, so what's your point? If RVD was released for his comments, then i'd see your point.

If that was an ECW star or a WCW star in all likelyhood he would have never been on WWE programming again.

Really? Then what about Steve Austin? Or Ric Flair? Both have done plenty of controversial things throughout their WWE tenure, and yet they've still been kept around. Or how about Eddie Guerrero, who was fired for his drug problems and then brought back?

Ever occur to you that some of these so called "stars" aren't brought back or pushed because they're simply not worthy investments? Hell, honestly, as much as i admire Booker's promos, let's face it, the guy doesn't offer much else. RVD is useless on the mic, mediocre and pretty sloppy in the ring, and nowhere near as over as he was back in 2001/2002. Sandman is self explanatory. The fans simply weren't feeling Steiner, Goldberg, or Nash after the initial rush of excitement.

The audience has also changed to where alot of the "ECW" fans of today didn't even follow the promotion back in the 90's.

Orton not only did all those things but he was also hazing a WWE Diva for no reason but he appointed himself some sort of backstage sheriff.

Orton's an **** but that kind of stuff is just the nature of the business. Ribbing and hazing happen all the time. If you're highly sensitive or can't take a joke, then you don't belong in the Pro-Wrestling business.

 Having Bobby Lashley get the title sent a message that anyone who didn't get their start in ECW can be held down, but if you happen to have gotten your popularity in WWE, well, you have more leniency.

It was Paul Heyman's idea to bring Bobby Lashley over and push him for the title.

How come CM Punk wasn't slated to hold the title? They have him billed as the "straight arrow" which would have worked well in conjuction with the wellness policy, he has popularity, but he was not a WWE star first.

The guy debuted 5 months ago. He hasn't fully developed his character yet, and giving him the belt now would be instant gratification. It's, dare i say, smart business. People will tune in to see him get the belt. It'll mean more once he actually does get the belt, hence Punk will be more over.

Wesley_Snypes...

no matter what any guy can do (short of murder, rape, theft, larsony, etc. that is considered a SERIOUS crime), hate him or love him, Vince McMahon is a very forgiving guy.

no matter what you can say about the politics, his business ethics, etc...when it comes down to it, Vince McMahon is a very loyal and sincere person. most of the times when someone gets fired and rehired is because they need time off or help and they won't accept it.

take Eddie Guerrero, he was in a horrible state with all the pills and booze, and his short time off from the WWE and the constant weight of stress, travel, and the burden of having to go out there everynight and give it your all and having to wait maybe a week to rest just for one day or see your family...that short time really helped him collect himself and get his act together and get his life how he wants it and how it should be.

Vince thought the same for Jeff Hardy. Jeff failed a drug test and when advised to go to rehab or get some other help, he refused and Vince had to give him some tough love. 4 years later...Jeff Hardy is better than he has ever been and the spark that he once lost during his stint in TNA has returned.

Test did say some harsh words, but wouldn't you do the same thing if you were fired from the only job you knew you could do and what else was there for him to do? tour the indies with Lex Luger and go on a rampage of crazy roided promo binges! I DON'T KNOW!

when a lot of those guys get released, i'm sure there's an instant feeling of betrayal. i'm sure Billy Gunn was thinking "what did i do? i've been loyal to them for almost 10 years and this is how they treat me? i thought Paul was my friend, didn't he stick up for me?"

and also, in a recent interview, Road Dogg said that the words he originally said about WWE, Vince, HHH, etc. duing the infamous shoot with Billy Gunn has basicly subsided and he has no malice towards them. it doesn't mean he doesn't like them.

Wesley_Snypes, if you can't give someone a second chance after seeing that they are a different person and that what they say and mean is sincere...then you really need grow up.

and who cares if Germany gets pissed, it's not like WE did anything horrible to them (besides try to stop their ludicrous campaign). i know that it was only 60 years ago and it's still fresh in some people's minds and it might be a touchy subject...but jeez, in 100 years, no ones care. just because some people get offended doesn't mean it's not ok to make a joke of it.

Wesley_Snypes...

no matter what any guy can do (short of murder, rape, theft, larsony, etc. that is considered a SERIOUS crime), hate him or love him, Vince McMahon is a very forgiving guy.

no matter what you can say about the politics, his business ethics, etc...when it comes down to it, Vince McMahon is a very loyal and sincere person. most of the times when someone gets fired and rehired is because they need time off or help and they won't accept it.

take Eddie Guerrero, he was in a horrible state with all the pills and booze, and his short time off from the WWE and the constant weight of stress, travel, and the burden of having to go out there everynight and give it your all and having to wait maybe a week to rest just for one day or see your family...that short time really helped him collect himself and get his act together and get his life how he wants it and how it should be.

Vince thought the same for Jeff Hardy. Jeff failed a drug test and when advised to go to rehab or get some other help, he refused and Vince had to give him some tough love. 4 years later...Jeff Hardy is better than he has ever been and the spark that he once lost during his stint in TNA has returned.

Test did say some harsh words, but wouldn't you do the same thing if you were fired from the only job you knew you could do and what else was there for him to do? tour the indies with Lex Luger and go on a rampage of crazy roided promo binges! I DON'T KNOW!

when a lot of those guys get released, i'm sure there's an instant feeling of betrayal. i'm sure Billy Gunn was thinking "what did i do? i've been loyal to them for almost 10 years and this is how they treat me? i thought Paul was my friend, didn't he stick up for me?"

and also, in a recent interview, Road Dogg said that the words he originally said about WWE, Vince, HHH, etc. duing the infamous shoot with Billy Gunn has basicly subsided and he has no malice towards them. it doesn't mean he doesn't like them.

