Difficulty levels are sports games' biggest problem...

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nbtrap1212

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#1 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts

I remember talking to my brother once while playing a "realistic" first-person shooter and saying how difficulty levels were a really stupid idea for a game that's supposed to be a simulation, and while playing sports games recently - especially since my purchase of NHL 08 - the idea is more evident than ever.

I'm sick of sports games relying on dumbing down the AI of the user and giving the CPU controlled team super-human ability when increasing difficulty levels.

I thought playing on pro was too easy, so I cranked the difficulty up a little bit, and what do you know? Every time I go to poke check someone, I get called for tripping, every time I try to hook someone a little bit, I haul him down and get called for hooking, the opponent is nearly guaranteed to intercept passes in even remote vicinity and steal the puck every time I get near them, and worst of all, my own teammates act like retards and stand around in the defensive zone while the opponent controls the puck for five minutes straight before my goalie finally manages to hold the damn puck (assuming they don't score). Also - and this is by far the most annoying - all of a sudden, each player on the opposing team has super acceleration and puck control and can be literally standing still and flatten me with a body check, when I can be flying, attempt to check someone, and not even have them lose control of the puck.

Rainbox Six: Vegas was the first game I've seen to fix this problem: the game had a beginner difficulty level, and a difficulty appropriately called "realistic". Why can't sports games follow this? Obviously, the game can't be completely realistic when the players behave differently on different difficulty levels. I'm really thinking about returning this game; pro is too damn easy, and all-pro is frustrating as hell.

I'll be back later. Tell me what you think.

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II-FBIsniper-II

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#2 II-FBIsniper-II
Member since 2005 • 18067 Posts

You didn't think RSV on realistic was frustrating?

(not bashing the game, beat it on realistic, just wondering)

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nbtrap1212

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#3 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts
Bump.
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nht12101990

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#4 nht12101990
Member since 2005 • 1615 Posts
I agree. I recently returned my Xbox 360 to BestBuy after getting the red lights and lucky me Xbox 360's come with a copy of Top Spin 2 now. I put it in played a quick Exhibition match and became extremely frustrated as the A.I. controlled player got perfect 100+ miles per hour serves every single time.
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lazzordude

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#5 lazzordude
Member since 2003 • 6685 Posts
no offence,but if your good at sports games then youll agree that outside of human opponents the games are way too easy.just practice more and eventually youll get better at it.
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cwagmire

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#6 cwagmire
Member since 2003 • 3398 Posts
I've noticed this in football games - a guy is wide open, pass it to him, safety catches up and picks off the pass. WTF
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steveslugga

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#7 steveslugga
Member since 2007 • 1344 Posts
how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?
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lazzordude

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#8 lazzordude
Member since 2003 • 6685 Posts
I've noticed this in football games - a guy is wide open, pass it to him, safety catches up and picks off the pass. WTFcwagmire
you probably underthrew him and/or have zero stick.
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Soul_to_Squeeze

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#9 Soul_to_Squeeze
Member since 2007 • 560 Posts
i see what ur saying, but i dont really have a problem w/ different difficulties bc it allows for more people to have fun w/ a game. not everyone has the same skill. the only problem i have in sports games, is when u start blowing a team out, then all of a sudden like everything starts goin ur way. ull fumble almost every time, and ull miss wide open catches. thats the thing that gets me the most
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MJ0LNIR_SPARTAN

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#10 MJ0LNIR_SPARTAN
Member since 2007 • 409 Posts

I guess it just comes down to how much time you spend playing the game. For the NBA 2K series "Hall of Fame" difficulty isn't an issue since i've been playing them since NBA 2K back on dreamcast, so i'm set for the cpu. However, Madden NFL 08 on the other hand is a completely different story. On "All Madden" difficulty the cpu just flat out grills you, atleast in my situation. They sack you 5 or 6 times a game. You throw to an open guy and next thing you know 3 or 4 people are guarding him and waiting for the pick. I agree Rainbow Six: Vegas does a very good job with this problem. Realistic is realistic. One two shots and you are dead and same goes for them. Most people have a hard time with those games because they do not realize Rainbow Six games are tactical shooters and not run & gun. Another game or should I say series that demonstrates those unhuman qualities is CoD on veteran difficulty and HALO on legendary to some extent.

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Soul_to_Squeeze

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#11 Soul_to_Squeeze
Member since 2007 • 560 Posts

I guess it just comes down to how much time you spend playing the game. For the NBA 2K series "Hall of Fame" difficulty isn't an issue since i've been playing them since NBA 2K back on dreamcast, so i'm set for the cpu. However, Madden NFL 08 on the other hand is a completely different story. On "All Madden" difficulty the cpu just flat out grills you, atleast in my situation. They sack you 5 or 6 times a game. You throw to an open guy and next thing you know 3 or 4 people are guarding him and waiting for the pick. I agree Rainbow Six: Vegas does a very good job with this problem. Realistic is realistic. One two shots and you are dead and same goes for them. Most people have a hard time with those games because they do not realize Rainbow Six games are tactical shooters and not run & gun. Another game or should I say series that demonstrates those unhuman qualities is CoD on veteran difficulty and HALO on legendary to some extent.