Wesley_Snypes, if you can't give someone a second chance after seeing that they are a different person and that what they say and mean is sincere...then you really need grow up.

and who cares if Germany gets pissed, it's not like WE did anything horrible to them (besides try to stop their ludicrous campaign). i know that it was only 60 years ago and it's still fresh in some people's minds and it might be a touchy subject...but jeez, in 100 years, no ones care. just because some people get offended doesn't mean it's not ok to make a joke of it.

sephy37

Wait, Test and RVD may have the same status now but who do you think will get out of the doghouse first? Steve Austin and Ric Flair did many controversial things in their WWE tenure but Steve Austin achieved superstardom during his tenure in the WWE and Ric Flair achieved equal fame in NWA/WCW and WWE.

WESLY_SNYPES

what Austin and Flair did on camera was all work. when Austin abused Debra and no showed cuz he didn't want to job to Brock, the WWE did do the right thing and told him not to show up anymore. but Vince did forgive him later when he came back as GM. and even then, you can tell Austin was on a short lease.

what did Flair ever do that was controversial? make fun on hardcore wrestlers in his book and piss of Foley? that's nothing to flip a nut over.

 Eddie Guerrero is the exception and not the rule. As for Booker T., if he wasn't saddled down with this King Booker gimmick (which I do find funny and entertaining) and went back to the "Harlem Heat Booker T." then you would probably see something worht watching.

WESLY_SNYPES

whether Booker T is "king booker" or the harlem heat tag team sensation...BOOKA T. his workrate would be the same. he'd probably still be cheating in every match and the only difference is more "cryme tyme" still promos where he acts gangster and more spinaroonies and axe kicks.

What Orton was accused of doing was bad enough for him to get scheduled counseling and he almost got a harrassment accusation against him. Ribbing and hazing go on, yes, but there obviously was a difference when Orton did it that was serious enough for him to be suspended. And let's not forget that he too was caught with the mary jane and was still awarded high profile matches.

WESLY_SNYPES

what he did in the back? you know that whole taking a sh** in one of the divas bag wasn't true. and hazing and joking on the newer guys is normal. they've been doing that since wrestling started. haven't you seen the UMAGA video where he's chopping Ken Doane's chest and everyone including Cena is watching and having fun? it's just an initiation.

and Orton was never suspended for hazing anyone. that's like saying that HHH should be fined for having a bigger locker room than everyone else.

Paul Heyman might have had the idea to bring in Lashley but I think he would have rather have RVD get the title then again I'm not Paul Heyman.

WESLY_SNYPES

Paul Heyman had a whole different script written for December 2 Dismember but Vince did a lot of last minute changes to it which resulted in the suck fest that we all witnessed.

and sure Paul probably wanted RVD to win the title, but come on, he can't use RVD as a crutch everytime they need a champ.

CM Punk has been wrestling longer than 5 months I would see if he had just wrestled for that time.

WESLY_SNYPES

he meant wrestled in ECW for 5 months. he's not built up enough to be champ. yes he's very popular, but Punk hasn't had any good matches to prove he's a worthy champ. once he has some matches with RVD, Big Show, Sabu, Sandman, or some guys from Raw or SD then he'd be more established and a more worthy champ. Punk still has to pay his dues, you didn't see Edge get the title till a year ago, and he was more over back when he left the brood or when he was with E&C than Punk is.

And for the person who said I need to grow up I turn 25 next month, I work in inpatient psychiatry where we give people second chances all the time whether it deals with depression,drugs,alcohol,PTSD,and uncontrollable mental imbalances. People in Germany don't like it when people, especially foreigners, take it upon themselves to stir up old wounds. Would you tell a Jewish person that the Holocaust didn't exist? Or black people that lynchings was ONLY half a century ago? Or maybe you would like to tell the Palestinians that they need to stop whining about a small strip of land they've been fighting for for generations? But apparently such things are ok to make jokes about because "only some people might get offended". To you I say grow up.

WESLY_SNYPES

that was me, there's only like 2 people responding to ur comments so get it right. and yeah, i'm sure you are. i'm black and i don't get offended when people talk about slavery. i believe it was a horrible time in my people's history, but it's not like anyone that did that is around today and they've had time to atone for that and now more than ever, most people here are equal (unless ur gay...or mexican...or a pedophile).

it's stupid to get mad over things that in no way affect you today.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that Vince McMahon might be a good businessman but when it comes to disciplining his workers he is very inconsistent especially when it comes to people who did not gain popularity under the WWE banner...WESLY_SNYPES

ok marijuana isn't that serious of an offense. driving while under the influence is. but not just being caught with one backstage. if it was heroine or cocaine then i'd agree with you, but Vince McMahon is more concerned these days with keeping his workers healthy and out of trouble.

"Paul Heyman had a whole different script written for December 2 Dismember but Vince did a lot of last minute changes to it which resulted in the suck fest that we all witnessed.

and sure Paul probably wanted RVD to win the title, but come on, he can't use RVD as a crutch everytime they need a champ."

That's exactly why this ECW is ECW in name only. It's what I've been trying to get at the whole time: Vince McMahon is the real reason why this ECW is a failure. If it had been done they way it should have been originally, it would have been not only a good alternative to what is on now but possibly good competition on the same level as TNA.

"Paul Heyman had a whole different script written for December 2 Dismember but Vince did a lot of last minute changes to it which resulted in the suck fest that we all witnessed.

and sure Paul probably wanted RVD to win the title, but come on, he can't use RVD as a crutch everytime they need a champ."

That's exactly why this ECW is ECW in name only. It's what I've been trying to get at the whole time: Vince McMahon is the real reason why this ECW is a failure. If it had been done they way it should have been originally, it would have been not only a good alternative to what is on now but possibly good competition on the same level as TNA.

WESLY_SNYPES

oh, i forgot what the point of this topic was about actually :P.

but yeah, ECW is just a mantle piece for Vince