MJ0LNIR_SPARTAN

yeah i agree, but i think halo 2 was a little more over the top than halo 1. in halo 2 on legendarysometimes i would stick an elite w/ a plasma grenade, and that still didnt kill them.

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TKandPBC

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#12 TKandPBC
Member since 2005 • 1431 Posts
no offence,but if your good at sports games then youll agree that outside of human opponents the games are way too easy.just practice more and eventually youll get better at it.lazzordude
yeah but that's not it. A sim is supposed to be realistic, as the TC indicates, without sacrificing realism for difficulty. However, problems come when I remember NHL 07. I mastered the skill stick, getting 2 perfect seasons on the superstar level. Even though the goalies were realistically adapted to game form, other aspects of the game were not exploitable, but easily beatable. The problem was that the user was given too much room to grow. With a new mechanic like the skill stick, it may take a while to grow, but after a couple dozen matches at superstar, a perfect season isn't even the half of it. What needs to happen is, that we need a realistic level (R6V), where players don't only look, and feel like they do in real life, but play as they do in real life. On realistic, players must attempt to play to their advantages, and if their in a slump, it should be apparent. You must look for opportunities AND your opponent must look for wholes in your game as well (NHL 08 almost has this down).
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nbtrap1212

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#13 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts

how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?steveslugga

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

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steveslugga

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#14 steveslugga
Member since 2007 • 1344 Posts

[QUOTE="steveslugga"]how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?nbtrap1212

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

if u play a game long enough eventually u will get good, i cant stand these people that want everything spoon fead to them,if u cant play on a hard setting stick to easy til u get better,games are meant to be challenging
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lazzordude

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#15 lazzordude
Member since 2003 • 6685 Posts

[QUOTE="steveslugga"]how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?nbtrap1212

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

umm no,there is a fine line between noobs and people that play sport games competitively.there needs to be different difficulties for different players so the game remains fun.
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nbtrap1212

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#16 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts
[QUOTE="nbtrap1212"]

[QUOTE="steveslugga"]how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?steveslugga

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

if u play a game long enough eventually u will get good, i cant stand these people that want everything spoon fead to them,if u cant play on a hard setting stick to easy til u get better,games are meant to be challenging

Simulations are supposed to be realistic.

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steveslugga

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#17 steveslugga
Member since 2007 • 1344 Posts
[QUOTE="steveslugga"][QUOTE="nbtrap1212"]

[QUOTE="steveslugga"]how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?nbtrap1212

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

if u play a game long enough eventually u will get good, i cant stand these people that want everything spoon fead to them,if u cant play on a hard setting stick to easy til u get better,games are meant to be challenging

Simulations are supposed to be realistic.

what is ur definition of "realistic"? IMO sports games are more and more realistic every year eg.nhl08
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nbtrap1212

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#18 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts
[QUOTE="nbtrap1212"][QUOTE="steveslugga"][QUOTE="nbtrap1212"]

[QUOTE="steveslugga"]how bout u guys quit whining and learn how to play?steveslugga

Do you disagree that different difficulties implies unrealism?

if u play a game long enough eventually u will get good, i cant stand these people that want everything spoon fead to them,if u cant play on a hard setting stick to easy til u get better,games are meant to be challenging

Simulations are supposed to be realistic.

whatisurdefinitionof"realistic"?IMOsportsgamesaremoreandmorerealisticeveryyeareg.nhl08

Realistic as in like real life i.e. one team's players aren't superior just because they were too easy the last time you played them.

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steveslugga

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#19 steveslugga
Member since 2007 • 1344 Posts
thisispissingmeoff,allofmywordsarentspacingproperly
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steveslugga

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#20 steveslugga
Member since 2007 • 1344 Posts
anybody,else,have,this,problem? lol
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nbtrap1212

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#21 nbtrap1212
Member since 2005 • 1525 Posts

thisispissingmeoff,allofmywordsarentspacingproperlysteveslugga

lol

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Galzakian

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#22 Galzakian
Member since 2004 • 5160 Posts

The only sport game I play heavily is Pro Evo 6, and the difficulty levels are pretty even inmy opinion. Started out on normal, did the learning curve, ramped it up one level, adjusted to difficulty, ramped it up again after a while, got used it to again, etc. Nothing to it.

I remember playing a few Madden games and finding the top level of difficulty a bit too much for me, but then again, they don't play nfl in australia, so maybe i just sucked so i stayed on normal :P

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Nasukashi

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#23 Nasukashi
Member since 2005 • 134 Posts
well for starters i think there should be difficulty levels on cuz not every1 can play on the same level

and there are differten difficulty levels for ppl to find there levels, the less extreme levels sometimes are more realistic then the most extreme ones, the extreme ones are suppose to be god like to bring the ultimate challenge to the player, if u can beat the game when the AI is almost perfect then ur really getting the hang of it huh... if u think its to perfect and hard, choose a lower level =/

i always found it too hard on some sports games, or any games, those god like difficulty levels, but once u get the hang of it u actually beat the CPU easily on any level, u just gotta practice i guess, i find it much harder to play against normal ppl then the hardest difficulty level on the game O.o